Relationships and Romance

Chrono7

Completely Average High School Student
Sounds tough. One thing you could try would be don't reply for a while. Not in the treat em' mean sense, but just to give her time and you both a bit of perspective. If she was the last one to get back to you, just leave it for a bit. You can get back to her in due course and you can focus on you, whilst you decide when is best to reply. Like you said, it can sometimes be unfair to put an emotional burden on another, so it may give her a bit of breathing space and allow her in time to open up on any feelings she may have. If you're always the one to immediately reply to her, then she has the advantage. I'm not saying that she's doing it on purpose, but she may not realise that it is demanding on you. Just play it cool! Good luck!
 

burtkenobi

Brigade Leader
I'll just say it again, I think it's a mistake to presume to know the workings of anybody else's mind or circumstances, especially anyone you don't actually know personally. If the situation was clear to anyone it would be Vash, who actually knows her, not me or you.
I do agree, actually, with @ayase - we can't know the workings of anybody's mind.

My post was about whether there was any awareness of the affect on Vash, and that understanding people's minds are different works both ways - she might be doing whatever it is for her own reasons, but she can at least imagine or empathise with what that behaviour is doing to him. I don't think it's very fair.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Does anyone know how Lemon's doing? Haven't seen him on here for a while.
No idea, unfortunately. ☹
Does he use the Discord now? I've never been on that.
Hi guys, sorry if I caused any worry. It wasn't exactly my intent to disappear for the better part of a year, but a lot of things have happened since the last time I really checked in here. Since around October last year, something happened that caused my mental health to spiral into an incredibly bad place. It's quite personal so I won't go into it, but the effects of what happened are something I still feel today, albeit I'm in a bit of a better state now than I was in the immediate fallout. I ended up closing myself off from both close friends and family, only leaving the house for work, spending almost whole days in bed and practically starving myself. Needless to say, it was bad times. I've since started taking anti-depressents, which do help, even if they haven't completely fixed my mental state.

Since I was last here, I also moved out of my parents house and in with a friend, which has also been a big adjustment for me. I don't have space for a desktop PC anymore because my house ended up being a lot smaller than my parents place, so I am generally spending a lot less time online just in general. This is also not to mention the whole corona virus thing, which saw me starting work at 2am for a time, which I found to be incredibly draining.

The last 4 months or so I've also tried to get back into the dating scene, to no avail. I've had a couple of promising starts but both ended up fizzling out into nothing. This compounded with the person I share a house with starting a long term relationship around the time we moved in together has had a bit of a negative effect on my mental health too. Either she comes to our house, in which case I have to bear witness to their ideal relationship, or he's away at her house, making me feel incredibly alone.

I'm sorry to go on a lot, but I thought that you should know where I'm at since you were kind enough to miss me. I'm sorry if I'm not the same kind of person I was when I left, a lot has happened, and even though I've been struggling with depression for a long time, the end of last year was the straw that broke the camel's back, and I'm at a point where I'm unsure I can ever be back to feeling how I was.

I won't be around as much as I was, but I will try to pop in as and when I can. If anyone ever wants to reach out, DM me on here or Discord, just not my Twitter, I had to come off that for reasons linked to what I spoke about above.

I hope everyone is doing well, it'd be nice to catch up with some of you.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
I'm sorry to go on a lot, but I thought that you should know where I'm at since you were kind enough to miss me. I'm sorry if I'm not the same kind of person I was when I left, a lot has happened, and even though I've been struggling with depression for a long time, the end of last year was the straw that broke the camel's back, and I'm at a point where I'm unsure I can ever be back to feeling how I was.
Welcome back, Lemon. I won't pretend to know what you have been going through but on this point, I just want to say that there's no need to fear the future you not being the same person. We are all the products of our past selves and our environment, and even when we seem to have our stuff together we're still adapting, growing and changing on a daily basis. The old you is still there, and the new you is going to be even better. It's really cool of you to speak frankly about everything you're feeling and I hope you'll keep doing that, to the extent that you're comfortable, whenever you need to unload. Reach out as much as you need to, to the people you trust. Even if it feels tough through the self-doubt of depression, being open encourages other people to share too. It's a powerful thing to do, and I know already that the person who wrote that post is on the right track.

