The Evangelion thread
- Thread starter Neil.T
- Start date
D1tchd1gger
Shinigami
There's also Death and Rebirth (or Death (True)² on Netflix), but I'm not sure how coherent that is in telling the story of the show.
It's not terribly, I wouldn't say: it's more of a character study.
I'll aim for some episode-by-episode bullet points to post here.
(It'll make for an interesting writing exercise, too.
)For @Dan, a potted account of episodes 17 to 24 of Neon Genesis Evangelion:
Episode 17:
• Evangelion Unit-04 is activated at a branch of NERV in the USA, but something goes terribly wrong, and the Eva, the facility and all its personnel are wiped out.
• After that tragedy, our guys at NERV in Japan are given Unit-03 to activate due to their experience. The Unit is transported from the US by air.
• Shinji's friend Tōji is chosen to be the test pilot.
Episode 18:
• The activation of the new Eva Unit-03 also goes terribly wrong as it becomes possessed by the Thirteenth Angel. Shinji is instructed by his father, Gendō, to destroy it using his Unit-01, but he refuses, being unwilling to risk hurting its pilot. Gendō orders that control of Shinji's Eva be immediately handed over to the onboard autopilot system.
• The autopilot is brutally efficient at destroying its target, finishing up by crushing the Entry Plug with Tōji still inside it. Tōji is very badly injured, losing his lower left leg.
Episode 19:
• Devastated by Tōji's injuries and upset by Gendō's behaviour, Shinji quits as Eva Unit-01's pilot and leaves NERV. The Fourteenth Angel attacks.
• Shinji reluctantly returns upon learning that if an Angel were to be able to reach the white giant "Adam" hidden deep below NERV HQ, it would trigger an apocalyptic event foretold as "Third Impact".
• Shinji is able to defeat the Angel, but only after his Eva again goes berserk. The Eva, roaring like a beast, devours the Angel's remains, including its so-called S² Engine, which is its limitless source of power.
Episode 20:
• It turns out that Shinji's victory against the Fourteenth Angel came at a high cost: after he achieved an extraordinarily high synchronisation rate with the Eva of 400 percent, he was actually absorbed into the Entry Plug.
• NERV scientist Ritsuko comes up with a complex plan to return Shinji to physical form, but it will take an entire month to execute.
• During the time that Shinji's consciousness is bonded with the Eva, he feels his mother's presence within.
• Ritsuko's plan to recover Shinji fails, but he is somehow able to return to the world of the living through his own will.
Episode 21:
• This is partly a flashback episode giving details of the formation of NERV as an organisation, of Rei's background, and of the world-changing event known as Second Impact.
• Back in the present day, Misato's ex-lover Kaji, outed as a triple-agent, is shot dead by an unknown assailant.
Episode 22:
• The Fifteenth Angel attacks from low orbit around Earth.
• Eva Unit-01 remains in a suspended state owing to its dangerous condition, and an increasingly agitated Asuka is no longer able to synchronise with her Unit-02, so Rei is sent out in Unit-00 to eliminate the Angel.
• Rei is ordered to retrieve the Spear of Longinus that is embedded in the chest of the white giant, "Adam", and hurl it like a javelin to pierce the Angel's defensive AT Field and destroy it. The plan works, but the Spear is pulled into lunar orbit and is irretrievably lost.
Episode 23:
• Gendō is ordered to explain to his superiors at SEELE why he allowed the apparently invaluable Spear of Longinus to be lost.
• The Sixteenth Angel attacks.
• Rei uses a desperate tactic to destroy the Angel, using Unit-00's self-destruct function at close range. The blast is enormous, and she surely could not have survived. Shinji is left numb, confiding in Misato that "The tears won't come."
• Puzzlingly, however, Rei has somehow apparently survived the blast. But...
• The truth is later revealed: "Rei" is actually a series of clones. When one dies, another is brought into use.
• In an act of personal vengeance against Gendō, Ritsuko destroys the clones. For her act of treason, she is confined in a cell at NERV HQ.
Episode 24:
• Left lost and confused about the revelation with Rei, Shinji ponders what he is supposed to do now. He meets an enigmatic boy of around his age called Kaworu Nagisa, who has apparently been called in as a replacement Eva pilot for Asuka.
• Despondent that she has become no longer able to operate her Eva Unit-02, Asuka's mental state deteriorates to the point that she becomes unresponsive. She is hospitalised within the NERV medical facility.
