why i love anime why do you

[Animefreak17]

well said Neferpitou well said

 

[shira]

. It still doesn't answer the lack of disabled people portrayal on TV, unless you want to bring some up?

I don't see how this is a major problem, myself. You either have to find people who are disabled and want to act, or you have to write a story with disabled characters.

Oh, John Locke in LOST spent a lot of time in a wheelchair by the way.

They often adapt existing great literature to appeals to widest fan base as possible when made into tv/films.

"Great" literature is often limitless in length. If the author wants to write a long book, they can. Now, when making a film adaptation of it, you are limited in terms of how much time you have. No one is going to sit and watch an 8 hour film now, are they? So things get cut out if they're minor, and some 'long' major events get cut and changed a little; the purpose of this? To accelerate the character and/or plot development that took part in those places! They're necessary in many cases, but I'm sure you're going to want to bring up some unnecessary ones anyway.

$1-3 million an episode is still an obscene budget compared to what Anime series or even shows made in the UK cost to make.

Lets think sensibly about this first; I remember news in the last year or so that anime producers/writers/artists are underpaid - that will have a big influence. Also, you're not filming anything, so you don't need to travel costs of getting to location, and the sophisticated filming equipment to make something look good. You also have to pay actors significantly less; I don't have figures but I'm sure VA's get paid far less than actors who appear in these American shows.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to type this the first time, but, also American live actions sell far more than anime; it only makes sense there will be a bigger budget! The profit made off of the last release can go towards the next new show/film, the success of it will also encourage others to invest in subsequent works!

Very naive, product placement is a lot more common than you think.

I've seen blatant advertising in anime too y'know...

Theirs something wrong with that morally and wrong for spreading this false knowledge around.

Oh, because your morals are absolute and correct, I assume? You say they're spreading this like they want people to have massive misconceptions on the past; what advantage is that? They're probably trying to save money on their already high budget, as you keep pointing out.

The point is they have an too perfect looking cast which over glamorizes over the past.

So... what? How do you solve this? Find ugly people who can't act, but do look ugly? How do you know what people looked like in the past? "There's no way" as if people couldn't be beautiful without cosmetics? Many, many famous leaders and populations have been noted to be beautiful through use of their own cosmetics to give them smoother skin etc.

It amazing how many people dismiss Anime without watch it.

And it seems you have a massive biased against live action because of its budget. You may have seen it; but it doesn't mean you've gone into it with an open mind.

 

[ilmaestro]

This thread was oddly interesting to read in parts, and just plain odd in others.

 

[Animefreak17]

well ithink what Neferpitou is trying to get a cross is if a fictitious character with disabilitys and/or illnesses is trying her/his best of doing something then people that are reading the manga or watching the anime would be inspired to try his/her best even if that fictitious character isn't real.

 

[Jaymii]

My use of the word illness could have been subsituted for anything. Give me some sort of condition, and I should be able to find you an example. I only know of Nana in Geass who genuinely suffers from something. (Whitebeard...)

I really don't understand how any of this stuff pertains to telling stories. It's crazy pedantic because you think everything is one-note and on the base level. Again: Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights, Buffy, Parenthood, The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica - the list goes on. These are fantastic stories and sometimes feature a "sickness" because of how it affects our lives as a whole. They also offer an interesting perspective and a way to view our world.

You're historical soap idea seems to come purely from The Tudors and Spartacus, btw. Watch Deadwood - tell me that's glamorous. I really need examples; you may not have watched The Tudors, but you keep saying "often" and that means nothing to me. Cite some shows!

And, it's interesting that whenever you discuss it, you're fixated on the wider television and popular culture landscape, and uh, that's not what I'm discussing. I'm talking about TV fans and critical circles. They know what it's like to appreciate something niche, and do in fact watch anime.

Just... don't antagonise me like I'm not an anime fan.

 

[Ian Wolf]

Re: My earlier comment about British TV not regularly showing stuff that is not in English.

I've just learned that BBC Four is broadcasting an Icelandic sitcom called Næturvaktin (The Night Shift) next week. I'll probably give that a try.

 

[KingJimmeh]

They always recently showed a Danish crime series called Forbrydelsen (The Killing) not so long ago, which I have been catching up on.

 

[Neferpitou]

. It still doesn't answer the lack of disabled people portrayal on TV, unless you want to bring some up?

I don't see how this is a major problem, myself. You either have to find people who are disabled and want to act, or you have to write a story with disabled characters.

