Relationships and Romance

~AyaMachi~ said:
Unfortunately my previous partner put me on a pedestal - it's one thing to have respect and admiration for someone, but another entirely to worship the ground they walk upon and think they can do no wrong.
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Apologies for interjecting, but this part made me curious. In what ways did this present itself as an issue? I imagined that this is how most girls would probably want to be treated, personally. I have 0 experience in these matters, so if it's not too personal, I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts on this. Would be better to be educated on stuff like this if I ever found myself in the fortunate position for it to be useful!
 
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IncendiaryLemon said:
Apologies for interjecting, but this part made me curious. In what ways did this present itself as an issue? I imagined that this is how most girls would probably want to be treated, personally. I have 0 experience in these matters, so if it's not too personal, I'd love to hear your expanded thoughts on the matter. Would be better to be educated on stuff like this if I ever found myself in the fortunate enough position for it to be useful!
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No worries Lemon :) I'll do my best if it helps any!

I'm sure many a girl likes to be wooed and admired - that's how it is in fairy stories, right? There's certainly nothing wrong with showing admiration for someone. Heck, even I've only become confident in the past few years in being able give compliments and credit where it's due to people, because, well, it's nice to do that, and in turn, it's nice to receive :)

My previous partner had only ever been in one relationship before he met me (he was also younger than me as well), and his own inexperience in the game became pretty apparent as time went on. The fact that he seemed quite content in being the more submissive partner in the relationship in turn put pressure on me, because wearing the boss-pants wasn't a role I was willing to fulfill. In addition, his sentiments and overtures of love would become very...stifling. It ended up pushing me away, because while I knew it was coming from a kind place, I simply didn't want him fawning and fussing over me all the time. He became very clingy, which again just served to push me further away.

I've never been a close and sentimental person anyway (I can practically hear @Neil.T scoffing as a write that because I have mellowed since back then), but I don't attach easily to things. I just don't like fuss and attention, so while my ex's sweet natured gestures may have been welcomed by some girls, they just didn't sit well with me, personally. I've often said to Neil that the kind of dynamic that I feel that I need, is one where we're best friends - best friends, but with the added bonus of being something more. There's no putting the other on a pedestal, nor is there any looking down your nose. Neither of us are like that anyway - again, not to sound arrogant, but I think simply by virtue of us both being secure in ourselves as individuals as well as the relationship, we're more like a proper team of equals. We're not joined at the hip. Neil will go off and do something, be it watching a nature documentary, or fiddling around with some cables (I do worry about him sometimes 😒), but, I'm happy knowing he's happy, and vice versa.

I'm sure some girls/women love lots of fuss and attention, but they're the kind I would usually paint as perhaps having very low self-esteem and confidence in the first place. They thrive off of attention and being placed on a pedestal so they can be worshipped and revered. Over time I've come to respect myself a whole lot more than I used to, and I am much more comfortable in my own skin. Even Neil himself will tell you it took him about 3 attempts before I even eventually said "okay, I'll view you as a potential contender, but that's it - it's down to you to prove to me why I should be in a relationship with you!" I certainly don't mean for that to sound arrogant at all, but the truth is, I didn't even want to be in a relationship, so the ball of wooing was effectively in his court. I digressed a little there, but the point is, I like to think that I have a good amount of self-esteem and confidence these days. I certainly respect myself enough now to know what I want, and yes, I do have high standards - I know my worth!

I also think that putting someone on a pedestal puts alot of undue pressure on them. They may end up feeling like they have certain expectations to live up to, and may feel like a failure if they don't make the grade, as it were. I've been put on a pedestal all my life, by my own parents, and you end up becoming so afraid of failure. You want everything to be perfect, and if it's not, you feel like you've failed. I grew up with anxiety as well, so it's not a great mix. They would sing my praises, and I could do no wrong. They were biased towards everything I did or said, and they just couldn't instill proper discipline. Another thing is that a potential partner could potentially take advantage of your good nature, and use emotional manipulation to serve their own interests, which would leave you with proverbial egg on your face ("ah, he loves me way too much. He'll never leave me so it doesn't matter if I act like a bit of a b**ch now and again!")

To sum up, the higher up you place someone, the greater the fall!

Hope this helps Lemon :) Apologies if things aren't clearly explained.
 
