Shiroi Hane
Dragon Knight
Remember that rant about the licensor they never wanted to work with again? I suspect that was also related to Haruhi and Bandai USA.Ath said:
The News Thread (for news that does not need a thread)
- Thread starter ilmaestro
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Ath
Pokémon Master
Ah yes I remember, 'Company B' or something. I remember them mentioning that they had to pay for the dub for Haruhi rather than it getting thrown in as part of the licence as usual. I agree with Ayase in that it makes me wonder why any company in their right mind would want to deal with the Japanese licensors when you consider how they act. Of course I understand the reasons why they act the way they do (at the end of the day we really dont make a difference to them) but I still don't like it.
I shudder to think what antics Toei are going to pull now that Manga have to deal with them...I can't wait to see the inevitable Jerome twitter meltdown!
I shudder to think what antics Toei are going to pull now that Manga have to deal with them...I can't wait to see the inevitable Jerome twitter meltdown!
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
I have no sympathy for Manga about the Haruhi issue; they were warned constantly about the mono issue so as far as I'm concerned they went into that willingly.
The fact that they couldn't operate a PS3 properly (you're telling me 6 people couldn't successfully use a PS3? You're seriously telling me that?) being what separates me from a HD version of Disappearance is utterly galling.
And the rest has been stated up and down.
Manga have all the resources in the world to succeed but they would rather wallow in their own self pitty time and again (Ostensibly because "WAH! MEAN OLD UK FANS HATE US AND ARE WORSE THAN HITLER WAH" makes for a better thing to sell to the papers than "WE DUN F***ED AND CANT OPERATE A PS3 DERP DERP DERP").
The fact that Aniplex went above their heads to release Birdy The mighty on Netflix speaks to how utterly contemptible they are as a company.
I wish for all the best between Manga and Toei, I'll just be sure to collect the seven shades of **** (read; UK DB/Z/GT and One Piece releases) that they lump out of each other.
The fact that they couldn't operate a PS3 properly (you're telling me 6 people couldn't successfully use a PS3? You're seriously telling me that?) being what separates me from a HD version of Disappearance is utterly galling.
And the rest has been stated up and down.
Manga have all the resources in the world to succeed but they would rather wallow in their own self pitty time and again (Ostensibly because "WAH! MEAN OLD UK FANS HATE US AND ARE WORSE THAN HITLER WAH" makes for a better thing to sell to the papers than "WE DUN F***ED AND CANT OPERATE A PS3 DERP DERP DERP").
The fact that Aniplex went above their heads to release Birdy The mighty on Netflix speaks to how utterly contemptible they are as a company.
I wish for all the best between Manga and Toei, I'll just be sure to collect the seven shades of **** (read; UK DB/Z/GT and One Piece releases) that they lump out of each other.
Yeah, because they're titles distributed by you for Kazé.
At least they finally elaborated with K-ON!. Such a shame that the DVD sales were so low. However, I have to wonder if one of the reasons for that was because of the Single release nature, or people waiting for the BD boxset. It is nice to see that they are outright admitting that releasing it in singles was a mistake.
And yet they recently announced the licenses of a butt-load of 12/13 episode series' and not one of them has a confirmed Blu-ray release.
Also an interesting comment on that article about how the Madman blu-ray of The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya apparently works on UK PS3s.
HdE
Comic Book Guy
ayase said:
Regarding pricing - how does this sit with regard to price fixing laws, I wonder?
Bottom line, I agree that the situation is messed up. Like I keep saying, if you want to sell your product to a foreign market, you do well to guage the spending habits of your target market there, and their attitude to picking up your stuff. I've known people who were interested in checking out anime, but put off by prices they felt were unreasonably high. Either that, or they didn't like the idea of hunting down several individual volumes to watch a show in its entirety.
I don't see why we should have anime especially cheap just because we are British (which is what is comes down to, ultimately). Sure, a localised price which doesn't lead to us getting hammered by the horrendous exchange rate is fine, as is bundling things up in a form which is more palatable to the sales channels and customers here (i.e. no singles), but the prices Manga sell at (and want to sell at?) are ridiculously low and yet they still don't sell many copies. For the series which sell particularly badly I question whether they'd have sold any less had the price been two or three times more, only the profits would have been significantly higher. Anime is ridiculously cheap in this country.