R
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Welcome back, Lemon. I won't pretend to know what you have been going through but on this point, I just want to say that there's no need to fear the future you not being the same person. We are all the products of our past selves and our environment, and even when we seem to have our stuff together we're still adapting, growing and changing on a daily basis. The old you is still there, and the new you is going to be even better. It's really cool of you to speak frankly about everything you're feeling and I hope you'll keep doing that, to the extent that you're comfortable, whenever you need to unload. Reach out as much as you need to, to the people you trust. Even if it feels tough through the self-doubt of depression, being open encourages other people to share too. It's a powerful thing to do, and I know already that the person who wrote that post is on the right track.

R
Thank you Rui, your words really do mean a lot. I can only hope I can become a better and happier person than ever before.
 
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IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
In my last post here, I mentioned how I didn't want to go into the details of what caused my leave of absence from the internet and ultimately what caused my mental health to spiral, but recently, my depression has been worsening a lot, and I've been feeling worse now than I have in months this past week, and without anyone to talk to or anywhere else to turn, I was hoping I could use a post here to vent my feelings a little and to get some things off my chest. This is probably going to be a lengthy ramble, and I can't even promise it'll make sense to anyone reading it but me, but I just really need a release here. My head feels like it's suffocating and I just can't shed the sadness and intrusive thoughts going through my mind. I'm hoping that this helps a little.

This all started about a year and a half ago now, in January of 2019. Someone who had followed me on Twitter a while ago messaged me out of the blue to wish me a happy new year. I was a little caught off guard, I hadn't really talked to her all that much during the short time we had followed each other for, but never one to shy away from making a new friend, we started chatting. What started as just general chit chat soon blossomed into lengthy and fairly deep conversations, and we would talk to each other over DM every single day. It was probably a little quick, but after a few weeks, I began to fall in love with her. I'm a very socially awkward person, and I feel I'm really awful at talking to people, but with her, it was so different. We never struggled to find something to talk about, and we got along so well, it was chemistry like I've honestly never felt before. She was just so much fun to talk to, so quirky and interesting, yet so kind and sweet. Add in a mutual interest of anime, manga and video games, and she was just the absolute perfect match for me, not to mention she was absolutely beautiful.

Even before everything that happened in 2019 happened, I'm not going to pretend that I was a totally mentally healthy person. My total social awkwardness has left me single for my entire life up to this point, so I pined for love incredibly hard, which tends to make me a little on the obsessive side. When I start to get feelings towards someone, that person suddenly becomes my whole world, as if nothing else matters to me. I appreciate that is not at all a mentally sound or healthy mindset to have, yet it's something I have unwittingly managed to adopt at some point in my life, and it was this that started to drive her away. She was an incredibly busy person, yet if she went a little while without talking to me, I'd message her and make sure she was okay, and I hadn't upset her, putting pressure on her to give me attention even if she didn't have time or wasn't in the mood to talk. I'd send her incredibly lengthy, sometimes essay length messages, even though she told me to stop because she found the prospect of replying to my messages to be overwhelming and time consuming. Despite her very politely telling me these things, I struggled to stop and change. Even after telling her I would stop, I'd always slide back into old habits and revert back to my old ways. I'm not sure if it was because of this or in spite of it that when I ended up confessing my feelings towards her, she turned me down.

It's at this point when I should have just taken no for an answer, continued being friends with her, and just continued with my life, but for some reason, I just could not let her go. Even after a polite "no", I would continue my romantic affection towards her. This would end up causing many an upset and argument between us. I felt so bad every time we fought, it felt like each time was the end of everything between us, I even made her cry and several occasions, purely because she did love me as a friend, and did value me, but wanted me to stop trying to force her into being something that I wanted her to be. Despite this though, I just never did stop loving her, despite all of the times I promised to move on.

