The challenges of releasing anime on newer formats in the UK

msgeek

Magical Girl
ayase said:
msgeek said:
With no re-sale market that price normalisation wont happen and we'll forever be slaves to the manufacturers pricing
Or people will just pirate. When that option exists (which it does) and is easy (which it is, very) then pricing has to take that into account. It wouldn't be much use to the distributors to keep prices artificially high if literally nobody was buying their products.
Yes that is the position we are in today. In fact I dare say piracy has a bigger impact on pricing than the resale market. However you have to bear in mind that the big media companies want to eliminate piracy. If/How successful they may be is a long complex question that is probably a little out of scope here... However...

IMHO an all-digital, DRM'd-up-to-the-hilt future is a future in which the big media companies will be much more likely to achieve their their objective of eliminating piracy. And with no piracy and no re-sale market to hold prices down that same future is one in which those same companies screw their consumers for every penny...
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
msgeek said:
Yes that is the position we are in today. In fact I dare say piracy has a bigger impact on pricing than the resale market. However you have to bear in mind that the big media companies want to eliminate piracy. If/How successful they may be is a long complex question that is probably a little out of scope here... However...

IMHO an all-digital, DRM'd-up-to-the-hilt future is a future in which the big media companies will be much more likely to achieve their their objective of eliminating piracy. And with no piracy and no re-sale market to hold prices down that same future is one in which those same companies screw their consumers for every penny...
I'm not so sure, anime is about the only part of the entertainment industry to have successfully combated piracy in a big way, and it wasn't exactly difficult to achieve either.

These days piracy seems to mostly be people who can't access a legal simulcast, but would be more than willing to use one if it were available.

Sure there's a few people that have a vendetta against Crunchyroll though. The most ludicrous argument against Crunchyroll I've heard (and it's depressing how prevalent this is), is that Crunchyroll covers it's costs, therefore they aren't really helping the industry, so you may as well pirate. Just ugh, who has time to deal with people that are that stupid?
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antonusklesk

Dandy Guy, in Space
Buzz201 said:
I'm not so sure, anime is about the only part of the entertainment industry to have successfully combated piracy in a big way, and it wasn't exactly difficult to achieve either.

These days piracy seems to mostly be people who can't access a legal simulcast, but would be more than willing to use one if it were available.
I wasn't aware that there had been any successful attack on pirating anime content really? Not very scientific, but I just had a quick look at typical download numbers, and they're very high for current series given the relatively small audience pool. That being said, I imagine many of these will by via force of habit still, from a time where the only way to watch anime as it aired was by these means, hopefully as time goes by streaming services will become more standard.

It is something of a vicious circle though with certain series, from certain companies whereby it seems that rather than tempting people in with reasonable prices, they have decided that there is more worth in charging high prices from a smaller group of people than getting higher sales figures with more reasonable pricing, which is a classically short-sighted perspective and won't make any would-be pirates want to part with their cash. With regards home releases, a lot of these aren't even particularly great series, which makes it even more extortionate and borderline exploitative. While worth is defined by how much someone is willing to pay for something, compared to the rest of physical entertainment releases in the west, anime is still an oddball with regards bang for buck with some releases, and the nature of the Japanese sales approach and overseas expectation compared to this will always cause some friction between producers, distributors and consumers.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
antonusklesk said:
Buzz201 said:
I'm not so sure, anime is about the only part of the entertainment industry to have successfully combated piracy in a big way, and it wasn't exactly difficult to achieve either.

These days piracy seems to mostly be people who can't access a legal simulcast, but would be more than willing to use one if it were available.
I wasn't aware that there had been any successful attack on pirating anime content really? Not very scientific, but I just had a quick look at typical download numbers, and they're very high for current series given the relatively small audience pool. That being said, I imagine many of these will by via force of habit still, from a time where the only way to watch anime as it aired was by these means, hopefully as time goes by streaming services will become more standard.
The general consensus is that Crunchyroll (and FUNimation in North America) have done absolute wonders in reducing piracy levels, to the point where it's basically considered almost non-existent, in North America at least. Lots of fansub groups are now dead, with at least some of the translators going legit, and the ones that are still around tend to just 'improve' the subs Crunchyroll, Daisuki or FUNimation made.

