The Final Fantasy Debate

[kupocake]

People saying that AC fails because it lacks a character-driven plot or whatever really irk me - why can't you understand that AC isn't for you?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

?

There is much about the Final Fantasy games that I despise, yet i've played 1 through 10 and all the Tactics games too. They have a certain undeniable charm, but I can't understand the whole 'best game ever!' mentality certain titles apparently provoke. You shouldn't mistake FF's borderline 'interactivity' for 'gameplay'. It's just a receptacle for your liquidized spare-time powered by a menu system that offers all the entertainment of 80 hours poured into browsing Windows Explorer. Yet for some reason, I'm there with the rest of you, running around a patch of grass for 2 hours in order to tick a few boxes and fight that next boss so I can see the next part of the cheese-tastic story.

 

[CitizenGeek]

People saying that AC fails because it lacks a character-driven plot or whatever really irk me - why can't you understand that AC isn't for you?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

???

How is that relevant to this Advent Children discussion? The point is: If you didn't play FFVII, then you are not supposed to be able to fully appreciate the plot. It's not a failing of the movie, it's a decision the makers took.

As for critics, I think most that reviewed AC for what it was (rather than saying "ZOMG, this film follows on from a game?! Impossible!!) scored it apporpriately. Like I mentioned before, it won the inaugural American anime award for best film as well as awards at Sitges and various other film festivals.

 

[kupocake]

It's relevant because I instantly thought of the strip when I read your original post. You can't just cordon off a section of criticism by sweeping your hand and saying 'it's not for you', you can only take such things into account and appraise something accordingly.

 

[Liquid Skin]

There is much about the Final Fantasy games that I despise, yet i've played 1 through 10 and all the Tactics games too. They have a certain undeniable charm, but I can't understand the whole 'best game ever!' mentality certain titles apparently provoke. You shouldn't mistake FF's borderline 'interactivity' for 'gameplay'. It's just a receptacle for your liquidized spare-time powered by a menu system that offers all the entertainment of 80 hours poured into browsing Windows Explorer. Yet for some reason, I'm there with the rest of you, running around a patch of grass for 2 hours in order to tick a few boxes and fight that next boss so I can see the next part of the cheese-tastic story.

Ooo a very well made point there, i do agree with you somewhat, if you're looking for thrilling, edge of your seat gameplay then FF...nay RPGs are not for you, adrenaline was not pumping for me at the end of random encounter no 24365.

But i have to agree with CitizenGeek somewhat, different films for different tastes. AC was never meant to be a hollywood blockbuster and it pulls no punches in that, it doesnt even attempt to give a summary of the plot (Madeline's 5 minute piece does not count!) If we go by your logic we can score Memento a 5/10 because the action sequences were severely lacking and The Matrix a 6/10 because all that philosophy got in the way of the explosions and slo-mo fighting.

Personally i hate critics as a good 90% of them do not look at a film in terms of its aims. AC was just fanservice pure and simple. Whether they achieved a good piece of fanservice is up for debate but its obvious that they were not looking to pull in new fans or break cinematic ground (aside from the visuals) when it comes to AC.

So I look at it as there being 2 types of "good" films, innovative films - something which brings something new to the fray and films which have completed their aims, before you judge attempt to see what the director was trying to create and then decide on your rating.

 

[Espy]

People saying that AC fails because it lacks a character-driven plot or whatever really irk me - why can't you understand that AC isn't for you?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

?

Haha, I almost posted that one myself!

Anyway, the American Anime Awards are are decided by online fan votes, which means popular titles will win, not nessecarily quality titles. Of course a movie based on the biggest RPG series in the West was going to win. Add to that the fact that it's only had one run, and hasn't really established itself yet, I wouldn't give it more worth that an MTV movie award. And being shown at film festivals doesn't make for much either.

 

[Nemphtis]

People saying that AC fails because it lacks a character-driven plot or whatever really irk me - why can't you understand that AC isn't for you?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/24

?

Haha, I almost posted that one myself!

Anyway, the American Anime Awards are are decided by online fan votes, which means popular titles will win, not nessecarily quality titles. Of course a movie based on the biggest RPG series in the West was going to win. Add to that the fact that it's only had one run, and hasn't really established itself yet, I wouldn't give it more worth that an MTV movie award. And being shown at film festivals doesn't make for much either.