It was then in October that came the breaking point. It was inevitable, I knew it was coming, but I was never quite prepared. She got a boyfriend. It broke me. Perhaps it might have been more wise to just keep my feelings to myself but I told her how it made me feel, I told her that I was crushed, that I felt as if my world was ending, that I loved her more than anything in the world and my heart was in two. In hindsight, this was incredibly selfish. A close friend had found happiness in the form of love and all I could do was tell her how much it hurt me. This whole incident drove a huge wedge between us that, despite trying, changed things between us completely. We stopped speaking for a while, and even when we did reconnect a little later on, it just wasn't the same as it was. Determined to move past this, I jumped on Tinder, and I actually did end up talking to someone for a few weeks, and it looked like it might actually be going somewhere. In my heart, I knew I still was in love with someone else, and the spark was nowhere near what I felt with her, but I thought if I don't at least try to love someone else, I'll never get anywhere.

To prove that I was trying to move on, I decide to tell her that I had met someone on Tinder and we were getting along well, and we might start dating soon, and she was so thrilled for me. If anything, it kind of reignited that lost friendship a little bit, with her knowing I was finally moving past her and onto someone else. We were okay for a few weeks, but then she tells me that she's having issues with her relationship, and would potentially break up with her boyfriend. In my infinite wisdom, I decided to tell her that I was still in love with her, and how much I wanted to be with her, even despite the girl I met from Tinder in the equation. She was outraged, and rightly so. She called me selfish, said I was just using this girl from Tinder as a means to get over or replace her, even though I didn't have any real feelings towards her, and she was right. After that, she said she was going to block me on the messaging app we use, and that she wanted space from me, and she would talk to me again when she thought it appropriate. This was in May, it's now almost August, and I haven't had any contact with her since.

We'd gone a few weeks without talking before, perhaps a little over a month, but it has never been this long. I am beginning to lose hope that she will ever want to talk to me again. I got into a drunken mess last week, and made the mistake of trying to DM her over Twitter, begging her to just speak to me, and that I just wanted to be friends, and how I regretted everything. I got no response, even in the morning when I messaged her an apology for my drunk texts. When I was drunk, I also had a glance at her Twitter page, something I hadn't done since October, and she seems to be in a relationship still, although if that's with someone new or the same guy as before, I'm unsure.

It's this silence that I find so deafening and what's depressing me so much. This time, I think we're done for real. I think she has finally decided that she is better off without me in her life, and that hurts. It hurts so much. I'm not undeserving of it, she has given me chance after chance after chance, and I ruined things every single time through my inability to learn and grow as a person. I was too busy chasing a relationship that was never happening that I ended up sacrificing a very real and very close friendship that I should have treasured more than anything, and that I would trade the world for to get back.

I'm not bitter about anything, I'm glad that she's happy and has someone, after getting to know her, I can honestly say she deserves to be happy more than anyone I know, I just wish it didn't have to come at the expense of my own happiness. I still feel like I'm in love with her, even now, as silly as it is. I just cannot move forward. Even though I fully accept and appreciate it will never, ever happen, I have just never felt anything like I've felt for her, and I'm not sure I ever will, and that scares me. She really is unique, one of a kind, and I don't think I will ever find anyone else quite like her. Even if I did, I'm ever more scared that I'll mistreat them and push them away just like I did before. I don't think I can handle this sort of pain again. It's been 10 months since my heart got broken, and I'm still here picking up the pieces, dealing with the depression every day. constantly feeling as if I'm going to break down crying. I'm just fully incapable of moving past this, and I don't know for how much longer I can take this sort of emotional pain. The anti depressants helped for a time, but this last week has seemingly rendered them ineffective once more.

I appreciate I have a lot of friends here, but if after reading this you determine I'm not a good or nice person anymore, then I don't blame you. I have done some really bad and upsetting things to a girl I love more than anyone or anything in the world, and as much as I regret what happened, I can't take any of it back. I am a bad person, a bad friend. I try not to be as self depreciating as I once was, but this much seems obvious. The more I think about it, the more I think that I probably didn't deserve to be with her to begin with. I realise this has gone on forever and I don't expect anyone at all to read this, but I just really needed to get these feelings down somewhere. Maybe I'll regret making any of this public, I'm not sure, but I just really needed to vent. I hope you all understand. I'm sorry if I've let anyone down.
 

