The Final Fantasy Debate

Really cba to read the last 10 pages, but I'm a big FF fan so I shall still post.

To me, FFX was the turning point in the series of FF games; (not that it wasn't good) there was such a big change in a lot of the in-game systems, changing characters mid-battle, the sphere grid and no world map. Not only that, actual voices instead of just text too. Apart from the world map, I loved it all, but it was a typical change that seems to be happening to everything; it's like, trying to be more up-market, I guess. Take Terminator 3 for exmaple, what the hell was going on with that? For a start, they made it a 12, how can a Terminator be good when it's a 12? I dunno, that point doesn't seem very good, but some will know what I mean! Like Oceans 13, that was so just trying to embrace technology or something, it's like, god, don't be afraid of old ways!

I'm not even gonna mention X-2, it's that bad. Then the change that FFX had taken was simply taken to the next step with FFXII...which ruined the whole series for me. I seen some pictures of the new FF in a magazine in WHSmith actually lol, and apparently it's completely changing or something, I doubt I'll buy it.

My all time favourite would have to be FFI, it's just such a nice game to play through with ease. And of course all the others up to X are great too.

I'm still not sure what to think of FFVIIAC, or Last Order, and Spirits Within isn't even worth mentioning...but I won't waffle on more!
 
BlackWolf said:
Looks like they have just announced the japanese voice cast for the FFIV remake on DS, looks like some good talent there, wonder if this means that future remakes will gain voices as well

Article here: http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/823/823567p1.html
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I really hope they don't add voices to the later ones. With 7 and 8 being my favourite FFs the idea of americans spreading their taint all over that blue text we all know and love......it makes me feel dirty all over.

If they're going to do a remake, here's a funny idea - stick to the original! Dont cock it up with terrible vocal dialogue, "streamlined" menus and "tweaked" combat. A remake is an obvious cash in - don't try and defend yourself by adding in new stuff, thats what new games are for!
 
Nemphtis said:
Casual gamers make up most of the market, and there aren't many casual gamers out there who play RPGs. Final Fantasy is a successful franchise and gets insane sales in Japan, with good sales in the west also. However, although I am repeating myself it is not Sony's trump card because it doesn't cater to most gamers in the way an action game would. I think if anything was to be Sony's trump card right now, it would be Little Big Planet or Killzone 2.
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You think Killzone 2 and LittleBigPlanet will sell better than FFXIII in the West?

In all honesty, that's just wishful thinking on behalf of the people that dislike Final Fantasy. FFXII sold over one million copies in the US, and topped the charts in every single significant European country. Final Fantasy is mainstream. It's hard to believe, but it's true. I know that there were people in every year of my school who were talking about FFXII around the time it was released.

FFXIII is most definately Sony's trump card. If they lose FFXIII, then the other games they have don't collectively warrant it for a lot of people - myself included.

Just look at the sales of Crisis Core on PSP in Japan. Those are amazing sales for a spin-off FF game on PSP.
 
Just to sum it all up, when there's "Final Fantasy" in the title, it will THRASH competitors badly, srsly, and will sell out BETTER than anything.
 
CitizenGeek said:
Nemphtis said:
Casual gamers make up most of the market, and there aren't many casual gamers out there who play RPGs. Final Fantasy is a successful franchise and gets insane sales in Japan, with good sales in the west also. However, although I am repeating myself it is not Sony's trump card because it doesn't cater to most gamers in the way an action game would. I think if anything was to be Sony's trump card right now, it would be Little Big Planet or Killzone 2.
Click to expand...

You think Killzone 2 and LittleBigPlanet will sell better than FFXIII in the West?

In all honesty, that's just wishful thinking on behalf of the people that dislike Final Fantasy. FFXII sold over one million copies in the US, and topped the charts in every single significant European country. Final Fantasy is mainstream. It's hard to believe, but it's true. I know that there were people in every year of my school who were talking about FFXII around the time it was released.

FFXIII is most definately Sony's trump card. If they lose FFXIII, then the other games they have don't collectively warrant it for a lot of people - myself included.

Just look at the sales of Crisis Core on PSP in Japan. Those are amazing sales for a spin-off FF game on PSP.
Click to expand...

PSP sold loads cause of the new slim edition... Maybe FF7: CC helped it out, but it was mainly the slim and lite...

As for FFXIII, I hope it fails. Many people I know who bought FFXII was very disapointed. I have no high hopes for FFXIII, so lets hope it fails this time round.

FF needs to take the sidewalk, like I said, There are more deserving RPGs. Look at SMT, its got a lot of praise more than Final Fantasy by reviewers, and the recent persona 3 just nailed it.

