The Evangelion thread

[Shadow Cat]

I didn't win the auction It went for almost 1350$ dollars and I was the second last buyer. I really wanted it but kinda glad I didn't get it for that price. I guess will have to keep a look out for another one

Now its ended, where was it?

Y!J?

 

[Robin91]

Now its ended, where was it?

Y!J?

Yeah, it was on Yahoo Japan. There's a couple more cels that ends on there today but no sketches that I'm interested in

『新世紀エヴァンゲリオン』アスカ直筆動画下書... - ヤフオク!

xkcrx 『新世紀エヴァンゲリオン』アスカ直筆動画下書き！～海外研究者コレクションより里帰り放出品！☆彡惣流アスカ葛城ミサト 碇シンジ 【商品解説】 北米でアニメの研究をしている先代の知人が2000年代初頭大学や研究諸機関での展示や授業用に収集していたものの里帰り放出になります！～今となっては多変貴重なオリジナルアニメ関連資料の、こちらはアスカの動画用の直筆原画で、元は関係者からの譲渡品だったそうですが、詳細は当方には判りません。 【状態】 特に目立ったキズや汚れはないようです。写真のものが全てになりま

page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp

 

[Shadow Cat]

I knew it was expencive but seeing 150,000 made me Wow. Far too much for me

Only things I own are a few official reproduction cels and a Hikari Promo/Cinema size official poster (IIRC Kings Records?) Will check when I get home

 

[Robin91]

I knew it was expencive but seeing 150,000 made me Wow. Far too much for me

Only things I own are a few official reproduction cels and a Hikari Promo/Cinema size official poster (IIRC Kings Records?) Will check when I get home

It is a lot but I really wanted one nice sketch from the show for my collection. There was a cel of Asuka that went for almost the same price so I guess it got a bit expensive for just being a sketch.

 

[Neil.T]

I didn't win the auction

Ahh, hard luck, Robin.

Wow, that became a really expensive item. I know that I certainly wouldn't want to pay anything like that for a piece of artwork, as much as I love Evangelion.

I'll still keep a lookout for the scene as I watch the series all the same, just out of curiosity now.

Well done getting into the last two.

 

[Robin91]

Ahh, hard luck, Robin.

Wow, that became a really expensive item. I know that I certainly wouldn't want to pay anything like that for a piece of artwork, as much as I love Evangelion.

I'll still keep a lookout for the scene as I watch the series all the same, just out of curiosity now.

Well done getting into the last two.

Yeah, it was quite expensive but owning one would be really awesome to me Yeah, I'm still very interested in knowing from where the scene is if you stumble upon it

 

[Robin91]

Btw, someone helped me find the scene.

Spoiler: Scene

It's from episode 15 when Asuka is walking up to Shinji for a kiss.

 

[RadFemHedonist]

Wow that's from a pretty iconic scene! I love the way these production sketches are subtly coloured looks lovely

EDIT: Also wanted to add that I've been listening the hecc out of Hikaru Utada's One Last Kiss today

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Btw, someone helped me find the scene.

Spoiler: Scene

It's from episode 15 when Asuka is walking up to Shinji for a kiss.

View attachment 19954View attachment 19955

Well observed, nothing like a bit of context to an artwork. Sorry you didn't get it, but yeah it was pretty damned pricey, so here's hoping you get a chance to put that money towards another bit of artwork just as nice, or maybe even better instead.



Episode 15 - Lies & silence: a very aptly titled episode, peppered throughout with the lies and silences constituting the characters' current and past lives. Gendo's duplicity around his intentions, Kaji's double-life and curiosity that'll kill the cat, Shinji's inability to have an honest & meaningful conversation with his father, Misato's musings on her motivations and assumed dishonest use of others for selfish goals. Rejection could easily have been in the title as well, with that of the fathers' in relation to Shinji & Misato, Asuka's immediate averse reaction & regret at the use of intimacy to alleviate boredom followed right after with just as immediate a dismissal of her advances by Kaji. But where the episode starts with Gendo/NERV's deceit, so too does it culminate with the final reveal of sinister ongoings, kept even from their own higher echelons as demonstrated to Misato. Great episode marking a shift towards a more serious tone & introspections from hereon.

