The challenges of releasing anime on newer formats in the UK

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

In Japan.

They can get the home team to chase its tail all it wants but it the international markets ain't buying something that's a huge run away sucess then there's something in the way and given they made a dub it ain't them playing hard **** with the rights.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

ConanThe3rd said:
In Japan.
Japan is the only place that matters, unless you're Aniplex or PonyCanyon, and even then I doubt they'd renew a show just because it worked in the US. (Although apparently Space Dandy did poorly in Japan and only got a second season because it was doing well internationally.)
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

If that's the case then why even bother comissioning a dub?

They aimed to get an international release, the international market took one look at the hot mess Toei served and told them to get.

But I think we've sailed off hte topic of MVM somewhat.
 

msgeek

Magical Girl
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Since I had the data almost to hand I drew a graph. Number of BR releases per month according to the ANN DB. Of course this focuses on US releases but I think we can draw similar conclusions.


We are clearly on an upward trend in terms of the number of releases we are able to get physical copies of. Given this, I have to ask... Does the future really look so bleak?
 

ConanThe3rd

Railgun
Re: [UK Ahttps://i.imgur.com/rou1UDR.jpgnime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

If your goal is to get shows compressed on a depreciated format on the cheep, yes.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

ConanThe3rd said:
If that's the case then why even bother comissioning a dub?

They aimed to get an international release, the international market took one look at the hot mess Toei served and told them to get.

But I think we've sailed off hte topic of MVM somewhat.
You might be right, vol. 5 sold all of about 1,600 copies in it's first week. With at least 9 more volumes left, I'd like to retract my previous comment about Toei not having more money than sense (unless they''re getting insane amounts of money from streaming, and are being paid for the Japanese TV broadcast, I genuinely don't see how they can be covering costs)...

Yes. I should probably shut up now...
 

HdE

Comic Book Guy
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

msgeek said:
We are clearly on an upward trend in terms of the number of releases we are able to get physical copies of. Given this, I have to ask... Does the future really look so bleak?
The trouble is, that actually raises more questions that are themselves tricky to authoritatively answer.

For example:

Do more BDs available in 2015 than in 2007 necessarily mean that the physical release market is in better shape than it was then?

Is it simply that more people are buying blu rays?

Is it just a natural progression considering the growth of the blu ray market?

Are those blu rays that are being produced actually selling?

Does this chart indicate greater demand for anime?

If it does, why are premium prices being dictated?
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

I think people in the industry probably know the answer to all of those questions even if we don't, and the end result is the market we have.

I feel like we've discussed this A LOT here on AUKN over the years - But ultimately as consumers all we can really do is tell the idustry what we'd like to see and support the releases we feel we want to support. If what people want is unrealistic (which I feel it often is - people seem to want things to be of a very high quality but also incredibly cheap) it's not going to happen.
 

Lutga

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

I think this is an issue we were certainly facing at one point too - ie. The last two years; Manga in particular were issuing so many titles, but in reality, you could argue that individually the sales on some of them were going down, so you had a situation were sales were potentially spread out over a wider range, meaning individually sales were lower for these titles. These days some shows will struggle to sell more than 200 copies.

Compare to say 2006/2007 when Manga had first rebooted itself and started the movement for full box sets etc, and titles would regularly sell over 10'000 copies.
 

serpantino

Thousand Master
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

ayase said:
If what people want is unrealistic (which I feel it often is - people seem to want things to be of a very high quality but also incredibly cheap) it's not going to happen.
Industry standard quality is fine for most I should think, proper chapter points & good quality picture/audio should be enough & companies really have no excuse not to meet that standard, especially when already available in other countries.

Of course there's the LE subgroup to be catered to as well (like AL do) but I suspect that those who can afford LE's regularly also have the finances, & are more likely, to import. I'm not saying to ignore that group, just that we need more low priced series & movies to pull in curious new customers. (Around £12 for movies & £30 for series)
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

serpantino said:
ayase said:
If what people want is unrealistic (which I feel it often is - people seem to want things to be of a very high quality but also incredibly cheap) it's not going to happen.
Industry standard quality is fine for most I should think, proper chapter points & good quality picture/audio should be enough & companies really have no excuse not to meet that standard, especially when already available in other countries.

Of course there's the LE subgroup to be catered to as well (like AL do) but I suspect that those who can afford LE's regularly also have the finances, & are more likely, to import. I'm not saying to ignore that group, just that we need more low priced series & movies to pull in curious new customers. (Around £12 for movies & £30 for series)
The trouble is £30 is not a low price for a series, you can pick up a much longer big name American series for less money than that, and impulse buyers will. The problem is that anime prices are freezing everyone that isn't a big anime fan out of the market...
 

serpantino

Thousand Master
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Buzz201 said:
The trouble is £30 is not a low price for a series, you can pick up a much longer big name American series for less money than that, and impulse buyers will. The problem is that anime prices are freezing everyone that isn't a big anime fan out of the market...
Isn't it? It seems the standard price for new (US/UK) season releases when I look on Amazon. I know they go down in price stupidly over the years & complete editions are released, but anime has a much smaller print run & the publishers are also only small companies so that does have to be reflected in the price just so they can get some profits.
I am only really referring to blu-rays though.
 

britguy

Za Warudo
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

serpantino said:
ayase said:
If what people want is unrealistic (which I feel it often is - people seem to want things to be of a very high quality but also incredibly cheap) it's not going to happen.
Industry standard quality is fine for most I should think, proper chapter points & good quality picture/audio should be enough & companies really have no excuse not to meet that standard, especially when already available in other countries.