Oh, John Locke in LOST spent a lot of time in a wheelchair by the way.

Still not that many examples of disabled people portrayal on TV is there?

To portrayal a disabled character you don't necessary have to be disabled yourself you know. Countless actors have portrayal disabled characters in the past to great acclaim.

Why do you have to write story specific for disabled people? Why can't they exist in mainstream shows? It brings the attitude up that if you not perfect you can't have a role in mainstream society with out being a figure of pity.

They often adapt existing great literature to appeals to widest fan base as possible when made into tv/films.

"Great" literature is often limitless in length. If the author wants to write a long book, they can. Now, when making a film adaptation of it, you are limited in terms of how much time you have. No one is going to sit and watch an 8 hour film now, are they? So things get cut out if they're minor, and some 'long' major events get cut and changed a little; the purpose of this? To accelerate the character and/or plot development that took part in those places! They're necessary in many cases, but I'm sure you're going to want to bring up some unnecessary ones anyway.

Time maybe an issue for a Film, its not so much issue for TV series. Maybe remove certain material is necessary in the large context but inserting more new characters or plot lines is not. I have seen plenty adaptions where its not time constants which forces changes but the need to appeal to the widest audience as possible. That is the problem.

$1-3 million an episode is still an obscene budget compared to what Anime series or even shows made in the UK cost to make.

Lets think sensibly about this first; I remember news in the last year or so that anime producers/writers/artists are underpaid - that will have a big influence. Also, you're not filming anything, so you don't need to travel costs of getting to location, and the sophisticated filming equipment to make something look good. You also have to pay actors significantly less; I don't have figures but I'm sure VA's get paid far less than actors who appear in these American shows.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot to type this the first time, but, also American live actions sell far more than Anime; it only makes sense there will be a bigger budget! The profit made off of the last release can go towards the next new show/film, the success of it will also encourage others to invest in subsequent works!

USA budgets are still very inflated compared to the budget of equal good UK shows. You never hear about actors being paid the equivalent $1 million dollars per episode for UK shows. There not many UK shows which have budgets and wages salaries of the USA shows.

The underpaid nature of Anime is one of the reason I like Anime. People who do Anime are not in for it for the money, they do it because they have such passion for Anime.

Sadly most of the time the same can't be said about the people involved in live action media. So many use it as a stepping stone to make more money instead of better quality work.

Very naive, product placement is a lot more common than you think.

I've seen blatant advertising in anime too y'know...

Its somewhat hard to do product placement with Anime as they often set in fantasy settings. It would bit hard to stick product placements of modern day goods in fantasy setting like ONE PIECE for example.

More live action media is set in the present day than in fantasy setting of Anime. So there more chances of actual having product placements in live action media. With the majority of Anime having such lower TV figure in the first place there little incentive to have product placements.

Animes Series rely on small dedicated groups of fans purchasing the expensive DVD's and merchandise.

Theirs something wrong with that morally and wrong for spreading this false knowledge around.

Oh, because your morals are absolute and correct, I assume? You say they're spreading this like they want people to have massive misconceptions on the past; what advantage is that? They're probably trying to save money on their already high budget, as you keep pointing out.

So changing the history to suit the audience so they simply can make more money is right then?

They don't generally make changes because of limitation of the budget. It simply to make the TV/film more sell-able! A film which has more viewer appeal has got a better chance to make money.

The point is they have an too perfect looking cast which over glamorizes over the past.

So... what? How do you solve this? Find ugly people who can't act, but do look ugly? How do you know what people looked like in the past? "There's no way" as if people couldn't be beautiful without cosmetics? Many, many famous leaders and populations have been noted to be beautiful through use of their own cosmetics to give them smoother skin etc.

Don't plaster them in ton's of make-up to give them unrealistic beautiful imagine would be start. You know you can always apply makeup or add face prosthetic to make people look more nature to that era.

You have to remember the majority popularity wouldn't look as good of those of today with our vastly superior sanitation, Health care & Make-up.

When famous people of those era where noted about the beauty. Those comments where probably more to do with gaining favor through flattery.
It would be less likely you would have people commenting about how ugly famous person was without the fear of possible reprisals.

With beauty you need a yard stick to compared with. It wouldn't be hard for some famous to be consider beauty of that age with their higher wealth to try beauty treatments and multiply assistance to manage their looks. Compare that with the rest of population who would suffer through poverty, disease, bad tooth care and uncleanness.