I don't like paying a lot any more than anyone else, but I also don't like having a load of aborted series in ghastly packaging with missing content and distributor-introduced glitches on my shelves in the name of saving money. I don't like that we're supposed to be excited about ancient stuff like DBZ when newer, better series aren't coming over at all, and blu-ray is dead in the water.
It doesn't make any sense to me why we'd have cheaper anime than the much larger fanbase in the US when releases sell significantly more copies over there and they don't have 20% VAT and BBFC fees factored in. The obsession Manga has with price and aggressive devaluation is driving the UK industry into a dead end.
R
I don't like paying a lot any more than anyone else, but I also don't like having a load of aborted series in ghastly packaging with missing content and distributor-introduced glitches on my shelves in the name of saving money. I don't like that we're supposed to be excited about ancient stuff like DBZ when newer, better series aren't coming over at all, and blu-ray is dead in the water.
It doesn't make any sense to me why we'd have cheaper anime than the much larger fanbase in the US when releases sell significantly more copies over there and they don't have 20% VAT and BBFC fees factored in. The obsession Manga has with price and aggressive devaluation is driving the UK industry into a dead end.
R
^ I think now it's pretty much a case of, MangaUK having offered things for so cheap in the past that if releases suddenly started costing more, then to the average consumer it would look like the prices are being raised for the hell of it (and by average consumer, I mean the folk who make their purchases while browsing in brick and mortar stores).
For example, I am perfectly happy to pay just under £30 to import a release from America (and hell, £70 for each AniplexUSA Madoka volume) but I somehow find myself extremely hesitant to even pick up a MangaUK title for the RRP. I think it's because I've gotten into the mind set of expecting to pay more for imports, but for native releases to be cheap. Ultimately, that's what would need to change - the audience needs to think of anime as more of a luxury (but when people can just go on a gajillion number of streaming websites and watch things illegally, I doubt that'll happen any time soon).
So essentially, yeah, I agree that they've dug themselves into one here.
For example, I am perfectly happy to pay just under £30 to import a release from America (and hell, £70 for each AniplexUSA Madoka volume) but I somehow find myself extremely hesitant to even pick up a MangaUK title for the RRP. I think it's because I've gotten into the mind set of expecting to pay more for imports, but for native releases to be cheap. Ultimately, that's what would need to change - the audience needs to think of anime as more of a luxury (but when people can just go on a gajillion number of streaming websites and watch things illegally, I doubt that'll happen any time soon).
So essentially, yeah, I agree that they've dug themselves into one here.
It made me so sad when Beez were releasing worldwide English-subtitled DVD exclusives (briefly, before their abrupt disappearance) and people were complaining £25.99 - the actual price I paid including postage - was too much for a complete set. Manga UK has trained everyone to want to pay £7 for 13 episodes, and even then that's too much for people; meanwhile, the companies trying to do more than repackage Madman's leftovers struggle to find an audience at all, because they are seen as overpriced :/
It's like we're never going to get anything good over here if things continue in this way. Depressing!
R
It's like we're never going to get anything good over here if things continue in this way. Depressing!
R
HdE
Comic Book Guy
Rui said:
I think I've laboured this point here before. That's NOT what I personally want at all. The fans need the UK distros to make money in order to secure a steady stream of localised releases. So, to that end, I'm in favour of AFFORDABLY priced anime as opposed to CHEAP. There is a difference.
Also:
Rui said:
Not meaning to come off as a ween here, but that's the perspective of a confirmed UK-based fan. Friends of mine who AREN'T fans but have been interested in checking out Anime - to be blunt - don't share that opinion.
Largely it's been down to factors like the shows they wanted to check out being pricier than they expected. And I suspect some of it comes down to them not being bothered to shop around for the best prices. But it seems clear to me that pricing has deterred some potential 'casual' fans. They guage the value-for-money of a release against a box set of a TV show. To quote one friend: 'That Gundam OO might be fantastic, but I can get a whole season of Battlestar Galactica for half the price of 8 episodes.'
Also, to reference Joshawott's post: I don't think I've EVER paid £30 for a US import. In fact, I don't think I've ever paid more than £20. And frankly, I wouldn't. I'd certainly not spend £70 on a single volume of anything - not even my beloved Gundam.