• With Kaworu taking the lead and making the moves, he and Shinji strike up a kind of friendship. Key scene:
• Unfortunately, Kaworu turns out to be the Seventeenth and final Angel in human form, sent by SEELE. He reaches the white giant hidden deep below NERV headquarters, but it is in fact not "Adam" at all and is instead something called "Lilith". With Kaworu now trapped and in order to preserve humankind, Shinji makes the hard decision to kill his new friend, crushing him within the hand of Eva Unit-01. Shinji's mental state is brought to a new low, and we head in to the story's conclusion as told in The End of Evangelion.
• Evangelion Unit-04 is activated at a branch of NERV in the USA, but something goes terribly wrong, and the Eva, the facility and all its personnel are wiped out.
• After that tragedy, our guys at NERV in Japan are given Unit-03 to activate due to their experience. The Unit is transported from the US by air.
• Shinji's friend Tōji is chosen to be the test pilot.
Episode 18:
• The activation of the new Eva Unit-03 also goes terribly wrong as it becomes possessed by the Thirteenth Angel. Shinji is instructed by his father, Gendō, to destroy it using his Unit-01, but he refuses, being unwilling to risk hurting its pilot. Gendō orders that control of Shinji's Eva be immediately handed over to the onboard autopilot system.
• The autopilot is brutally efficient at destroying its target, finishing up by crushing the Entry Plug with Tōji still inside it. Tōji is very badly injured, losing his lower left leg.
Episode 19:
• Devastated by Tōji's injuries and upset by Gendō's behaviour, Shinji quits as Eva Unit-01's pilot and leaves NERV. The Fourteenth Angel attacks.
• Shinji reluctantly returns upon learning that if an Angel were to be able to reach the white giant "Adam" hidden deep below NERV HQ, it would trigger an apocalyptic event foretold as "Third Impact".
• Shinji is able to defeat the Angel, but only after his Eva again goes berserk. The Eva, roaring like a beast, devours the Angel's remains, including its so-called S² Engine, which is its limitless source of power.
Episode 20:
• It turns out that Shinji's victory against the Fourteenth Angel came at a high cost: after he achieved an extraordinarily high synchronisation rate with the Eva of 400 percent, he was actually absorbed into the Entry Plug.
• NERV scientist Ritsuko comes up with a complex plan to return Shinji to physical form, but it will take an entire month to execute.
• During the time that Shinji's consciousness is bonded with the Eva, he feels his mother's presence within.
• Ritsuko's plan to recover Shinji fails, but he is somehow able to return to the world of the living through his own will.
Episode 21:
• This is partly a flashback episode giving details of the formation of NERV as an organisation, of Rei's background, and of the world-changing event known as Second Impact.
• Back in the present day, Misato's ex-lover Kaji, outed as a triple-agent, is shot dead by an unknown assailant.
Episode 22:
• The Fifteenth Angel attacks from low orbit around Earth.
• Eva Unit-01 remains in a suspended state owing to its dangerous condition, and an increasingly agitated Asuka is no longer able to synchronise with her Unit-02, so Rei is sent out in Unit-00 to eliminate the Angel.
• Rei is ordered to retrieve the Spear of Longinus that is embedded in the chest of the white giant, "Adam", and hurl it like a javelin to pierce the Angel's defensive AT Field and destroy it. The plan works, but the Spear is pulled into lunar orbit and is irretrievably lost.
Episode 23:
• Gendō is ordered to explain to his superiors at SEELE why he allowed the apparently invaluable Spear of Longinus to be lost.
• The Sixteenth Angel attacks.
• Rei uses a desperate tactic to destroy the Angel, using Unit-00's self-destruct function at close range. The blast is enormous, and she surely could not have survived. Shinji is left numb, confiding in Misato that "The tears won't come."
• Puzzlingly, however, Rei has somehow apparently survived the blast. But...
• The truth is later revealed: "Rei" is actually a series of clones. When one dies, another is brought into use.
• In an act of personal vengeance against Gendō, Ritsuko destroys the clones. For her act of treason, she is confined in a cell at NERV HQ.
Episode 24:
• Left lost and confused about the revelation with Rei, Shinji ponders what he is supposed to do now. He meets an enigmatic boy of around his age called Kaworu Nagisa, who has apparently been called in as a replacement Eva pilot for Asuka.
• Despondent that she has become no longer able to operate her Eva Unit-02, Asuka's mental state deteriorates to the point that she becomes unresponsive. She is hospitalised within the NERV medical facility.
• With Kaworu taking the lead and making the moves, he and Shinji strike up a kind of friendship. Key scene:
• Unfortunately, Kaworu turns out to be the Seventeenth and final Angel in human form, sent by SEELE. He reaches the white giant hidden deep below NERV headquarters, but it is in fact not "Adam" at all and is instead something called "Lilith". With Kaworu now trapped and in order to preserve humankind, Shinji makes the hard decision to kill his new friend, crushing him within the hand of Eva Unit-01. Shinji's mental state is brought to a new low, and we head in to the story's conclusion as told in The End of Evangelion.
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Girls with Guns
Chuunibyou
I’m kinda avoiding all the messages above coz I’m halfway through but wanted to give my thoughts. I enjoyed the start and found it intriguing, the action was cool, theres some seriously cool animation at times and I really wanna know more about the angles but then Oscar came in and I find her the most irritating character I’ve seen in a quite some time, my wife felt the same. That kinda spoiled our viewing a little bit but we kept going.
Last night I watched Episodes 12 to 16... I felt the pacing has completely dropped and I have to say my desire to watch more has fallen to... I don’t really wanna watch anymore... the recap episode didn't help and I skipped that about half way through... too much text pop ups for me... to add to that the last episode I watched (16) looks so different to the rest.. im guessing the shipped it out to some else to do.., it doesn’t look HD but even the animation and background art seems a far cry from where it was.
Last time I pushed myself to watch a show was Wolfs Rain... I’ve never mentioned this on here before but I never watched the last episode. I’d pushed myself as far as I could go and I didn’t enjoy it all. So I kinda feel I don’t wanna do the same with this. Especially since they redid the ending in a movie coz people weren’t happy with it. Sorry to all those that love it but right now it’s heading to the dropped pile. My wife really doesn’t wanna watch anymore so I’d have to sit through it myself and my time is limited on that front... I think that’s why I really like OVA’s
I have a feeling I'm going to feel pretty much the same thing as you Dan, when ever I get around to trying to watch the original series - I've only ever seen the first redo movie 1.11 and never felt the desire to go any further with Evangelion after that. I think that at least that first part of Eva is just way too mecha-oriented for me to get into, because I just am not a fan of mecha itself at all. There are lots of mecha anime I do enjoy, if the story is interesting enough for me to get involved with, I just could do without the silly giant robot parts of those stories. But Eva just seemed to turn me off right from the get-go, for some reason. I'll probably still buy the Blu-ray set whenever it releases, just to have it in my collection, but I wonder if I will ever be able to watch it, let alone complete it.
Geriatric hedgehog
Death Scythe
Oh dear, that's a shame. I agree with Neil.T, chances are you won't like a fair part of it here on as it does become a lot more introspective, though I wouldn't say it's without action. That is actually what I love most about Eva heh. Also agree that if you could manage maybe gradually, it would certainly be worth it to watch the first half of EoE,
I also found Asuka very irritating initially on first watch, until near the end where her insecurities are explained in the last quarter or so. From there I thought she was a really well written and fascinating character
Ah, I just saw this heh
I think and hope that it may just be worth trying!
That's the thing about Eva, it has a bit of everything and knowing your preference for drama and characterisation I think you may like too Girls with Guns, but I agree it's not for everyone. I liked it on first watch, despite having very mixed feelings after EoE though it's one of those series I felt compelled to watch again and again and I guess it's obvious now that for me this is the epitome of the art form.
Cloudstrife7894
Dandy Guy, in Space
With the recent announcement of Evangelion 3.0+1.0's runtime being leaked on the Eirin database, I decided to round up what were the longest anime movies. After spending hours on databases, here is the list of the top ten longest anime movies. 3.0+1.0 is the fourth longest behind Disappearance of Haruhi, Final Yamato and the Extended Cut of In This Corner of the World.
@MD_Prometh:
Thanks loads for posting that, dude! That news hadn't reached me yet.
A 2-hour, 34-minute running time? That's a hugely exciting prospect. Great research!
Thanks loads for posting that, dude! That news hadn't reached me yet.
A 2-hour, 34-minute running time? That's a hugely exciting prospect. Great research!
Cloudstrife7894
Dandy Guy, in Space
@Neil.T Glad you appreciate the research. Took me quite a few hours searching through databases like MAL. It's interesting that the US only has two animated features that last over 2 hours, while Japan has over 60.
I'm personally hoping that they can show 3.0+1.0 at Scotland Loves Anime this year if it's safe to travel. If they do a marathon of the whole Rebuild series, then I'll definitely go.
I'm personally hoping that they can show 3.0+1.0 at Scotland Loves Anime this year if it's safe to travel. If they do a marathon of the whole Rebuild series, then I'll definitely go.
RadFemHedonist
Railgun
MD_Prometh I really appreciate the research too! 