Well, that award sounded like tripe to begin with. Now it's proven tripe, too.

 

[Gacha]

Final fantasy 7:ac isn't a terrible movie it's a bit long winded with some characters just there for the sake of being there the fight scenes were good.
In terms of a movie spin of to a game it's pretty good and it's better than the last movie square tried to make.
But in terms of it being a movie it isn't going to be the next life changing thought provoking film your gonna see.

 

[CitizenGeek]

But in terms of it being a movie it isn't going to be the next life changing thought provoking film your gonna see.

And no one has said it was. AC doesn't try to be that kind of film.

If people just realise what AC aims to do, then the world would be a happier place! I mean, it's not like it's freakin' rocket science or anything - FFVII: AC is made for people that enjoyed FFVII (the opening sequence even says "For those who loved this world .... this Reunion is for you" ffs!) and want to see how Cloud's story ends.

Please explain to me why AC should rehash the story and character development in FFVII? Why?

 

[Espy]

But in terms of it being a movie it isn't going to be the next life changing thought provoking film your gonna see.

And no one has said it was. AC doesn't try to be that kind of film.

If people just realise what AC aims to do, then the world would be a happier place! I mean, it's not like it's freakin' rocket science or anything - FFVII: AC is made for people that enjoyed FFVII (the opening sequence even says "For those who loved this world .... this Reunion is for you" ffs!) and want to see how Cloud's story ends.

Please explain to me why AC should rehash the story and character development in FFVII? Why?

It seems to me like you're reading everyone's comments the way you want to. No-one has complained that the film didn't tell the entire plot of FFVII. No-one has said they didn't play the original game, and didn't like the film because of that. I did enjoy FFVII, immensely, and I did want to find out how Cloud's story ends. I just thought AC was a crappy way to do it.

 

[Liquid Skin]

*In an attempt to stop this AC spiral*

Any thoughts/news of FF7 - or in fact any of the previous FFs being released on PSN?

 

[CitizenGeek]

It seems to me like you're reading everyone's comments the way you want to. No-one has complained that the film didn't tell the entire plot of FFVII. No-one has said they didn't play the original game, and didn't like the film because of that. I did enjoy FFVII, immensely, and I did want to find out how Cloud's story ends. I just thought AC was a crappy way to do it.

You haven't said anywhere what it is that you dislike about FFVII: AC. You've only said it was "crappy". Now, using my powers of deduction, I mangaed to figure out that it probably wasn't the visuals that turned you off AC, so I was assuming it was the story you didn't like? Am I wrong? Is it actually the visuals in AC that you didn't like, or what?

 

[Lupus]

so I was assuming it was the story you didn't like?

... when did this happen, a story in Advent Children?

 

[CitizenGeek]

so I was assuming it was the story you didn't like?

... when did this happen, a story in Advent Children?

Hilarious :roll:

This notion that Advent Children has 'little' plot is quite hilarious in itself, too. Do you people just block your eyes and ears everytime Kadaj speaks, or everytime Cloud remembers his past? It honestly seems that way.

FTR, Lupus Inu, you've said you don't like AC because of the "idiotic fanbase" (such a ridiculous reason) so if you think I'm going to take your 'criticisms' of Advent Children too seriously, then you're wrong ^_^

 

[Lupus]

FTR, Lupus Inu, you've said you don't like AC because of the "idiotic fanbase" (such a ridiculous reason) so if you think I'm going to take your 'criticisms' of Advent Children too seriously, then you're wrong ^_^

Naw dawg, I'm going to be honest, and say I loved FF VII, but nowadays you have all these idiots all "ZOMG, SEPHIROTH IS SO KAWAII/PWNS/OWNS ^___^" etc. Who're just annoying, most of the fans are incredibly annoying and down right persistant in trying to prove when something owns, fine, I'll admit VII was an epic masterpiece... at the time. >_>

But AC just pretty much pissed all over VII's reputation, pretty much downgrading in every possible way via plotline, and considering Sephiroth came back in AC and was apparently impossible according to the directors, as in strength-level, apparently has was a God, and he never even tried to fight back, ultimate level of fan service, srsly.