My point - before I seem to be argumentative for the sake of it - is this: We're talking about a Japanese art form being sold to a western consumer base. Now, I LOVE anime. But for me, the question is not always 'would I pay that amount for a show' as much as 'Can I afford that?' And as my financial situation continues to deteriorate, like so many opther folks' in the UK, I have to realistically look at prices like the ones that get mentioned here and say 'no.'
Japanese licensors, take this to heart: The appetite for your product outside your home land is NOT the same as it is there. If you want better sales, you need to make the product appealing. Favourable pricing, and the simple trick of MAKING YOUR STUFF AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO WANT IT goes a long way in that regard.
The anime market in the west is in a VERY low rut right now. The last thing it needs is for prices to go sky high and turn ownership of physical media into a privilege of the wealthy or the 'anime elite'. That will encourage piracy (which we REALLY don't need), drive sales down and eliminate the more casual fanbase.
That's another really good point as well. We can't just compare the prices of one anime company to another and be done with it, because various western made movies, TV series' and such are available in pretty much every major retailer that also sells anime.HdE said:
Yes, they are more mainstream so they will sell a buttload more copies, thus allowing companies to charge less because they know it will sell a lot anyway (unlike anime), but when the two are placed practically next to each other in a shop, which is the average consumer going to buy? The only time I can recall where we get anime for the average price of a western release is online - and that's only for DVD.
Didn't even Jerome mention that the Japanese side even get to dictate price? Sure, Japan probably don't give a damn about what only amounts to 10% of their profits other than the fear that the Japanese buyers will realise the foreign releases are cheaper...but can't you already see the problem there? xD. Thing is - what is the fix?
HdE
Comic Book Guy
I'd just noticed your latest post, Rui.
I totally get this. Beez were doing fantastic things with the Anime Legends line, and I think it's a genuine tragedy that there'll be no more.
BUT, the irony is, those complaints that folks had weren't completely baseless. There was a certain feeling that Beez / Bandai had already made their money on those shows, which led to the assumption that could have been priced more favourably. It wasn't helped by Beez proposing to do things like putting out Outlaw Star in two individual sets. (Okay when you do it for a 50 episode show like Gundam SEED or Eureka Seven... but it seems a little bit desperate when you propose to do it with a regular 26 episode series. The fact that it was brand new to the UK simply doesn't count for squat with a lot of punters.)
Again, I can empathise. But really, doesn't that situation prove the points I made earlier? In this part of the world, the consumer base has a certain mentality. We'll buy things if the price is right. Otherwise, we're likely to sit on our money or spend it elsewhere.
Rui said:
I totally get this. Beez were doing fantastic things with the Anime Legends line, and I think it's a genuine tragedy that there'll be no more.
BUT, the irony is, those complaints that folks had weren't completely baseless. There was a certain feeling that Beez / Bandai had already made their money on those shows, which led to the assumption that could have been priced more favourably. It wasn't helped by Beez proposing to do things like putting out Outlaw Star in two individual sets. (Okay when you do it for a 50 episode show like Gundam SEED or Eureka Seven... but it seems a little bit desperate when you propose to do it with a regular 26 episode series. The fact that it was brand new to the UK simply doesn't count for squat with a lot of punters.)
Rui said:
Again, I can empathise. But really, doesn't that situation prove the points I made earlier? In this part of the world, the consumer base has a certain mentality. We'll buy things if the price is right. Otherwise, we're likely to sit on our money or spend it elsewhere.
HdE
Comic Book Guy
Apologies for the double post, peeps - my connection is updating oddly.
To be fair, that's the conundrum, innit!
What concerns me is the general trend I've seen of late. Bandai's closure in the west has sent the message (to me, at least) that they expect western fans to pay Japanese prices. And there are developments such as the Aniplex stuff that are also quite worrying.
For my part, it's a big deal because it's pricing me out of the market. Seriously. Last year, my financial situation meant that I only really picked up stuff on the Anime Legends line or stuff that was put on sale. If we see an across-the-board trend develop where the cost of legally obtaining anime rises dramatically, then... well, quite likely, I'm done with anime for a spell.
This is why I make a big deal about AFFORDABLE prices.
Joshawott said:
To be fair, that's the conundrum, innit!
What concerns me is the general trend I've seen of late. Bandai's closure in the west has sent the message (to me, at least) that they expect western fans to pay Japanese prices. And there are developments such as the Aniplex stuff that are also quite worrying.
