Relationships and Romance

I feel like I want to chime in with at least something here. This is something that jumped out at me, Vash:
Vashdaman said:
I already knew I loved her, and felt that the time had come where I had no choice but to tell her my feelings, or I mean at least tell her I really like her and want to be with her.
. . .
So about a month ago I sent her two long emails confessing how much I adore her and how happy I would be to be her boyfriend if she'd have me.
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That's a bit of a leap there, dude. I can't help but feel that a more gradual approach would've been a better bet. Everyone is different, and different things work for different people, but I really believe that being more subtle in these things is a higher-percentage play.


I'm probably not gonna make myself popular with the rest of this reply, so look away now if you need to. 😬

Vashdaman said:
Is it normal for long distance couples to go days on end without word?
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I reckon no. I asked my girlfriend about this, too, and she thought the same. (We're still long-distance at this time, ever since meeting on this very forum.) She says that the time difference between Japan and the UK must play a factor, but reckons that unless it's a mutually agreed thing, it'd be unusual to not check in with at least a quick message each day. By mutually agreed, she means that, say, if you'd been chatting a lot lately and both just fancied a bit of breathing space, for example.

Vashdaman said:
And are we a couple now?
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I don't think that's really for any of us here to say. Personally, though, I think that her apparent tendency to gloss over the subject of your emails surely can't be a good sign. It comes across to me as a very Japanese way of sidestepping anything messy or overly confrontational.

I'd be curious, though: were your Skype conversations generally conducted in English or Japanese? I'm trying to get an impression of it here.
 
D1tchd1gger said:
How is she? I noticed she deleted her account, so thought the worst. I didn't want to ask you that though, obviously, just in case! But seems all good still 👍
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Yeah, Aya's good, thanks, buddy. 🙂
She just didn't need her account for posting anymore. She still reads the site now and again, though.

In fact...
She's actually going to be moving to Scotland later this year. Big step.
 
Neil.T said:
I reckon no. I asked my girlfriend about this, too, and she thought the same. (We're still long-distance at this time, ever since meeting on this very forum.) She says that the time difference between Japan and the UK must play a factor, but reckons that unless it's a mutually agreed thing, it'd be unusual to not check in with at least a quick message each day. By mutually agreed, she means that, say, if you'd been chatting a lot lately and both just fancied a bit of breathing space, for example.
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I don’t really want to make Vash overthink this any more than he is already, but I’d say that’s VERY dependent on people’s personalities and attitudes. I had a family member who was in a relationship that sounds very much like yours Neil, they would definitely talk or message every day. And that’s wonderful, if that’s the kind of person you are and the kind of relationship you enjoy.

However. Would I do that? No. Definitely not. As much as I might love someone, I don’t feel the need to be in constant contact with them. It’s not uncommon for me to go for months without speaking to a member of my family. Do I love them? Yeah. Might they like me to be in more regular contact? Yeah, I’m pretty sure they would. But do I actually feel like speaking to them if I don’t really have anything to say? No. I’m not one for small talk. I don’t really enjoy regurgitating the details of what I’ve been doing day to day and to be brutally honest, I’m not really that interested in the mundane things other people are doing either. If there are practical things to talk about or I want to share and discuss ideas and opinions, I love that. Otherwise I'm comfortable with my own thoughts and don't really need the distraction of discussing what, to me, seem quite insignificant things.

I know a lot of people do like that stuff, and do things like talk about their day with each other every night when they get home; I'm willing to concede that my dislike of this behaviour probably makes me a bit abnormal. But I do exist, and I presume other people with similar attitudes must also exist, though we're probably not the easiest people to conduct relationships with, especially not with people who do enjoy that constant attention or engagement. To someone like you Neil (or to Vash perhaps) an attitude like mine might seem a bit cold or distant. But I'm absolutely still capable of loving and caring about people, just in my own way. So while I don't really wish to colour Vash's judgment one way or the other (mainly because I'm not personally familiar with the person he's been communicating with) I'm not sure taken by itself lack of communication should have much read into it at all.
 
ayase said:
I’d say that’s VERY dependent on people’s personalities and attitudes.
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Indeed so; as I said in my post: "Everyone is different, and different things work for different people". At the end of the day, anyone can only comment based on their own experiences and knowledge. I'm the same, and can offer some input based on positive experience, in terms of what proved successful in my own circumstances. 🙂