It amazing how many people dismiss Anime without watch it.

And it seems you have a massive biased against live action because of its budget. You may have seen it; but it doesn't mean you've gone into it with an open mind.

Budget Is only one of the many reasons I brought up. Apart from the ones I mentioned previously I could mention quite a few more be it the endless remakes, reviving old shows, level of freedom, censorship or just not as entertaining for me.

I and probably everyone else on this forum has been watching USA films/TV a lot longer than Anime. My views comes for the years of constants disappointments I have received from watching live action media well before I start watching Anime.

My use of the word illness could have been subsituted for anything. Give me some sort of condition, and I should be able to find you an example. I only know of Nana in Geass who genuinely suffers from something. (Whitebeard...)

I really don't understand how any of this stuff pertains to telling stories. It's crazy pedantic because you think everything is one-note and on the base level. Again: Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Friday Night Lights, Buffy, Parenthood, The Wire, The Sopranos, Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica - the list goes on. These are fantastic stories and sometimes feature a "sickness" because of how it affects our lives as a whole. They also offer an interesting perspective and a way to view our world.

You're historical soap idea seems to come purely from The Tudors and Spartacus, btw. Watch Deadwood - tell me that's glamorous. I really need examples; you may not have watched The Tudors, but you keep saying "often" and that means nothing to me. Cite some shows!

And, it's interesting that whenever you discuss it, you're fixated on the wider television and popular culture landscape, and uh, that's not what I'm discussing. I'm talking about TV fans and critical circles. They know what it's like to appreciate something niche, and do in fact watch anime.

Just... don't antagonise me like I'm not an anime fan.

Firstly, when I have an antagonist you like your are not an Anime fan? Surely I have been antagonist more with you criticizing my point of view? Am I not allowed for my own point view without other people question it?

Characters in all stories suffer from some kind of issues. If the characters doesn't have some kind flaws or issues with themselves or the world around them, then there is no real motivation for the story at all.

I want example of characters with disability in Mainstream shows who are shown not as victims/Focus. But people who living out there lives in society.

How is it one-note and on the base level just to see disabled just living out there lives as best they can like the rest of us? They won't receive the constant sympathy in real life and frankly don't want to receive it like majority disabled characters in dramas do. They want to be treated as equal and not a focus of pity.

The series you are talking about are a select few compared to complete dross around them. For every Deadwood there many more shows/films which over glamorizes the past to suit TV audiences taste. I Have non interest in watching an fictitious account of the past when I can read the uncut accounts of the past instead. It certainty more mentally beneficial and interesting than alter history accounts in Films/TV.

You still talking about a small amount of people who respect Anime. Compared to mass amount people who refuse to even try Anime to even form an opinion.

You may disagree their criticism of these live action TV shows but its their choice and it wrong to criticize them for their choices because it doesn't match your point of view.

 

[Rui]

American cartoons have a reasonable number of positive characters with major disabilities (Professor X in the X-Men series, Toph in Avatar etc) so I'd say the lack of representation is more a live action vs animated thing than a cultural thing. It's significantly easier to represent some problems in animation than in live action, and there are fewer challenges than there would be with actually disabled actors. This will probably change as disabilities become less of a barrier to people - perhaps we'll see more genuinely disabled actors getting parts.

In House (falling back on my limited TV knowledge with the same show, even though I don't like it) the main character has a disability, and there were a large number of news stories about how difficult it made filming and how the (non-disabled in real life) lead actor ended up in pain.

There's tons of product placement in non-historical anime lately. As well as the obvious Pizza Huts and iPhones, the Tiger & Bunny staff made an entire series around the concept.

R

 

[Jaymii]

These shows I bring up are still very successful. Just look at the Emmys - Breaking Bad, Mad Men - these shows are everywhere in them. And it's also just occurred to me that the leads son in BB, a prominent character, has cerebral palsy. It's not a storyline, and I only think it's been mentioned in passing once. There's also a great show on about dissociative identity disorder airing that I also forgot.

I have no where to take this if you don't cite examples that rectify this situation in anime. You can't be using different guidelines for different mediums. I'm respectful of preference, but this lacks reasoning for me. Budgets, ailments, looks - such a wide spectrum its like you're searching for something to hate and when I provide examples, they aren't mainstream enough?

Sorry about the final line of the other post, I was just frustrated.

Couple other bits:

- I find it almost offensive that you suggest some people aren't in it for good or creative reasons. Everyone's striving for the best, I'm sure. It's a back-and-forth between the creative and the business sides of things. The creative's really want to tell their stories and more and more often, they are able to do that...