Sure there may still be piracy, but realisticly speaking, rates are probably as low as they're ever going to get.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
With an industry like anime where a large bulk of its audience is time rich, money poor consumers like teens or NEETs, there will always be a certain amount of piracy, but yeah - the ease of stuff like Crunchyroll has gone a long way to countering that.
 

st_owly (witch)

Time-Traveller
And let's not forget that a lot of people who pirate will be in countries where CR has little to no content available. It would be more interesting to see the geographic breakdown of people downloading anime. I'd bet that most of them are outwith countries where there's decent streaming services.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
I'd imagine rates are going to be a lot higher outside North America, because of the way certain North American businesses operate. It's a shame the anime industry won't just dump titles on Daisuki for us, like they will if they don't sell them in Asia.
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
I've had virtually no time to check the boards this weekend, so just catching up.

Buzz201 said:
I'd also note that Comixology is now owned by Amazon, so I'd be surprised if goes anywhere anytime soon.
The problem isn't that Comixology itself is likely to go anywhere - but the books you've paid to read might! All you need is for a rights issue to arise on something you've paid out money for, and for somebody to insist that digital materials are removed from the service, and - poof! - there goes your comic. It's already happened several times.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
HdE said:
I've had virtually no time to check the boards this weekend, so just catching up.

The problem isn't that Comixology itself is likely to go anywhere - but the books you've paid to read might! All you need is for a rights issue to arise on something you've paid out money for, and for somebody to insist that digital materials are removed from the service, and - poof! - there goes your comic. It's already happened several times.
I don't know how hot Comixology are on stuff like that, a while ago they were giving away free comics for a weekend to celebrate some event or other, and somehow I managed to redeem a free code for a book that wasn't available on the UK store (as far as I know wasn't available on the US store either), and was published by a completely different publisher in the UK.
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
HdE said:
I've had virtually no time to check the boards this weekend, so just catching up.

Buzz201 said:
I'd also note that Comixology is now owned by Amazon, so I'd be surprised if goes anywhere anytime soon.
The problem isn't that Comixology itself is likely to go anywhere - but the books you've paid to read might! All you need is for a rights issue to arise on something you've paid out money for, and for somebody to insist that digital materials are removed from the service, and - poof! - there goes your comic. It's already happened several times.
On Comixology specifically? Cause there's a number of factors mitigating that between sanctioned methods of backup. Most famously all of Archie's catalogue has DTO options so if Archie did lose the rights to, say, Megaman, anyone who bought it on ComX specifically will have the means to back up their purchases before it goes down and, Given that this is CAPCOM'S Megaman we're dealing with, plenty of time to act on that.

Said backup can be done on companies that are... less consumer friendly...via less legitimate means so between you and me I am not in trouble if Marvel dains to make the new Ms. Marvel disappear from all existence tomorrow.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
ConanThe3rd said:
On Comixology specifically? Cause there's a number of factors mitigating that between sanctioned methods of backup. Most famously all of Archie's catalogue has DTO options so if Archie did lose the rights to, say, Megaman, anyone who bought it on ComX specifically will have the means to back up their purchases before it goes down and, Given that this is CAPCOM'S Megaman we're dealing with, plenty of time to act on that.

Said backup can be done on companies that are... less consumer friendly...via less legitimate means so between you and me I am not in trouble if Marvel dains to make the new Ms. Marvel disappear from all existence tomorrow.
There's a means of doing it for Comixology titles that don't have official DRM-free back-up options, or at least there used to be. I haven't really used Comixology in a while.
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
ConanThe3rd said:
On Comixology specifically? Cause there's a number of factors mitigating that between sanctioned methods of backup.
'Fraid so!

I've heard of a lot of incidences of peple logging into their Comixology accounts to re-read stuff and finding that a specific comic has just up and disappeared on them. Even a few instances where vast swathes or entire collections have been removed. Usually, those issues can be resolved easily and occur for fairly unexciting reasons. Technical glitches, etc.

But there have been a few instances where, for example, a legal wrangle might arise rather suddenly and content disappears overnight. I know of one specific case where that happened as a result of a publisher assuming their product was drawn from the public domain. The issue was that PARTS of their product were NOT in the public domain, which resulted in a very abrupt back and forth between said publisher and (I believe) members of the estate of a late author. Suffice to say, legal issues arose and the publisher was forced to remove all digital content in connection with that property from sale. No grace period, no cool-down time or window of opportunity for punters to grab the books before they disappeared. The product just went overnight.

It's an isolated story, but I hear rumblings of similar things going on.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
HdE said:
'Fraid so!

