The Visual Novel Thread

Only thing I would correct you on is that visual novels are really a sub-genre of adventure games, not the other way around. The ones that are really just adventure games simply aren't visual novels in the first place, they're adventure games. Also not sure if I would say most VNs are set in schools (and certainly not most ADV games), when I think of the genre I most immediately think of horror scenarios (some of which do indeed feature schools, but not in the way that "is set in a school" would imply).
 
Reaper gI said:
The Pesona seires are part dating sim not visual novels. By comaparason the Tales series have VN elements.
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Ok, I take back the Persona statement, realising my mistake about the VN/Date Sim catergorising.

However...
Some lingo for you, as you have no idea what a dating sim is.
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Ouch... Thorn in the side, much?
Thanks for the technical info and that, but there seems to be a little sting in the tail of that statement.

Not taking a shot at your research skills here, Reaper, but more like a shot at the people who have organised this catergorising.
I would not call Clannad or Shuffle very "Adventurous" so what the hell? Maybe more like Social-interaction game (SIG) or something, but it's not like you travel to different countries in all these games. A fair amount is, as you've mentioned Reaper, in schools. "Lets venture to the Gym and slay some evil Jocks." ... That's my excitement in the game totally bamboozaled.

Reading those old Sonic gamebooks with the multiple choices is more adventurous than this.
 
Reaper gI said:
Maxon said:
Instead of defending it you attack my argument. That's pretty weak, but I am detecting massive butthurt in your post through your use of strawman arguments, so it's no surprise. How about proving me wrong by showing me not every harem is as ****** as this instead of bitching about how I'm just bitching at an entire genre (which I am in fact not doing like you seem to think). I'm not so arrogant as to think that an entire genre can suck.
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There are no good characters in Shuffle. Each girl is made with stock personalties and are pretty much one dimensional. I prefer women that I can identify without resorting to differentiating between hair colour and academic/housewife ability. As for Rin, he's a self insert character, so he's a blank slate and has no personality to begin with. In short, everyone is a stock character you can find in every other ****** harem. Also, the "characterisation" is non-existant since each route consists of boring school life/dates, really awkward and badly written sex scenes (being given the choice to cum inside each girl? Really?) some crying about an identity crisis and a resolution where nothing is changed except for the fact that the girl has come to accept her problems.
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Genre/ genre tropes highlighted. It's half your arguement.
At least give an exaple of a harem game that isn't like this. You even stated it as being typical for the genre.

NB: the game is highly rated for the CG, a game isn't just it's plot.
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No I didn't state it as typical of the genre. I said it was an example of what you'd find in a ****** harem (note that I never used the word "all"), so it's not like I know of any good ones. I am a "noob" after all. :roll: Oh, and using genre tropes to prove a point? Really?

Look, how about you stop twisting my words or deliberately misinterpreting them and actually show me something good about this game or at least defend the damn thing? Nothing you have said in your reply has even touched on what I asked you to do. All you're doing is attacking my argument instead of doing the sensible thing and proving me wrong.

If you're going to dick about and claim I'm bashing an entire genre, then I have nothing more to say to you on this matter.
 
ilmaestro said:
Only thing I would correct you on is that visual novels are really a sub-genre of adventure games, not the other way around. The ones that are really just adventure games simply aren't visual novels in the first place, they're adventure games. Also not sure if I would say most VNs are set in schools (and certainly not most ADV games), when I think of the genre I most immediately think of horror scenarios (some of which do indeed feature schools, but not in the way that "is set in a school" would imply).
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I put them as being a sub genre of AVG as the first point. All NVL games can be called ADV but not vice versa. So had to distinguish what defined NVL.
Shizuku, Kizuato, and ToHeart: the Visual Novel series by Leaf for which the sub genre is named are not all NVL games. ToHeart is a plain ADV.

Most adventure games that get released here may be horror, in Japan they're more VNs of/with popular anime and eroge and their ports.
xbox 360 adventure games at HMV japan, of the 26, 7 aren't set in schools, an another isn't a romance, that leaves 18 school romance stories, at my count http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/3_900_911_911007/


Chaz said:
I would not call Clannad or Shuffle very "Adventurous" so what the hell? Maybe more like Social-interaction game (SIG) or something, but it's not like you travel to different countries in all these games. A fair amount is, as you've mentioned Reaper, in schools. "Lets venture to the Gym and slay some evil Jocks." ... That's my excitement in the game totally bamboozaled
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The adventure video game genre has no conection to the film/book genre of the same name. Confusing I know.
It's defined by gameplay not content; It's chosing options in a given situation to advance a narative with no or very little "gameplay".
They traditionaly consist of: typing in comands as to what to try (text-adventure), clicking on random stuff on the screen (point and click/ hunt the pixel) , chosing from multiple choice options (like VNs do) or combinations of the above.

SIG as you put it are social interation with real people, like MMORPGs but without the RPG bit. There is one that includes Clannad and Shuffle characters as NPCs, Ai Sp@ce.
 
Reaper gI said:
ilmaestro said:
Only thing I would correct you on is that visual novels are really a sub-genre of adventure games, not the other way around. The ones that are really just adventure games simply aren't visual novels in the first place, they're adventure games. Also not sure if I would say most VNs are set in schools (and certainly not most ADV games), when I think of the genre I most immediately think of horror scenarios (some of which do indeed feature schools, but not in the way that "is set in a school" would imply).
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I put them as being a sub genre of AVG as the first point.
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Ah yeah fair enough, you explained the same thing twice, once briefly and then in more detail, read it first as one long explanation starting at "visual novel" and ending at "ADV" somehow. As for the origins of the name, yes, Leaf definitely called their games the Leaf Visual Novel series, but this doesn't actually make ToHeart a visual novel as the term has come to be used, as you point out. In fact, the Japanese wiki entry (only thing I can be bothered to look up atm) lists the adoption of the term "Visual Novel" (as far as a progression from "Sound Novel") as coming about specifically out of respect for Shizuku, the first game, rather than the Leaf Visual Novel series as a whole.

