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I would definitely admit that the chances of it working out are probably a lot lower, but I am a pretty immature 27 year old in many ways. It's a bit disconcerting actually, because still being at uni I'm around loads of 19 and 20 year olds and I always feel like 90% of them are massively more mature and wordly and pragmatic than I am. Though I do get plenty of those "I don't know those slang words, what are they on about, I'M SO OLD" moments too, to be fair, and a couple of girls have told me they don't expect to live to my age or something like that. But it's not like I specifically target 19 year olds, I've only asked a couple out, but being around so many cool young people it's hard to write them all off.
Of course it's totally fine, and very much expected, that my advances will be declined, I've been getting declined since 89. Even though my heart can't help but break occasionally.

I think I know what Ayase means a little bit. I mean, I don't mind a bit of baggage really, we're humans and we all go through hard times, and sometimes we need help with it too. But I reckon I'm a pretty inexperienced 27 year old (across the board in life) and if anything I'd say I've regressed as I've aged (not in looks though sadly)! So it can be a bit jarring with people at the other end of the spectrum, and often I just get the feeling more experienced people my age just aren't interested in a manchild scrub like me who barely has a pen license let alone a drivers one. Some people's expectations do harden as they get older, though as you pointed out Rui, it can go either way, and nothing is true across the board. I just try and take people as they come and ask out any cool seeming women that might be single, though that does entail brutal amounts of rejection. Hmm, I'm probably at least a bit more choosy than I'm making myself sound, but yeah I do fall for women pretty quick I admit.

As for the coffee shop line, I didn't really think about it too much, I just like fancy overpriced coffee! And I like talking, and I generally find activity dates pretty overrated for first dates unless it's a natural thing done off the cuff. I always find it a bit awkward wandering through an art exhibition or some such with someone who I don't know that well pretending to be fascinated by the art and overthinking how long I'm supposed to stare at a picture before moving on, or sitting through a movie nervously in silence or at best thinking "oh ****, I just laughed at a joke that she didn't laugh at!! IT'S OVER SHE HATES ME". Well that's what I do. I remember I went on a 2nd date to winter wanderland once, and that was an excruciating experience (for me at least). That stuff becomes fun for me once I know the person.
 
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I can't help personally but CR did an advice corner recently, where they answered a (perhaps) similar question, among others. The advice isn't necessarily that great, but maybe it will make you laugh and let you know you're not alone (or you can accuse me/CR of being weirdos, either way you win :p)

 
Vashdaman said:
a couple of girls have told me they don't expect to live to my age or something like that.
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Good heavens! That made me laugh (you poor thing).

If you actually like coffee then it makes a lot of sense to ask people out there as it would be a drag going out with someone who hated hanging out somewhere you enjoyed, so I can't fault that. It's a very quick and easy way of filtering out some basic incompatibilities right from the outset, I guess.

R
 
st_owly said:
I would've been a bit creeped out being hit on by a 27 year old though
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Lutga said:
Metro's 'spotted on the tube' column, which freaks me the hell out
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ayase said:
which might be creepy if one of them was like, 12 or something
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Vashdaman said:
Thanks man, I was feeling a bit creepy there for a minute.
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Rui said:
Rather more creepily
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serpantino said:
It never gets any less creepy!
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Has this become the buzzword for this board at the moment?
"I was browsing through some heavy rock albums and this creepy guy came up and suggest I should listen to Whitesnake, boy I almost told him his privilege rights!"

Rui said:
so I'd rather go home and watch Crunchyroll
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There's a Netflix working on that.... Rock and Crunchyroll ;)
 
ayase said:
I'm no Vash (I don't experience rejection mainly because I don't try any more) but that's always a slightly disheartening thing to hear. I mean that's less than a ten year age difference (which might be creepy if one of them was like, 12 or something but otherwise doesn't seem that big a deal at all).
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It's more that as a 19 year old, I was a poor student in my first year of uni and didn't know terribly much about the world yet. I'd only been living in halls less than a year. The guys in their late 20's who were hitting on me had graduated, one of them was divorced, (I didn't know that at the time) had bought houses and were in well paying tech jobs. They were at a completely different life stage from me, and as a result, I found them very intimidating as potential romantic prospects, and did have enough about me to realise that any relationship between us would've been completely weighted in their favour, and that just seemed like a recipe for my being unhappy. I was quite happy to be friends with them though.

I did get into a relationship with one of them 3 years later when I had my **** together a bit more and was better at standing on my own two feet. What a trainwreck that turned out to be be but that's another story for another time and a large bottle of gin.
 
I forgot to mention this:

ayase said:
*But then this might be my problem since I've pretty much worked out my ideal partner is probably a war orphan with no living family and the skills and attitude to survive and prosper in a violent post-apocalyptic wasteland. Is this because I think that's what the future holds, or because that's what a relationship with me would be akin to? You decide!
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I don't know dude but I'd certainly like to play ayase in this a Kinetic Novel back drop
 
Rui said:
Good heavens! That made me laugh (you poor thing).

If you actually like coffee then it makes a lot of sense to ask people out there as it would be a drag going out with someone who hated hanging out somewhere you enjoyed, so I can't fault that. It's a very quick and easy way of filtering out some basic incompatibilities right from the outset, I guess.

R
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Thanks, it is interesting to get people's opinion on the importance of beverage suggestions, I never really thought it made such a difference (unless maybe the suggestion was alcoholic in nature), I'll bear this in mind from now on. I do indeed like having a coffee in cafes that really are far beyond my means and station in life, and it is true that due to having spent so much time in these cafes alone and longing for company, the thought of going to these places with good company has kind of become part of a wishful happy fantasy for me (which basically plays out like an episode of Friends, and I'm Ross). But it's not such a biggie, I'd happily sacrifice that fantasy for quality time spent with a quality person no matter where it is. One of my two best friends hates coffee shops and never goes to them, but time with her is worth a million coffees. Luckily my other best friend is a coffee guy, but he's not in the country :(
 
I think for me it's just the euphemism of 'want to grab a coffee / go for drinks' - it's a date, call it a date. Maybe that'd lead to less expectation / overcompensation then. Which leads me to my second point,

I don't know if anyone ever reads the date column in the Guardian colour supplement at the weekends, but I always find it immensely depressing because almost without fail, the woman says she'd pass on another date, while the man says he'd love to see her again.
 
Lutga said:
I don't know if anyone ever reads the date column in the Guardian colour supplement at the weekends, but I always find it immensely depressing because almost without fail, the woman says she'd pass on another date, while the man says he'd love to see her again.
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I read it and yes I agree. What's really interesting are the gay couple ones though.
 
Lutga said:
I think for me it's just the euphemism of 'want to grab a coffee / go for drinks' - it's a date, call it a date. Maybe that'd lead to less expectation / overcompensation then.
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You think changing the proposition from "Let's talk and get to know each other a bit better" to "let's do something which has implicitly romantic overtones" would lead to less expectations?
 
The talking bit, I'm fine with. I just have issues with 'coffee' / 'a drink' used as a kind of almost lazy go-to vernacular for 'a date' - (and almost always from a guy's perspective to a woman).

I just feel sometimes people feel so reinforced into these strict social codes of 'how to do romance' - when in reality it's just fostering unhelpful stereotypes.

I guess I'd just rather people were honest about their feelings - ie. wanting to bond over a common interest / activity etc. than having to bark out 'want a drink / coffee?' like automatic as if that's some instant key to a partner's bedroom (ie. the meat market mentality) just because it's the social norm of 'what a guy should do'.
 
I know we've talked about this here before and I remember Rui and I certainly look at this very differently, but the physical attraction needs to be there for me first, then I need to find out whether people like the same things as me and whether they're interesting and enjoyable to be around. I'm never going to become physically attracted to somebody I'm initially not because we bond over common interests. If you barely know anything about someone and may not have another reason to see them again, how do you start?

I am generally a very open and honest person (to the point of bluntness) and I suppose I kind of have some admiration for Vash for just opening himself up to rejection the way he does. At least he tries. Honesty for me when it comes to attraction would probably seem to most, to use the thread buzzword again, "creepy" because apparently you don't just out of the blue tell people you don't know you think they're incredibly beautiful. "Just be yourself" though, right? Not when being yourself goes against the social norms though, especially in these times when finding an attractive woman attractive, let alone saying they're attractive, is apparently objectifying misogyny.

But certainly, the whole "dance" which comprises our current social norms of dating and relationships is horrible and needs to die. Again, perhaps technology can save us and eventually we'll just have our bionic eyes draw lines between you and other people in your field of vision who consider you attractive and would accept an offer of a coffee and save everyone a lot of time and heartache.
 
I've experienced people giving me compliments out of the blue a few times which ran the full gamut from creepy to acceptable and I think a lot is in the delivery rather than all compliments being inherently weird. Here are some real things real strangers have said to me as opening lines.

Woman on train: "I'm sorry for interrupting, but I just wanted to say I love your hair!"
Woman on bus: "Oh, I love your t-shirt! Where did you get it?"
Man in Tesco: "You have amazing tits."
My partner's workmate at an office party, not knowing who I was: "WHOA. I like your breasts."
Man in shop when I was 14: "I like your hair. Can I stroke it?"

I'm sorry that I had to identify the speakers' genders and the trends turned out this way... I suspect the more sensible guys were more shy and kept their mouths shut. Or perhaps only strange gentlemen want to approach me because I have weirdo appeal. But I would completely accept and appreciate an icebreaker from a guy with the more, erm, subtle approach those women seemed to go for without it being offensive. It's probably in some PUA advice guide somewhere; to establish your authority over the woman you have to come out with some peculiar comment right at the start and stun her into awed submission.

(That hair comment has stuck with me for years. He did start stroking it too, without waiting for permission. I left the shop.)

I think I see the world completely backwards compared to Ayase when it comes to attraction, but I share his respect for Vash's guts.

R
 
Clearly, Cobra has a lot to answer for.

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Lol interesting discussions.

I find it hard to start a convo with women, when I find them attractive. If I don't find them attractive though, I will happily chat away. It's odd, I guess in most situations from a guy to girl perspective, it's nerves. Either because you haven't practiced speaking to women in ages or because you are too self conscious. With the guys coming out and saying 'your tits are great' kind of thing, those are usually people who have not had much luck as of recent (as in recent decades) and figure they have nothing to lose. Although, that guy stroking a 14 year old girl's hair thing is pretty weird and goes beyond that somewhat - he should probably have an eye kept on him.

When I chat to guys though (I'm bi btw), I find it much easier, but I think that's less down to more confidence, and just more down to the belief that because one's gender is the same, that there is automatically more in common and therefore already ground on which to build a conversation. Of course, that is wrong and in fact, I've found that recently, when I speak to a girl, but as if I were speaking to a guy (so normally basically), things go a lot smoother, because it's more natural and I guess because you're not trying to think of a cheesy chat up line you rehearsed in front of your bathroom mirror the night before.

I think if guys just speak to girls as if they're guys and if girls speak to guys as if they're guys, the talking/starting a conversation part of getting to know someone is easier - of course, it might not help anything ultimately if the person is not attracted to you in anyway, but at least you're in the door and as with many things, you gotta be in it to win it (the it, being someone who finds you attractive).
 
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