Get in the Simulwatch - Neon Genesis Evangelion [End of Eva - 21/7]

[Neil.T]

I came across this while searching for something else in a post and thought it might be worth chiming in:

On the whole, I think EoE is somewhat more direct in its storytelling
. . .
Misato's line, "Live your life standing up, then you can die" caught my attention, as I wondered if this had originally been intended to recall Pancho Villa's apocryphal last words "Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees", albeit perhaps lost in translation.

That's an interesting line.
It must be entirely the work of the Netflix script adaptation, because it's very different from the fansubs pinched off the Internet subtitles used by Manga Entertainment on their EoE DVD. Those have Misato's line directed at Shinji rendered as:
"Like it or not, you're still alive! Get moving and DO something! You can die later."

It's very close to the original Japanese. If it was pure accuracy of translation that you were after, I'd have gone for:
"You're still alive, aren't you!? Then get ahold of yourself. You can die after."

Speaking of those fansubs, as well as the mistranslation found in Misato's explanation of the nature of humanity in relation to Adam and Lilith, there's another subtitle that's always bugged me because it makes no sense. It's Misato's reaction to Shinji pleading for help from Asuka:


I finally got around to having a proper listen to the Japanese dialogue the other week, and the translation I ended up with was:
"At a time like this...! Leaning on a girl, running away, fooling yourself...!"

I can assure you that that would be an accurate translation, so... I've absolutely no idea how the fansubber came up with what's in the screenshot above.

 

[ayase]

I finally got around to having a proper listen to the Japanese dialogue the other week, and the translation I ended up with was:
"At a time like this...! Leaning on a girl, running away, fooling yourself...!"

I can assure you that that would be an accurate translation, so... I've absolutely no idea how the fansubber came up with what's in the screenshot above.

I do kinda get that one. Presumably, Misato's intention in saying Shinji is "leaning on a girl" is to emasculate him, but "leaning on" someone is more often used in English to denote someone putting pressure on somebody to do what they want - The person doing the leaning is the one in the position of power. By contrast "Hiding behind (a woman)'s skirt" is definitely a phrase used in English to denote a man (or boy) who is relying on a woman to help or protect him.

 

[Neil.T]

By contrast "Hiding behind (a woman)'s skirt" is definitely a phrase used in English to denote a man (or boy) who is relying on a woman to help or protect him.

One quick Web search later...

Wow, in more than 38 years on this planet I had never come across that phrase. How bizarre. I wonder if "skirts" being plural in that caption and being mixed in with "little girl" is partly what threw me off the trail.

Anyhow, cheers, ayase. That finally makes sense now.

 

[Professor Irony]

Funnily enough, I always associate the ‘hiding behind a woman’s skirt’ turn of phrase with a man or boy who is excessively close to their mother.

Imagine if it was Rei, not Asuka...

 

[Neil.T]

Detective Evangelion sees Shinji roped into investigating a spate of strange murders in Tokyo-3

. . .

Any further details on the game in English are pretty sparse

I came across a thread about the game while browsing the Evageeks forum for the first time in ages recently. There are a couple of consecutive posts in it that are particularly insightful, so here are the links to them:

[GAME] Detective Evangelion - EvaGeeks.org Forum - an Evangelion Fan Community

For talking about all other entries in the Evangelion franchise: from the various manga and video games to merchandising and various video/audio releases.,[GAME] Detective Evangelion, discussion of neon genesis evangelion

forum.evageeks.org

[GAME] Detective Evangelion - EvaGeeks.org Forum - an Evangelion Fan Community

For talking about all other entries in the Evangelion franchise: from the various manga and video games to merchandising and various video/audio releases.,[GAME] Detective Evangelion, discussion of neon genesis evangelion

forum.evageeks.org

I haven't even read much of it myself yet, but the first post has descriptions of each of the eight "cases", along with a bunch of links to images.

The second one contains images of all the new characters who turn up (dead ) during the course of events.

 

[Professor Irony]

As the non-canon spinoffs go, I’m impressed at how much thought seems to have gone into Detective Evangelion. It’s a shame it’s not available in English, it genuinely seems to add something to the wider franchise.

Changing the subject slight though, a friend of mine was watching a VHS fansub of EoE recently and mentioned to me that the early home video releases seem to have been presented more like two straightforward episodes of the series, with altered opening credits and a next episode preview. Said preview is particularly interesting, as it uses a live-action tracking shot of Gainax’s office, and could possibly have added some context to the large chunk of deleted live action footage? It already seemed as though the live-action segment was intended to replace the fantasy school sequence in the tv series as Shinji’s vision of what their lives could have been like, but the preview seems to explicitly reinforce that.

 

[Neil.T]

As the non-canon spinoffs go, I’m impressed at how much thought seems to have gone into Detective Evangelion. It’s a shame it’s not available in English, it genuinely seems to add something to the wider franchise.

I read the synopses of each of the cases on Evageeks, and that game seems completely barmy!
I can't decide which part is the craziest, but the bit with Misato's father has got to be a contender.

Definitely a shame it's not available in English.

Changing the subject slight though, a friend of mine was watching a VHS fansub of EoE recently and mentioned to me that the early home video releases seem to have been presented more like two straightforward episodes of the series

Ohh, this is interesting.

Yeah, apparently it's the "video version" of The End of Evangelion, as explained in this Evageeks article:

Guides:Episode 25'/26' Video vs. The End of Evangelion - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

The short explanation is that there are some interesting little differences between the two versions, mostly the Episode 26' preview shown in the Prof's post as well as some small details like title cards and such. There is also one cut that differs between the two versions, though, which is explained in more detail the Evageeks article above.

There are so many different versions of the different bits of Eva by this point.
For example, there are the differences between EoE and the Rebirth part of Death & Rebirth:

Guides:Rebirth vs. Episode 25' - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

(Interestingly, Manga's DVD of Death & Rebirth actually uses the animation from EoE but with Rebirth's title cards.)

Then you've got the differences between the original "On Air" versions of episodes 21 to 24 versus their Director's Cuts:

Guides:Episode 21 OA vs. DC - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

Guides:Episode 22 OA vs. DC - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

Guides:Episode 23 OA vs. DC - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

Guides:Episode 24 OA vs. DC - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org

wiki.evageeks.org

The quirk here is that the "original" versions included on ADV's Platinum Edition and equivalent Japanese releases are apparently not the original episodes at all, and are actually based off of the Director's Cut versions with some adjustments that recall the originals, again as explained in the individual articles above. That basically creates kind of a third "interim" version of those episodes. Evangelion being complicated as usual.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

All the excitement regarding the upcoming, & forever delayed, final rebuild movie prompted me to revisit the original anime after over a decade. I really enjoyed spending an equal amount time on this thread whilst watching, everyone's thoughts have been really insightful and shed light on easily missed details too. Maybe (or not) it's better late than never to ramble about some of my thoughts.

One point that struck me was how I inaccurately remembered it as being light-hearted at the start whereas this time I felt the first few quarter actually foreshadowed a lot of the darkness the show focuses on later, with Shinji's initial struggles demonstrated quite effectively, the train shown to be one of the loneliest places you could be in a crowd, the almost cyberpunk dystopian feel of Rei's apartment complex, the long shot between Shinji & Misato at the train station, etc. I felt it was only with Asuka's entrance that the show become light-hearted and of a monster-of-the-week format for a little respite before descending to the end of the world with every character's unravelling. Another feature I had forgotten was how much aural attention was paid to the surrounding world with background conversations, announcements and sounds often in the foreground. And there I thought it was only Kyoani that truly focused on fleshing out the surroundings heh.

I sympathised even more with Asuka this time as though, and this is a gross simplification, despite having the same basic fears as Shinji, she was his opposite in that she would always try and blindly fight her way through as opposed to running away, with neither approach being wrong nor right on its own, until their respective and inevitable breakdowns. Regarding the whole Kaworu & Shinji relationship, I personally always felt it was platonic but with a definite misdirection placed to hint at romance. The awkwardness & shyness Shinji demonstrated are not exclusive to romantic situations but in fact relevant to a lot of interactions including with those you may have a lot of respect for and desire a friendship with, in my opinion. I had completely forgotten that Kaworu was only in one episode!! Not did I recal how he had hinted at Rei's true nature. Very interesting comments about Rei being a blank canvas for the audience to project their views on to and I think I'm coming around to that view though I probably still prefer the lost lamb that doesn't belong image in my head heh (wait I'm projecting...).

I agreed with a lot of the comments regarding both the original and EoE endings. I remember also thinking when first watching that the original ending was quite spot on and true to the heart of the series, but probably by taking into account and making allowances for the known budget issues. I had also forgotten how explicit it was in stating that it was instrumentality that was being depicted. I will always regards EoE as a masterpiece and for me it really helps complete the series. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to watch either one or the other as an ending but always both as a complete package. There are definite contrivances in Shinji's behaviours in EoE which on my first watch I just refused to believe as logical. However now I do feel now that some truly fit with the portrayal of someone completely broken and shattered with nothing left but despondency and not caring for anyone's thoughts or opinions, whilst I still view others as artistic contrivances for Anno to unleash his fury, as others have far more eloquently explained! Interestingly the rebuild movies have for me hinted at each ending being the result of a reset and repeat of events after instrumentality.

I will always unashamedly hold Evangelion as the pinnacle of this, and probably all other art forms. It has a sincerity that evokes a response not elicited by anything else I've experienced. Now to re-watch the rebuild movies and hope the final one cements the franchise's legacy.