The challenges of releasing anime on newer formats in the UK

Yami

Straw Hat Pirate
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

For me this is the beginning and end of the 4K debate:



As stated, the cost of the TV sets will eventually come down but how many people will be willing to purchase 4K content if they need a TV over 70" to see the difference? Some digital cinema screenings aren't even 4K.

Off the top of my head, all of the Ghibli films have been scanned and restored in 4K, Belladonna of Sadness has been restored in 4K and I know that the upcoming Japanese Blu-Ray of Megazone 23 is said to be from a 4K scan.

But even when it comes to some major anime films, the existing Blu-Ray releases aren't good enough. Perfect Blue clearly needs a new transfer. Ghost in the Shell and Wings of Honneamise are windowboxed!
 

IncendiaryLemon

Captain Karen
AUKN Staff
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

msgeek said:
IncendiaryLemon said:
Stiivun said:
Intermediate question, is there actually a thread where people can show their setup where they watch there anime ? Couldn't immediately find one.
Well if you can't find one, make one :p
Just a note to say I'd be interested in seeing peoples setups.
As would I!
 

britguy

Za Warudo
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

FYI some US analysts do not expect 50% adoption rate with 4K TVs until 2024



Cannot find a bigger version unfortunately
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

I'll be much more likely to add a second 4k monitor to my PC than replace my TV, given that I could immediately run a lot of PC games in higher resolution and you can already get decent ones for under £300. Then I could run BDs on my 1080p monitor without them looking worse and 4k content (probably streamed or DTO) on the other.

Hell, my PC and monitor have more or less replaced my TV already, it's a better experience than my TV as it's sharper (in part due to being smaller, but personally I'd rather sit a couple of feet from a 20-something inch screen than a couple of metres from a 40-something inch one), has a matte screen and can run whatever media I throw at it. If there is a 4k physical media (and I'm not convinced there will be) I can just add another drive.

If 4G cellular networks don't fix people's ability to access the internet fast enough for high quality streaming and fast downloads, 5G almost certainly will.

Edit: The idea that you need a big screen for higher resolutions is nonsense because people's eyesight is different. I notice all the details of 1080p HD much better when I'm sat close to a small screen than far away from a big one. Look at the resolution of an iPad Mini with a retina display - It's ridiculous, and it looks great despite being so small.
 

Yami

Straw Hat Pirate
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

ayase said:
Edit: The idea that you need a big screen for higher resolutions is nonsense because people's eyesight is different. I notice all the details of 1080p HD much better when I'm sat close to a small screen than far away from a big one. Look at the resolution of an iPad Mini with a retina display - It's ridiculous, and it looks great despite being so small.
If you're referring to the graph I posted, it takes viewing distance into account on the y-axis!
 

Shiroi Hane

Dragon Knight
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

I've been thinking for days this thread could probably use a split. I am now certain of this.

Lutga said:
The average punter doesn't understand/care about DRM though (even though they probably should) - it's a classic case of out of sight, out of mind. They'd only care when they look one day to see their favourite service has closed and they've lost all their movies. Until we see a situation like this (which I'm sure we will over the next few years, as the market starts to consolidate and some of the key players of the moment back out), I don't think that will change.
It's already happened, to me. The anime episodes (from Gong) I bought to try out the Blinkbox service are all gone, and the DRM'd files will no longer play (when I pointed this out they said to re-download them. When I pointed out they were gone from the site, they said I should have downloaded them...). At least one of the anime episodes I bought to try out Sony's video store is no longer available to buy, and won't play or download either (although it still shows in my account).
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
Sad truth about digital media is that, in most cases, you're renting it as opposed to owning. Which is a point I've brought to the boards several times.

Unfortunately, consumers seem to either be unaware of this or apathetic about it. But as situations like Shiroi Hane's become more commonplace, I can see folks waking up to what a bad deal it can be. My beef is with digital comics, where a digital file can cost as much to access as it would to physically own. I've known of several behind the scenes wrangles that saw digital comics removed from servers, leaving folks who'd paid for them with nothing.

Digital media will only really be okay - and I'll only consider using it personally - when download to own is the norm. And there's several obvious hurdles that have to be negotiated before that can happen.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
HdE said:
Sad truth about digital media is that, in most cases, you're renting it as opposed to owning. Which is a point I've brought to the boards several times.

Unfortunately, consumers seem to either be unaware of this or apathetic about it. But as situations like Shiroi Hane's become more commonplace, I can see folks waking up to what a bad deal it can be. My beef is with digital comics, where a digital file can cost as much to access as it would to physically own. I've known of several behind the scenes wrangles that saw digital comics removed from servers, leaving folks who'd paid for them with nothing.

Digital media will only really be okay - and I'll only consider using it personally - when download to own is the norm. And there's several obvious hurdles that have to be negotiated before that can happen.
It's useless if you're a Marvel or DC fan, but a lot of the indie publishers (most notably Image) have now started embracing DRM-free downloads. And for the so inclined, there are perhaps morally dubious, ways of permanently downloading your Comixology purchases, even if you can't download an official PDF/CBZ.

I'd also note that Comixology is now owned by Amazon, so I'd be surprised if goes anywhere anytime soon.
 

serpantino

Vampire Ninja
I clicked this thinking it sounded like an interesting topic.... only to discover the first post is by a prize wally.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
HdE said:
Sad truth about digital media is that, in most cases, you're renting it as opposed to owning. Which is a point I've brought to the boards several times.