As for the nature of ADV games, this covers such a wide range of games in Japan that I think only looking at Xbox 360 games (which tend to be ports or remakes of otaku-flavored games by design) is totally nuts. What about older SEGA/Chunsoft stuff (none of which gets released over here)? How about the fact that "proper" games like Siren and Clock Tower are also ADV games? How about the fact that Zelda and Biohazard belong to sub-genres of adventure games? Here is Amazon's list of PS2 games in the "Adventure" category. I don't want you to go through all 1090, btw. :p
 
That includes action adventure, Resident Evil is not an ADV, nor is GTA.
Which should normaly be discounted as they have gameplay (that requires reacton time, like FPS elements), action adventure is not a sub genre of adventure, though it might have some adventure elements.
The list is still mostly bishoujo and otome games.
Looking at the PSPs list it looks a lot more like the 360 than the PS2 does.
The PC is next to entirely romance.
Take Amazons list with a pinch of salt too. Blazblue is down as adventure on PC, and that's a fighting game.
 
Action adventure *is* a sub-genre of adventure, end of story basically.

Blazblue's home release is both a fighting game and a visual novel, btw, and is categorized as such in any Japanese listings.
 
Action-adventure is a hybrid genre, it's a sub genre of action but not of adventure.
Named after Adventure for the Atari 2600('79).
Rather than Collosal Cave Adventure for the PDP-10('76) which the adventure genre is named after.

It's an action game with adventure elements (problem solving, narative).
It's discounted from ADV, as they're defined by having no signifacant (reaction based) gamplay element.

An adventure game with action elements is still adventure, like little busters!.
 
Wait, I thought we were talking about Japanese genre definitions? Those have little to nothing to do with... well, anything, really, least of all games from the 70s. As you yourself have pointed out (iirc), what the Japanese consider to be a "Simulation RPG" has nothing to do with the what the Western concept of those words would be. Similarly, in Japan action-adventure games are a sub-genre of adventure games, and Survival Horror is just a catchy re-naming of a certain branch of action-adventure games (you have to hand it to Capcom on that score, truly exceptional marketing copy).

If you want to simply rephrase to "ren'ai ADV" (which I would consider the sub-genre of adventure games - or arguably the sub-genre of ren'ai games, depending on which way you want to look at it - that we're really talking about to be) I'd agree with you.

Either way, I'm not sure that arguing over genre-title semantics in 2010 (when game genres have largely been broken down to the point where content-based labels are far more useful and applicable than game-system based ones) is getting either of us very far. ^^; Your initial point about the difference between ren'ai simulation and ren'ai adventure games and visual novels was far more important.
 
Stu - That can be taken 2 ways; you think:
1) me and Ryo are the same person... Same IP but I'm not that close to him. ;) Kikyo doesn't have her own body, you know...
2) that I'm kinky... Are you trying to chat me up? *Wink, wink*
 
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So what has this thread turned into, "VN community vs Maxon"
just ignore him, he's always anal.

Anyhow about 20% of Fate/hollow has been translated by fans, and something called 'Chaos gateway' was realesd around late october on xbox live for 240 points. As you can expect it was a horror VN to fit in with the season
 
Otaku-san said:
So what has this thread turned into, "VN community vs Maxon"
just ignore him, he's always anal.

Anyhow about 20% of Fate/hollow has been translated by fans, and something called 'Chaos gateway' was realesd around late october on xbox live for 240 points. As you can expect it was a horror VN to fit in with the season
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Did they rape it anally or is it just t/l'd?
 
Kirrimir said:
Otaku-san said:
So what has this thread turned into, "VN community vs Maxon"
just ignore him, he's always anal.

Anyhow about 20% of Fate/hollow has been translated by fans, and something called 'Chaos gateway' was realesd around late october on xbox live for 240 points. As you can expect it was a horror VN to fit in with the season
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Did they rape it anally or is it just t/l'd?
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What I am I replying too here, you quoted all I blasted said. For all I know you could be questioning Maxons arse or the VN's I just mentioned.
To answer both, it's any ones guess.
 
Otaku-san said:
Did they rape it anally or is it just t/l'd?
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What I am I replying too here, you quoted all I blasted said. For all I know you could be questioning Maxons arse or the VN's I just mentioned.
To answer both, it's any ones guess.[/quote]

You have to be a monkey with down syndrome to not realise what i was talking about. please answer the question.

also Translators note: t/d'd means Translated hurp
 
Kirrimir said:
You have to be a monkey with down syndrome to not realise what i was talking about. please answer the question.
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Jokes on you are passed that onto your genes. I remember it like yesterday little Kkk was only there and seven quarters (of square feet). He was about to pick up a slice of humble pie, when my right toe made swift contact with his posterior, thankfully I was wearing woollen breeches at the time so I was able to contain pissing myself with excitement. The syndrome happened to flow "down" through and out my foot into K's buttocks. I was going to pass it on to some dog turd, but this was the next best thing

Kirrimir said:
also Translators note: t/d'd means Translated hurp
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K ty 4 that TL note, FYI i new PFIGS but not t/d'd'd'd
LOLBBQWTF :) :D :p :D :) :) :) :D :thumb:
 
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