I've heard of a lot of incidences of peple logging into their Comixology accounts to re-read stuff and finding that a specific comic has just up and disappeared on them. Even a few instances where vast swathes or entire collections have been removed. Usually, those issues can be resolved easily and occur for fairly unexciting reasons. Technical glitches, etc.

But there have been a few instances where, for example, a legal wrangle might arise rather suddenly and content disappears overnight. I know of one specific case where that happened as a result of a publisher assuming their product was drawn from the public domain. The issue was that PARTS of their product were NOT in the public domain, which resulted in a very abrupt back and forth between said publisher and (I believe) members of the estate of a late author. Suffice to say, legal issues arose and the publisher was forced to remove all digital content in connection with that property from sale. No grace period, no cool-down time or window of opportunity for punters to grab the books before they disappeared. The product just went overnight.

It's an isolated story, but I hear rumblings of similar things going on.
Would that be anything to do with Sherlock Holmes? Because there's been a whole, rather stupid, legal battle about whether that character is public domain or not (in the US). The Holmes estate has lost spectacularly every time, but they keep trying for some reason...
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
It may not actually be wise for me to confirm what the material in question was. I earn a modest living from lettering comics, so I'm always a bit careful about what I say on all things comics-related. JUST in case. You never know who's reading!

But I can tell you the case I mentioned above wasn't that.
 

msgeek

Magical Girl
Not strictly anime related but seeing as 4k has been covered a lot in this thread I thought I'd link an interesting article that went up on the register.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/14 ... _any_good/

The article is focusing on some cheap set that will be out at asda in the near future but there are some interesting statements in there...

UHD TV Shipments are growing at quite a pace
theregister.co.uk said:
Even without readily available content, we’ve seen an inexorable shift in panel production from 1080p to 2160p. In 2014 there were 235 million UHD TVs, worth an estimated $94bn, which went into retail. The research wizards at Futuresource Consulting are 4Kasting UHD TV shipments will grow 147 per cent this year.
Limited 4k broadcasting under way
theregister.co.uk said:
As if prodded by a sharp stick, the 4K content monster is also beginning to stir. BT's Ultra HD Sports channel is now operational. The telco just about managed to get enough 4K YouView set top boxes into the field to qualify its first live broadcast of the FA Community Shield as a launch.
4K over internet = problematic with current infrastructure
theregister.co.uk said:
BT currently considers 44Mbps the going rate for its 4K footie service. There is almost certainly headroom built into this, although the company has declined to tell me just how fast a connection is actually required for the service to function – it's likely to be somewhere south of 30Mbps. By way of comparison, Netflix 4K requires 15.6Mbps. The key difference is that Netflix isn't live and doesn’t need to offer 50fps.

Given the UK's current broadband infrastructure, it’s difficult to imagine high-frame 4K is actually going to be commercially viable over the Internet. BT will almost certainly drop its crippling speed requirement once the service beds in, but will fibre come anywhere close to being as practical as satellite delivery? I doubt it.
Sounds like Sky have their 4k plans well under way
theregister.co.uk said:
Rival Sky continues to play its cards close to its chest, although its next-gen box, widely referenced as SkyQ, formerly Project Ethan (after Ethan Hunt, Mission Impossible?), is now probably only an IBC away. SkyQ is 4K capable and will offer a raft of new network functionality along with a prettier UI. And unlike BT, Sky clearly sees HDR as part of the UHD proposition. Sky Deutschland recently delivered what it describes as a successful first test of Ultra HD HDR acquisition shooting the DFL Supercup.
Ultra HD Blu-ray will be out before Christmas
theregister.co.uk said:
And if neither services appeal, there's always physical media. Expected to be seen for the first time at IFA, Ultra HD Blu-ray remains on course for a pre-Xmas launch. One way or another, we'll all be much closer to a 4K reality by the end of the year, than we were at the start
 

Yami

Straw Hat Pirate
Making the TVs available at a more accessible price is obviously a start, but that doesn't mean that people will take advantage of the feature. I can't remember exactly what price I bought it for, but I have a 3D TV - and I don't think I've used the 3D feature in over two years. I refused to pay for Sky 3D and the BBC's experiments in 3D (Wimbledon etc.) were short lived. 3D Blu-Ray I only own about 3 or 4.

I know people with PS3/4s who still buy DVD over Blu-Ray.
 
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