Relationships and Romance

[Captaaainuniverse]

This sounds like an idea I should look into...

too bad he didn't say to who

 

[D1tchd1gger]

too bad he didn't say to who

Yeah, don't accidentally marry an Elvis impersonater!

 

[Phobos]

too bad he didn't say to who

Bad @Captaaainuniverse! BAD!!

 

[HWR]

Yeah, don't accidentally marry an Elvis impersonater!

Could end up with one as the priest

 

[Rui]

I have moved some of the random horniness back into General Conversation where it belonged ;p

I've been happily married for ten years, so I'll give my opinion on that topic. I don't think it's necessary and in some cases it seems to mess relationships up by adding pressure and turning the entire wedding into a performative spectacle nobody can possible enjoy. However, I like forcing society to admit that I'm the most important person in my partner's life (and vice versa) and I do like sharing a name, though the idea that a woman is a lesser partner would have been a dealbreaker if it ever came up.

The wedding industry is utterly ridiculous and I could never have gone through with an ordinary one, so we had a quiet celebration with a few custom rules.

- Didn't bother with a hen party. The best man let me join them (our mutual circle of friends) to watch a musical instead then they went paintballing without me to attempt to have some manly bonding component of their 'stag do'. Everyone was back home in time for tea. No drama, no strippers, no drinking, no stress. It's become a modern commercialised 'tradition' with no meaning anyway. There's no need to fly off abroad and get into trouble away from the person you're already living with in the first place!

- Didn't invite relatives we don't like. We paid for our wedding and I'm on bad terms with half of my extended family after challenging them on being racist towards the other half, so anyone who wasn't worth having there could stay home. We picked a small venue in an annoying place on purpose to make it clear they couldn't come. This meant the ratio of guests was something like 50% friends, 40% my partner's relatives and 10% my family, but since we didn't segregate people it wasn't noticeable.

- Had a civil marriage ceremony despite being from a religious background because I am not religious. After the way that religion has been aggressively weaponised to oppress people who want to get married in the years since, I am glad that we did this. It was also pretty great because the hardcore religious relatives I fell out with didn't want to come any more when they found out.

- Picked and chose random traditions that seemed cool. The only thing that was actually important was the 20 minutes of vows (which we were encouraged by the very pro-equality registrar to write or edit ourselves). Everything else was just a party. I hate parties so I mostly hid in the hotel room in the same building and let everyone else socialise and come to see me one by one. They're my friends and family so they know how I am. My partner is more sociable than I am so everyone was looked after.

- Told everyone to dress however they wanted, especially fancy dress, because I hate wearing formal wear and I didn't want photos of a bunch of dudes in identical suits. Everyone came in fancy dress except my brother who then told everyone he was dressed up as James Bond. It was funny and because everyone was so preoccupied with their own costumes and the silliness the atmosphere was relaxed and I didn't feel as special. Score. What made that (completely random) idea even better is that years later I still have conversations with my dad where he refers to his lesser-known friends or in-laws by what they were wearing at our wedding.

We are super unromantic (we don't even celebrate our anniversary) but I don't regret getting married. Everyone has to find something that works for them. I'm sure a lot of people would have found our wedding ghastly, and that's ok. Their opinions can't harm our relationship.

R

 

[Umiko]

I guess there is a bit of delay in me replying due to the heat - how is it this warm gone 11pm midnight 2am already? ;_;

Lets see if I can do this without letting this draft fester with me for hours on end and to be honest I have failed on this front. Given the 2-3 hours I've festered on it and trying not to repeat myself from what I've said in the "GenCon" thread there's isn't honestly much else constructively to add. @_@;

@~AyaMachi~ mentioned about hand-fasting which I honestly wasn't aware of as being a Celtic thing (as I consider myself Cornish I should be aware of it ). (Too lazy to reorganise this with a quote, I'm sorry)

To me, I can't have a meaningful relationship without a meaningful friendship.

Couldn't be said any more truer. (Funnily enough someone elsewhere posted something similar to that roughly around the same time).

Going back to about 9/10 months ago I had a crush on someone and we went on holiday with said person and someone else... I honestly felt like a third wheel. I began to accept that it wasn't going to go anywhere and it felt like it was properly reinforced when I asked if we wanted to do something together but said person turned out to be busy all the time. I had enough of asking and (with advice from at least 3 people I trust who said nearly the same thing between them) moved on.