- Matthew Weiner who runs Mad Men has complete and utter creative freedom on that show. A lot of the cable nets have that, and that's why people love that environment. There's still fantastic work that can be done on broadcast but it's always going to be a struggle with ratings (Community and Fringe spring to mind).

- The attractiveness thing... it reminds me of of the inception of Mad Men (again) when Weiner was casting the show, he wanted to have David Chase (whom he worked with on The Sopranos) with him but Chase didn't want to cast Jon Hamm because he was "too pretty" for that role. I'd argue seeing Don worn down as he is now and the Hamm performs it makes it more important. I'm sure I'm remembering the story slightly wrong, too. Feel free to correct.

- I mentioned Temperance Brennan (on Bones), Sheldon Cooper (on Big Bang Theory) and Abed Nadir on Community in an earlier post. They all have asperges but it's not noted upon, and they are all network shows with audiences varying from 5 - 15 million watching. Glee, the most mainstream of shows, also features a reoccurring character (Becky) with Down's Syndrome and Artie who's paraplegic in the main cast. (Jason Street, from Friday Night Lights, also was paralegic and had a fantastic arc - in case you may not have noticed, that show was real. It's run by the same guy who now down Parenthood. I'm not saying there's a lot of this stuff, but TV isn't the only offender. Comics and, again, anime, feature this.

- I still think shows that make people think about what things were like, be it through exaggeration or such are more effective than sticking to the real. That said, there's some real bad stuff out there living in that historic soap genre.

 

[Vashdaman]

Well this has been a slightly bizzare thread.

well ithink what Neferpitou is trying to get a cross is if a fictitious character with disabilitys and/or illnesses is trying her/his best of doing something then people that are reading the manga or watching the anime would be inspired to try his/her best even if that fictitious character isn't real.

No, I think the point of us needing more characters with disability being portrayed positively/realistically in popular media is so that the many people living with disabilites have something which they can relate to.

To be honest I don't think anime or even animation in general is any better than live action when it comes to this, all popluar media in general is pretty disgraceful when it comes to this. Its easy to find examples of shows that have a secondary background character or two with a disibility, however its a lot harder to find shows with protagonists who deal with a disability, or even shows that deal with the subject in any kind of detailed way.

This is not just a problem with TV/movies, for example see how many childrens books you can find that deal with disabiity or have disabled lead characters, there are few but no where near enough.

There are a few exceptions of course such as the manga Real, and that childrens TV show that was on BBC(or was it ITV?) a little while ago which was also about wheel chair basketball(I was sure it was also called Real?? Probably wrong though).

 

[Reaper gI]

Very naive, product placement is a lot more common than you think.

I've seen blatant advertising in anime too y'know...

Its somewhat hard to do product placement with Anime as they often set in fantasy settings. It would bit hard to stick product placements of modern day goods in fantasy setting like ONE PIECE for example.

More live action media is set in the present day than in fantasy setting of Anime. So there more chances of actual having product placements in live action media. With the majority of Anime having such lower TV figure in the first place there little incentive to have product placements.

Animes Series rely on small dedicated groups of fans purchasing the expensive DVD's and merchandise.

1000 Fantasy anime (including contempory stuff like Kanon and Clannad), 1500 set in the real present, the same set in sci-fi.
Historic settings number about 400. A good 2/3 of anime can have product placement.

There's a lot of product placement in anime, Code Geass, Black Laggon, Rebuild of Evangelion and Kara no Kyoukai all feature it prominently.

Still more common to get anime advertising a specifc product line;
kids shows tend to sell toys,
late night anime sell their characters.

In a way the whole show is product placement for it's chara goods, tie-in manga, tie-in game release. Eroge adaptations often coincide with the all-ages console port.

 

[Animefreak17]

guys come on this forum is for *why you love anime* not * compare anime to live action series and say which is best
i want to get back to the point
why do you love anime so much

 

[Neferpitou]

Its somewhat hard to do product placement with Anime as they often set in fantasy settings. It would bit hard to stick product placements of modern day goods in fantasy setting like ONE PIECE for example.

More live action media is set in the present day than in fantasy setting of Anime. So there more chances of actual having product placements in live action media. With the majority of Anime having such lower TV figure in the first place there little incentive to have product placements.

Animes Series rely on small dedicated groups of fans purchasing the expensive DVD's and merchandise.