And just to throw it in my face episode 16 starts with some comedy, though that is short-lived and in itself already a reflection of Asuka's growing jealousy-induced discontent with both Shinji & Misato, later expanded on during the episode. Her apparent callousness at Shinji's misfortune leading to a verbal showdown between her & Rei, with both looking their most menacing:


And if you weren't already terrified enough by those two, there's always a berserk Unit-01 to top it all off (do NOT mess with a mother bear & her cub!):


Sci-fi jargon used to explain the angel's constitution, but an interesting thought on the initially assumed spherical body actually discovered to be a reflection of the main body with the latter being a link to another universe. Reminded me somewhat of how Interstellar nicely explained the spherical appearance of a wormhole as thinking of a 3d visualisation of a 2d circle. Speaking of alternate/multiple universes, quantum Shinji's introspection involving a conversation among multiple selves. The visual imagery is the same as used in both the portrayals of Instrumentality, at the end of the TV series, as well as in The End of Evangelion. Anno has again used the train to devastating effectiveness in the depiction of the loneliness that is a life.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Episode 17 is on the many sshhildren picked by the cat Marduk institute. Another scary Eva lady you don't want to run into in a dark alley:

(Damn I think I've likely already missed a good shot of Misato's to add to the scary Eva ladies series..)

Shinji's confidence persists despite the events of the last episode, to the extent that his increasing disgruntlement with the adults is clearly verbalised to Kaji in relation to the latter's lecherous ways and irritation demonstrated to Aida regarding Misato keeping him in the dark. Asuka likewise unimpressed with those two adults when yet again being brushed off by Kaji who always seems to have time for Misato. The brooding feel of the episode nicely epitomised by the lonesome Toji's basketball court scene.
But more importantly:
this rooftop isn't supposed to be a hangout for social butterflies!

Ah that's better, the next episodes's preview corrects that foolish notion.

Episode 18 starts with another scary Eva female?

I love all the beautiful Tokyo-3 sunset scenes scattered throughout the show, the atmosphere they generate is always special in ways I can't describe.

Asuka not revealing the new pilot's identity to the uniquely oblivious Shinji, comes across as spiteful or vengeful but I wonder if it was, like with every other person close to Shinji, out of a concern he wouldn't be able to handle it. The lack of appropriate communication, in this case via Shinji being mollycoddled, is pretty frustrating, almost following the inability-to-communicate trope in romcom anime. However Shinji's inability to use logic and dispose of the Angel in the least harmful way to all the others, or rather the rest of humanity, and even the other pilot rather vindicates the mollycoddling I guess. Great conversation between Kaji & Shinji on people forever grappling unsuccessfully to truly understand each other. Misato talks about having the power to destroy the world with four Evas under her command (in hindsight a nice bit of foreboding in relation to her power and role on Wunder). Interesting how Unit-03's pilot is never shown in the cockpit, even though the audience is already well in the know, but I take it as an effective way to put the audience emotionally in Shinji's shoes for the final reveal. Some great artwork relating to the Evas, and of course there is this iconic scene:

The first use of the eternally sinister dummy system. The scene with the class rep at the end is heartbreaking.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Hokay, just binged to episode 23 but managed to stop there. These last few episodes and their deconstruction of the main characters, or human beings with their motivations & relationships in general, is what really makes Eva stand out as an art form and something that has to be experienced rather than written about (or at least not done the injustice of my singular sorry excuse for prose).

Based on previous chats, on this occasion I'll watch episodes 23&24, then mix in death & rebirth with End of Eva and conclude with 25&26 for a happier overall ending. Then of course moving on to the Rebuilds and soon the very eagerly anticipated (for the last 14 years) final conclusion to Eva. Exciting stuff!

 

[Neil.T]

on this occasion I'll watch episodes 23&24, then mix in death & rebirth with End of Eva and conclude with 25&26 for a happier overall ending.

Interesting playlist. My rewatch this time will take in the original ADV versions of episodes 21 to 24, and then episodes 25 and 26. I'll save the Director's Cut versions of those former three episodes, Death & Rebirth and The End of Evangelion for AL's Ultimate Edition.

That's something I'm actually a bit particular about when it comes to Neon Genesis Evangelion: I maintain that the original episodes 21 to 24 lead to TV episodes 25 and 26, whereas the Director's Cuts of those lead to the film The End of Evangelion, as if they're on separate tracks.

To me, if you watch the Director's Cuts followed by TV 25 and 26, there are more things set up that are never followed up on. That's because the purpose of the Director's Cuts is to seed new elements that will become relevant in the film. The tone is also very different, I think, and flows nicely into EoE. By the same token, if you were to watch the original versions of that trio of episodes and then go to EoE, it wouldn't quite add up properly. For example, you'd be left wondering when it was that Lilith ever grew legs.

Misato talks about having the power to destroy the world with four Evas under her command (in hindsight a nice bit of foreboding in relation to her power and role on Wunder).

And funnily enough, the scenario of having four Evas hasn't occurred in Rebuild, what with the so-called Vatican Treaty in place to prevent that.


I'm about to start episode 18, but before that, just reporting in with some miscellaneous thoughts up to this point.

I can't help but notice how the ADV subtitles sometimes play fast and loose with the original script. Take the scene in episode 17 where Kaji halfheartedly flirts with Maya, for example: the subs have him taunt Misato with a bit of innuendo. "Who's under whom is none of your concern", they read. In the actual Japanese dialogue, all he says is "It's not your jurisdiction, is it, though?"

I can't help but feel (speaking as someone who's heard next to nothing of it!) that the ADV dub can be pretty tone deaf at times as well. I'd already read something about episode 15 on Evageeks before watching it, and I was surprised at just how obvious it was to me when listening to the original Japanese audio:

In the Japanese dub, when Asuka turns and runs away after the kiss, we hear a barely audible gasp of anger. In ADV's dub, they anticipate the "gargling" sounds by having her let out a comedic bleeehhhhh! style sound, apparently missing the point that she is supposed to be almost speechless with anger and embarrassment.​

Episode 15 - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

I listened to the tiniest bit of Fuyutsuki speaking on the train near the start of episode 11 (again because of a difference in the Japanese and English dialogue), and I absolutely hated it. It amazes me the the old ADV dub is so highly regarded.

Meanwhile, I need to pay tribute once again to the Japanese voice acting on episode 13 ("Angel Invasion/Lilliputian Hitcher"). The voice cast all imbue their performances with an actual life-or-death urgency. It's absolutely remarkable.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

I maintain that the original episodes 21, 22 and 23 lead to TV episodes 25 and 26, whereas the Director's Cuts of those lead to the film The End of Evangelion, as if they're on separate tracks.

To me, if you watch the Director's Cuts followed by TV 25 and 26, there are more things set up that are never followed up on. That's because the purpose of the Director's Cuts is to seed new elements that will become relevant in the film. The tone is also very different, I think, and flows nicely into EoE. By the same token, if you were to watch the original versions of that trio of episodes and then go to EoE, it wouldn't quite add up properly. For example, you'd be left wondering when it was that Lilith ever grew legs.

Completely agree with you there and it is quite clear how the additions were for the benefit of EoE.

I can't help but notice how the ADV subtitles sometimes play fast and loose with the original script. Take the scene in episode 17 where Kaji halfheartedly flirts with Maya, for example: the subs have him taunt Misato with a bit of innuendo. "Who's under whom is none of your concern", they read. In the actual Japanese dialogue, all he says is "It's not your jurisdiction, is it, though?"

I think you'd be happier then with the new subs then as that translation of yours follows the current subs very closely.

In the Japanese dub, when Asuka turns and runs away after the kiss, we hear a barely audible gasp of anger. In ADV's dub, they anticipate the "gargling" sounds by having her let out a comedic bleeehhhhh! style sound, apparently missing the point that she is supposed to be almost speechless with anger and embarrassment.

I had no idea and that's quite a significant change. The small amount of time taken to adjust, and reapply the facade for when she comes back out & also when Kaji turns up, makes all the difference in her appearing less callous about the whole experience as opposed to the implied comedic antipathy... That's a shame..

 

[Neil.T]

that translation of yours follows the current subs very closely.

Oh wow, really?

I guess Dan Kanemitsu from Khara really did just go for a direct translation for the new subs, then.


I fixed the numbers for the Director's Cut episodes in my post that you quoted from, by the way. I accidentally typed "21, 22 and 23" instead of 21 to 24 the second time that I mentioned them. Cue Fuyutsuki facepalm:

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

I accidentally typed "21, 22 and 23" instead of 21, 23 and 24 the second time that I mentioned them. Cue Fuyutsuki facepalm

Heheh I wouldn't worry about it with me dude, I don't generally focus so much on the specifics as am very much of the thought that you feel Eva, not understand it. Something I was very much thinking during Rei's introspection/chat with the angel in episode 23, aided significantly by the phenomenal soundtrack (I so wish AL do a CD release in addition to that lovely vinyl! (And why not bundle it into the UE while you're at it hah?!) Surely by the logic of dvds being much cheaper/easier to produce than blu-rays, the same should be the case for CDs as opposed to vinyls?). I also recalled how episodes 23 & 24 are so packed and almost feel rushed. And the mental breakdown continues, onwards & downwards towards EoE!

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Wasn't planning on re-watching Death(True)² but glad I was tempted to by the additional string quartet scenes and lovely music. It is certainly an accomplished compilation choosing to focus on the main characters' developments, with some of the great action and not so much of the exposition, which is often difficult to convey in these anyway. I will actually always love this compilation for its beautiful end credits which introduced me at my first watch, when I was living under a rock, to what for me is probably the greatest piece of music ever written (as also endorsed by every Western wedding these days!).

 

[Neil.T]

I will actually always love this compilation for its beautiful end credits

God, yeah. Those end credits are something else. I mean, think, about that for a sec: how many end credit sequences in films are something that you actually remember? Maybe you remember a catchy music choice, but that's usually about it.

The end credits for Death(True)² are absolutely stirring, though. And then the way that you would go to the beginning of The End of Evangelion (via a short musical intermission) if you were watching the old Death & Rebirth version... Well, after the impactful brilliance of the credits, I began to wonder what I might've let myself in for. I mean, who can forget EoE's opening scenes? The mindtrip had already begun by that point, and there was no way out.

---

For anyone still interested in a mini-simulwatch of Evangelion Rebuild, the idea is to start tomorrow (7th August) with 1.11, then 2.22 on the 9th, followed by 3.33 on the 11th, ahead of the debut of 3.0+1.01 on Amazon Prime Video on the 13th. Rather than create a thread for a four-film simulwatch, we can just do it here in The Evangelion thread instead.

Obviously there will be folks who can only join in once the first three films are up on Prime Video, so if that applies to you, just be mindful of potential spoilers in other viewers' posts.

When we hit 13th August, the whole of Rebuild will be fair game to talk about, so beware of spoilers for 3.0+1.01 from that date! I've put a disclaimer to that effect in the thread's opening post, too.

Me, I've never had an opportunity to simulwatch Rebuild before, so I'm hugely looking forward to doing it. And to think that we're only a week away from finding out how the whole story ends, well... I've been invested in it since the middle of 2011 and have been keenly awaiting the conclusion since October 2013.

It's been a long time coming, folks.

 

[RaeDra]

Just popping in here to mention an update about the Evangelion Rebuild situation on Amazon, specifically the dubs

It appears that the rebuild movies have been redubbed for streaming on Amazon

https://twitter.com/x/status/1423823582740697095

Of course, those familiar with those names will know that cast to be mostly the ADV cast of the show (even if it was after some in production recasts) and features some of the Manga Entertainment cast members as well. Kaworu (along with Mari) is recast once again and any cast member unique to the Funi rebuild cast is now gone (UPDATE: looked at the cast again, Felecia Angelle was in the Funi cast of 3.33 as Sakura Suzuhara, so it could be she's reprising the role, I wonder if not being in Texas these days has anything to do with it, hard to say).

One thing to note here in the credits
Project Translation, English ADR Script Translation Supervisor: Dan Kanemitsu

Once again, Dan Kanemitsu has the same role as his in the Netflix production and also Funimation's eventual release of 3.33.

 

[NormanicGrav]

A comparison chart for those interested. It's actually surprising they chose to bring back the trio from the ADV dub for the main three characters.

EVANGELION Cast	ADV Dub (TV Series)	Manga Dub (End of Eva)	Netflix Dub (TV Series + End of Eva)	Funimation Dub (Rebuild)	Amazon Prime Dub (Rebuild)
Shinji Ikari	Spike Spencer	Spike Spencer	Casey Mongillo	Spike Spencer	Spike Spencer
Rei Ayanami	Amanda Winn Lee	Amanda Winn Lee	Ryan Bartley	Brina Palencia	Amanda Winn Lee
Asuka Langley Shikinami	Tiffany Grant	Tiffany Grant	Stephanie McKeon	Tiffany Grant	Tiffany Grant
Mari Illustrious Makinami	--	--	--	Trina Nishimura	Deneen Melody
Misato Katsuragi	Allison Keith	Allison Keith	Carrie Keranen	Allison Keith	Allison Keith
Ritsuko Akagi	Sue Ulu	Sue Ulu	Erica Lindbeck	Colleen Clinkenbeard	Mary Faber
Gendo Ikari	Tristan MacAvery (Main series) John Swasey (Director's Cut)	Tristan MacAvery	Ray Chase	John Swasey	John Swasey
Ryoji Kaji	Aaron Krohn	Aaron Krohn	Greg Chun	J. Michael Tatum	Sean Burgos
Kaworu Nagisa	Kyle Sturdivant (Main series) Greg Ayres (Director's Cut)	Aaron Krohn	Clifford Chapin	Jerry Jewell	Daman Mills

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

The end credits for Death(True)² are absolutely stirring, though. And then the way that you would go to the beginning of The End of Evangelion (via a short musical intermission) if you were watching the old Death & Rebirth version... Well, after the impactful brilliance of the credits, I began to wonder what I might've let myself in for. I mean, who can forget EoE's opening scenes? The mindtrip had already begun by that point, and there was no way out.

Very true, every time I watch Death I have to remind myself that I don't have to swap over to EoE halfway through as per my first ever watch (which is clearly firmly ingrained in my brain!). But yeah, very impactful indeed and EoE is after all just one magnificent mindtrip. Watched it & then the original episodes 25&26 last night and despite how thematically the latter completes the story nicely, and positively, they didn't serve much as a balm to the disaster EoE wrecks at all heh. For this simpleton, Eva is the height of human artistic expression, with EoE its pinnacle. I can't wait for the final rebuild now, hoping for a gentler end for these characters who've been with us for a few decades.