I suppose the one good thing is since this is the 4th(?) time I've had my fingers burnt trying it's getting easier to move on when it goes wrong.

/umiko

 

[Deleted member 4555]

So basically; everything about Neil?

Yes, everything about Neil

 

[Deleted member 4555]

To bring us slightly back on topic and because I wanted to reply to this even though it was two pages ago...



This pretty much sums up my feelings on marriage as well to be honest. Although me and my partner have been engaged for going on three years now I've been stalling on the idea of a wedding for awhile (not that he minds) simply because I can't really be bothered with the social aspect of it. If I had it my way I wouldn't have anyone but me and him present, but then you run into the problem of needing someone to witness it, so we'd probably end end up inviting his mum at least (who I get on with fine) and then I'd want someone on my side and then when does it stop? ;_; Not helped by the fact I am not on speaking terms with any of my family, so I'd invite my closest friends but even then I hate being the centre of attention too so the whole reception idea just makes me cry inside and run for the hills.

At some point we'll need up going through with it just for more boring practical reasons, but I guess I'm happy where we are right now. I used to really like the idea of getting married, too, but as I got older I guess I thought about it more realistically and about all the hassle that came with it and decided the idea sounds like it'll melt my brain. Even though it was even me who proposed to him, I realise that I just wanted a bit more commitment (not that either of us weren't!) and so for now I guess my heart is content.

This is a really interesting topic btw so I'm glad it was brought up. ^^

Yeah, that's one of the things I wish wasn't necessary - a witness. I kind of wish a cat could count as a witness or something

I've never enjoyed ceremonies. I went to my graduation back in 2008 against my will only because my Mum emotionally blackmailed me into doing it and I relented. I hated it! Whilst I get on with my folks, we have an...odd dynamic, and in terms of values, principles and general outlook on life, we're like chalk and cheese. We live under the same roof and yet we don't communicate with each other. I've never been family oriented and whilst I respect people who are, I would need to be with someone who understands my stance on family.

The idea of wearing a fancy bride's dress doesn't appeal to me. I don't usually wear dresses anyway; I'm a bit of a tomboy. I did used to have this light, floaty, flowery dress, totally casual. It dipped long at the back, but it was shorter at the front. If I could get away with wearing something like that, but with say, a pair of clunky ankle boots, I would!

Regarding the practicalities, I never thought they really applied to me. I mean, I'm someone who has no money - I have no savings or assets, and I have a £13,000 student loan debt, and I used to worry about entering into a relationship, even without marriage, in case something happened to me and any potential partner got lumbered with the debt. So, if anyone was thinking of marrying me just for money I'm sorry to say they'll be hugely disappointed

I personally couldn't be doing with the organising of something like that - all the stress and hassle, for one big day. Even @Neil.T agreed when we were talking about this topic briefly once over the phone; so many couples start their married lives off in debt, because they insist on spending utterly stupid amounts on their "big day", and it's true! Why the need to spend so much on one day? You're spending (hopefully) the rest of your life with that person!

Regarding the last part of your paragraph @Demelza , I think that's the important thing, that both of you are happy with where you're at right now. There's no sense in rushing things along for the sake of it, and there's plenty of time. Also, major props for you being the one to propose, that's... *claps* ^^

Many congrats to you, I wish both of you the best

 

[Deleted member 4555]

@Rui you gave us a lovely insight to your personal experience, so thank you ^^ I must agree the wedding industry to me is absolutely ludicrous; the amount of money thrown around for me is just...needless. But not only that, the amount of things out there that people actually believe that you need all for one day. It's no wonder people get into so much debt! Needless!

So, I might as well throw in a part II to the original question, what do you folks believe is the key to a happy relationship/marriage? What kind of things do you think makes a committed relationship stand the test of time?

Personally, in no order of importance, here are some things I consider to be most important:

Honesty - I physically am incapable of telling a lie so, it's something I place real value on. Being genuine too; just, be "you" - your truest self - your partner loves you for a reason and whilst we all have flaws, they love you in spite of those! No one's perfect ^^

Communication - I firmly believe that this is a lost art these days and if you can't communicate openly and honestly in the most frank way with your partner, then why even bother? It'll never work! Being able to bear your soul in the most honest way; to be able to convey your feelings across in a way that's...genuine and raw, that's super important to me!