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~AyaMachi~ said:
I certainly don't see any issue with being challenging and assertive. I think this is where my point in a previous post about having respect for yourself is just as important as respecting the other person and the relationship. The way I see it, you can't love someone else unless you love yourself, and you have to be able to stand up for yourself, as well as have the curiosity to challenge; the key for me is how you go about that. You can actually do it in a respectful manner, without being hurtful or pig-headed.
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Yeah, but there's something about actually quite combative relationships I find very appealing. Passionate people, I guess, in all things, and ones tough enough to not be easily upset or hurt will always be my favourites. I agree respect is important but there are different kinds of respect to consider in different relationships, but respect for strength and consideration for feelings are quite different creatures. Some people (a lot of people, probably) want and expect the latter whereas I don't, really. I'm not easily hurt, and I'd want the same from a partner, otherwise I doubt we'd be able to stand each other. The ability to be yourself around someone is hugely important, and people are all very different.
 
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~AyaMachi~ said:
No worries Lemon :) I'll do my best if it helps any!

I'm sure many a girl likes to be wooed and admired - that's how it is in fairy stories, right? There's certainly nothing wrong with showing admiration for someone. Heck, even I've only become confident in the past few years in being able give compliments and credit where it's due to people, because, well, it's nice to do that, and in turn, it's nice to receive :)

My previous partner had only ever been in one relationship before he met me (he as also younger than me as well), and his own inexperience in the game became pretty apparent as time went on. The fact that he seemed quite content in being the more submissive partner in the relationship in turn put pressure on me, because wearing the boss-pants wasn't a role I was willing to fulfill. In addition, his sentiments and overtures of love would become very...stifling. It ended up pushing me away, because while I knew it was coming from a kind place, I simply didn't want him fawning and fussing over me all the time. He became very clingy, which again just served to push me further away.

I've never been a close and sentimental person anyway (I can practically hear @Neil.T scoffing as a write that because I have mellowed since back then), but I don't attach easily to things. I just don't like fuss and attention, so while my ex's sweet natured gestures may have been welcomed by some girls, they just didn't sit well with me, personally. I've often said to Neil that the kind of dynamic that I feel that I need, is one where we're best friends - best friends, but with the added bonus of being something more. There's no putting the other on a pedestal, nor is there any looking down your nose. Neither of us are like that anyway - again, not to sound arrogant, but I think simply by virtue of us both being secure in ourselves as individuals as well as the relationship, we're more like a proper team of equals. We're not joined at the hip. Neil will go off and do something, be it watching a nature documentary, or fiddling around with some cables (I do worry about him sometimes 😒), but, I'm happy knowing he's happy, and vice versa.

I'm sure some girls/women love lots of fuss and attention, but they're the kind I would usually paint as perhaps having very low self-esteem and confidence in the first place. They thrive off of attention and being placed on a pedestal so they can be worshipped and revered. Over time I've come to respect myself a whole lot more than I used to, and I am much more comfortable in my own skin. Even Neil himself will tell you it took him about 3 attempts before I even eventually said "okay, I'll view you as a potential contender, but that's it - it's down to you to prove to me why I should be in a relationship with you!" I certainly don't mean for that to sound arrogant at all, but the truth is, I didn't even want to be in a relationship, so the ball of wooing was effectively in his court. I digressed a little there, but the point is, I like to think that I have a good amount of self-esteem and confidence these days. I certainly respect myself enough now to know what I want, and yes, I do have high standards - I know my worth!

I also think that putting someone on a pedestal puts alot of undue pressure on them. They may end up feeling like they have certain expectations to live up to, and may feel like a failure if they don't make the grade, as it were. I've been put on a pedestal all my life, by my own parents, and you end up becoming so afraid of failure. You want everything to be perfect, and if it's not, you feel like you've failed. I grew up with anxiety as well, so it's not a great mix. They would sing my praises, and I could do no wrong. They were biased towards everything I did or said, and they just couldn't instill proper discipline. Another thing is that a potential partner could potentially take advantage of your good nature, and use emotional manipulation to serve their own interests, which would leave you with proverbial egg on your face ("ah, he loves me way too much. He'll never leave me so it doesn't matter if I act like a bit of a b**ch now and again!")

To sum up, the higher up you place someone, the greater the fall!