1000 Fantasy anime (including contempory stuff like Kanon and Clannad), 1500 set in the real present, the same set in sci-fi.
Historic settings number about 400. A good 2/3 of anime can have product placement.

There's a lot of product placement in anime, Code Geass, Black Laggon, Rebuild of Evangelion and Kara no Kyoukai all feature it prominently.

Still more common to get anime advertising a specifc product line;
kids shows tend to sell toys,
late night anime sell their characters.

In a way the whole show is product placement for it's chara goods, tie-in manga, tie-in game release. Eroge adaptations often coincide with the all-ages console port.

Firstly where did you get those figures?

It's not as simple to say that it been set in the present day that it can constantly show product placement. Shows like Bleach or YuYu Hakusho may have periods of the show set in the present world but largely they are set in fantasy setting. The same opportunity are also limited when series have large section set in space like Space Operas or Mecha Series. Other reason can affect a series chances of product placement like if they use a different written language like HUNTER X HUNTER.

I maybe a bit naive myself but I hardly notice any Product Placement in Anime. I couldn't remember any in Black Lagoon, Code Geass or the first Rebuild Eva movie. Even if their WERE, they are some of the biggest Animes in recent year. Not many Animes can hope to match their success and receive their size of audience. Audience size is the crucial factor in Product Placement.

I notice however a lot of time where they have to rename something as they haven't got permission to use the actual brand. Maybe in that case however I may notice the misspelled products as they stand out.

Anime gets a much smaller audience than live action media and so you won't receive anywhere near the same revenue from product placement. Anime reachs a worldwide fraction of the audience that live action media gets.

Anime generally even If very popular only run for one series of 13/26 Episodes. USA TV series often get recommissioned, giving the chance to brands to see how successful a series is worldwide and to see what type of audience they attract before buying their way on to the show.

Anime has to rely on its dedicated groups of fans purchasing the expensive DVD's and merchandise to make the vast majority of their returns.

While it's fair to say that all Anime's are design to sell a tie in products. But that certainty also true for all forms of entertainments. At least with Anime they are mainly only trying to sell goods based on itself. I find that system better than trying to sell other company brand on the sly.

To be honest I don't think anime or even animation in general is any better than live action when it comes to this, all popluar media in general is pretty disgraceful when it comes to this. Its easy to find examples of shows that have a secondary background character or two with a disibility, however its a lot harder to find shows with protagonists who deal with a disability, or even shows that deal with the subject in any kind of detailed way.

How about the ones I mentioned before like: Shanks from ONE PIECE, Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist, Guts from Berserk or Vash from Trigun. All main, major or powerful characters in there respected series. I couldn't imagine many USA action series or movies ever having disabled characters having such heroic roles model with disabilities. Apart from Ashley 'Ash' J. Williams from evil Dead trilogy of course .

They may not go about the hardship incurred that much of having disability. But in a way that is better. You don't look at them with pity because they have disability. You look at them with a feeling of awe, respect and idolizing them. You look past them even having a disability in the first place, which is frankly the best positive image you can have.

These shows I bring up are still very successful. Just look at the Emmys - Breaking Bad, Mad Men - these shows are everywhere in them. And it's also just occurred to me that the leads son in BB, a prominent character, has cerebral palsy. It's not a storyline, and I only think it's been mentioned in passing once. There's also a great show on about dissociative identity disorder airing that I also forgot.

I have no where to take this if you don't cite examples that rectify this situation in anime. You can't be using different guidelines for different mediums. I'm respectful of preference, but this lacks reasoning for me. Budgets, ailments, looks - such a wide spectrum its like you're searching for something to hate and when I provide examples, they aren't mainstream enough?

Sorry about the final line of the other post, I was just frustrated.

Couple other bits:

- I find it almost offensive that you suggest some people aren't in it for good or creative reasons. Everyone's striving for the best, I'm sure. It's a back-and-forth between the creative and the business sides of things. The creative's really want to tell their stories and more and more often, they are able to do that...

- Matthew Weiner who runs Mad Men has complete and utter creative freedom on that show. A lot of the cable nets have that, and that's why people love that environment. There's still fantastic work that can be done on broadcast but it's always going to be a struggle with ratings (Community and Fringe spring to mind).

- The attractiveness thing... it reminds me of of the inception of Mad Men (again) when Weiner was casting the show, he wanted to have David Chase (whom he worked with on The Sopranos) with him but Chase didn't want to cast Jon Hamm because he was "too pretty" for that role. I'd argue seeing Don worn down as he is now and the Hamm performs it makes it more important. I'm sure I'm remembering the story slightly wrong, too. Feel free to correct.