Following on from that, if I may contrast your own words, ayase, with those of Aya's in my post...
ayase said:
If there are practical things to talk about or I want to share and discuss ideas and opinions

[Emphasis added]
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Neil.T said:
unless it's a mutually agreed thing
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This is another place where our views very much diverge, ayase. I agree with Aya that things are better when they're mutually agreed. Sometimes something needs to be conceded by one side in the interests of balance; each person is no more and no less that 50 percent of the equation when it comes down to it, and if only one person was calling the shots, then it's not very collaborative.

Don't get me wrong, though: that can probably work for some people to a degree, but the person who would be always giving ground in this case would surely have to be somewhat lacking in self-respect, and I'm not sure how sustainable (or even healthy) that really is.

But then again, perhaps in that case the aim might not be what's healthy or sustainable in the first place — for either party. I accept that.

I'm certainly not claiming to have all the answers here; just thinking out loud, really.
¯\(ツ)/¯
 
Vashdaman said:
I know at one point she also enjoyed daily small talk with me, seemingly very much, which is why it worried me when it went a bit quiet.
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This sounds depressingly familiar, but kinda from both side of the fence. It's not uncommon for me to drift away from people when I run out of things to talk about with them, if I feel like I have to put on a bit of a facade in order to keep conversation going, or if either of us seem to run out of stimulating conversation. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a mental vampire who drains people of their interesting thoughts and then moves on. That's not a good feeling, but at the same time I don't feel obliged to maintain relationships if I'm not really getting much out of them any more (that's its own kind of one sided-ness). Not trying to project onto your girl here Vash, nobody really knows how anybody else's mind works, but this thread is hopefully useful from the point of view of people thinking about and trying to understand themselves and others, that's the underpinnings of any relationship, no? Like Neil I'm mostly just thinking out loud.
[Emphasis added]
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Freudian slip? I will admit to being pretty preoccupied with my own thoughts a lot of the time, but of course if another party brings something interesting to discuss to me I'm happy to oblige. It's the mundane stuff, the small talk, but more than anything else it's the gossip. So many people seem to love talking about their experiences with and opinions of other people in their day-to-day life, something I really could not care less about. If I meet someone who's able to regularly generate actually stimulating conversation I can talk all day, however in my experience such people are few and far between (also predominantly male, which doesn't make them good romantic prospects for me personally).
Neil.T said:
This is another place where our views very much diverge, ayase. I agree with Aya that things are better when they're mutually agreed. Sometimes something needs to be conceded by one side in the interests of balance; each person is no more and no less that 50 percent of the equation when it comes down to it, and if only one person was calling the shots, then it's not very collaborative.

Don't get me wrong, though: that can probably work for some people to a degree, but the person who would be always giving ground in this case would surely have to be somewhat lacking in self-respect, and I'm not sure how sustainable (or even healthy) that really is.
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Eh, I think you're perhaps presuming here that at least one person in the equation is always going to be (for want of a better word and no slight intended) a more needy kind of person. Relationships between two people who aren't particularly needy are totally possible (and totally preferable for me personally) but you may not be wrong in identifying that this discrepancy between attitudes could be what Vash is experiencing here, to some degree. Which I guess would come with its own challenges, but it still doesn't mean that a less communicative partner is any less capable of having strong loving feelings, that's what I was really getting at.
 
Hey, it sounds like you are dragging yourself through the mental ringer a bit! I've been in your shoes a bit before and know it's a difficult mindset to get out of. Good to see that you've taken a mental step back a bit though. Maybe take some time to look after yourself a bit though. I know it's a bit difficult at the minute, being on lockdown and all, but you will just end up making yourself ill with worry. The distance thing must be tough. Have you made plans to go out to see her once this whole thing has blown over? I'm sure when she's ready, she will reach out to you to chat. I think you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be the cool person who always knows what to do and say, but I'm presuming she likes you for you! So maybe try not to be so hard on yourself!
 
Vashdaman said:
I've been a brute without fully realising it.
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I really wouldn't say you've been a brute, Vash, but I would say that you've been rather guilty of overcooking things. "Using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut" is the phrase that springs to mind.