Hope this helps Lemon :) Apologies if things aren't clearly explained.
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You did a great job of explaining things, thank you! Honestly, if I were going into a relationship, I feel I would naturally fall into many of these traps myself, thinking it's the nice and kind thing to do. A bit of perspective from the other side is helpful to hear.
 
ayase said:
The ability to be yourself around someone is hugely important, and people are all very different.
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Absolutely! Couldn't agree more! And the beauty of getting to know one another over time is, that you both get to know the other's quirks. What makes them unique and different. Only recently I've opened up to @Neil.T about my past struggles with OCD, but also how I deal with it on a daily basis now I'm older, and he's been super supportive and understanding. It's about appreciating similarities and respecting differences, but also having the open mind to adapt and try new ways of doing things that you may not have thought about. While Neil and I have loads to celebrate in terms of similarities (only just got off the phone with him and he totally agrees with me about boycotting Valentine's Day), we also have some differences in how me might deal with certain things, perhaps owing to how we've each been brought up and the environment we each grew up in - my childhood was one filled with anxiety and chaos while by comparison, Neil has had much more structure and routine, which has given him a much calmer mindset (a complete contrast to my high energy and bubbly nature). I think the difference is that I'm able to see this in a positive light now, whereas before, I might have worried that he would judge me too much about the fact that sometimes I struggle to manage my emotions when I become irrationally fearful of things. I worried that it would define me and he would only be able to see that aspect of me. The thruth is, our respective personalities complement each other :)

I do think that even differences should be celebrated, because it means you become exposed to a different perspective. You get to learn something about that person you might not have otherwise known, but it can also be a gateway to learning more about yourself too!

IncendiaryLemon said:
You did a great job of explaining things, thank you! Honestly, if I were going into a relationship, I feel I would naturally fall into many of these traps myself, thinking it's the nice and kind thing to do. A bit of perspective from the other side is helpful to hear.
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😃 😄

I'm thrilled this was of some help to you :) I will add that I certainly have no isssue in receiving complements - I like to think I'm gracious and humble enough to accept anything that people might say, but as @st_owly (witch) said, it's about not overdoing it. Just striking a good balance. From my own personal experience, I find that as I've become more confident and self-assured, I find it so much easier to actually give and receive compliments and praise anyway (even criticism when it's constructive) - it just ends up coming naturally. Often I find that people who are insecure feel the need to dish out compliments left right and centre, and it's often to gain approval from others, not because it's actually true. Also, when people are biased towards you to the point where they can't call you out when you do something stupid, that's a bad sign to me. They're afraid of hurting you or criticising you for doing something wrong, but it causes more hurt when you realise that you could end up in a bad situation (or even breaking the law), because they're too afraid to discipline you. Either that, or they're serving their own interests. Ultimately, it ends up severing trust, and (in the case of my parents), when you unconditionally trust these people to guide you in life (only to find that they've led you down a sketchy path), you just can't trust them any more. I'd always rather people be brutally honest with me, even if it's something I don't want to hear! I digressed a bit in terms of my example, but it was merely to illustrate the extremes of what these kinds of behaviours can do, at least from my own experience.

I've had to learn this on my own though - I've not had any kind of grounding in it as a child since my own childhood was so awful. The person I am now has had a crash course in growing up and developing key life values in only a short space of time, and even now, I'm still learning (I don't think you ever stop). I feel like even now, at 32, I'm almost wiping the slate clean to start again, as it were, but now I'm doing it with a better mindset and more wisdom than I had say, 10 years ago. Plus, I have a supportive partner in the picture :)
 
IncendiaryLemon said:
Would be better to be educated on stuff like this if I ever found myself in the fortunate position for it to be useful!
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You can and you will. When things so suddenly and unexpectedly turn around for someone who hung in there as long as I did, that's your proof.

I can't promise you when and with whom that'll happen, but I can promise that chances will unavoidably present themselves just by virtue of going about your life. Until then, stick to your guns and just keep going about things the way you do them. Obviously some bending will be needed when the time comes :), but since everyone is different and things are different for each individual, it's pointless to go down the rabbit hole of consciously trying to do X or Y because it's what "someone" is bound to like. At the end of the day it's your own character that someone will be attracted to and admire, after all: the things that make you uniquely "you".

When that happens, there'll be no need to battle against the currents, and you can just allow yourself to be carried along with the natural flow of things. I hope that made some kind of sense, because that's how it feels when it's good.