Of course there's the LE subgroup to be catered to as well (like AL do) but I suspect that those who can afford LE's regularly also have the finances, & are more likely, to import. I'm not saying to ignore that group, just that we need more low priced series & movies to pull in curious new customers. (Around £12 for movies & £30 for series)
Physical media sales are declining, and it is likely the start of a trend.. The reason? DIgital media. This is the cheaper entry level alternative for new curious fans, not low priced DVDs/Blu-Rays. Your netflix. your crunchroll....this will be the gateway, and most who go there will be more than happy to remain there.

A digital future is an unfortunate eventuality, physical media will be the domain of the collectors. There is no way of reversing this trend. The only way companies will be able to make money are through the pricier LE business models, everyone else will be left to stream/own digitally.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

serpantino said:
Buzz201 said:
The trouble is £30 is not a low price for a series, you can pick up a much longer big name American series for less money than that, and impulse buyers will. The problem is that anime prices are freezing everyone that isn't a big anime fan out of the market...
Isn't it? It seems the standard price for new (US/UK) season releases when I look on Amazon. I know they go down in price stupidly over the years & complete editions are released, but anime has a much smaller print run & the publishers are also only small companies so that does have to be reflected in the price just so they can get some profits.
I am only really referring to blu-rays though.
10x42 minute series Bates Motel Season 3 is currently retailing for £18 pre-order. 13x42 minute series 12 Monkeys is £13 within 4 months of original release. To put that another way, for about the same price as 7 episodes of Sword Art Online you can get 23 episodes of an American series, that are around double the length of SAO II.

And men on the street couldn't give two figs about who the distributor is, they'll make impulse buys based on whether it looks good and whether the price is acceptable. Unfortunately anime release won't meet the later criteria for non-anime fans.
 

elaniel

Vampire Ninja
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Bates Motel airs on TV, which has advertising revenue and probably millions of viewers.

Anime titles do not air on UK networks and also do not get thousands of buyers so they cannot be compared.

Also, you tend to be able to pick up a 13 episode anime series from Manga / MVM on Blu-Ray for around the £20 mark. (A much more niche audience)

Quite simply, premium anime titles are sold at a higher price because there's a group of fans that can be relied on to buy it. You cannot guarantee the same for a basic release.

Business... why sell 100 copies of something at £20 when you can sell 80 copies at £50?
 

britguy

Za Warudo
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Buzz201 said:
serpantino said:
Buzz201 said:
The trouble is £30 is not a low price for a series, you can pick up a much longer big name American series for less money than that, and impulse buyers will. The problem is that anime prices are freezing everyone that isn't a big anime fan out of the market...
Isn't it? It seems the standard price for new (US/UK) season releases when I look on Amazon. I know they go down in price stupidly over the years & complete editions are released, but anime has a much smaller print run & the publishers are also only small companies so that does have to be reflected in the price just so they can get some profits.
I am only really referring to blu-rays though.
10x42 minute series Bates Motel Season 3 is currently retailing for £18 pre-order. 13x42 minute series is £13 within 4 months of original release.

And men on the street couldn't give two figs about who the distributor is, they'll make impulse buys based on whether it looks good and whether the price is acceptable. Unfortunately anime release won't meet the later criteria for non-anime fans.
You can't compare mainstream TV series to anime, especially shows that have aired and are supported by ad revenue which in the end allows the lower price points
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

You're missing my point, the man on the street doesn't care that anime distributors are small, if you want to get him interested in anime and impulse purchasing your product, you need to be able to compete with studios like Universal and Warner Bros. who can offer great price points on their blu-rays. (I would never expect a UK distributor to actually be able to match those price points, but in the ideal world, that's what they'd be doing.)

As much as this isn't MVM or anybody in the UK's fault, the instance on pandering to high level collectors (or simply making products expensive) will make entry into the anime world through physical releases less likely. It's effectively making it harder for casuals to enter the anime world. To me this strategy seems to me like Japan is placing short term gain ahead of the future, and it could come back to
 

elaniel

Vampire Ninja
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

It's not hurt Japan. Sell to the fans, not to the man on the street.

It's clearly working as AL have made a business out of it and even MVM is doing titles in collector's releases.
 

britguy

Za Warudo
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Buzz201 said:
You're missing my point, the man on the street doesn't care that anime distributors are small, if you want to get him interested in anime, you need to be able to compete with studios like Universal and Warner Bros. who can offer great price points on their blu-rays. As much as this isn't MVM or anybody in the UK's fault, eventually this type of pricing structure will destroy the industry.
The man on the street doesn't care about anime. Strolling up to him and saying "you can but 26 episodes for £12" isn't going to make him buy. There is no way an anime company releasing a NICHE product with a fanbase of maximum in the thousands (UK) can compete with a large studio, releasing fan favourite films/tv series. They just aren't comparable situations.
 

Buzz201

Mad Scientist
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Elaniel said:
It's not hurt Japan. Sell to the fans, not to the man on the street.

It's clearly working as AL have made a business out of it and even MVM is doing titles in collector's releases.
Talking more specifically about Japan here, what happens when the hardcore fans move on? Will there be enough new ones to take their place if the product is so expensive and inaccessible? It's a perfectly fine model, but at some point it will have to collapse in on itself as prices keep rising to cover reductions in sales...

britguy said:
The man on the street doesn't care about anime. Strolling up to him and saying "you can but 26 episodes for £12" isn't going to make him buy. There is no way an anime company releasing a NICHE product with a fanbase of maximum in the thousands (UK) can compete with a large studio, releasing fan favourite films/tv series. They just aren't comparable situations.
He'd be more likely to consider it, if prices were attractive to him.
 
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