Japan not best pleased by Brexit

David Davis today confirms that the infamous Brexit impact assessments never existed. Says they would take 50 years to complete but **** that, the Tories really want their Brexit.

Hammond also revealed that the cabinet still has no agreement on what they want from Brexit. 18 months in and coming up to a single year of Article 50 time remaining.
 
The Brexit committee, intentionally stuffed with Tories, has just voted that Davis didn't lie to parliament when he said the studies existed because the studies didn't exist.

Yes, you read that right.
 
So Theresa May has 'won' a bunch of stuff we already got as an EU member and has to pay billions to get it.

This whole thing makes so much sense.
 
He's better than the other options. Who else is there? We have remainers who want to ignore democracy and then leavers who want nothing no deal so we need a middle I think JC is that middle.
 
He may not be a Brexiter in name but the chances of Commandant Corbyn staying in the EU are practically none existent, especially when you take into account that a lot of his policies are illegal under EU law.

If you want to stay in the EU then the lib dems are the only sensible option.
 
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Actually, a lot of what Corbyn wants to do is entirely possible as an EU member. Case in point, you can be in the single market/customs union without being in the EU as a whole. Corbyn has insisted on venues including national TV that you can't.

Hence a big part of my issue. His angle is to tell his followers "Oh, I would do such nice things for you and Britain. But in the mean old EU they won't let me!"

Labour members voted for "give the citizens a final vote when we know exactly what Brexit would mean." Thus it should be party policy but Corbyn/Momentum are ignoring it.

I know a lot of people here are in their teens/twentys but do some research on Corbyn. He's not the white knight he wants you to think he is
 
People can like Corbyn and believe he's better than the alternatives without agreeing with him fully on everything and without believing he's a flawless saint. And without being a "dumb kid who doesn't know any better" which frankly is a right-wing media pushed idea. I feel like I was just talking about condescension in another thread the other day...

Besides, he's not exactly wrong about the EU in my opinion. It is, at least while it's being driven by Germany (and propped up in that respect by the UK!) a free-market neoliberal exercise, which is not really particularly socialist. And the Labour Party is supposed to be a socialist party, isn't it?
 
How do you expect me to respond when every time I mention Corbyn people rush to defend in and throw in a childish joke about the Lib Dems for good measure?

I keep reviving this topic because I believe mature discussion is possible but certain people consistently prove me wrong. I can get that from drive by ********s on Twitter.
 
Do you want any mature discussion about the points I raised in my second paragraph? I promise to try my best. Otherwise I’m not sure how much help I can be to the thread, also I’m about to disappear for a few hours so responses may not be speedy.
 
It's no coincidence that the majority of people fleeing to join isis are of the young persuasion. The young are and have always been susceptible to Ideologies wether it's the ideology of socialism of that of the Islamist.

I don't think it's a right wing idea to won't our our young people to have the full picture.
 
There’s a difference between wanting people to be informed and presuming people who hold certain beliefs (usually beliefs you don’t, who’d have guessed?) are young and naive. People can be equally well informed and experienced and still hold radically different views.

Again, it’s about respect. If people categorise those who disagree with them as just being too young, or too stupid to understand that you’re right, instead of having a dialogue with them as equals, well... You can’t really expect them to show you any respect when you aren’t showing any to them (by which I don’t actually mean you personally in this instance, more the tabloid press).
 
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I've encountered a lot of young Corbyn supporters in various places. All very eager to insist he's the second coming and despite all the talk of "for the many, not the few" apparently if you don't support Labour you're just some sad fat cat, salty that your 'team' isn't winning at politics.

There are a raft of serious issues with Labour under Corbyn and the cult built around him generally don't care. I joined LD a year ago. Not happy Farron outed himself as a homophobe (I'm pro-gay/equality) and what energy he did give the party has been lost under Cable who seems half asleep. Even then I've always called out the coalition as a betrayal, even when LD MPs and councillors try to spin it.

Bottom line, I've had more than my fill of tribal party politics and I simply feel people are too eager to get tribal defending Corbyn. If people can stay away from that, I promise you I call out the LDs when they need a boot up the arse.
 
I'm presuming nothing, I just so happen to work in the town library which is right next to a university so as you can imagine we get a lot of students, and some of the things they come out with makes me question if there actually being taught the full picture in there.

Very few of have heard of Lenin even less have heard of Mao or Pol Pot, they refer to the millions of people who starved to death in the Soviet union as just a stupid mistake or just a little famine totally unrelated to the farmers being rounded up and shipped off to Siberia. Some even arrogantly claim that Stalin didn't do socialism right and that if they were there then they would've ushered in the utopian paradise foretold in the communist manifesto ( yeah right they would've been shot in the back long before they managed to do any good assuming they are paragon of virtue they claim to be).

Yes people do have different opinions and there's nothing wrong with that but purposely removing/hiding the bad from people isn't a good idea especially when the ideology in question has a habit of Stirling up violence.

Edit purposely not perversely
 
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@HellCat I like to think I called out Labour plenty when I thought they needed a boot up the arse as well - I think the difference is I thought they needed a boot up the arse during New Labour whereas you think they need a boot up the arse under Corbyn. The reason I'm not particularly critical of them at the moment is because I happen to agree with most of what they're doing, unsavoury as you (or Ken) might find that from your viewpoints on the political spectrum. But that's the truth. I don't change my beliefs to fit Corbyn's, Corbyn is just doing what I want someone, anyone, to do in British Politics which is to provide a viable left-wing alternative to the status quo we've now had for close to 40 years.

@Watanabe Ken most of those students probably aren't studying politics or Russian history, so are likely to be about as informed on those things as say, your average tabloid reader who never went to university. However all those people are still allowed to vote, so I think that's probably fair. If we're going to judge every political ideology based on the very worst things that have been done in it's name, I think we'd probably agree we're currently in a crony capitalist system, where entwined interests of private business and the state leads the state to act in whatever way is best for private enterprise without really giving a damn about the people of a country? Have fun learning.

Edit purposely not perversely
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That sounds like it should be a rule for Wikipedia editors.

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In more general terms concerning the thread topic, I think the events of the last few days have made the idea of "hard Brexit" much less likely - Granted if any and all Brexit is a red-line issue for you then that's probably not going to change things much, but I think for those who accept Brexit is happening but desire as little disruption to the status quo with the EU as possible, things are looking very positive.

However if we do leave the single market and there's still going to be no hard border in Ireland, I think a lucrative career as a smuggler across an open Irish border awaits. The idea of returning to the land of my Irish ancestors and the likely line of work of a few of my coastal English ancestors does hold a certain charm...
 
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