- I mentioned Temperance Brennan (on Bones), Sheldon Cooper (on Big Bang Theory) and Abed Nadir on Community in an earlier post. They all have asperges but it's not noted upon, and they are all network shows with audiences varying from 5 - 15 million watching. Glee, the most mainstream of shows, also features a reoccurring character (Becky) with Down's Syndrome and Artie who's paraplegic in the main cast. (Jason Street, from Friday Night Lights, also was paralegic and had a fantastic arc - in case you may not have noticed, that show was real. It's run by the same guy who now down Parenthood. I'm not saying there's a lot of this stuff, but TV isn't the only offender. Comics and, again, anime, feature this.

- I still think shows that make people think about what things were like, be it through exaggeration or such are more effective than sticking to the real. That said, there's some real bad stuff out there living in that historic soap genre.

Firstly I don't think whatever rewards a shows received can always be the greatest measure of the quality for Movie or TV series. They tend have personal Bias towards particular people in the industry or genre of film. I can't imagine a film by Pixar no matter the quality wining the best film at the Oscars.

The lack of reasoning is somewhat of unfair accusations. Its not my fault you only looking at the face value what I am saying instead looking deeper into it. As it looks like I have yo go into it a bit deeper to make you understand what I am saying:

Level of Freedom: With Anime you given an level of freedom where you can do whatever you envisioned. No matter the grand scale, time, subject matter you can do whatever you want. Without a good budget it may mean have more static imaginary and less animation but it won't stop you producing what you want for the screen.

You just don't have anywhere near level of creative freedom with Live Action Media. You always fighting against budget, time and acceptable subject matter and other problems.

For an example of this Imagine the nightmare of trying to turn ONE PIECE into a live action piece. For a TV series it would be simply too expensive to make full stop at any level of quality. While with actual blockbuster films you may have the budget to cope. But with the much shorter film run times of films even doing as series films you would have to remove the majority of story to make the project possible.

With ONE PIECE running for near over 20 years how would you be able to keep a cast looking in there 20's when they would be in there 40's? Could you get away with the level of violence, blood or suggestive comment found for a series which it meant to have wide appeal in the west.

ONE PIECE is not even the worse example of possible of title to Adapt. In HUNTER X HUNTER, Gon has been around 12 years old for last 13 years! The level of violence a minor like Gon received would never be acceptable in USA production. Also the way Hisoka is grooming Gon to fight and kill him (the unsavory double meaning there as well) would never be acceptable on the big screen.

While it's fair to say that long running anime are a rarity. But it incredibly common for Anime to have sequel years maybe Decades after, Like Slayers for example. Because of the issue of time you would have to change many of the cast again because of aging or set it into the future. That isn't an issue with Anime and you can just carry on from where the last series left off.

Not as entertaining for me: When I say this I mean in the sense that entertainment I desire is not a semi-realistic shows but a true form escapism.

Theses shows you are championing are portraying events that have or could have happen in real life. For me that is not true escapism, I desire something to take me away from that, a true fantasy that could never happen in real life.

If a series is set in real life setting and is just dealing with issue that can/have happened in real life then I have no interest in watching a fictional version of it. I much rather make my own opinion at looking at different sides of the argument from actual fact. I find it simply lazy just taking the creator opinion for mine own.

I just don't think it's worth overly analyzing a TV series/ Film. When the overriding purpose of any form of entertainment is financial success.

What ever you thinking you going to learned is simply going to be heavily influenced one sided thoughts of the creator. While it maybe more affective way to get a message across it won't give a balance view on an issue. Enjoy all forms of entertainment but I just don't simply see the point taking anything else more than that from it.


Its sad reality of American culture and human nature that greed soon set in. How many in the USA film industry would work for pittance received in Anime industry?

The only one which ever make massive fortune in Anime/Manga industry are generally the Mangakas with long running serials. It's not even easy money to earn once they get popular. They still have to carry on spending hours each and everyday drawing their Manga and the great difficulties that involves. They spend literally years of hours of their life constantly working on just one project.

The attractive thing is more an issue with Drama set in the past. Giving them unrealistic presentation of the past. All society suffers from issue of attractiveness.

But are the character you highlighting positive role models that aren't just secondary character for pity. Also have they truly got over their conditions?

