The Evangelion thread
- Thread starter Neil.T
- Start date
mikezilla2
Adventurer
Just When is the anime limited set coming ?
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
“2021”
Here's a question for people who actually know stuff...
I have an Amazon.co.uk account, but I've never taken out the 30-day Prime trial. If I did, would I be able to watch Evangelion 3.0+1.0 when it starts streaming?
EDIT: I literally only just clocked that we're getting the so-called 3.0+1.01 version.
I have an Amazon.co.uk account, but I've never taken out the 30-day Prime trial. If I did, would I be able to watch Evangelion 3.0+1.0 when it starts streaming?
EDIT: I literally only just clocked that we're getting the so-called 3.0+1.01 version.
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Oldmario
Thousand Master
it's on prime video and that is included with the trial so yes, just stating the obvious but August 13th will have to be somewhere in the 30 day period
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Yeah this should be the case and I do recall having access to all included content whenever I've done any prime trials, including the video (not separate and included as standard with Amazon prime) and music unlimited ones, so you should be good to watch @Neil.T.
Thank you, Oldmario!
(Sorry, couldn't resist.
)That's brilliant, dude. Thanks ever so much for the info.
And thanks likewise for the confirmation, buddy.
You know, all of a sudden I feel genuinely nervous at the prospect of getting to see the film. Evangelion Rebuild is a story that began for me in 2011, and in the course of the last decade it has at certain times felt to me like the most meaningful thing in my little existence.
It's almost time to finally learn what happens next in the story and how it will all end. That's a true once-in-a-lifetime experience.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
For you and me both dude, I know exactly how you feel. I'm optimistic though and what non-spoiler sections of a review or two I glanced at seemed to imply an end to satisfy the fans. I always thought that Anno brought out the darkest version of the story in End of Evangelion and maybe the most positive in the TV series, therefore always has an expectation of the most realistic version (or at least kinder than EoE heh) when he announced the Rebuilds. I'm just glad we got a conclusion eventually!
@Geriatric hedgehog:
So... I started rewatching Neon Genesis Evangelion ahead of the 13 August release of Evangelion 3.0+1.01 on Amazon Prime Video. Surprisingly, this will be only the third time I'll be seeing the original series. I'm watching in Japanese as ever. Two episodes in, just some quick thoughts:
Episode 1
Having originally gotten into Eva through Rebuild, something that always strikes me about this first episode is how snippy Gendō can sometimes come across as. In Rebuild, he's a true sociopath and sounds appropriately cold and distant, as I think he also does by the time we get to The End of Evangelion in this continuity. But at this early stage, it's as if Gainax and voice actor Fumihiko Tachiki haven't quite nailed his character yet.
Episode 2
Some translation-related musings.
My attention is caught once again by the on-screen caption "Human Enhancement Project". That continues to feel to me like a much more understandable translation of the Japanese 人類補完計画 than the official term "Human Instrumentality Project" is. To this day I'm still very fuzzy on how the word "instrumentality" applies here, so I did a quick Web search and discovered this:
psycnet.apa.org
If it's in fact drawn from a psychology term, then it would actually be very much at home within Eva.
The translation on the original ADV DVDs that I'm watching certainly does take some liberties, though. As an example, there's a scene in Misato's apartment where she says to Shinji: "Take advantage of everything here, except me." That last phrase is not in the Japanese dialogue: she merely tells Shinji that there's no need for him to hold back or be shy, because this is his home, too, from today onwards.
The translation has also taken liberties with the sign on Shinji's door by rendering it as "Shinji's Lovely Suite". It actually just reads "Shin-chan's room ♥".
And lastly, when Ritsuko calls Unit-01 "a berserker", the Japanese word she uses is bōsō (暴走), which is written using the kanji for "violence" and "running".
So... I started rewatching Neon Genesis Evangelion ahead of the 13 August release of Evangelion 3.0+1.01 on Amazon Prime Video. Surprisingly, this will be only the third time I'll be seeing the original series. I'm watching in Japanese as ever. Two episodes in, just some quick thoughts:
Episode 1
Having originally gotten into Eva through Rebuild, something that always strikes me about this first episode is how snippy Gendō can sometimes come across as. In Rebuild, he's a true sociopath and sounds appropriately cold and distant, as I think he also does by the time we get to The End of Evangelion in this continuity. But at this early stage, it's as if Gainax and voice actor Fumihiko Tachiki haven't quite nailed his character yet.
Episode 2
Some translation-related musings.