Unfortunately, consumers seem to either be unaware of this or apathetic about it. But as situations like Shiroi Hane's become more commonplace, I can see folks waking up to what a bad deal it can be. My beef is with digital comics, where a digital file can cost as much to access as it would to physically own. I've known of several behind the scenes wrangles that saw digital comics removed from servers, leaving folks who'd paid for them with nothing.
I'm apathetic about it. Why? Because if, for example, against all odds iTunes were to fold tomorrow and I was no longer able to download the media I've bought from there, I would just torrent it in order to obtain it again. I've already paid the creators and the distributors their fair share when I bought it, so I'm not going to deny myself access to something I've paid for just because it's no longer available through the same channels.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
ayase said:
I'm apathetic about it. Why? Because if, for example, against all odds iTunes were to fold tomorrow and I was no longer able to download the media I've bought from there, I would just torrent it in order to obtain it again. I've already paid the creators and the distributors their fair share when I bought it, so I'm not going to deny myself access to something I've paid for just because it's no longer available through the same channels.
That technically breaches the law, as does ripping a CD. (Because apparently the Musician's Union thinks we should all re-buy music if we want to put it on our computers. - Yeah, right... :roll:)
 

Smeelia

Thousand Master
I wouldn't blame anyone for "illegally" downloading something they bought but can't access anymore. I guess the issue is that we shouldn't be put in that situation in the first place because companies shouldn't be using unreasonable and impractical (and outdated, I guess) methods to sell/distribute their content.

I'm not sure how well a lot of the law would actually stand up if it was really tested in a major way anyway. Probably better than it deserves to.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Smeelia said:
I wouldn't blame anyone for "illegally" downloading something they bought but can't access anymore. I guess the issue is that we shouldn't be put in that situation in the first place because companies shouldn't be using unreasonable and impractical (and outdated, I guess) methods to sell/distribute their content.

I'm not sure how well a lot of the law would actually stand up if it was really tested in a major way anyway. Probably better than it deserves to.
It would almost certainly all hold up. The law doesn't protect you, it protects people with money, and (some) companies that distribute content have a lot of money.
 

msgeek

Magical Girl
It's not just considerations about what happens if the service folds... There's also considerations around what happens to your collection when for example you die.

A physical collection built up over many years will have had £1000's spent on it and could result in a nice windfall for family or relatives as well as some bargains for other anime fans who could pick it up off ebay...

With digital copies who actually owns it is a grey area (and in a lot of cases family friends / relatives may not even know of its existence let alone how to access it). There was a case in the US where someone wanted to will their itunes library to their family and apple were like "no"... don't recall how it turned out...

More than just what happens when someone dies I would also say that a viable and competitive second hand hand market for anime is absolutely imperative for developing new interest in the genre. When all copies are digital suppliers have no incentive to reduce prices. There typically is no re-sale on digital copies. With a bunch of physical copies out there prices get adjusted according to supply and demand. If there was no physical option then it wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw digital copy price inflation along with depreciation in the quality and variety of anime included in your basic streaming bundles. People would have a choice: Pay those prices or don't watch it... There would be no option to wait a few months and pick up a discounted second hand copy.
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
Most companies can't conspire to tie their shoelaces together. I don't think an international Digital Only Inflation conspiracy is on the cards.
 

msgeek

Magical Girl
There's no need to conspire if you have a monopoly on a show for a particular territory.

Compare it to what Microsoft were originally planning for the xbox one - no ability to resell games and games locked to original purchaser...

Imagine if that had happened. Imagine if you were someone who has a couple hundred games. Imagine if your ONLY way to have obtained ALL of those games was to buy new from the original manufacturer. Imagine how much you would have spent EXTRA to amass the same collection.

People reselling games (or anime) has an effect on the places that sell them new. They will often normalize to something like %20 more than the re-sale value to persuade people to buy from them new rather than pick up a used copy. With no re-sale market that price normalisation wont happen and we'll forever be slaves to the manufacturers pricing - in the end we end up paying more for the same volume of anime but ending up with less due to no physical product.

edit: another way to look at it;

You buy a physical copy. It is immediately worth* 80% of what you paid for it.
You buy a digital copy. It is immediately worth* 0.

*worth is defined as what someone else is willing or able to pay for it.
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
GIven the sheer number of companies that are involved in this situation when a scenario appears wherein VOD is denigrated and they're forcing everyone to buy their things on the YoYoDyne Video Market (Because, let's face it, they'd be putting knifes in their own backs to get at Apple and Amazon least they get to keep the whole pie in their kitchen) is the point wherein one should have concerns far more pressing then where one's entertainment is coming from because that's fast approaching Shadowrun levels of Corporation Rule.

Also, you're talking about an industry that has to hold a meeting to flush a toilet. Not the sort to hold a monopoly on anything.

Finaly, Microsoft got their **** handed to them for trying to pull that **** with XBONE so said **** sits on the pike to remind everyone that Fate has no forgiveness for those who dare stand against it.
 

ayase

State Alchemist
msgeek said:
With no re-sale market that price normalisation wont happen and we'll forever be slaves to the manufacturers pricing
Or people will just pirate. When that option exists (which it does) and is easy (which it is, very) then pricing has to take that into account. It wouldn't be much use to the distributors to keep prices artificially high if literally nobody was buying their products.
 

msgeek

Magical Girl
To clarify - I'm not saying they need to remove a show from Amazon / Apple to hold a monopoly - simply be in a position where they can dictate pricing on their shows to those companies... I'm fairly sure some companies hold those positions today...
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
And those companies' affairs are not anime and if Universal tried it on for size with Funimation's stuff they would probably get their **** kicked by Funi in short order.
 
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