Oh, I do! It's a very interesting topic.
I'd read some fan speculation that Anno might attempt to make something for Rebuild's conclusion that had a running time along the lines of Final Yamato, and your list proves that to have been on the money.
I would dearly, dearly love that too. I've been anticipating this film ever since I saw 3.0 at Glasgow Film Theatre in 2013. At one point in time I'd even secretly hoped that the finale might be screened at SLA 2020, but sadly 2020 put paid to that.
Is it still too optimistic to hope for late 2021? I'll quietly hope that it's not.
I posted some thoughts on @Lordhippos' views on Eva versus Darling in the FranXX in the Miscellaneous mecha thread...
... but there's something else I wanted to cover here:
The reason for the tragedy having a direct influence on Evangelion's plot can be seen in the first image in the above Wikipedia article. The picture shows police raiding a facility belonging to the perpetrators, just as the military were planned to storm NERV's headquarters in the show. The implications were clear: if Gainax were to make the episode as originally intended (given that the characters in the show work at NERV), they might end up branded as Aum Shinrikyo sympathisers at worst or, at best, TV Tokyo would simply refuse to air the episode without censorship. With the passage of two years, the original story idea would finally be depicted in The End of Evangelion, but until that opportunity Gainax were suddenly faced with having to find a workaround at short notice.
Budget constraints must have surely been a major factor as well, though, because the conclusion described in the original series proposal, a final battle involving the "strongest 12" of the 28 Angels and the failure of the Human Instrumentality Project following their descent from the moon, wasn't used either. That said, it also wasn't used in EoE.
Some details of that original proposal are here:
[under the heading "Production"]
Miscellaneous mecha discussion thread
So, in the case of mecha too, the robot conflict is often to quite a large degree a vehicle to tell the real story that the writers want to tell. 👍 Yeah mecha is almost more so a medium to tell different genres in than a classic genre in of itself. Though I think a lot I'd media is going that...
forums.animeuknews.net
The budget problems of Neon Genesis Evangelion are indeed well-documented, but there was actually another major factor that forced Gainax's hand into altering the content of the story, leading to the last two episodes becoming something very different from what was originally planned. That factor was the 1995 sarin gas attack on Tokyo's subway system:
Tokyo subway sarin attack - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
The reason for the tragedy having a direct influence on Evangelion's plot can be seen in the first image in the above Wikipedia article. The picture shows police raiding a facility belonging to the perpetrators, just as the military were planned to storm NERV's headquarters in the show. The implications were clear: if Gainax were to make the episode as originally intended (given that the characters in the show work at NERV), they might end up branded as Aum Shinrikyo sympathisers at worst or, at best, TV Tokyo would simply refuse to air the episode without censorship. With the passage of two years, the original story idea would finally be depicted in The End of Evangelion, but until that opportunity Gainax were suddenly faced with having to find a workaround at short notice.
Budget constraints must have surely been a major factor as well, though, because the conclusion described in the original series proposal, a final battle involving the "strongest 12" of the 28 Angels and the failure of the Human Instrumentality Project following their descent from the moon, wasn't used either. That said, it also wasn't used in EoE.
Some details of that original proposal are here:
Neon Genesis Evangelion - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Cloudstrife7894
Dandy Guy, in Space
@Neil.T From what I've read, the budget stuff is a fabrication that has been reinforced by ANN. The source of the rumour comes from a 90s fanzine, which didn't indicate the source. From what I've gathered, it's more likely scheduling issues than anything. The commentary for EOE has one person going "they ran out of paint", yet episodes 25 and 26 have some of the best animation in the entire show.
I know that episode 26 was produced in 4 days, which is nuts.
Hideaki Anno x Kazuo Koike (October 22 2013) - EvaGeeks.org Forum - an Evangelion Fan Community
A forum for discussing the filmmakers and artists associated with Khara, Trigger, or Gainax, but apart from their studio projects.,Hideaki Anno x Kazuo Koike (October 22 2013), discussion of neon genesis evangelion
forum.evageeks.org
I know that episode 26 was produced in 4 days, which is nuts.
Lordhippos
Death Scythe
Speaking as a first-time viewer on NGE, I found the last 2 episodes felt like a bit of a cop-out, I was sat there wondering what I had just watched and why I'd watched it honestly.
Some people seem to love the last 2 episodes though, so I appreciate this is a personal taste thing. For me I think it's partially that I don't like episodes of shows where they explain it away as "it was a dream" or "they're on an acid trip" or things like that. Feels like filler to me in those circumstances.
EOE was a much better end to the show, and it went a long way to fixing the ending of the original series. After watching EOE I did some reading about events I had questions on, and only then did I feel I kind of understood it.
Some people seem to love the last 2 episodes though, so I appreciate this is a personal taste thing. For me I think it's partially that I don't like episodes of shows where they explain it away as "it was a dream" or "they're on an acid trip" or things like that. Feels like filler to me in those circumstances.
EOE was a much better end to the show, and it went a long way to fixing the ending of the original series. After watching EOE I did some reading about events I had questions on, and only then did I feel I kind of understood it.
I've not even mentioned the Rebuild films, even though I enjoyed the main show + EOE, I honestly could have just skipped the Rebuild films, or at least waited a while before watching them after seeing old NGE series.
Originally I thought they were just a re-telling of the main story with updated effects/artwork and a more coherent approach, but as it turns out they were telling a totally different story set in the same starting scenario as the original show.
Friend of mine said it's a multi-verse and a different timeline or something, but that just seems too convenient to me. I didn't really need a 2nd version of the story to appreciate it, but I am a canon story kind of person, and alternates/spin offs aren't my jam.
Originally I thought they were just a re-telling of the main story with updated effects/artwork and a more coherent approach, but as it turns out they were telling a totally different story set in the same starting scenario as the original show.
Friend of mine said it's a multi-verse and a different timeline or something, but that just seems too convenient to me. I didn't really need a 2nd version of the story to appreciate it, but I am a canon story kind of person, and alternates/spin offs aren't my jam.
Geriatric hedgehog
Death Scythe
Fascinating, I had no idea and it does make a lot of sense looking at the photo.
I wonder if, like in my case, a lot of people had the retrospective luxury of watching EoE straight after the original series' last two episodes. I'm not sure how I would've felt watching those two without having EoE after, but assume I would probably have been a wee bit pissed as well heh.
Dai
Dragon Knight
I was furious the first time I saw the TV ending. I can't remember if the VHS release was one volume every one or two months, but it was a long wait at 2 episodes per volume, and not cheap at £14 per tape. Having that last volume completely fail to resolve any plot points from the series, aside from Shinji learning to like himself, drove me up the wall.
End of Eva never had a VHS release in the UK, so it was several years before the DVD came out here. I think the people who defend the TV ending are speaking from the position of having seen both, so they at least found out what was supposed to happen after episode 24. Whatever character arc merits it may have, the TV ending just doesn't work in isolation.
RadFemHedonist
Railgun
I agree, even though I like EoE artistically I really appreciated the TV series' ending
Interestingly one of the first anime series I watched that really got me into it was Anno's own His and Her Circumstances/Kare Kano, so for me Evangelion was not just enjoyable in it's own right but a fascinating point of comparison in terms of it's psychological direction style I've also seen Gunbuster (and Gunbuster 2 which I also enjoyed but I know Anno didn't direct that) and Nadia the Secret of Blue Water and I really enjoyed both of those as well, but I think I saw them after Evangelion, not completely sure though I keep meaning to read the Kare Kano manga as well (I have all 21 volumes of the Tokyopop singles release), hopefully one day. Getting back on track, I'm really glad that Eva TV gave a happy ending for Shinji who is a good boy must protecc. I am sooo stoked for the Blu-ray release in the UK of this series will be lovely to rewatch it in HD. I dunno if I mentioned but my most treasured anime DVD release is the full set of Platinum singles with slipcovers and box and booklets. I need to rewatch this show!!! Maybe I'll pop the DVDs in today and come back with more complex thoughts on it... (also sorry if I repeated myself honestly I'm having a pretty difficult time rn with things unrelated to this forum and my brain's a bit melted).
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
End of Evangelion is hopeful in a different way he chooses life and people can return if they choose to as shown by Asuka’s return. Hence why people think it’s a cyclical timeline (and Rebuilds will break the cycle)
I mean why is the water red in 1.11??
maybe I do love 25 and 26 because I could watch end of Eva the next day. But like KareKano I don’t want a sequel of that (thanks the manga) but ending at 19 (because the popsicle episode is iconic) still feels complete and is it a “good” ending no but I still feel complete and I could feel that way about Eva at 26. But now we have a retelling that could get more complex than End of Eva at these trailers rate.
I mean why is the water red in 1.11??
maybe I do love 25 and 26 because I could watch end of Eva the next day. But like KareKano I don’t want a sequel of that (thanks the manga) but ending at 19 (because the popsicle episode is iconic) still feels complete and is it a “good” ending no but I still feel complete and I could feel that way about Eva at 26. But now we have a retelling that could get more complex than End of Eva at these trailers rate.
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