Arguable the most famous character with disability of recent time is probably house. But house just doesn't seem that a great role model to me. His whole cynical personalty and drive is based on the wrong diagnose it received which caused his condition. When I watch him in the series he never seem to fully get over his condition. Disable people have to get over whats been dealt to them if they ever going enjoy their lives. House may have changed in later seasons however. As I have only seen parts of the early season and not much latter ones.

 

[Animefreak17]

well said Neferpitou well said

 

[Vashdaman]

To be honest I don't think anime or even animation in general is any better than live action when it comes to this, all popluar media in general is pretty disgraceful when it comes to this. Its easy to find examples of shows that have a secondary background character or two with a disibility, however its a lot harder to find shows with protagonists who deal with a disability, or even shows that deal with the subject in any kind of detailed way.

How about the ones I mentioned before like: Shanks from ONE PIECE, Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist, Guts from Berserk or Vash from Trigun. All main, major or powerful characters in there respected series. I couldn't imagine many USA action series or movies ever having disabled characters having such heroic roles model with disabilities. Apart from Ashley 'Ash' J. Williams from evil Dead trilogy of course .

They may not go about the hardship incurred that much of having disability. But in a way that is better. You don't look at them with pity because they have disability. You look at them with a feeling of awe, respect and idolizing them. You look past them even having a disability in the first place, which is frankly the best positive image you can have.

Yeah but those characters you mentioned aren't in any realistic way living with a disability. They may have lost a limb or so(usually an arm), but they have just gotten them replaced by a futuristic looking robotic one that can do everything their old one could do if not more. In other words its just to give the character an interesting back story and some visual flair. By all means those characters are not much impeded(if at all) in their daily life by their missing body parts. It's just a typical anime style "battle wound", but one that doesn't actually effect(affect?)character much. There's nothing wrong with this at all but you can't say that these shows deal or portray with disability in any meaningful way.

There are tons of similar characters to ones you have named in live action media. How many shows or films have you seen with a blind character? There are quite a few films that portray blind protagonists maturely and realistically(such as Ray). Theres also a quite moving dipiction of a paralysed man (Nishi's partner) in Hana-bi. These are just a couple of examples of the top of my head but if I actually thought about it I could probably make a very long list of good examples. There are also many good films that portray characters who are struggling with various mental disabilities.

I admit there are still far too few good examples in maintream live action media, however anime still has a long way to go before it even catches up. There is absloutely no way that anime in any better than live action in this particular regard.

 

[Rui]

I maybe a bit naive myself but I hardly notice any Product Placement in Anime. I couldn't remember any in Black Lagoon, Code Geass or the first Rebuild Eva movie. Even if their WERE, they are some of the biggest Animes in recent year. Not many Animes can hope to match their success and receive their size of audience. Audience size is the crucial factor in Product Placement.

Code Geass has Pizza Hut most famously - but the Pizza Hut logos were removed for the international release. Pizza Hut regularly gets its logo into various anime series.

In Evangelion Rebuild the two most memorable product placements were Lawson and UCC coffee, though there were more than those two (haven't seen it for a long time now!). I think the Eva Doritos were squeezed in too? Eva has to be one of the most cross-marketed series around so it wasn't surprising they popped some real brands in there; just because you may not be familiar with the brands doesn't mean they don't stand out like a sore thumb if you are.

(I don't have Black Lagoon so can't comment on that one, though not all anime has product placement, of course.)

R

 

[ilmaestro]

I like things like (insert name of recent series that I've forgotten), where it has a Lowson that is noted as being open from 7 until 11. Does that actually count as product placement? Because you get "non-official" stuff like that all the time in anime and manga.

In general though, I don't think product placTHE POWER OF PIZZA HUT COMPELS YOU

 

[Neferpitou]

To be honest I don't think anime or even animation in general is any better than live action when it comes to this, all popluar media in general is pretty disgraceful when it comes to this. Its easy to find examples of shows that have a secondary background character or two with a disibility, however its a lot harder to find shows with protagonists who deal with a disability, or even shows that deal with the subject in any kind of detailed way.

How about the ones I mentioned before like: Shanks from ONE PIECE, Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist, Guts from Berserk or Vash from Trigun. All main, major or powerful characters in there respected series. I couldn't imagine many USA action series or movies ever having disabled characters having such heroic roles model with disabilities. Apart from Ashley 'Ash' J. Williams from evil Dead trilogy of course .