Rui

Karamatsu Boy
Administrator
I don't think you're a bad person at all, Lemon. Clumsy, sure, but anyone who says they have never messed up a meaningful relationship before has probably never had one. I'm quite a bit older than you, I think, but I still argue with some of my close friends now and then. Sometimes it's my fault, sometimes it's theirs, and so long as it doesn't break us it's all just part of the process of learning about one another as human beings. Your clumsiness hasn't hurt her as much as you've hurt yourself and I think it would be healthy to admit that and stop beating yourself up about ruining things. You can't imagine it right now but you will feel love again and it will be different to what you felt for her, and that's ok. Maybe you will always love her too, and that's ok too. I love my closest friends very deeply, on a level that is definitely not portrayed in the media as normal, and I oscillate wildly between being too intense and too aloof. We all have to figure out what works for us and our friends individually.

I once had a relationship which 'went bad' like you describe (it was a friendship with zero romance on either side, but it was still a close friendship and very important to both of us). And you do need to give her the time she needs. She has already told you that she will end the silence when she's ready so it's not like you have anything left to learn, and as you have already realised, continuing to nag her will only convince her more that she's not ready for the emotional investment of being responsible for your happiness. She was happy for you when you found someone else. She wants to be your friend, but she also wants you to spread yourself further so that your time together is special. It's only been three months. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but when my friend and I stopped speaking it took ten years before I was ready to forgive him. It probably won't take that long for you guys; I'm unusually stubborn and my friend was ready to bury the hatchet many years before I was. It was hard. I missed him bitterly every day that we weren't speaking. But I needed that time, and to be the one to initiate things again rather than compromising on the other person's schedule. We are good friends again now and chat several times a week. You can't shortcut it by saying you've changed; that risks building up expectations which will make each successive setback even worse. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time either; there are no magic words that you can say in your DMs, drunk or otherwise, that will fix something that mostly needs time to heal.

But the waiting is driving you crazy, and that's understandable. You need to fill the time with other stuff - not a new romance, though if that happens anyway that's great. Otherwise, you need to find something that makes you happy in some small way so that you can remember what it feels like to care about things other than your perceived failings. Maybe caring for a pet will give you that outlet, or meeting new people in a different circle, or writing a self-indulgent blog that forces you into a routine of analysing your thoughts and getting some content down even when you're not in the mood to do anything at all. I don't know what works for you. I have a really bossy rescue cat who is always happy to absorb my loneliness when I'm feeling down about something so that's my outlet. He doesn't care about my job or my social life at all, so we have a very pure relationship with no expectations.

My partner once told me something very important at the start of our relationship. I casually asked whether they felt they needed me, because in that moment I thought it was romantic and powerful and wonderful. I wanted to be needed. The response was sort of blunt. "No. I don't need you at all. I'm only with you because I want to be with you." Our relationship has stayed on that basis ever since, and even though it was sort of crushing to be bluntly told I wasn't needed (lol), it turns out that it was what I needed to hear. Relationships are weird, and the way that they're portrayed in the media is weirder still. You've learnt a lot and grown immeasurably as a person since January 2019. You'll keep growing. There's a ton of wisdom in your post even if the negative points are still too sore for that wisdom to shine through.

R
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
I don't think you're a bad person at all, Lemon. Clumsy, sure, but anyone who says they have never messed up a meaningful relationship before has probably never had one. I'm quite a bit older than you, I think, but I still argue with some of my close friends now and then. Sometimes it's my fault, sometimes it's theirs, and so long as it doesn't break us it's all just part of the process of learning about one another as human beings. Your clumsiness hasn't hurt her as much as you've hurt yourself and I think it would be healthy to admit that and stop beating yourself up about ruining things. You can't imagine it right now but you will feel love again and it will be different to what you felt for her, and that's ok. Maybe you will always love her too, and that's ok too. I love my closest friends very deeply, on a level that is definitely not portrayed in the media as normal, and I oscillate wildly between being too intense and too aloof. We all have to figure out what works for us and our friends individually.