For my part, it's a big deal because it's pricing me out of the market. Seriously. Last year, my financial situation meant that I only really picked up stuff on the Anime Legends line or stuff that was put on sale. If we see an across-the-board trend develop where the cost of legally obtaining anime rises dramatically, then... well, quite likely, I'm done with anime for a spell.
This is why I make a big deal about AFFORDABLE prices.
Rui said:
The way I go about things is how long is the actual series itself, how new is it and the quality.
For something like High School of The Dead which has in the past been at £21.99 (though noticed it is now £12 on HMV) I wouldn't consider it worth buying. For myself I believe the price of a series like Bleach and Fairy Tail etc, should be cheaper. I'm not a fan of paying £71.96 in total for 48 episodes of Fairy tail when that's not even a quarter of the series.
For the 13 episodes series, depending on the quality of the show (this would be of course dependent on trailers or having previously watched it) then I think £17.99 is fine. However for 26 episodes, I will not pay £35 for a show I have not watched. Hence why I avoided picking up Black Butler from HMV, £29 would have been preferred (a price i'm happy to pay for some MVM releases).
I believe the issues lies between both Manga and the retailers as well. HMV themselves should consider lowering prices in store and stocking more variety, while slightly increasing the prices online. I don't want anime to be limited to an just online presence, there needs to be changes made somewhere in order to push people away from imports and the likes - not just including prices.
In other news, we have a teaser for the first Tiger & Bunny movie. The producer has also stated that the English dub auditions for the main series' cast are almost complete.
Unfortunately though, the Japanese market is always going to be prioritised over us. The Japanese get more money from their native sales than they do from international sales, so they will obviously want their releases to seem the most attractive. Their pricing works over there and it seemingly recoups costs of production and the TV airing. Cheaper western releases means that Japanese fans will be more interested in importing them than buying the native releases, meaning less money for the anime companies. So where can we win? I'm not sure we can...
Yeah, I really can understand that. If I wasn't still living with my mother, I wouldn't even be able to afford rent, never mind budget anime.HdE said:
Unfortunately though, the Japanese market is always going to be prioritised over us. The Japanese get more money from their native sales than they do from international sales, so they will obviously want their releases to seem the most attractive. Their pricing works over there and it seemingly recoups costs of production and the TV airing. Cheaper western releases means that Japanese fans will be more interested in importing them than buying the native releases, meaning less money for the anime companies. So where can we win? I'm not sure we can...
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Ok, there's being sure about things and then there's arsing around. If I took six months to decide on anything I'd be booted out of my job so hard I'd achieve space flight.Joshawott said:
Exactly what I said on ANN! By this stage, I would have thought they would at least have a few episodes recorded, or even finalising plans for the American release (Especially as Kazé estimate we'll have it around October's MCM), but they're STILL deciding the cast?! I wonder though, as the comments were made from the Japanese side and not Viz...could it be Sunrise interfering? I'm not sure about dubbing procedures, but FUNimation's audio commentaries give me the indication that dub casts are decided by the dubbers, not the Japanese.ConanThe3rd said:
Also, I was actually thinking about this the other day...inb4 Johnny Yong Bosch is voicing Barnaby.
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
It's simple. You can be the one person who wants to pay £100 rrp a set (ie: be japanese and a chump) our you can be one of 1000 people who will pay £30 rrp a set (ie: be not a chump).Rui said:
Don't come to me saying that £50 cour box-sets would sell when I could buy the same number of Doctor Who episodes for a fraction of the cost.
There is no way in hell that upping the cost would have the desired effect (which, I assume, and feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong, is to have lower numbers offset by the higher price).
And I'm excited about DBZ because, logically, I saw it on Toonami and thus there's that nostalgia market for it.
The fact that Manga can't handle blu ray without soiling their onesie is something that's beyond my control and I handle it how I can (ne; Import)
To charge the consumer more is to punish the consumer and Manga is in no position whatsoever to do that unless they want to join GAME and Rangers on the administration causality list.
I'll make this simple, You ask for £50 a boxst of Dragon ball of me and I will buy them off UP1 and there will be not a damn thing you will be able to do about it.
I had Crispin Freeman in my head for Barnaby. Blum is going to be Tiger, there's no way he ain't him. That or Fire EmblemJoshawott said:
Rena Ryuugu
Oyashiro-Sama
Funimation has licensed Sakarea and Shangri-La.
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Wow, wasn't Shngri-la one of the first CR streaming things?Rena Ryuugu said:
