thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Yeah 1-14 are MOTW no doubt.
Get in the Simulwatch - Neon Genesis Evangelion [End of Eva - 21/7]
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D
Deleted member 4555
Guest
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Yeah Monster Of The Week.
It’s basically what describes episodic series’ with little over arching plot.
It’s basically what describes episodic series’ with little over arching plot.
ayase
State Alchemist
I think what creates a lot of the fascination with Eva is that there's clearly a lot of subtext but Anno himself has never actually conclusively spelled any of it out. Which personally I happen to like, because it leaves people free to form their own interpretations and come to their own conclusions about what's important and what things mean, which makes it a very personal thing to multiple people for different reasons.
Oddly enough, I'd liken it in that respect to the works of David Lynch - Another guy who clearly has a lot going on in his head and obviously intends to impart ideas to his audience, yet never actually tells anyone what the meaning of anything is. I do like discussing it, but the point I stop liking discussing it is if someone claims to know for sure the correct interpretation and that theirs is objectively correct, at which point they can s*d off, because they don't. Which is very similar to my tolerance line in discussions with religious people.
I've mentioned this before, but consider there was a character in Gunbuster named Jung Freud. There are a lot of Freudian overtones in Evangelion. In fact almost all the relationships in the show (even the characters' relationships with the Eva units themselves) can be interpreted in terms of Freudian and Jungian ideas of psychosexual development.
D
Deleted member 4555
Guest
Ah right, okay. I'm not au fait with all these anime-related abbreviations. Thanks 
WMD
Guild Member
This is from the wikipedia page for the show, so can be taken with a pinch a salt but is still interesting:
Evangelion has been interpreted as a deeply personal expression of Hideaki Anno's own emotional struggles with depression.[43] During the production of the series, he became interested in mental illness and psychology.[47] According to him, Rei is a schizophrenic character[70] and she represents the unconscious of Shinji.[62][71] Shinji has an Oedipus complex,[72][73] and is characterized by a libido-destrudo conflict.[74] Similarly, Ritsuko has an Electra complex, in which she loves Gendo, a sort of substitute for her father figure.[75] Anno himself stated that he identifies with Shinji, Asuka and Misato in a conscious manner,[76] whereas Rei and Kaworu are part of his subconscious, with Kaworu as his Jungian shadow.[77] It has even been suggested that Shinji's entering into Unit-01 is a Freudian "return to the womb", and that his struggle to be free of the Eva is his "rite of passage" into manhood.[78] The series contains many references to philosophical and psychoanalytic concepts, such as the oral stage, introjection, oral personality, ambivalence,[79] and the death drive,[80] including some elements of the works of Sigmund Freud,[81][82] Arthur Schopenhauer,[83]Søren Kierkegaard and others.[84]
Evangelion has been interpreted as a deeply personal expression of Hideaki Anno's own emotional struggles with depression.[43] During the production of the series, he became interested in mental illness and psychology.[47] According to him, Rei is a schizophrenic character[70] and she represents the unconscious of Shinji.[62][71] Shinji has an Oedipus complex,[72][73] and is characterized by a libido-destrudo conflict.[74] Similarly, Ritsuko has an Electra complex, in which she loves Gendo, a sort of substitute for her father figure.[75] Anno himself stated that he identifies with Shinji, Asuka and Misato in a conscious manner,[76] whereas Rei and Kaworu are part of his subconscious, with Kaworu as his Jungian shadow.[77] It has even been suggested that Shinji's entering into Unit-01 is a Freudian "return to the womb", and that his struggle to be free of the Eva is his "rite of passage" into manhood.[78] The series contains many references to philosophical and psychoanalytic concepts, such as the oral stage, introjection, oral personality, ambivalence,[79] and the death drive,[80] including some elements of the works of Sigmund Freud,[81][82] Arthur Schopenhauer,[83]Søren Kierkegaard and others.[84]
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
It uses phrases from Freud as ep titles such as “weaving a story”
As a sidenote: yes. This ↑.
But yes, there's loads to analyse within Eva — absolutely so. I just think that some people overanalyse some of the mechanics of the plot somewhat, especially when Anno himself will claim that he made it up as he went along. (Which is probably partly true.)
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Really interesting to read @WMD's Wikipedia excerpt, as well as @D1tchd1gger's comparisons with the manga. It's fascinating to see that Sadamoto's panel of Rei smiling is actually very similar to the scene as it appears in 1.0. I assume that that chapter of the manga pre-dates 1.0 (released in 2006) by some way. I'm noticing more and more little details from Sadamoto's take on the story that have found their way into Rebuild. Interesting...
ayase
State Alchemist
@WMD I agree with almost all of that interpretation, but where it diverges on a personal level for viewers from Anno's intentions (and half of that, as correctly pointed out by "it has been suggested" is unconfirmed interpretation) is the different characters and behaviors individual viewers identify with and understand, as well as those they don't. Which is perfectly natural because we're not all Hideaki Anno. That perhaps explains a lot of people's attitudes towards Shinji, but also Asuka and Rei too, both of whom elicit quite strong opposite reactions from different people, and not just in the usual "waifu wars" way - Rei for example happens to frustrate me horribly. She's a perfectly fine character but one that I, on a personal level, find very hard to understand the actions and motivations of. Asuka, by contrast, I feel I understand almost completely.
The bit about "death drive" was very interesting. I think a lot of Freud's concepts make sense, but some are also wild conjecture verging on complete b*ll*cks, and while that's not a concept I've come across before it's one that definitely strikes a chord. It's a little uncanny that you should bring this idea to my attention to just as I finished playing SOMA, which makes me examine some of my thoughts about that game in a new light (have been meaning to write a mini-review in the games thread for about a week, time I got on that).
The bit about "death drive" was very interesting. I think a lot of Freud's concepts make sense, but some are also wild conjecture verging on complete b*ll*cks, and while that's not a concept I've come across before it's one that definitely strikes a chord. It's a little uncanny that you should bring this idea to my attention to just as I finished playing SOMA, which makes me examine some of my thoughts about that game in a new light (have been meaning to write a mini-review in the games thread for about a week, time I got on that).
And I'm the complete opposite of that! Fascinating.
I once read somewhere that Eva plays out like an animated Rorschach test. That sentiment has always stuck with me.
D1tchd1gger
Shrine Maiden
Yeah the chapters making the first 3 volumes were out before the show had aired. However the manga run didn't finish until well after the first rebuild movie. There's even an epilogue with characters from the rebuild movies.
See the History section:
Neon Genesis Evangelion (manga) - Wikipedia
Indeed so, yes. I've had a peek at that, and it's very interesting. I've sometimes even wondered whether Sadamoto might have some inside info from Anno there.
That's probably a bit of a stretch, though.
WMD
Guild Member
And I'm the complete opposite of that! Fascinating.
I found Asuka super annoying the first time I watched Eva and I've always liked Rei's character. Although with time I have softened towards Asuka as well.
With both their arcs though I think as an audience you're supposed to not esp like them at first as both are dismissive of Shinji to begin with and you get to understand them as Shinji does.
Captaaainuniverse
Time-Traveller
have I done bad for the simulwatch?
I've binged up to episode 19....
when I watched it before (in my patch&parrot years) I didn't really understand much about it, but seeing it now, I don't think it's quite like a rorschach test, I just think most of the series is metaphor, of course from anno's interest in and struggle with mental illness, it's up to the viewer to see if they know what a certain thing in the series means.
shinji of course showing signs of depression, the most prominent part of his personality being that he wants to please other people, and gendo, but once he makes the effort (namely piloting the EVA) it ruins him
the EVAs themselves are another quite obvious one, as someone mentioned the "return to the womb" the EVA sorrounding them, protecting them like a mother or equally important loved one. the angels are a bit harder for me, they could be either facets of a working personality or each of them are a mental illness
and by 14 - 15 the statement of it being MOTW is both true and untrue, if you pay attention to what most of the angels are doing you notice a pattern - have you noticed the one that goes either straight for NERV HQ or an EVA? there's 13 of him by how far I'm into it
I've binged up to episode 19....
when I watched it before (in my patch&parrot years) I didn't really understand much about it, but seeing it now, I don't think it's quite like a rorschach test, I just think most of the series is metaphor, of course from anno's interest in and struggle with mental illness, it's up to the viewer to see if they know what a certain thing in the series means.
shinji of course showing signs of depression, the most prominent part of his personality being that he wants to please other people, and gendo, but once he makes the effort (namely piloting the EVA) it ruins him
the EVAs themselves are another quite obvious one, as someone mentioned the "return to the womb" the EVA sorrounding them, protecting them like a mother or equally important loved one. the angels are a bit harder for me, they could be either facets of a working personality or each of them are a mental illness
and by 14 - 15 the statement of it being MOTW is both true and untrue, if you pay attention to what most of the angels are doing you notice a pattern - have you noticed the one that goes either straight for NERV HQ or an EVA? there's 13 of him by how far I'm into it
WMD
Guild Member
Episode 8
Our firey redhead appears! It's interesting that Shinji meets a loud, brash and supremely confident girl which allows him to start to get to know his female side symbolised by him ending up in a female plug suit. Or maybe it was done just for laughs.
Continuing the great framing I loved her introduction as a small figure in the distance then a close up in silhouette before getting a proper look at her.
Watching them go from bickering to working together just in the nick of time was really exciting.
The scene with Gendo at end is great as well. Builds the mystery and leaves you thinking is he really trying to save humanity? Hes so sinister in it.
Our firey redhead appears! It's interesting that Shinji meets a loud, brash and supremely confident girl which allows him to start to get to know his female side symbolised by him ending up in a female plug suit. Or maybe it was done just for laughs.
Continuing the great framing I loved her introduction as a small figure in the distance then a close up in silhouette before getting a proper look at her.
Watching them go from bickering to working together just in the nick of time was really exciting.
The scene with Gendo at end is great as well. Builds the mystery and leaves you thinking is he really trying to save humanity? Hes so sinister in it.
I checked episode 7 again, and you're absolutely right, @WMD.
We cut to a shot of the red "ERROR" message on the monitor, then the screen clears and shows a reboot process. Misato then falls to the floor as the cooling rods are suddenly moved, presumably by the computer-controlled mechanism rather than by her own physical effort, as the on-board systems return to functioning normally. Shinji proclaims it a miracle, but Misato, while of course relieved, is left disappointed that this "miracle" was "set up by someone". Ritsuko reports to Gendo that everything went according to plan, "except for Captain Katsuragi's actions". Perhaps the system had been rigged right from the start to reboot just before total meltdown? And obviously, protecting her own a*se, Ritsuko was not in a position to tell Misato about any of it, and so let her risk her neck by boarding JA. Interesting...
Indeed so; this was my first time seeing that episode in three years, and I was too busy just refamiliarising myself with the overall content to be able to take in all the subtleties. I also hadn't noticed how, when Misato remarks to Ritsuko how it's genuinely impressive that JA is able to walk successfully, Ritsuko looks pensive, as if waiting for something that's just about to happen...
That's how dense Eva can get, as you say.
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Episode 8
Red? I didn't know Unit-02 was red.
Asuka strikes! And drives a bus straight through the existing character dynamics of the show. A big, bright-red bus at that.
In other news, it appears that the Angel attack was caused by the presence of some rather... special cargo.
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Episode 5–8 thoughts:
*holds up left hand *
Sh*t.
*holds up right hand *
Fan.
*claps them together *
Asuka's here.
Captaaainuniverse
Time-Traveller
... I think it might be a western thing with getting in touch with the feminine side, none of the stuff i've watched gives me the feeling that male characters are out of touch with their feminine side at some point, it all just looks like it's a joke