I once had a relationship which 'went bad' like you describe (it was a friendship with zero romance on either side, but it was still a close friendship and very important to both of us). And you do need to give her the time she needs. She has already told you that she will end the silence when she's ready so it's not like you have anything left to learn, and as you have already realised, continuing to nag her will only convince her more that she's not ready for the emotional investment of being responsible for your happiness. She was happy for you when you found someone else. She wants to be your friend, but she also wants you to spread yourself further so that your time together is special. It's only been three months. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but when my friend and I stopped speaking it took ten years before I was ready to forgive him. It probably won't take that long for you guys; I'm unusually stubborn and my friend was ready to bury the hatchet many years before I was. It was hard. I missed him bitterly every day that we weren't speaking. But I needed that time, and to be the one to initiate things again rather than compromising on the other person's schedule. We are good friends again now and chat several times a week. You can't shortcut it by saying you've changed; that risks building up expectations which will make each successive setback even worse. It didn't work last time and it won't work this time either; there are no magic words that you can say in your DMs, drunk or otherwise, that will fix something that mostly needs time to heal.

But the waiting is driving you crazy, and that's understandable. You need to fill the time with other stuff - not a new romance, though if that happens anyway that's great. Otherwise, you need to find something that makes you happy in some small way so that you can remember what it feels like to care about things other than your perceived failings. Maybe caring for a pet will give you that outlet, or meeting new people in a different circle, or writing a self-indulgent blog that forces you into a routine of analysing your thoughts and getting some content down even when you're not in the mood to do anything at all. I don't know what works for you. I have a really bossy rescue cat who is always happy to absorb my loneliness when I'm feeling down about something so that's my outlet. He doesn't care about my job or my social life at all, so we have a very pure relationship with no expectations.

My partner once told me something very important at the start of our relationship. I casually asked whether they felt they needed me, because in that moment I thought it was romantic and powerful and wonderful. I wanted to be needed. The response was sort of blunt. "No. I don't need you at all. I'm only with you because I want to be with you." Our relationship has stayed on that basis ever since, and even though it was sort of crushing to be bluntly told I wasn't needed (lol), it turns out that it was what I needed to hear. Relationships are weird, and the way that they're portrayed in the media is weirder still. You've learnt a lot and grown immeasurably as a person since January 2019. You'll keep growing. There's a ton of wisdom in your post even if the negative points are still too sore for that wisdom to shine through.

R
Thanks for the reply Rui. I appreciate that you (and a few others) actually took the time to read my massively post. I think you're right in that I need to forgive myself a little before I can fully move forward, I'm just finding it difficult. I actually thought for the longest time that she was going to be the one for me, and this was it, and I often just sit and think how things might have turned out differently if I'd not acted the way I did sometimes. Of course, no one can ever know how things might have turned out, all we have is the present, and that's what I have to deal with.

I'm glad you and your friend managed to work things out in the end. Even if it does take 10 years, I'd be willing to wait. Pretending I had changed and moved on did more harm than good, as you said, and it's probably for the best to take the time and wait until those feelings have legitimately cooled down or disappeared completely. I'm not sure that I'm capable of 'just being friends' at this moment in time, no matter how much I wish I could make myself content with that. I think filling that void will also be an important step of healing, but I've still yet to figure that part out yet, hopefully it will come in time.

I think that is part of my problem. I also want to be needed, but no one has ever needed me. I have so much love to give someone in return, but no one has ever wanted it. It really hurts to not be good enough for anyone. I'm not sure how to get past that. Things are still incredibly sore right now, but I hope that you're right, and this experience has at least changed me for the better if nothing else. Time heals all wounds, as they say, and I'm sure even if it takes years, I'll get there at some point.
 
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