FF can't be on par with the SMT series.
 
Chrono Demon said:
As for FFXIII, I hope it fails. Many people I know who bought FFXII was very disapointed. I have no high hopes for FFXIII, so lets hope it fails this time round.

FF needs to take the sidewalk, like I said, There are more deserving RPGs. Look at SMT, its got a lot of praise more than Final Fantasy by reviewers, and the recent persona 3 just nailed it.

FF can't be on par with the SMT series.
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The only people disapointed with final fantasy 12 were diehard rpg fans,we knew what we liked and square did something different to any other person with an interest in a broad range of games most likely really enjoyed it.
It had a sci fi setting with an mmorpg battle system and te honest or though to us the characters were plastic most people thought hey baltheir looks cool or cool i like the bunny girl with big jugs.
Not to mention it's very western feeling because to a lot of people the whole Japanese feel really doesn't feel well.
To a die hard rpg fan or huge ff fan the game seems like a huge sell out to it's origins,to every other person it's probably a fricking sweet game.
 
Chrono Demon said:
PSP sold loads cause of the new slim edition... Maybe FF7: CC helped it out, but it was mainly the slim and lite...
Click to expand...

I was talking about sales of the game (I'm sorry, but d'uh!). And in any case, the first week of the PSP Slim & Lite, about 80,000 PSPs were sold, and 76,000 or so of those were the CC special edition PSPs, so saying CC only had a little to do with the PSP toppling the seemingly invincible DS is streching it a bit.

As for FFXIII, I hope it fails. Many people I know who bought FFXII was very disapointed. I have no high hopes for FFXIII, so lets hope it fails this time round.
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The only people that were disapointed with FFXII were the people who play FF soley for the story. The people who want bishoenen men and women in revealing outfits. The people who twist and warp FF in countless pieces of artwork and absurd fanfiction. In other words, the people who aren't actually fans of Final Fantasy, more fans of the story. And if you ask me, the less of those people in FF fandom, the better ^_^

FF needs to take the sidewalk, like I said, There are more deserving RPGs. Look at SMT, its got a lot of praise more than Final Fantasy by reviewers, and the recent persona 3 just nailed it.

FF can't be on par with the SMT series.
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That's just nonsense, Chrono. Seriously, where do you get this stuff? Critics and gamers alike by far prefer FF to SMT. The most recent SMT titles do not get anwhere near the level of praise Final Fantasy games get and if you think they do, you're just dreaming.
 
CitizenGeek said:
Chrono Demon said:
PSP sold loads cause of the new slim edition... Maybe FF7: CC helped it out, but it was mainly the slim and lite...
Click to expand...

I was talking about sales of the game (I'm sorry, but d'uh!). And in any case, the first week of the PSP Slim & Lite, about 80,000 PSPs were sold, and 76,000 or so of those were the CC special edition PSPs, so saying CC only had a little to do with the PSP toppling the seemingly invincible DS is streching it a bit.

As for FFXIII, I hope it fails. Many people I know who bought FFXII was very disapointed. I have no high hopes for FFXIII, so lets hope it fails this time round.
Click to expand...

The only people that were disapointed with FFXII were the people who play FF soley for the story. The people who want bishoenen men and women in revealing outfits. The people who twist and warp FF in countless pieces of artwork and absurd fanfiction. In other words, the people who aren't actually fans of Final Fantasy, more fans of the story. And if you ask me, the less of those people in FF fandom, the better ^_^

FF needs to take the sidewalk, like I said, There are more deserving RPGs. Look at SMT, its got a lot of praise more than Final Fantasy by reviewers, and the recent persona 3 just nailed it.

FF can't be on par with the SMT series.
Click to expand...

That's just nonsense, Chrono. Seriously, where do you get this stuff? Critics and gamers alike by far prefer FF to SMT. The most recent SMT titles do not get anwhere near the level of praise Final Fantasy games get and if you think they do, you're just dreaming.
Click to expand...

Seriously, Look harder. The story is so original compared to the FF series. And the enviroment is a break from the RPG norm.

And we aren't consider to be FF fans. Hah, I could just say the same that you're ain't a FF fan.. If I wanted to play a game like FFXII, I could go and play Star Ocean.

I think FF should stay in its own teritory. But meh, I stopped being a FF fan for ages now, its just not worth playing.
 
I don't understand all the excitement around the time of the III remake's release.

I finally got it, and I think it's...er...not very good to be honest. :/

I do like the Chocobo Tales game though!
 
