The Evangelion thread

Neil.T

Railgun
This is a general-purpose thread for discussing all things Evangelion. :)


I'd like to kick things off with...

A year on from Manga's UK release of Evangelion 3.33, are there any little details you continue to notice about the film or Rebuild in general?

For me, it took a while to tune into a subtlety in the scene in 3.33 where Shinji is playing Shogi with Fuyutsuki. Fuyutsuki tells Shinji he has checkmate against him, and Shinji grimaces. But he is not grimacing because he has lost the game: it's because Fuyutsuki describes the checkmate against Shinji as being Shinji's tsumi.

You see, in the earlier scene where Kaworu shows Shinji the state of the world post-Third Impact, Kaworu places the blame on him, calling it Shinji's "sin". The word Kaworu uses is tsumi.

So, in the shogi scene, Shinji grimaces because he is recalling Kaworu's words. Very subtle! :)
 
Last edited:

Rosencrantz

Dragon Knight
I'll be honest, while I re-watched 1.11, 2.22 had kinda gone off in a slightly odd direction and I didn't find time to re-watch it and then 3.33 has pretty much killed my interest.

However the point you make about noticing things applies to many shows. Subtle glances or gestures can mean so much more on 2nd or 3rd viewings. A characters words or actions can be viewed totally differently. I particularly like it when a show doesn't feel the need to flash back in some way to demonstrate this and instead lets the viewer draw the conclusion.
 

Neil.T

Railgun
Thanks for the reply, @Rosencrantz! :D

I totally hear what you're saying about Rebuild. My own current opinion is that Rebuild has probably gone off the rails now. I mean, personally, I really like 2.22. I'm kind of ambivalent about 3.33, though. I feel like I do enjoy it overall, but at the same time I accept that it plays out basically like a showcase of intricate but self-indulgent design work, and as a slideshow of the weird and disturbing images that director Hideaki Anno wanted to depict. The actual "plot" that stitches these together is problematic, though, with nagging inconsistencies and a mountain of unanswered questions. I'd love to believe that the final film can turn it around, but even its awkward title of Evangelion 3.0+1.0 doesn't bode well!

Still, looking for ways to try to tie some of the weirdness in 3.33 to some kind of coherent story, I did ponder this [CONTAINS SPOILERS!]:

Was the 12th Angel the Mark.06's blood?

Or, rather, was the Mark.06's blood made from the core of the 12th Angel? I noticed that in 3.33, when Shinji's display warns of the 12th Angel, the most prominent thing on screen is: Blood Type. The very next shot is of the Mark.06's visor, with what looks like red blood cells bouncing around behind.

This would tie in with a shot at the end of 1.11 that shows the Mark.06 under construction. It has a drip hooked up to its left arm as if it's being given a blood transfusion.

Did SEELE deliver the Mark.06 with the "final" Angel already inside, just as they sent Kaworu as the "final messenger" in Neon Genesis Evangelion?
 
Last edited:

Neil.T

Railgun
The film "The End of Evangelion" is exactly that: it ties up the story, and actually replaces episodes 25 and 26.
While they’re certainly alternate I’m not sure I like the word “replace”, personally.
I'll kick this one off, then, shall I? :)

It's difficult to square how both interpretations could occur within the same storyline. Therefore, End of Eva must have to replace the events of TV episodes 25 and 26 — much like how significant parts of the second Gurren Lagann movie (also by Gainax) "overwrite" what we see in that series.

Anyone else care to wade in? :)
 

thedoctor2016

Diclonius
It’s easy in mind it’s what happens to Shinji when he undergoes inustrumentality after EVA 01 becomes the tree of life as he does see Misato dead and Eva 02 underwater which occurs in 25’. The journey he undergoes leads him to reject it, in my mind anyway.
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
You noticed that about 3.33 as well, eh? 😆
Funny that. You'd almost think... 😏


(That emoticon of yours is flipping hilarious, by the way. 😛)
I've always maintained that 3.33 would have made a great fourth film in the franchise. A film without Shinji that explored the events of what happened between 2.22 and 3.33 that ended with the opening scene of 3.33 would've been great.
 

Patient-X

Mad Scientist
I've always maintained that 3.33 would have made a great fourth film in the franchise. A film without Shinji that explored the events of what happened between 2.22 and 3.33 that ended with the opening scene of 3.33 would've been great.
I think 3.33 could have been a great film in some franchise, but I've no idea which one 😊
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Ooh, right. *cracks knuckles*
It's difficult to square how both interpretations could occur within the same storyline. Therefore, End of Eva must have to replace the events of TV episodes 25 and 26 — much like how significant parts of the second Gurren Lagann movie (also by Gainax) "overwrite" what we see in that series.
I agree in part with doc's reading - From what I remember at least (it has been a while since I last watched it so feel free to correct me) there's no reason episodes 25 & 26 couldn't have occurred inside Shinji's own mind while the events of EoE played out outside. But I think the endings specifically are too contradictory to be reconciled with one another.

Actually gimme a sec, I'm gonna watch EoE again.
 

Neil.T

Railgun
I do feel 3.0+1.0 could save it. Won’t be easy but could save it.
It really won't be easy, but I'm sure as hell rooting for it. I'm a bit concerned, though, story-wise, that there already seems to be potential contradictions within Rebuild, particularly surrounding what actually happened with Third Impact. As @IncendiaryLemon suggests, there's enough room for a whole film to fill in some blanks there, possibly even for a TV series or two.

I doubt very much that most of the mysteries in Rebuild will even get explained come the end. For example, what did Kaworu mean when he looked at Gendo and said "Pleased to meet you... father"?

I think there's also a lot of random visual stuff in Rebuild that simply doesn't even relate to the actual story, or is even trying to cover for the lack of one, especially in 3.33.

And yet, I still really like that film! 😅
 
Last edited:

HWR

Symphogear
AUKN Staff
Certainly an interesting aim at discussion, most Eva related debates I’ve seen devolve into Waifu wars.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Right, scratch that, doc is right, it's entirely possible that even the TV ending happens within EoE - Shinji asks Rei "Where is my reality?" and she replies "It is at the end of your dream" which leads directly into Shinji waking up and her explanation of where they are/what instrumentality is. That could certainly be seen as the point where the TV show ends and EoE takes over.

Still, I see the end of EoE more as an alternate ending than a replacement - I think both have their merits but display different attitudes towards the same idea. Thematically, Eva is largely about depression (with an extra large helping of Freudian psychology) and both endings are about letting go of the baggage life has saddled you with and escaping from despair - In the TV ending, instrumentality is symbolic of Shinji learning to love himself and accept the love of others. It's a utopian vision, with all the characters coming together (quite literally) to create what is, essentially, heaven.

EoE however has Shinji coming to a very different conclusion - Leaving the past and everyone else behind completely and going it alone. In this respect, the ending of EoE is a much more individualist one for Shinji (and for Asuka) and on the positive side certainly paints them both as incredibly strong willed, turning their back on the sense of safety and security instrumentality offered to instead live for themselves. The last part of the film is full of inspirational messages on that theme but after all that, we find it's a much more uncertain and potentially dystopian future that awaits Shinji and Asuka - The world they find themselves in is certainly not heaven, and might it arguably be, or become, a hell for them? They've escaped, they've made a decision for themselves, but have they actually overcome their issues? Did they really learn anything? Or have they just run away again?

More thoughts later, maybe. Also Asuka a best.
 
Top