My attention is caught once again by the on-screen caption "Human Enhancement Project". That continues to feel to me like a much more understandable translation of the Japanese 人類補完計画 than the official term "Human Instrumentality Project" is. To this day I'm still very fuzzy on how the word "instrumentality" applies here, so I did a quick Web search and discovered this:
Instrumentality theory hypothesizes that a person's attitude toward an occurrence (outcome) depends on his perceptions of how that outcome is related (instrumental) to the occurrence of other more or less preferred consequences.
APA PsycNet
If it's in fact drawn from a psychology term, then it would actually be very much at home within Eva.
The translation on the original ADV DVDs that I'm watching certainly does take some liberties, though. As an example, there's a scene in Misato's apartment where she says to Shinji: "Take advantage of everything here, except me." That last phrase is not in the Japanese dialogue: she merely tells Shinji that there's no need for him to hold back or be shy, because this is his home, too, from today onwards.
The translation has also taken liberties with the sign on Shinji's door by rendering it as "Shinji's Lovely Suite". It actually just reads "Shin-chan's room ♥".
And lastly, when Ritsuko calls Unit-01 "a berserker", the Japanese word she uses is bōsō (暴走), which is written using the kanji for "violence" and "running".
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RadFemHedonist
Cardcaptor
Just wanted to mention that actually the version of NGE I have on TV is the ADV US Platinum Singles With Box, it's kinda the crown jewel of my anime DVD collection, and I'll probably hold onto it when I buy the series on BD later this year 
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Arrrgh, you've started already! Heh I was planning on starting by the end of the week by may try and get going tomorrow maybe.@Geriatric hedgehog:
So... I started rewatching Neon Genesis Evangelion ahead of the 13 August release of Evangelion 3.0+1.01 on Amazon Prime Video. Surprisingly, this will be only the third time I'll be seeing the original series. I'm watching in Japanese as ever. Two episodes in, just some quick thoughts:
Episode 1
Having originally gotten into Eva through Rebuild, something that always strikes me about this first episode is how snippy Gendō can sometimes come across as. In Rebuild, he's a true sociopath and sounds appropriately cold and distant, as I think he also does by the time we get to The End of Evangelion in this continuity. But at this early stage, it's as if Gainax and voice actor Fumihiko Tachiki haven't quite nailed his character yet.
Episode 2
Some translation-related musings.
My attention is caught once again by the on-screen caption "Human Enhancement Project". That continues to feel to me like a much more understandable translation of the Japanese 人類補完計画 than the official term "Human Instrumentality Project" is. To this day I'm still very fuzzy on how the word "instrumentality" applies here, so I did a quick Web search and discovered this:
Instrumentality theory hypothesizes that a person's attitude toward an occurrence (outcome) depends on his perceptions of how that outcome is related (instrumental) to the occurrence of other more or less preferred consequences.APA PsycNet
If it's in fact drawn from a psychology term, then it would actually be very much at home within Eva.
The translation on the original ADV DVDs that I'm watching certainly does take some liberties, though. As an example, there's a scene in Misato's apartment where she says to Shinji: "Take advantage of everything here, except me." That last phrase is not in the Japanese dialogue: she merely tells Shinji that there's no need for him to hold back or be shy, because this is his home, too, from today onwards.
The translation has also taken liberties with the sign on Shinji's door by rendering it as "Shinji's Lovely Suite". It actually just reads "Shin-chan's room ♥".
And lastly, when Ritsuko calls Unit-01 "a berserker", the Japanese word she uses is bōsō (暴走), which is written using the kanji for "violence" and "running".
I completely agree with your thoughts on Gendo. In the TV series I, like Shinji, was forever waiting for him to redeem himself, especially after the visit to Yui's grave. But by the end and EoE especially, he had pretty much confirmed himself to be completely self-centred and irredeemable, to the extent that both of the only two (or one?) he gave any real attention to (Rei & Yui) rejected him. Interesting thoughts as always on the language interpretations as I would always miss those nuances. I'm actually impressed with the translation adding that last bit to Misato's line as it is quite apt in relation to the show's psychosexual themes even if it completely switches the intent in the original line heh. Likewise the use of the Instrumentality term in that context also really fits a lot better. I generally just hope translations don't take away from a show rather than add to it, so always a pleasant surprise in the latter instances.
I know what you mean. I'm very much looking forward to having it on blu ray but that tin definitely had pride of place on my (currently mess of a) shelf and a surefire way to get me riled up is to put any rubbish in front of it to block my view of it heh.Just wanted to mention that actually the version of NGE I have on TV is the ADV US Platinum Singles With Box, it's kinda the crown jewel of my anime DVD collection, and I'll probably hold onto it when I buy the series on BD later this year
Just making a modest start to show intent, buddy. I wouldn't want to get too far ahead of where you're at; it'd be neat if we could get through it at a similar pace, so no rush.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Sorry dude, these last few weeks have been particularly exhausting. Tried watching a few days back but dozed straight off. Did manage to watch the first two episodes again yesterday but then promptly dozed off again before I could use the forum heh.Just making a modest start to show intent, buddy. I wouldn't want to get too far ahead of where you're at; it'd be neat if we could get through it at a similar pace, so no rush.