Also, Aya would like to remind you that in the big scheme of things, you're still only a piplet! Time and opportunity are very much on your side. :)

We like you. ;)
 
Neil.T said:
You can and you will. When things so suddenly and unexpectedly turn around for someone who hung in there as long as I did, that's your proof.

I can't promise you when and with whom that'll happen, but I can promise that chances will unavoidably present themselves just by virtue of going about your life. Until then, stick to your guns and just keep going about things the way you do them. Obviously some bending will be needed when the time comes :), but since everyone is different and things are different for each individual, it's pointless to go down the rabbit hole of consciously trying to do X or Y because it's what "someone" is bound to like. At the end of the day it's your own character that someone will be attracted to and admire, after all: the things that make you uniquely "you".

When that happens, there'll be no need to battle against the currents, and you can just allow yourself to be carried along with the natural flow of things. I hope that made some kind of sense, because that's how it feels when it's good.

Also, Aya would like to remind you that in the big scheme of things, you're still only a piplet! Time and opportunity are very much on your side. :)

We like you. ;)
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Bless you Neil, you are far too kind.
 
Neil.T said:
you're still only a squeezy piplet!
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there 😉

It's only the truth @IncendiaryLemon - just stay true to yourself, as cheesy as it sounds, but don't let yourself be taken for a mug either. Respect yourself and know your own worth. Honestly, it took me long enough. I've bloomed very late on in life, and learned some valuable lessons along the way. I feel now that I can move forward armed with more knowledge (and wisdom) gained from previous experience - I'll still make mistakes, granted, but I feel so much more capable at dealing with life in general than I did only a decade ago. I stopped worrying about certain life milestones, or worrying about perhaps not being fully equipped to live the way I'd ideally like. The more I've become content in just "letting things be", the happier I've become. You'll get there, in your own time 🙂

@Vashdaman - you articulated yourself really well in your post, dude - it's an inciteful and honest account 🙂

I'm sure many of us could look back and wish we'd done things differently, but all we can do is accept it and learn from it. Even I can admit that the breakdown of my longest lasting relationship was down to me. While I certainly wasn't intentionally trying to cause any emotional pain, my unstable mindset at the time, coupled with just generally not being comfortable in that relationship brought about some irrational behaviour that, looking back on, I do of course regret. But, what's done is done. While difficult, we parted ways and I do believe it was for the best. For so many reasons it just wouldn't have worked out anyway, and in the space of a couple of years, I've certainly learned more about myself and I hope that he is happy in his relationship with someone much more attuned to his life values. Thanks again for such an honest account - we live and learn, as the saying goes 🙂
 
While it's on my mind, I just want to reiterate the excellent point that @st_owly (witch) made about simple gestures. Neil and I are both very no-frills. Neither of us care about flashy or ostentatious displays of affection, and I've even said that I'd take a cosy night in playing Super Mario over being wined and dined any time; it's just not me. Everyone is different, though, and you could argue that what one person considers to be over-the-top could be pretty normal to someone else; I guess I tend to think of (stereo) typical things like receiving gifts like jewelry or flowers, being taken out to dinner, having a short break booked or any other such thing as being too much for me personally, and would much more appreciate help in tackling something around the house, or a reassuring cuddle if I'm feeling down or have had a bad day at the office, popping the kettle on - these things mean so much more, but also, I think when your partner tunes into you and what you like (because they know you and how you tick), that says so much more to me. They're being attentive; perhaps they've remembered something that you've said, and to me, that really is the mark of showing that you care.

I've always been very low-key in my adult life; I deliberately want to live in an unassuming manner because I don't like being the centre of attention. I don't want to be lavished with gifts like I'm some Goddess or Princess (well, I AM a Princess, technically 😜). I can't speak for all women, but personally, the fact that Neil just cares so much about my well being, and that he'd willingly put himself in harm's way before he'd let anything happen to me, just means more to me than anything money could buy, and is testament to his character. While I'm more than capable at looking out for myself, I find something incredibly special about a man who's willing to protect his woman, even if it's just taking your hand to make sure you don't slip and fall. I'm modern in terms of my attitudes and values, for sure, but I'm still a bit "old skool" about certain things (I'm all for women proposing but I'd much prefer a man to do it personally!) I just can't resist a bit of the fairy tale life 😉. Looking out for each other throughout life is the most amazing and special thing you can do for each other, imo 🙂
 
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I have to say reading all this is fascinating, I’m learning a fair bit about human interaction that I hadn’t clocked onto before.