Btw, out of all FF series, VII does have the most idiotic fanbase, however, not all fans are idiots... just stubborn. ;/

I never said I hated AC for the idiotic fanbase, I dislike it because Square Enix never even tried with it, when I first saw it, I'll admit I was all "OMG AC PWNS YOUR MOM!!111!1!1" then after an epic arguement with Kupoartist I realized the error of my ways and asked myself... "What was good about AC? Why did I like it?" Because I was a fan of VII, but there was nothing really added to the VII plotline with AC, it was just a cash-in movie because Square Enix acknowledge the overall success and popularity of VII so they decided to milk-it to a whole new level, and they are, and it's working. Good going.

 

[Fiend Kraken III]

Assuming this is a general FF topic in addition to an AC debate... the main issue I have with FF is that it's long and fairly hard, and I don't have the attention span to bother playing through some fairly boring gameplay, even if the story is really good. And don't say FFXII was all about the gameplay, because it wasn't. It was a poorly paced grind fest.

However I really, really like FFVII- and I'd still be enjoying my playthrough now were it not for me being foolish enough to lend the game to a friend.

Oh, and while I'm at it, Chrono Trigger > ALL Final Fantasy.

Yes, I went there.

 

[Liquid Skin]

Assuming this is a general FF topic in addition to an AC debate... the main issue I have with FF is that it's long and fairly hard, and I don't have the attention span to bother playing through some fairly boring gameplay, even if the story is really good. And don't say FFXII was all about the gameplay, because it wasn't. It was a poorly paced grind fest.

However I really, really like FFVII- and I'd still be enjoying my playthrough now were it not for me being foolish enough to lend the game to a friend.

Oh, and while I'm at it, Chrono Trigger > ALL Final Fantasy.

Yes, I went there.

I really wanna play the Chrono series, my best mate raves on about the soundtrack and i have to admit, its pretty damn amazing. Curiously though she remembers nothing of the gameplay - only that it was the most amazing game she's ever played :?

 

[Fiend Kraken III]

Assuming this is a general FF topic in addition to an AC debate... the main issue I have with FF is that it's long and fairly hard, and I don't have the attention span to bother playing through some fairly boring gameplay, even if the story is really good. And don't say FFXII was all about the gameplay, because it wasn't. It was a poorly paced grind fest.

However I really, really like FFVII- and I'd still be enjoying my playthrough now were it not for me being foolish enough to lend the game to a friend.

Oh, and while I'm at it, Chrono Trigger > ALL Final Fantasy.

Yes, I went there.

I really wanna play the Chrono series, my best mate raves on about the soundtrack and i have to admit, its pretty damn amazing. Curiously though she remembers nothing of the gameplay - only that it was the most amazing game she's ever played :?

Gameplay is similar to FF7/8/9 fieldwise, but the world map is much smaller and there are different time periods. Graphics are obviously less advanced, but still very good. The storyline is excellent and easily as good as FFVII in my opinion. I strongly advise you to play it *somehow*, although you might have to resort to certain means of playing it due to the lack of a European release.

That's all about Chrono Trigger, by the way. Not Chrono Cross.

 

[Liquid Skin]

Are they both set in the same universe or are they separate entities like FF?

 

[Fiend Kraken III]

Are they both set in the same universe or are they separate entities like FF?

Chrono Cross and Trigger are both set in the same universe, but IMO the connection is pretty loose- there's a load of ****** up timeline stuff (it makes sense and there's a definite chronology- it's only really ****** up because it's hard to understand in the first place) in Cross, but basically it's a totally different setting with different characters and everything, although there are a few references to Trigger and I guess the whole plot is based around a certain element from Trigger. You don't have to play Trigger to understand Cross, but I'd recommend Trigger first anyway simply because it's better and easier to understand.

...whew. Sorry if I confused you or anything with all that =/

 

[Liquid Skin]

Hehe not at all, thanks a bunch for the info!

I'll be sure to start scouring the net for a decent copy. I should be able to play Cross relatively soon actually as i'm going to stay with said friend for a while - though she's incredibly protective over it...