Sexual Orientation?
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CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Rui said:
Hah, nicely put. It's also raises a very interesting point. Most people are repulsed by gay sex and that's fair enough (well, not really 'fair' but that's how it is anyway
). But straight couples aren't defined by the sex they are having so it seems to me to be a little unfair to do just that with gay male couples. It also doesn't make sense: what difference does whatever kind of sex a person is having make? :smelonpan said:
Yeah, it's definitely blindly hypocritical and pathetic but I understand why it's like that. Straight men just don't like the idea of having sex with other men (that's kind of what makes them straight
). It's wrong that they use that preference as a reason to justify hating gay men, though.Well, men are generally obsessed with sex. Certainly to a greater degree than women. I think that maybe explains why it's men that are preoccupied by the thought of gay men having sex and that leads to homophobia. Whereas women don't really care and that's why fewer women are homophobic. Rui seems to back that idea up with this comment:
Rui said:I think most women who are ok with gay men are usually fine with lesbians too
The issue of lesbians vs. gays is a pretty interesting one, actually. Most people really have no problem with lesbians, at least not as much as people have a problem with gay men. Homosexuality has never been outlawed for women, straight guys love lesbians and society overall is more accepting to lesbians than gay guys. I wonder why that is? (Actually, I'm fairly certain I know why it is, but I want to see what you guys think first!) :]
Girl on Girl action is hawt. Simple.
The generalisation of lesbians being truly hot is actually interesting, although might be true by the media and such, But, (stereotype) are not in most cases. In which, the male gender seems to totally ignore the "average" type of girl having sex and playing around and goes for the extremely sexy and amazingly buff-ting type of girls playing hose-pipes and covered in milk [Pun wasn't originally intended, but I like it.]
I don't think it has much to do with the love factor, but it goes into the way of 'how the love it made' because of the whole, Males insert themselves into each other, whilst females, do not.
I dunno, I've become slightly interesting in it now, though.
The generalisation of lesbians being truly hot is actually interesting, although might be true by the media and such, But, (stereotype) are not in most cases. In which, the male gender seems to totally ignore the "average" type of girl having sex and playing around and goes for the extremely sexy and amazingly buff-ting type of girls playing hose-pipes and covered in milk [Pun wasn't originally intended, but I like it.]
I don't think it has much to do with the love factor, but it goes into the way of 'how the love it made' because of the whole, Males insert themselves into each other, whilst females, do not.
I dunno, I've become slightly interesting in it now, though.
My gay friend at work was telling me the other day that for some reason he seems to be having trouble lately when he goes out, lesbian women keep trying to start fights with him. Although it could be just my friend as even though he is gay (long term relationship just ended) he does seem to have at least the same fascination with breasts as the average straight guy possibly higher. He may have looked at them in a way they were not comfortable with.
Is this a common thing fights between gays and lesbians? Are the gays and lesbians not as united in the support of homosexuality as would be assumed.
Is this a common thing fights between gays and lesbians? Are the gays and lesbians not as united in the support of homosexuality as would be assumed.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Dracos said:
Well, I know that every other gay guy I know is fascinating by breasts. Me too. I don't know why, they're just ... nice and interesting and stuff. So, yeah, gays appreciate breasts just as much as the straights I think :]
No, I don't think so. I've certainly never heard of any fighting or disagreement in any way between lesbians and gays. Gays and lesbians do have vastly different cultures and communities, though. However we still all unite under one banner for the important stuff (fighting for gay rights, against discrimination etc.). It was mostly gay men who were fighting for acceptance and rights for homosexuals in the US after the Stonewall riots of '69 and right up until the AIDS epidemic in the 80s. I think everyone knows just how devastating the AIDS thing was for gay men. And so, in the 90s when the epidemic had subsided, most gays were either dead or exhausted and so it was the lesbians that took over the fight. I kind of think it's awesome how much mutual respect there is between gay and lesbians even though we are, like I said, vastly different and somewhat distant in terms of culture and community :]
Whilst not 'fighting' or 'disagreement' as such, I've known people who've felt alienated from LGBT groups simply because they find that they don't have much in common with everyone there. It's basically a case of 'hey, I'm Gay', 'So am I' and then 'Sooo....'. I've never seen animosity between them, but it seems unsafe to assume that everyone feels like they're in the same boat simply because the world's cluster-***** are persecuting them in their vastly different roles for the same simple-minded reasons.CitizenGeek said:
I've also heard a gay guy also claim that vaginas have teeth. I've always wondered if he wasn't being just a little serious about it.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
kupoartist said:
I think you're right that there are plenty of gays who don't really like the culture at all and try to avoid it. Gay people are really just as diverse and varied as straight people are, so it's to be expected, I guess.
Still, I disagree that not everyone feels they are in the same boat. I'm pretty sure there is quite a strong feeling among all gay peoples that, regardless of your cultural preference or affinity with the 'community', we really are all in this together :]
I can confirm that most gay guys are terrified of vaginas, so claiming they have teeth is a good analogy for that. They're just .. yuck :s
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
So, what does everyone think about the idea of gay parenting? Is it a good idea or a bad idea?
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Kurogane said:
I know it's tempting to just assume that one father, one mother is obviously the best way to do things because, you know, it's normal. But, you're actually wrong. Everything single real study done into (by 'real' study, I mean studies by organisations independent of religious and gay groups, both of which could be seen to have biases in the research) the issue proves that gay parenting is a-ok.
The American Psychological Association has done extensive research into this, and they conclude that:
"there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children"; and "research has shown that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish" (Source)
The Child Welfare League of America reported on a 2001 study in the American Sociological Review in which both researchers found that "the children of homosexual parents show no difference in levels of self-esteem, anxiety, depression, behavior problems, or social performance, but do show a higher level of affection, responsiveness, and concern for younger children and seem to exhibit impressive psychological strength." They also suggest that "sexual orientation only matters because homophobia and discrimination say it matters". Both researchers found that gay parents were more likely to evenly share house chores (as opposed to in heterosexual relationships, where the woman almost always does at least 2 or 3 times the amount of housework the man will do) and this sets a good example for children. The daughters of lesbian couples, they find, are more likely to reject gender conventions and "are more likely to aspire to nontraditional gender occupations, such as doctors, lawyers, or engineers". They note that there are minor differences between households headed by same-sex couples and heterosexual couples but that these "should not be considered deficits." The differences, according to these people who have done the research you have not, "either favor the children with lesbigay parents, are secondary effects of social prejudice, or represent 'just a difference' of the sort democratic societies should respect and protect."
There's also about 13 more non-gay organisations that have studied gay parenting and concluded that there's absolutely nothing 'wrong' with it and that there are no adverse effects on children with gay parents. You can find that list right here.
As of 2005, there are 270,313 children in the US who have gay parents and the world hasn't stopped turning.
But anyway, Kurogane, it's not like overwhelming evidence against your uninformed homophobia is going to make to change your mind, but at least you know that nothing backs up your claims now ;]
I'm with CG on the gay parenting thing - studies do back it up fairly well. Of course, one obvious reason for this is that gay parents have to make a conscious decision to get a child, and so are more likely to take good care of it on average compared to the rest of the population, a small number of whom could care less as to the wellbeing of their children...
I said something similar earlier I think but just to restate my views in the interest of debate...
You get teased for being fat, thin, tall, short, having nerdy parents, having cool parents, liking pop music, not liking pop music, having dark skin, having light skin, being blonde, being ginger, being brunette...any reason under the sun is ammunition if someone is intent on picking on you. What's two fathers or two mothers in the big picture? Should all kids born naturally to people who later find a same sex partner be taken away and tossed into hideous orphanages? Should all single parents have their kids taken away too? Two dads are always going to be able to spend more time with a child than one dad. Similarly (not knocking single parents here) one caring dad is going to always be better than two inattentive parents of any sex. It's not as simple as "gay parenting = worse" at all.
Natural families of parents and children are a nice ideal but in the real world due to abuse, abandonment, orphaning etc there are always going to be kids out there who are in need of a welcoming home. If gay parents want to fill that role too I think it's awesome. No human being should have to grow up outside of a caring home and I've never met an actual child who cares one way or the other about social pressures; that comes later on from narrowminded bullies. Some people here seem to be passionately terrified of a little playground bullying and base their life decisions around avoiding it..?
Sorry just shocks me that straight people with no plans to adopt themselves might complain about gay people taking on children when there are so many kids out there in need of loving families to grow up in. It even stresses me out and I'm straight so don't have to deal with the personal aspect of it all...
R
You get teased for being fat, thin, tall, short, having nerdy parents, having cool parents, liking pop music, not liking pop music, having dark skin, having light skin, being blonde, being ginger, being brunette...any reason under the sun is ammunition if someone is intent on picking on you. What's two fathers or two mothers in the big picture? Should all kids born naturally to people who later find a same sex partner be taken away and tossed into hideous orphanages? Should all single parents have their kids taken away too? Two dads are always going to be able to spend more time with a child than one dad. Similarly (not knocking single parents here) one caring dad is going to always be better than two inattentive parents of any sex. It's not as simple as "gay parenting = worse" at all.
Natural families of parents and children are a nice ideal but in the real world due to abuse, abandonment, orphaning etc there are always going to be kids out there who are in need of a welcoming home. If gay parents want to fill that role too I think it's awesome. No human being should have to grow up outside of a caring home and I've never met an actual child who cares one way or the other about social pressures; that comes later on from narrowminded bullies. Some people here seem to be passionately terrified of a little playground bullying and base their life decisions around avoiding it..?
Sorry just shocks me that straight people with no plans to adopt themselves might complain about gay people taking on children when there are so many kids out there in need of loving families to grow up in. It even stresses me out and I'm straight so don't have to deal with the personal aspect of it all...
R
Slicedbreadno2
Brigade Leader
I was actually a foster child before being adopted into my family.
To me it would mean more to be adopted into a loving family regardless of the sex or orientation of the adoptees, then to miss out on a home because the family was same sex.
To me it would mean more to be adopted into a loving family regardless of the sex or orientation of the adoptees, then to miss out on a home because the family was same sex.
rite actually after 13pages of this.... i felt this statement is important enough for a seperate post...
why is this interesting enough for 13pages? seriously? and CG its funny how youve become the guru on all things homosexual... there is no answer to most of the questions, most of them are based on stereotypes but then again stereotypes are around for a reason... sometimes gays and dykes fight, sometimes they dont, sometimes gays grope tits... sometimes they dont sometimes gay men are whores... most of the time thats true... sometimes they're over the top wankers who u wanna punch in the face(like that fairy off of big bro) and sometimes theyre like me, pretty dead on :wink:
i adore penini... some people adore vagigi... some (pretend) to like a bit a both, some even like to pretend they have a vagigi or a penini... this is all pretty basic stuff guys... 13 pages?
why is this interesting enough for 13pages? seriously? and CG its funny how youve become the guru on all things homosexual... there is no answer to most of the questions, most of them are based on stereotypes but then again stereotypes are around for a reason... sometimes gays and dykes fight, sometimes they dont, sometimes gays grope tits... sometimes they dont sometimes gay men are whores... most of the time thats true... sometimes they're over the top wankers who u wanna punch in the face(like that fairy off of big bro) and sometimes theyre like me, pretty dead on :wink:
i adore penini... some people adore vagigi... some (pretend) to like a bit a both, some even like to pretend they have a vagigi or a penini... this is all pretty basic stuff guys... 13 pages?
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Rui said:
Yep, it is pretty shocking alright. I think you're totally right when you say that children are picked on for anything these days, so gays shouldn't be denied parenting rights using that excuse.
skikes said:
Eh, actually, I haven't become a guru on anything; all I've done is link to and quote from what researchers and extensive studies have found.
What are you talking about? The majority of the questions we've dealt with here have been answered to the best possible degree. Even the question of "what makes people gay" was discussed and 'answered' in a fairly difinitive way.
So, basically, just like straight people. Just substitute dykes for 'women', gays for 'men', just say that 'men are whores' instead of saying 'gay men' are. And replace "fairy off big bro" for "arrogant idiot off of big bro". If your purpose was to show how gay stereotypes are mostly right, then I think you've failed.
As if it wasn't plainly obvious how utterly uninformed you are on this topic, deriding bisexuality as being 'pretend' really seals it.