Bit of a long rambling ahead so feel free to ignore at your own convenience!

Being autistic you tend to see the world through a very different lens. The idea of being less social and self-contained isn’t an especially daunting thought to me as it could be for others, though I do wonder how much more difficult the concepts of love and relationships will be whenever it comes to pass.

A relationship isn’t something I’d really go out of my way to pursue, though at the same time waiting for something to come along isn’t exactly the most practical path to take either. I suppose a concern of mine would be how I present myself to another.

To be blunt I’m rather well...blunt and straightforward, which some could perceive as cold, though I am a lot better at seeming human when around others than I was say four or five years ago.

When I’m on my own however? I feel like a well maintained Android of sorts going from day to day in routines and familiar patterns that keep me sane 😂

I sort of wonder to myself could I keep up an aura of relative normality for another, or would I be able to slowly lower my facade and just act like myself around another without deterring them. I feel like I lack, not necessarily a personality but any sort of charisma.

Outside of having decent knowledge on certain subjects (autism powers ftw) I don’t really have many characteristics outside of being rather self-depreciative, though I suppose I am a good listener.

Something I have noticed though is that being around people that like me and want me around has helped me to develop myself further, and even just talking and listening to folks on here has helped in ways I hadn’t really realised until introspection.

I suppose for now it’s a slow burn in the form of an uphill battle in terms of developing my personality and how I present myself to those around me, though just being comfortable with expressing myself like this on the forum is a sign of progress!

Apologies for the ramblings- it is very difficult to put these thoughts into words!

*does best Catherine Bartender impression* “And that’s the HWR trivia for tonight”
 
@HWR - please do join in 😃🙂 if there's anything that you can take from what users here contribute, then great. For what it's worth, I'm just speaking from past experience and the place I'm in now - even I'm still learning about myself and the world around me, and it's always interesting to hear other perspectives 🙂

Personally, I think you put yourself across in a very articulate manner (that post was really well written, so major props). I also think you interact really well with people here. I'm careful about what I say regarding Autism and the spectrum, simply because I'm not so knowledgeable about it and haven't had the exposure to it, but one of my distant cousins is autistic, and he's been (not sure if he still is) in a relationship 🙂. I think so long as people are respectful of each other and each other's needs - as I mentioned in a previous post being attentive to one another is (to me, at least) really important.
 
HWR said:
No worries, it’s been received quite well and actually ended up in the physical edition of Artefact Magazine. I was surprised and honestly think I’ve peaked early in terms of quality 😅
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No worries 😃👍

Nah, don't say that, dude. You're still a piplet like Incendiary Lemon 😉👍

Plenty of time, yet 😊 You even mentioned introspection in your long post. I personally think that's a good thing. I'm very introspective myself, but have only recently learned how to use it positively and constructively, rather than just beat myself up about things. I think there's a lot to be said for self awareness, and indeed awareness in general, as sadly, I think many people in this day and age are so caught up in their own little world's they don't notice anything going on beyond their own noses!
 
~AyaMachi~ said:
I've even said that I'd take a cosy night in playing Super Mario over being wined and dined any time
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And this is just one of the many ways in which Aya is so bloody amazing. 😊

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@HWR: Fascinating post above, dude. It was a very insightful read, as was your article. (I read that when you originally offered the link in the convo thread a while back.)

My friend since primary school is on the milder end of the autism spectrum, so I have some personal experience of it there, in terms of the potential challenges it can create in terms of building and maintaining long-term relationships. He was in a relationship with a woman he met on a dating site a few years ago, and although that didn't quite work out in the end, it was actually to do with his shift patterns changing and shrinking the opportunities for meeting up (since they lived in separate towns), rather than anything related to any facets of autistic behaviours.

I can't remember if you ever got around to watching that BBC iPlayer programme about TV nature presenter Chris Packham. His long-term partner is completely unfazed by his autism too.

And I find your writing here very interesting to read, for what it's worth, so I think you probably have a lot more latent character than perhaps you've been able to fully unlock in person thus far, but that can surely only improve over time with experience. You're still a young guy.
 
I have not watched that documentary yet, though I did watch one about Gary Numan that was very fascinating. As for my writing it is the best way for me to express myself, as when I talk I tend to fumble along the way.
 
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