Anyhoo, watching on Netflix this time round but noticing that most, if not all, the background text is not translated and likewise for the episode title. Very annoying and off-putting. Translation is noticeably different as well, was this how Khara wanted it again and how was it generally received, apart from the whole "he loves me, loves me not" controversy? Don't know if I'll stick with Netflix and might switch back to my dvds. I'm really hoping either the original subs, or at least the option for those, is included in the upcoming blu rays...
Enough moaning, on to positives. This watch reminded me of a few bits I love about the great second episode:
- the genius title: Unfamiliar Ceilings,
- the switch/post-action interlude right in the middle of the fight, which is a great touch, and
- the washed out colours & lifeless look of the medical facilities, so aptly recreating their truly sterile nature in reality.
Right, going to try and watch a couple more tonight. Let's see how I fare.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Managed another two. Another aspect that's done really well is the happenings in the background, including the quiet exodus of the city reflected in the talk between the convenience store customers in episode 2, the empty classroom in episode 3 & the desolate train station in episode 4. Also in my brain, the sound of cicadas is intrinsically linked to Evangelion, being simultaneously soothing and disconcerting, a trait also used very effectively in the unsurprisingly named Higurashi series.
Shinji demonstrating one coping mechanism, whereby dulling the senses and blindly following orders is much easier than the pain of understanding, reasoning, questioning or challenging them. His doing so for ease, serving an interesting contrast to the background Rei, who as we learn does the same but because she just doesn't have a raison d'être otherwise, or know anything other than to follow orders.
Episode 4 is among one of my favourites in this series. I always gave Anno a lot of credit for this one but then I read that it was in fact the rest of the team that pushed for this very quiet, withdrawn and contemplative take on Shinji's state of mind. I think I mentioned before that this impressed me a lot with the entire team that helped realise this series.
Shinji demonstrating one coping mechanism, whereby dulling the senses and blindly following orders is much easier than the pain of understanding, reasoning, questioning or challenging them. His doing so for ease, serving an interesting contrast to the background Rei, who as we learn does the same but because she just doesn't have a raison d'être otherwise, or know anything other than to follow orders.
Episode 4 is among one of my favourites in this series. I always gave Anno a lot of credit for this one but then I read that it was in fact the rest of the team that pushed for this very quiet, withdrawn and contemplative take on Shinji's state of mind. I think I mentioned before that this impressed me a lot with the entire team that helped realise this series.
RadFemHedonist
Cardcaptor
The kicker of it all is that he just can't win, "get in the robot Shinji!" "don't blindly follow orders Shinji!"
(not directed at you just making a general point).Who here has heard this song that very clearly is a tribute to various themes of Evangelion?
That's one of the major factors in Shinji being such a relatable character for me, with that aspect of the story being especially strong in Rebuild where he's eternally ping-ponged between two seemingly equally disastrous options:
"Pilot the Eva."
"Just don't go pilotin' no more Evas!"
"Just don't go pilotin' no more Evas!"
I hadn't until I listened to it via the video you posted there, but have a lookie at what I wrote during the 2019 Gunbuster simulwatch:
Fun fact: Fightstar also have an album called Grand Unification, which is apparently a concept album inspired by Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Grand Unification (disambiguation) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
The tracks "Unfamiliar Ceilings" and "H.I.P. (Enough)" are both representations of Fightstar's continued interest in the Neon Genesis Evangelion franchise. The former song title comes from a line that the protagonist, Shinji Ikari, speaks during the series. The latter is an acronym for "Human Instrumentality Project", the goal of the fictional secret society "Seele". The third single, "Deathcar", also contains two b-sides; namely "Nerv/Seele" (named after the 2 factions from the Evangelion series) and the track "Shinji Ikari", after the aforementioned character of the same name.
One Day Son, This Will All Be Yours - Wikipedia
It was @WMD who brought Fightstar up back then.
I enjoyed listening to the track above. I can't say I picked out anything relating to Eva in the lyrics themselves, though.
RadFemHedonist
Cardcaptor
@Neil.T I would argue that "we need each other like, flowerpots and dirt" is very related to Evangelion's themes of the bittersweet nature of needing other humans "hedgehog's dilemma" and all that the line about "stay awake with me, close the window and stop this room from getting colder" I think is meant to be about Shinji lying in hospital bed and the line about "some of us will learn what none of us should know" might relate to things like
the line about "stay awake with me, close the window and stop this room from getting colder" I think is meant to be about Shinji lying in hospital bed and the line about "some of us will learn what none of us should know" might relate to things like
Shinji being forced to watch the Evangelion rip his friend Toji apart and more generally the horrible traumas the young Evangelion pilots go through and the killing and dirty work of war and battle
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The Netflix dub was often criticised for being pretty stilted, and I think the subs come under similar fire for being over-literal. I believe both scripts are the work of Khara's own Dan Kanemitsu, whose translations I'm honestly not very keen on. I believe it was also him who rendered the central phrase on the English-language 3.0+1.0 poster as the very bland and flat "Bye-bye, all of EVANGELION", completely ignoring its dramatic phrasing in Japanese. Even an amateur such as myself, after reading the Japanese poster, managed to come up with something far more appropriate:
His work on the much-delayed "corrected" script for Funimation's 3.0 dub also invoked the wrath of fans when it came to one of Asuka's lines to Shinji down in Lilith's chamber, but this time for being very much the opposite of literal. I've hidden the details in this spoiler tag:
Her line in Japanese as she attacks his and Kaworu's Unit-13 in Unit-02 is "Otonashiku yararero! Gakki-Shinji!", which was already widely translated at the time as something to the effect of "Now just go down quietly, you brat!"
For some reason known only only to him and possibly others, Kanemitsu made Funimation change the line to "Now shut up and let me KILL YOU!!"
Whaaat???!
To be fair, Funimation had taken other liberties with the original theatrically screened dub before Khara made them withdraw it from distribution and redo it. (Whatever happened to You can (not) redo??) Most memorably, there was another Asuka line, "He's not an idiot: he's a brat", that Funi had changed to "He's not an idiot: he's an as*hole."
Overall, I'm really, and I mean really, not a fan of Kanemitsu's 3.0 dub; it drastically changes the tone of the film. One particular instance where Shinji is being defensive as he's beginning to emotionally cave in on himself is changed to have him verbally lashing out, and a subsequent moment of deluded resolution is changed to become another example of soul-searching. It's very confused.
In the Kanemitsu dub, incidentally, one of Kaworu's lines is also very strange and seems to completely contradict the story at hand. Maybe I can bring that up when we get to 3.0 ahead of 13 August.
For some reason known only only to him and possibly others, Kanemitsu made Funimation change the line to "Now shut up and let me KILL YOU!!"
Whaaat???!
To be fair, Funimation had taken other liberties with the original theatrically screened dub before Khara made them withdraw it from distribution and redo it. (Whatever happened to You can (not) redo??) Most memorably, there was another Asuka line, "He's not an idiot: he's a brat", that Funi had changed to "He's not an idiot: he's an as*hole."
Overall, I'm really, and I mean really, not a fan of Kanemitsu's 3.0 dub; it drastically changes the tone of the film. One particular instance where Shinji is being defensive as he's beginning to emotionally cave in on himself is changed to have him verbally lashing out, and a subsequent moment of deluded resolution is changed to become another example of soul-searching. It's very confused.
In the Kanemitsu dub, incidentally, one of Kaworu's lines is also very strange and seems to completely contradict the story at hand. Maybe I can bring that up when we get to 3.0 ahead of 13 August.
I just watched it and really enjoyed it too. I had almost forgotten how early the series lays out its emotional wares for the viewer.
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Double-post Eva infodump.
Episode 3
I'd never noticed before how much Shinji's drawn and tired eyes in the opening close-up shot resemble Gendō's from the episode 21 Fuyutsuki flashbacks. The contrast between Shinji's state of numbness and Ritsuko's chipper tone as she goes over Shinji's instructions with him is just as chilling as it's intended to be.
Episode 4
Oh, lookie! The sign on Shinji's door has now been upgraded to a fetching heart-shaped little number that reads "Shin-chan no o♡heya", now using an honorific on the word for "room" to make it sound dead fancy and all.
Episode 5
The caption at the beginning of this episode is an anomaly. It reads "22 days ago". We learned from NERV operator Hyūga in episode 3, however, that the Fourth Angel attacked three weeks after the Third did in episode 1. Later that episode, Tōji comments that Shinji has since been absent from school for three days. And then in episode 4, we know from Misato and Shinji's tense chat that he went walkabout for two days beyond that.
Allowing for no other gaps, that means that the Third Angel attacked no more recently than 26 days prior to the beginning of episode 5. The original Japanese caption (I'm guessing, as it's replaced with English on the ADV DVD that I'm watching) would have most likely read "22日前", meaning 22 days before. But before what? Well, it can't be before the current point in the story, because that would put the Unit-00 activation test that injured Rei and broke Gendō's glasses four days after episode 1, which is nonsense. So it must mean 22 days before episode 1 itself, presumably? It's a small oversight in a very complex screenplay.
This apparent oversight is covered in the Evageeks encyclopedia pages, but their timeline appears to be faulty, missing the three- and two-day gaps that I outlined above:
Be careful about following the above link: I think I might've caught a brief glimpse of something potentially spoilery relating to Rebuild within the page.
Episode 3
I'd never noticed before how much Shinji's drawn and tired eyes in the opening close-up shot resemble Gendō's from the episode 21 Fuyutsuki flashbacks. The contrast between Shinji's state of numbness and Ritsuko's chipper tone as she goes over Shinji's instructions with him is just as chilling as it's intended to be.
Episode 4
Oh, lookie! The sign on Shinji's door has now been upgraded to a fetching heart-shaped little number that reads "Shin-chan no o♡heya", now using an honorific on the word for "room" to make it sound dead fancy and all.
Episode 5
The caption at the beginning of this episode is an anomaly. It reads "22 days ago". We learned from NERV operator Hyūga in episode 3, however, that the Fourth Angel attacked three weeks after the Third did in episode 1. Later that episode, Tōji comments that Shinji has since been absent from school for three days. And then in episode 4, we know from Misato and Shinji's tense chat that he went walkabout for two days beyond that.
Allowing for no other gaps, that means that the Third Angel attacked no more recently than 26 days prior to the beginning of episode 5. The original Japanese caption (I'm guessing, as it's replaced with English on the ADV DVD that I'm watching) would have most likely read "22日前", meaning 22 days before. But before what? Well, it can't be before the current point in the story, because that would put the Unit-00 activation test that injured Rei and broke Gendō's glasses four days after episode 1, which is nonsense. So it must mean 22 days before episode 1 itself, presumably? It's a small oversight in a very complex screenplay.
This apparent oversight is covered in the Evageeks encyclopedia pages, but their timeline appears to be faulty, missing the three- and two-day gaps that I outlined above:
According to Ritsuko in Episode 05, the accident with Eva-00 happened before Misato arrived in Tokyo-3, and as a result Misato didn't know why Gendo's hands were burned. Misato says that she just moved into her apartment the other day, and it is indeed filled with unpacked boxes. Given the impression that Rei was injured only recently before the first episode (due to her still being in her Plug Suit), it seems that Misato arrived in Tokyo-3 literally the day before the series begins.
Be careful about following the above link: I think I might've caught a brief glimpse of something potentially spoilery relating to Rebuild within the page.
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Exactly, there is no winning. In terms of this episode, though it shows up the fallacy of that emotionless autopilot way of functioning, the latter is effectively just walking away from the emotional toll of fighting fruitlessly when the outcome won't change regardless, and that is understandable. And nice tune, I did see the chat elsewhere between @WMD & @Neil.T on Fightstar but yet to get around to listening to their Eva-inspired albums. They remain on my to-do-list heh.
Goodness, yes, the way you've translated that sounds so, so much better than that. I was wondering if the poster text was meant to be ironic or what..... What a shame for newcomers via Netflix. Heh the Eva 3.0 changes seem comical. Oh dear...
On my recent re-watch I too saw that flashback and thought how much the younger Gendo looks like Shinji.
So still sticking with the Netflix version for now, despite the temptation to revert to the dvds. For episode 5, I found it interesting how everyone (and myself included during my first watch or two), from his friends to Misato, assumed Shinji was romantically interested in Rei, whereas in hindsight it's quite clear how his interest is shown to be more akin to one trying to understand an enigma. I felt it was likewise for Rei when she questioned him about having faith in Gendo and when she is later seen staring at Unit-01 as it is being deployed at the end of the episode. I previously mentioned how her apartment seemed out of some cyberpunk dystopian sci-fi. Thought it was a plot device to make it look extra bleak but then remembered how even small, dank spaces can be brought to life with personality and therefore the bleakness of her apartment was very much a reflection of her emptiness. Contrast with Misato's apartment heh. Another thought that came to mind was something Misato said earlier about laying the cheerfulness on a bit too heavy and how Shinji likely saw through it. That was interesting given how, even through the humour and light-heartedness Shinji has at home with Misato and at school with friends, and later on when Asuka arrives,
there are definitely signs right from the start really, about the trauma due to be inflicted.