I thought the excitment was due to the fact that the game had never been released in the west before. I got it and kinda enjoyed it, but the final dugeon annoyed the hell out of me :evil:
 
CitizenGeek said:
Nemphtis said:
Casual gamers make up most of the market, and there aren't many casual gamers out there who play RPGs. Final Fantasy is a successful franchise and gets insane sales in Japan, with good sales in the west also. However, although I am repeating myself it is not Sony's trump card because it doesn't cater to most gamers in the way an action game would. I think if anything was to be Sony's trump card right now, it would be Little Big Planet or Killzone 2.
Click to expand...

You think Killzone 2 and LittleBigPlanet will sell better than FFXIII in the West? In all honesty, that's just wishful thinking on behalf of the people that dislike Final Fantasy. FFXII sold over one million copies in the US, and topped the charts in every single significant European country. Final Fantasy is mainstream. It's hard to believe, but it's true. I know that there were people in every year of my school who were talking about FFXII around the time it was released.

FFXIII is most definately Sony's trump card. If they lose FFXIII, then the other games they have don't collectively warrant it for a lot of people - myself included. Just look at the sales of Crisis Core on PSP in Japan. Those are amazing sales for a spin-off FF game on PSP.
Click to expand...

Look, I understand you're a huge Final Fantasy fanboy and would go to any lengths in order to make sure that not a single negative remark is ever made against your precious Squeenix but if you honestly think that America and the UK casual market cares more about an RPG compared to an FPS then you seriously need to sit back and think what you're saying.

Let me make it perfectly clear to you, those idiots you remember from school, those chavs, those cool kids who made fun of us for being geeky, they don't give a crap about no RPG. Final Fantasy, wots dat mate, sounds liek sum pornz or sumfin. The casual market prefers games that's about action, that's why Sony is trying to hype Killzone 2 to attract shooter enthusiasts and LittleBigPlanet to get the casual players who don't want to get teabagged online to enjoy their overpriced system.

You say I dislike Final Fantasy, I've been a follower of the series since Final Fantasy VI and own all the games in the franchise including some of the disgusting spin-offs since I started. You assume I'm not a fan of Final Fantasy just because I'm not trying to protect the franchise whenever someone says anything that could be considered a negative remark against the series or something, or is it something else? I don't need to show you any kind of stats for this, but if you want I can because I wrote an article recently which has some information regarding the statistics of FPS games and how they are currently by far the most sold genre of video game, I'll dig it up for you when I get home.

Final Fantasy doesn't rule the world outside of Japan, I know it's hard to believe but it's true. There are Final Fantasy fanboys in Japan that make any fanboy ever conceived look like nothing, serious I have seen some things regarding Japanese Final Fantasy fanboys that I will never in my lifetime forget, it has the country's gaming market gripped and no matter what Square Enix releases, they will eat it up. However, we're not in Japan, and Final Fantasy is not God. We're in the West, where the majority prefer to blow **** up, and abuse you over the internet about how they owned you on say, Halo 3 or Counter-Strike.

Let's make a bet, I will name two FPS games that sold well worldwide every time you name one RPG that sold well. My FPS games' sales numbers must at least pass your RPGs, are you willing to make this wager against me seeing as RPGs are clearly so incredibly maintream and totally gangster that even the thugs in Harlem are saying "Yo dawg, you gotta get yo' ass some of that Final Fantizzay sheet, it's straight up poppin' gangstaaaaaa." No, because the mindless zombies who we call casual gamers are too busy playing awful tripe such as 50 Cent's Bulletproof, which is one of the worst shooters I've ever seen but who cares, it has 50 Cent's name on it and you get to shoot crap.

Final Fantasy topped the charts in the west, yeah? So did 50 Cents Bulletproof, so did Bratz on the Nintendo DS, so did every damn game which us true gamers don't care about but mothers and fathers eat up as if it's the next best thing since Legend of Zelda. Come, I challenge you to my RPG vs. FPS bet, a new challenger has arrived, let me show you my pokemanz.

I apologise if this comes across as aggressive, it wasn't my goal, just a rant.
 
Aaron said:
I don't understand all the excitement around the time of the III remake's release.

I finally got it, and I think it's...er...not very good to be honest. :/

I do like the Chocobo Tales game though!
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Aye i hated III too, the storyline was....well it stretches the definition of "story" to call "it" a story and the battle system was very XII esque - one big grind fest.
RPGs are all about the story and uber levelling your character until he's the biggest badass around. No compelling story means im not gonna go through the final 2 hour long dungeon to find out something i dont care about and no half-decent combat/levelling system which at least gives a illusion of reward means im not gonna go searching for omega weapon to get the ultimate weapon or spell.