They may not go about the hardship incurred that much of having disability. But in a way that is better. You don't look at them with pity because they have disability. You look at them with a feeling of awe, respect and idolizing them. You look past them even having a disability in the first place, which is frankly the best positive image you can have.

Yeah but those characters you mentioned aren't in any realistic way living with a disability. They may have lost a limb or so(usually an arm), but they have just gotten them replaced by a futuristic looking robotic one that can do everything their old one could do if not more. In other words its just to give the character an interesting back story and some visual flair. By all means those characters are not much impeded(if at all) in their daily life by their missing body parts. It's just a typical anime style "battle wound", but one that doesn't actually effect(affect?)character much. There's nothing wrong with this at all but you can't say that these shows deal or portray with disability in any meaningful way.

There are tons of similar characters to ones you have named in live action media. How many shows or films have you seen with a blind character? There are quite a few films that portray blind protagonists maturely and realistically(such as Ray). Theres also a quite moving dipiction of a paralysed man (Nishi's partner) in Hana-bi. These are just a couple of examples of the top of my head but if I actually thought about it I could probably make a very long list of good examples. There are also many good films that portray characters who are struggling with various mental disabilities.

I admit there are still far too few good examples in maintream live action media, however anime still has a long way to go before it even catches up. There is absloutely no way that anime in any better than live action in this particular regard.

It not aimed to be a realistic way to show disability but a way to show characters with disabilities as positive role models. Edward Elric and Guts have both have to had to adjust to their disabilities and both have had to face issue time to time because of their disability.

Its never going to be realistic portrayal anyway, as Anime itself aren't realistic or a lot of the time even is meant to be realistic.

There been plenty of blind characters in Anime as well you know.

It's not about showing characters struggling with their disability so they become figures of pity. Its about showing people who overcoming there disability so they can be role models to everyone not just for people who have same disability.

I maybe a bit naive myself but I hardly notice any Product Placement in Anime. I couldn't remember any in Black Lagoon, Code Geass or the first Rebuild Eva movie. Even if their WERE, they are some of the biggest Animes in recent year. Not many Animes can hope to match their success and receive their size of audience. Audience size is the crucial factor in Product Placement.

Code Geass has Pizza Hut most famously - but the Pizza Hut logos were removed for the international release. Pizza Hut regularly gets its logo into various anime series.

In Evangelion Rebuild the two most memorable product placements were Lawson and UCC coffee, though there were more than those two (haven't seen it for a long time now!). I think the Eva Doritos were squeezed in too? Eva has to be one of the most cross-marketed series around so it wasn't surprising they popped some real brands in there; just because you may not be familiar with the brands doesn't mean they don't stand out like a sore thumb if you are.

(I don't have Black Lagoon so can't comment on that one, though not all anime has product placement, of course.)

R

Thanks for the Info. But if its only 1 or 2 a series its not exactly a lot of product placements. I think of how many are in something like James bond where its not just a several general day brands. Its nearly every item in the film is product placement be it the Cars, the clothing, mobile phone, etc.

 

[Jaymii]

Ha, great response. I personally think anime needs to have some more positive female role models before it can get to achieving anything further. TV isn't great with it, but it's a little bit further than anime currently.

I think television and films are just too much of a different medium to compare with things like "non-ageing" because, of course it's problematic. Shows don't have the budget to keep vampires looking the same. They are too different: comics/cartoons and anime/manga would obviously be the more apt comparison.

The autistic characters I mentioned are, as a whole, pretty awesome role models. They are all successful and although their conditions make their lives a bit of a struggle, people like Bones, a millionaire anthropologist - probably a good person to look up to. A better one, in terms of acting, would be the son in Breaking Bad with cerebral palsy - he's just an actor doing his job! Good stuff. House is Sherlock Holmes, not a great model really. I'm not keen on that idea anyway. Buffy's a female role model because the creator specifically wanted her to be; it's not something that happens often.

I think anime being escapism, is just that. It doesn't reflect, or even attempt to, reflect life the same way TV does. I find it easier to emotionally connect to living, breathing actors so I appreciate anime more as an artform than I do anything else. It makes it harder to watch things, but it also makes other stuff (things that I might sometimes connect with) incredibly rewarding.

I think with the product placement thing; might be obvious in certain places, and James Bond obviously prides itself on it (it has that wish-fulfilment thing going for it) but bares probably a similar percentage in both anime and TV. (Somebodies gotta pay for it. Anime might cost less, but it's also watched by less.