The General Conversation Area

I think in general I do speak to men and women the same and as equals and find conversation fairly easy (certainly more than I used to), but the difference comes if there's attraction there from my side and it isn't there from theirs - Frankly I don't want to be friends with people I find attractive but who don't find me attractive because that's too painful to know that nothing is going to happen and eventually I'm going to have to see them with someone else. The same is true of the reverse - If I meet a girl who I realize is interested in me but I'm not interested in them, then I generally just break off all contact because I don't want to hurt them either.

F*ckin' hedgehogs man.

This may also explain why I get along best with lesbians, because at least then we both know where we stand and that nothing is ever going to happen.
 
Reminds me of an anecdote I remember hearing once in geek circles about how someone remarked they felt compelled to go to a party they'd been asked out to (even though they usually hated social gatherings / going out) because there were going to be 'actual real women there'.

I think these days it's better to just approach someone as a person - and try and put the attractiveness bit to the side - as it can work both ways.

I'm yet to meet someone who's said 'great tits' (or equally, 'great baps') in real life - but I'm sure someone out there has tried to use this at one point of another.
 
To be rather blunt, if I wonder if actively looking for romantic engagements is off putting to people.

I feel like I would have never persuaded my boyfriend to go out with me, if I'd been convinced that was what needed to happen at the start and aggressively pursued them from that angle. Instead, I just wanted to become friends with them and things happened from that point. I think the relationship works better at as a result, and it probably would never happened if I wasn't already friends with them.

I wonder if putting the romantic pressure on both them and yourself is making things much harder, and just having a nice conversation as friends or acquaintances might be preferable.


Lutga said:
I'm yet to meet someone who's said 'great tits' (or equally, 'great baps') in real life - but I'm sure someone out there has tried to use this at one point of another.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we can all agree the line "great baps" only works if they man a burger joint in the North...
 
Same - I think aggressive pursual is just a path to disappointment, and will probably lose you more potential friendships than you can gain. I have to confess I dabbled with this path at one point in my life, and it really ***** up your way of thinking. Aim for friendship first, and then if that clicks, romance is an option after. I think trying to score romantically with someone that you think is attractive, but has very little common ground with you, unless you have supreme confidence and bluster to paper over the cracks, in most cases ends badly.

I think everyone has in their life one thing or other that is the core drive that gets them going every day. For someone people this will be their hobby or work - for other people it'll be socialising and sex. Apps like Tinder were built for this - the kind of person whose whole purpose in life beyond existing / working is to nail a partner / have an active romantic life. I've seen people like this, and they literally cannot exist without this - if they get dumped from one relationship, they'll literally begin devoting every spare moment to starting up another.
 
Yeah agreed with Buzz.

Relationships are based on getting along, having common ground (not to the point where everything is the same of course), and understanding what that person likes, dislikes and how they are as a person. Romance, in the grand scheme of things is not actually going to be what keeps relationships going, so I think trying to make a push for one on that ground is not the best of ideas if you're looking for lifelong companionship.

I do think it depends what you're looking for though. Relationships are better taken at a slower pace, but for casual meets and hook ups, that's really where those tinder apps etc. come in handy. Like, you finished work and just want a bit of fun - they are the way to go. I do in fact know of some people that have met like that and then settled down really well into a relationship, so it can be the start of something. However, I think in general people don't usually make the transition from 'friend with benefits' to 'relationship' all too well, as those crucial foundations of personality chemistry and common ground would have been skipped. Saying that, I've met some really cool people through a hook up by just chilling afterward and chatting - but I know a lot of people will just finish and then leave lol.
 
I clicked on the reply box with the intention of chucking my two cents in here, until I came to the slow realisation I have absolutely zero input what so ever in this area and it was pretty depressing.
 
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Well, I don't think anyone is an expert on these things (despite what many claim) so you can have an opinion no matter how much experience you have or think you have. Someone who has been in loads of relationships is just someone who knows very little at keeping relationships long term, unless they're specifically aiming for that lifestyle. Not something I can do but it certainly works for others. And likewise someone who has only ever had long term relationships is probably clueless about dating rituals. I know I am, despite being as old as the cosmos.

I've never had or even considered having a relationship with anyone I wasn't already friends with first; attraction simply isn't wired that way around for me at all (and thus we delve back into the previous debate to which Ayase alluded). I can find someone good looking or witty from first impressions, but I feel no more attracted to them than I would be to a particularly handsome painting or erm, a joke in a Christmas cracker. It even crosses over to anime; I prefer longer series and titles which expect me to root for a romantic pairing right from episode one annoy me. I just can't force myself to care about the characters much without having had a chance to get used to them.

The advice about talking to an attractive person as though they're not an attractive person is good - especially for straight people looking for someone of the opposite sex as this is where the bulk of the weird misinformation comes from in our society. I can tell when someone is talking to me weirdly as opposed to as a normal person the same sex as them, and it's often awkward even if they manage to avoid the outbursts I mentioned in my last post. Even if you like them you start to sense that any future as friends is a dead end because they're viewing you as a potential mate, and at that point I can no longer be bothered and just go back to my computer.

R
 
Maybe I just need to go blind. I think part of this is that spending a good chunk of my life experience in sales has taught me you can sell pretty much anything to anyone if you go about it in the right way, which makes my seeming inability to sell myself to people aggravating.

I probably identify less with the notion of "relationships" as you guys are explaining them (I do understand and acknowledge what you're all saying, but it just doesn't work for me) and more with the idea of muses - That you sometimes just find someone whose presence inspires you and want to continue to bask in that feeling. To Rui's point, the people I find myself attracted to are like beautiful paintings to me. And they don't get any more or less beautiful when I find out what kind of canvas or paints make them up. I guess I don't really want or need a lot of the stuff other people do from relationships because I'm generally happy in my own company.
 
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I have to confess what you described really reminded me of a relationship I used to be in, that ended up being pretty horrid and ultimately destructive. Personally I think the 'basking in / muse' thing is a really bad mindset to have, as it ends up with you putting someone on an impossible pedestal, so you're already entering the relationship on uneven ground - and if there's one thing that leads to relationships faltering, it's that.

It reminds me of an anecdote about the Haruhi series, and how it perfectly portrays the situation - usually in school, where (speaking from a straight male POV) you first start awakening to the opposite sex - and suddenly, all you want to do is just be around girls, and bask in their proximity. It doesn't matter if they're treating you like **** - because you're just there, with them, and at that point in time, that's the centre of the universe for you.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was just to treat people as people. Yes, beauty is nice, and it's human nature to respond to it - but as soon as it becomes this abstract thing that starts to eclipse the person itself, the reaction in our brains starts changing and the concept of a regular relationship starts to shift.
 
I think if you can handle an unbalanced relationship (and actively want it) then it can certainly work, but only if both parties are of that mindset, which is probably where the difficulty lies. Finding someone you're compatible with is tricky enough, but finding someone you're compatible with who shares a relatively unusual perspective on relationships makes it all the more so. People with more traditional requirements can focus on other things like whether their taste in bands or carpets match up, whereas those with more complex (and yet, simple, in their own way) relationship requirements have to make satisfying those the first step. And they should, if that's what they want, because settling for something that goes against your desires is never going to work out.

(Incidentally, I have never found a salesperson who can sell me anything I don't already want. Hmm!)

It's interesting looking into other relationships and seeing how other people tolerate and actively pursue things that would make me run for the hills (or just wallow in worsening mental illness, most likely). I know quite a few acquaintances in relationships which are really skewed towards the traditional 'man does everything, girl acts like useless fawn' type and they bring me out in hives. I used to think I'd never be able to have a relationship at all because I'm so stand-offish in the real world and value my personal independence far more than I thought would be acceptable to another person. But nowadays, I live for mundane exchanges like this:

<Mr Rui> Hmm, we need to sort out the spare bed.
<Rui> Darling, I got some new pillowcases earlier this year which would be perfect.
<Mr Rui> Where are they?
<Rui> In the Play-Asia box.
<Mr Rui> Ok... *gets them out and starts laughing*
<Rui> :D
<Mr Rui> I suppose I should have been suspicious from the box.
(We now have inoffensive BL-decorated pillowcases. It feels bizarre that I'm a grown up and I can still do things like this.)

I think what I'm trying to say is that I really like being myself and being accepted for that without having to pretend I'm something else or follow the rules. Rules suck (unless they're there to prevent people hurting one another, I guess). We're probably all weirdos to some degree or another, being on an anime forum and all, but there are a lot more weirdos out there than people like us to think.

R
 
Anyone who can't at least imagine a statue of themselves on a pedestal some day probably isn't my type anyway. Even better if they think we should both be up there, striking some kind of Worker and Kolkhoz Woman pose.
 
@ayase I think the selling point is a good one, but remember, the bigger the commitment for the customer, the harder the sale. I mean, yes, you can sell anything if you're good but ultimately the product has to be something the customer has at least SOME interest in. And if the product (being you), is really not something they want, then talking your way into being someone they fancy might not work.

Anyways, relationships are complicated and have a lot of things to consider. I much prefer the friends with benefits approach atm.
 
This goes very much down the line of 'gaming the system' so to speak - eg. the degree to which a relationship can be initiated with someone.

I suppose it depends how you look at it too - someone people really go into the whole 'charisma man' thing and there's even a whole industry of books / talks on how to charm women, whereas on the other hand some people just want to believe in that indefinable moment of when things just 'click' with someone.
 
I've always found that seeming like you're looking and talking to someone purely because you see them as a potential romantic partner just reeks of desperation which is incredibly off putting. All my relationships have happened when I've not been actively seeking someone.
 
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