Was there any sort of no encounter magic/item/weapon in that game? I got up to the golden palace/house thang and then admitted defeat!
 
Surprise, I didn't want to keep anyone waiting. Here's the article that backs up my facts, yes I said facts because this is not a matter of opinion and anyone who isn't deluded by Square-Enix will see that shooters dominate the western markets, period, no Phoenix Wright objections possible. I don't even need to show this data to back it up, it's utter common sense and I can't believe (seriously) that anyone would even question this basic fact of the industry we know and love. So, here's the quote with the important bits in bold, and here's the full article on the research in case you want to read it all.

The new study, Console Intelligence Brief 2007, examines the range of new business opportunities for developers and publishers that the latest generation of video game console hardware has created. Connectivity has opened up meaningful social interactions with other players which increases audience, brand strength and game longevity for titles that have online features. Digital storefronts for latest generation consoles are providing a means of further monetizing game libraries, including older games, to the audience.

For next generation console games, the critics’ favorite list and the blockbuster charts have a lot in common, with highly rated titles selling up to five times better than titles with lower scoring reviews.

“In the increasingly expensive and risk averse publishing environment, understanding the market and a better knowledge of the features that resonate with your customers can help game makers use their creativity to develop titles with blockbuster sales potential,â€
Click to expand...
 
Liquid Skin said:
Was there any sort of no encounter magic/item/weapon in that game? I got up to the golden palace/house thang and then admitted defeat!
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God i wish, it would of made the end part a lot easier. I actually have a friend who had more fun with job system then the game itself.
 
BlackWolf said:
Liquid Skin said:
Was there any sort of no encounter magic/item/weapon in that game? I got up to the golden palace/house thang and then admitted defeat!
Click to expand...

God i wish, it would of made the end part a lot easier. I actually have a friend who had more fun with job system then the game itself.
Click to expand...

*shudders* Naaaasty. The job system was a good one i suppose, i just wish they'd gone a bit deeper than, kill - > lv up. 90% of RPGs are that i know but they at least try to give you a bit more choice with stats.
 
I know what you mean, its a bit mind numbing to just go around and level up just because you need a spefic job to beat a boss. It also seemed weird that the upgrades for the black, white, red mage got treated as seperate jobs, i understand the summoner and the evoker been different due to the different effects the summons have, but for the traditonal three colour mages it just seemed off somehow. I just wish the jobs were a bit more balanced
 
Nemphtis said:
Surprise, I didn't want to keep anyone waiting. Here's the article that backs up my facts, yes I said facts because this is not a matter of opinion and anyone who isn't deluded by Square-Enix will see that shooters dominate the western markets, period, no Phoenix Wright objections possible. I don't even need to show this data to back it up, it's utter common sense and I can't believe (seriously) that anyone would even question this basic fact of the industry we know and love. So, here's the quote with the important bits in bold, and here's the full article on the research in case you want to read it all.

The new study, Console Intelligence Brief 2007, examines the range of new business opportunities for developers and publishers that the latest generation of video game console hardware has created. Connectivity has opened up meaningful social interactions with other players which increases audience, brand strength and game longevity for titles that have online features. Digital storefronts for latest generation consoles are providing a means of further monetizing game libraries, including older games, to the audience.

For next generation console games, the critics’ favorite list and the blockbuster charts have a lot in common, with highly rated titles selling up to five times better than titles with lower scoring reviews.

“In the increasingly expensive and risk averse publishing environment, understanding the market and a better knowledge of the features that resonate with your customers can help game makers use their creativity to develop titles with blockbuster sales potential,â€
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Killzone probably sold more than FFXII. Us gamers have got to remember that sadly, the majority of the market is the people who buy anything that looks violent or anything like GTA.
 
Mmmhmm theres a big difference between sales and quality.

Personally i find the likes of Halo and Killzone - incredibly drab and average for my tastes. Its not that i don't like FPSs, i just expect them to push the barriers a lil more than "humans vs aliens" or "humans vs humans" or "aliens vs aliens".
Jericho for example, its certainly not amazing but they've at least expanded on the "shoot things" area to add in a God of War esque button sequence and team dynamics rather than the one-man army scenario we all know too well. I found it immensely refreshing (in my limited venture into FPSs). Its copying the innovators but at least its something rather than nothing. I wont buy the game but it stands out more than "lets add more shiny" (although for a dark game it is outrageously shiny)

Okami and Ico are two of my all-time favourite games. I'm not even going to bother to look at how much they both sold - it'll just depress me.
 
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