Support/Cheerleading - you may well have lots of similarities but, you're going to have differences as well. I think, so long as your values and principles line up, you can have differences in hobbies and interests and still get on. So long as you're respectful of what your partner loves. Understand that it's something special and important to them, even if it's not so much to you. Get on board with them, let them know that them being happy makes you happy Be encouraging!

A solid friendship - I touched on this before but, it's so true for me. Having a dynamic that is deeply rooted in a solid friendship. For me, I'd love for people on the outside to look at me and my partner and just think, "wow, they've got a real connection there. There's trust, security, and respect", and I genuinely don't believe that this can be achieved without a proper friendship. I need to know I can...take the rise out of my partner, and know that he just...gets it - that he understands my goofy humour Being able to get as good as you give. It's part of building trust and feeling totally at ease!

Have principles/morals - super important to me. I consider myself to be full of principle, and I have values that are important to me. I think when you connect on that level then it's really special. To know that your partner has things that they feel strongly and passionate about and to be able to respect that.

Security - having the confidence to know that you're individuals as well as a unit. I don't personally think co-dependency is healthy, and clingyness in a way that's actually detrimental to the relationship is no good. Respecting the need for space, and the need to do your own thing. I'd have no issues in going off and say, doing some art if my partner wanted to watch a DVD or read a magazine or something...when you're confident in yourselves, you're confident in each other. Being...secure with other people too, like, not being posessive. Trusting your partner and not getting jealous just because they're interacting with someone of the opposite sex. I'm a friendly and open person and I talk to anyone, so for my partner to feel safe and secure is important.

Complacency - NOT settling into a groove and taking the other for granted! I think we're all guilty of it at certain points, but it should never become habit. If you feel like it's happening, you need to do something about it. I personally feel that little reminders to your partner, something like, "I really appreciate having you in my life" can really make a difference, especially if it's said out of the blue. I don't believe in resting on my laurels; you have to work continually to keep the relationship strong. Taking a step back with a sense of perspective and just...appreciating how happy you are I appreciate the simple things and I consider myself to be humble by nature; I don't need fancy things in life.

Phew! There ^^

(Forgive my wording sometimes I don't explain things very well)

 

[Demelza]

Yeah, that's one of the things I wish wasn't necessary - a witness. I kind of wish a cat could count as a witness or something

That would be great! We could just have our bunny there and stick his paw-print down as proof and it'd all be fine. Much cheaper than inviting people or relaying on good will, too, just throw him a strawberry and he'll be well pleased.

The idea of wearing a fancy bride's dress doesn't appeal to me. I don't usually wear dresses anyway; I'm a bit of a tomboy. I did used to have this light, floaty, flowery dress, totally casual. It dipped long at the back, but it was shorter at the front. If I could get away with wearing something like that, but with say, a pair of clunky ankle boots, I would!

Ugh dresses. I'm not really sure why I hate them/skirts so much, but it's almost certainly a byproduct of being forced into wearing them as a child until I was at an age where I just cheerfully refused. You'd have to bribe me with quite a lot of money to see me in anything like it now, I'm much happier in a t-shirt and trousers of some kind. I do kinda like the idea of a fancy (but inexpensive) suit for when we do someday get married. Maybe a nice waistcoat or something.

I personally couldn't be doing with the organising of something like that - all the stress and hassle, for one big day. Even @Neil.T agreed when we were talking about this topic briefly once over the phone; so many couples start their married lives off in debt, because they insist on spending utterly stupid amounts on their "big day", and it's true! Why the need to spend so much on one day? You're spending (hopefully) the rest of your life with that person!

It truly boggles the mind, especially when the kind of money that some people spend could be spent towards getting a house or something else that would be longer lasting than that one day. Although I guess if it means that much to them then who are we to complain...

Also, major props for you being the one to propose, that's... *claps* ^^

Many congrats to you, I wish both of you the best

I'm glad I was the one who did in the end because it had the handy side affect of meaning we both have rings! It feels fairer than the usual situation where the guy proposes and has nothing to show for it except for a hole in his bank account and an otherwise happy (former) girlfriend. At least the whole thing went better than when I originally told him I liked him/asked him out many years ago and his phone lost the text I confessed in. The universe had something against me that day. ;_;

Also reading through Rui's post I really like some of the rules you two imposed on the whole thing. I definitely think it's the type of thing more people should do rather than just going with the flow of what's expected. I'm sure when the time comes we'll definitely be doing so and at the very least we've already talked about the fact that no one should be forced to dress up in formal wear if they don't want to! Least not because his younger brothers would be horrified by the concept.

So, I might as well throw in a part II to the original question, what do you folks believe is the key to a happy relationship/marriage? What kind of things do you think makes a committed relationship stand the test of time?

I think it's about the obvious things like respect and getting on with each other well as friends. People say you should share hobbies, but I'm not sure that always matters. Some of ours overlap but a lot don't and that's worked out just fine for us because on a base level we get on well enough that even just idle chit chat is meaningful.

I also think the thing a lot of people overlook is talking about the future so where they want to live, pets, kids etc. We've always been pretty clear that neither of us want children, but I love animals so always want to have a pet or three. If he hadn't been okay with that it would have been a massive deal breaker (it turned out he was unfussed beforehand, which meant I could have whatever provided I looked after it, and then after owning our first pet he fell in love with the idea - so it worked out remarkably well!). Even then I think it's important that people just listen to each other and maybe make compromises if they make sense to. To me those are the kind of things that are important. ^^

 

[Phobos]

Hmm good question on what makes a long term relationship work I guess the over simplified answer would have to be respect on both sides. I ultimately feel that most problems occur when the respect from one side, or both disappear. As an example; (real life one, not mine though) one side decides to start drinking regularly if an evening so the other side decides to go to bed extremely early every day. The respect disappeared and then the relationship suffered and fell apart.

Clearly that’s all an over simplification, there’s a lot more factors involved. Communication is another great thing, as long as it’s done in the right way. If you can’t/won’t express your thoughts on something odds are it either won’t go your way or you’ll feel like you’re forced into most situations, this can range from simply not feeling up to going out somewhere one day to things like moving house or extensive changes to your home. You need to communicate and ensure both parties are satisfied.

 

[Deleted member 4555]

That would be great! We could just have our bunny there and stick his paw-print down as proof and it'd all be fine. Much cheaper than inviting people or relaying on good will, too, just throw him a strawberry and he'll be well pleased.

Ugh dresses. I'm not really sure why I hate them/skirts so much, but it's almost certainly a byproduct of being forced into wearing them as a child until I was at an age where I just cheerfully refused. You'd have to bribe me with quite a lot of money to see me in anything like it now, I'm much happier in a t-shirt and trousers of some kind. I do kinda like the idea of a fancy (but inexpensive) suit for when we do someday get married. Maybe a nice waistcoat or something.

Skirts I just can't get on board with, but dresses? It...depends on the style. I'm usually in leggings/jeans and men's t shirts, because that's what I feel most comfortable in, but...yeah, the idea of a special occasion dress just doesn't appeal. They look so uncomfortable and stifling!

I'm glad I was the one who did in the end because it had the handy side affect of meaning we both have rings! It feels fairer than the usual situation where the guy proposes and has nothing to show for it except for a hole in his bank account and an otherwise happy (former) girlfriend.

Wow, I never even considered that, of course! That's really sweet ^^

At least the whole thing went better than when I originally told him I liked him/asked him out many years ago and his phone lost the text I confessed in. The universe had something against me that day. ;_;

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!!

We've always been pretty clear that neither of us want children, but I love animals so always want to have a pet or three. If he hadn't been okay with that it would have been a massive deal breaker (it turned out he was unfussed beforehand, which meant I could have whatever provided I looked after it, and then after owning our first pet he fell in love with the idea - so it worked out remarkably well!).

Totally, it's always handy when you're already on the same page about the big stuff like that, because it's something you can't compromise on, but you're right, where it makes sense to, you try your best to meet half way! It's got to be win-win, not win-lose/ lose-win!

 

[Deleted member 4555]

Communication is another great thing, as long as it’s done in the right way.

This is so true. There's communicating openly and honestly in a way that you know is genuine, and then there's doing it in a way that just...isn't comming across. There's dangers of things becoming misinterpreted if it's not done right. Even my owm parents do it. My Dad will say something in a jokey way to my Mum, and because he's saying it in a snarky way, she just laughs it off, but he's actually lacing the comment with a home truth that he just can't be direct about, He seems to think that by glossing it over with a humerous tone, it'll get the point across. It...really doesn't, and I have no respect for that! I'm glad I've broken away from their own habits and influences in that regard...

 

[Phobos]

In regards to weddings I can’t say the classic white dress and tux does much for me. I think I’d rather have something a bit different, exactly what that would be I don’t know. I may be engaged but the wedding if it’s ever going to happen is far off. I’d probably go more down a medieval or gothic type of route. Maybe a blend of both. Either way I don’t get why the white dress and tux are so popular, I totally dig the guests dress as they want especially fancy dress thing @Rui mentioned. That seems more up my street.

 

[Phobos]

This is so true. There's communicating openly and honestly in a way that you know is genuine, and then there's doing it in a way that just...isn't comming across. There's dangers of things becoming misinterpreted if it's not done right. Even my owm parents do it. My Dad will say something in a jokey way to my Mum, and because he's saying it in a snarky way, she just laughs it off, but he's actually lacing the comment with a home truth that he just can't be direct about, He seems to think that by glossing it over with a humerous tone, it'll get the point across. It...really doesn't, and I have no respect for that! I'm glad I've broken away from their own habits and influences in that regard...

Yes definitely, if you (general you, not specifically you) have an issue then you should be direct about it. Joking about it makes it seem insignificant, not mentioning it means nothing gets sorted. It could be totally minor like let’s say someone leaves their shoes on the stairs and it bugs you, turn it into a jokey thing and it’s not an issue, ignore it and it becomes a bigger issue for you whilst not being one for whoever, attack aggressively and it creates an even bigger issue on both sides - essentially it ends with both parties feeling wronged, actually getting the other persons attention and explaining why it’s an issue for you - problem potentially solved.

 

[Deleted member 4555]

I like the idea of a medieval/Celtic dress or something, and maybe a kilt/tartan for a man (well, at least if they have Scottish heritage)...

Yes definitely, if you (general you, not specifically you) have an issue then you should be direct about it. Joking about it makes it seem insignificant, not mentioning it means nothing gets sorted. It could be totally minor like let’s say someone leaves their shoes on the stairs and it bugs you, turn it into a jokey thing and it’s not an issue, ignore it and it becomes a bigger issue for you whilst not being one for whoever, attack aggressively and it creates an even bigger issue on both sides - essentially it ends with both parties feeling wronged, actually getting the other persons attention and explaining why it’s an issue for you - problem potentially solved.

This is it - It just builds resentment and bitterness on both sides, and then everything falls by the wayside. You end up snapping at each other and nagging at each other, when things could have just as easily been solved with open communication. It's about being receptive and open.

As a side note to communication I guess, one thing I've had an issue with for the longest time is actually reaching out for help. I've managed for so long on my own with things that I've actually become too "proud" to ask for help, and I instinctively push it away when it's offered. It's a long ingrained habit that I need to work on, but, I think this is something else that's important - don't be afraid to help each other and be constructive in giving any criticisms. Be encouraging, but do so positively. I remember a few weeks ago @Neil.T was helping me write my covering note for the job I applied for. He...didn't stifle me with his helping hand, he was just...really constructive in how he gave pointers. He didn't...force anything, or point out any faults. He asked questions in a constructive way, and offered to help with suggestions. Even then, he didn't force it on me. It was really refreshing from the usual "I must try to fix this" attitude that some men can have. My last ex was one of those, and he'd get upset if he couldn't fix it! Really unhelpful to me!

@Neil.T has also tried helping me with my chess game, but it turns out I'm just **** Again though, just, asking me constructive open-ended questions that...get me to actually think about it from my perspective ^^

 

[Patient-X]

My wedding was a very simple, quiet one. There was only 6 people at it. Me, the ex, her mom and dad, her sister and her fiance who acted as my best man. We got married in Edinburgh in the reception office on the royal mile. The reception was in the whiskey museum followed by a lunch of haggis in a restaurant. We chose Edinburgh because we'd spent a weekend there a year before. When we got back home to the Midlands we had a bit of a party in a pub for friends and the rest of her family. And that was it, nothing elaborate or expensive. The most expense was in fuel for the travel.

The most important thing in a relationship? In my opinion has to be communication, something I learned too late.

 

[Phobos]

I like the idea of a medieval/Celtic dress or something, and maybe a kilt/tartan for a man (well, at least if they have Scottish heritage)...


This is it - It just builds resentment and bitterness on both sides, and then everything falls by the wayside. You end up snapping at each other and nagging at each other, when things could have just as easily been solved with open communication. It's about being receptive and open.

As a side note to communication I guess, one thing I've had an issue with for the longest time is actually reaching out for help. I've managed for so long on my own with things that I've actually become too "proud" to ask for help, and I instinctively push it away when it's offered. It's a long ingrained habit that I need to work on, but, I think this is something else that's important - don't be afraid to help each other and be constructive in giving any criticisms. Be encouraging, but do so positively. I remember a few weeks ago @Neil.T was helping me write my covering note for the job I applied for. He...didn't stifle me with his helping hand, he was just...really constructive in how he gave pointers. He didn't...force anything, or point out any faults. He asked questions in a constructive way, and offered to help with suggestions. Even then, he didn't force it on me. It was really refreshing from the usual "I must try to fix this" attitude that some men can have. My last ex was one of those, and he'd get upset if he couldn't fix it! Really unhelpful to me!

@Neil.T has also tried helping me with my chess game, but it turns out I'm just **** Again though, just, asking me constructive open-ended questions that...get me to actually think about it from my perspective ^^

That imo in some situations can definitely be the best way to help, let’s face it the other person guides but ultimately you end up fixing that kind of stuff yourself. Ultimately it ends up being win win. No one ends up feeling inferior and both parties can feel like they’ve done something.

The “this must be fixed” attitude achieves nothing as far as I am concerned. It harms far more than helps. If one party tries to force “fixes” all the time it just builds to resentment and makes the other person feel inferior, neither of those things are good and both of those things can and regularly do cause their own issues.

I have to admit I also struggle to ask for help, I’ve been in the habit too long of being the person that can handle anything (for the most part I feel that probably is the actual case) however if things crop up I have difficulty with it can be difficult to admit it is causing me an issue. It’s something I’m trying to work on, ultimately I want and respect blunt truths from my partner, they also want the same back so figure I should attempt to be brutally honest at all times. It’s difficult for sure but if I’m asked “what’s up/wrong etc” I’m getting better at answering with more than just a “nothing. I’m fine”

 

[Deleted member 4555]

My wedding was a very simple, quiet one. There was only 6 people at it. Me, the ex, her mom and dad, her sister and her fiance who acted as my best man. We got married in Edinburgh in the reception office on the royal mile. The reception was in the whiskey museum followed by a lunch of haggis in a restaurant. We chose Edinburgh because we'd spent a weekend there a year before. When we got back home to the Midlands we had a bit of a party in a pub for friends and the rest of her family. And that was it, nothing elaborate or expensive. The most expense was in fuel for the travel.

The most important thing in a relationship? In my opinion has to be communication, something I learned too late.

Fair play, sounds just grand dude

We often learn things too little too late, but hey, we're always learning throughout life, that's the beauty of it. We never stop learning! I do really value communication, simply because I'm of the "old skool", and people these days just...don't seem to be doing it enough! It's disheartening when you go out to a restaurant and you see families at a table, and every single one of them are on their devices. We're buried in our phones - young people just...clicking and swiping their screens, not even looking up around them to acknowledge other people's existence.

 

[Phobos]

Fair play, sounds just grand dude

We often learn things too little too late, but hey, we're always learning throughout life, that's the beauty of it. We never stop learning! I do really value communication, simply because I'm of the "old skool", and people these days just...don't seem to be doing it enough! It's disheartening when you go out to a restaurant and you see families at a table, and every single one of them are on their devices. We're buried in our phones - young people just...clicking and swiping their screens, not even looking up around them to acknowledge other people's existence.

I’m similar, if you’re out with someone then they get your attention. It’s about that simple really but you do bring a good point up here in the fact that younger generations seem to be losing the art of communicating. It strikes me that the more old school people can and do talk to each other yet the younger ones talk at each other. If they talk at all.