I mean, you and I know that you mean no harm, but there are just some things that can ring alarm bells, like a sudden intense outpouring of feelings.

ayase said:
I think you're perhaps presuming here that at least one person in the equation is always going to be (for want of a better word and no slight intended) a more needy kind of person. Relationships between two people who aren't particularly needy are totally possible
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Again, in my own view, ayase, there's a big difference between neediness and wanting to be together. If both partners had the kind of outlook that you describe there, it would feel to me like the glue you'd want to bond those two people together is somehow missing. Aya's take on it was that it was like "two ships passing in the night".

I can't help but think that things just work so much better when two people have a degree of what I would term "complementary differences". That way, your differing dispositions mean that both are unlikely to react exactly the same way to any given situation, and — I think — are better able to support each other and compensate for each others' relative shortcomings. It also allows for different ways of looking at things, and for learning from each other.

Again, I can only speak from my own experience, but I tend towards seeing your example more as two magnets repelling.
 
Neil.T said:
Again, in my own view, ayase, there's a big difference between neediness and wanting to be together. If both partners had the kind of outlook that you describe there, it would feel to me like the glue you'd want to bond those two people together is somehow missing. Aya's take on it was that it was like "two ships passing in the night".

I can't help but think that things just work so much better when two people have a degree of what I would term "complementary differences". That way, your differing dispositions mean that both are unlikely to react exactly the same way to any given situation, and — I think — are better able to support each other and compensate for each others' relative shortcomings. It also allows for different ways of looking at things, and for learning from each other.

Again, I can only speak from my own experience, but I tend towards seeing your example more as two magnets repelling.
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I think love takes as many forms as there are personalities, personally I don't think there's any particular right way of going about it. People can of course only speak from their own experiences, but I certainly know couples (mainly older ones) who love each other very deeply but spend a lot of time doing their own things. Long-distance relationships can be very difficult for some people, especially if they're used to having their own time and setting their own agenda. I've come to the conclusion over the years they're probably not for me, as a big part of what I want from a relationship is to share experiences; things like going for a day out, going to a concert or a movie (and the more base things as well I suppose, I don't think there's any shame in appreciating the physical side of relationships). Enjoying myself while also enjoying someone else's enjoyment is probably the best way to put it, if that makes sense. Just seeing and hopefully making someone happy. And that doesn't necessarily need a lot of words to be said.

If people are sharing the same physical space that's easy and comes naturally, but if someone's half the world away then that's not really possible. All you have is words. And eventually (or relatively quickly, speaking from personal experience) people who aren't into the small talk will probably run out of those. I've tried to compensate for that in the past by writing at length about something that interests me and which I believe will interest someone else and provoke a discussion, only to receive a couple of lines in response that don't really provide any opening to continue the discussion (Hell, that still happens semi-regularly with my AUKN posts, at least you engage with me Neil :p). How do you deal with that? I usually give up, because at that point it starts to feel draining. Suffering this kind of experience on more than one occasion is one of the ways in which I feel for Vash. But it's why I also understand people going quiet.

I totally agree on the complimentary differences front by the way, I don't think people need to be alike, but if they are different they do need to accept those differences and allow each other to be themselves. If someone expects certain attitudes or behaviours from their partner that don't come naturally to them, I think that way lies misery, frankly.
 
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Vashdaman said:
I'm worried this purgatory has no end in sight. I'll get one message from her a month and keep praying things get better, But will they get better? Has anyone been through this? @ayase any insight here? I am desperate, I can't give up my hope while there is still hope.
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I wish I could be of more help to you Vash. I am genuinely rooting for you but I think I should try and avoid getting into a position of trying to give advice. I'm happy to be open about my own personal experiences from my side, but I wouldn't really feel comfortable getting into the specifics of any other parties involved. There's also the brutal fact that I've never had it end happily, which makes me somewhat unqualified to guide anyone else through treacherous waters I've failed to navigate.

All I feel I can really say, which is probably a bit of a rehash of my earlier post, is that it's very hard to know what's going on in someone else's mind. Especially at a distance. Especially when they're not of a mind or in a position or a mood to want to open up to you. And yes, that can be agonising and lead you to make all sorts of assumptions and imagine a million different scenarios that run the gamut from wonderful to horrible. From what you've said (and bearing in mind I don't know her at all let alone as well as you do) it sounds like the ball is firmly in her court and there's not much you can do but wait. I feel your pain over wanting that response and agonising over whether there's anything you can do to make that happen sooner, but if you'll allow me one singular assumption (and it is an assumption, so feel free to ignore or disregard it) I think it's unlikely there is.
 
@Vashdaman It doesn't sound like she is considerate or respectful of your time, energy, emotions and wellbeing. It's absolutely fine to have different needs and levels of investment, but that comes with a responsibility to understand that other people are not the same, and to be considerate of their feelings too.

Either she understands how painful cancelling the Skype would be for you - which is cruel and clearly a message to you, or she doesn't, which is unintentionally cruel and says a lot about her emotional intelligence.

I think you can probably guess where I'm going with this so I'll stop there.
 
burtkenobi said:
Either she understands how painful cancelling the Skype would be for you - which is cruel and clearly a message to you, or she doesn't, which is unintentionally cruel and says a lot about her emotional intelligence.
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I'll just say it again, I think it's a mistake to presume to know the workings of anybody else's mind or circumstances, especially anyone you don't actually know personally. If the situation was clear to anyone it would be Vash, who actually knows her, not me or you.

Full on projection time: Another possibility is understanding that it would be hurtful and not wanting to hurt someone, but also not knowing what to say or how to respond and avoiding the situation until coming to a conclusion. I can think of an almost infinite number of potential reasons this situation could arise, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong here Vash) that's the thing that's worrying and upsetting. The not knowing. But you'll never know anyone's true reasons or feelings until they tell you, and I think trying to imagine them beforehand is just a form of self-torture.
 
ayase said:
I'll just say it again, I think it's a mistake to presume to know the workings of anybody else's mind
. . .
If the situation was clear to anyone it would be Vash
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Ironically, that last bit seems itself rather a presumption to me; I really think @burtkenobi's input is pretty solid.

As I might put it, quoting a Chinese proverb: "A spectator sees more than a player in the heat of a game."
 
Neil.T said:
Ironically, that last bit seems itself rather a presumption to me; I really think @burtkenobi's input is pretty solid.

As I might put it, quoting a Chinese proverb: "A spectator sees more than a player in the heat of a game."
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I'm less than convinced that anyone can accurately judge the actions and motivations of someone they've never met or interacted with based on second hand information from someone with very strong feelings for that person who is in an emotionally vulnerable state.

I'm not trying to argue that other people's assessments are definitely wrong, the bottom line for me is that I care more about Vash than I care about being right. I'm not sure anybody else's assessment of the situation (including my own, which is why I'm trying my hardest not to make any judgements about it) will really do much good until he actually knows first hand from the girl he's talking to what's going on.
 
ayase said:
I'm not sure anybody else's assessment of the situation (including my own, which is why I'm trying my hardest not to make any judgements about it) will really do much good
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I think, at the end of the day (and this is my take on the beginnings of this whole discussion), if you make the conscious effort to type up a post on an Internet forum and apparently seek input, one of two things is going to happen: your post is either going to get ignored or you're gonna get input.

Personally, when I did this same thing here a few years ago, I was very grateful for the response from yourself, ayase, and from @Rui and from Vash and others, too. I felt like I at least wasn't screaming into a void, which was the outcome I was most dreading at the time.

In some cases, the input might not be what you were expecting or even wanting to hear, but it's definitely infinitely better than a void. In my opinion it is, anyway. That's why I think that having input from different sources is so valuable.
 
Sounds tough. One thing you could try would be don't reply for a while. Not in the treat em' mean sense, but just to give her time and you both a bit of perspective. If she was the last one to get back to you, just leave it for a bit. You can get back to her in due course and you can focus on you, whilst you decide when is best to reply. Like you said, it can sometimes be unfair to put an emotional burden on another, so it may give her a bit of breathing space and allow her in time to open up on any feelings she may have. If you're always the one to immediately reply to her, then she has the advantage. I'm not saying that she's doing it on purpose, but she may not realise that it is demanding on you. Just play it cool! Good luck!
 
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