Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [final ep - 39]

Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

I don't know if it was partly because I was expecting bad episodes but I think I can see why people aren't so fond of these ones. I don't think anyone skipping them would be missing anything so far.

With regard to some of the "cartoony" parts of the episodes, they do feel kind of out of place but there have been cartoony elements in the show before. The problem seems to be that the go a bit over the top and are used less effectively here. I thought the capsule breaking up was kind of funny but Jean expanding was a bit much.

Episode 23
The recap music is oddly upbeat considering the events of the previous episode. Aside from being too long, the recap didn't really do a good job of representing the show or describing events. It also uses the "rewritten history" where the Nautilus gets credit for destroying Gargoyle's base (okay, maybe that's not a problem for most people). The recap in Japanese is probably a little worse, giving Grandis' crew very little credit for what they've done since becoming good guys (the subtitles refer to them as "villains" throughout). Anyone jumping on at this point would see a bunch of cool things they missed and could easily think they're watching the wrong show.

When the episode starts it's back to everyone feeling sad about the recent events, it feels kind of odd given the more cheerful "adventure" recap we just had.

It turns out Nemo's umbrella has "N"s on it, as it would I suppose.

I guess there are hints of the changes going on here. Nadia refers to Grandis' crew as having been "evil" and implies that they deserve to suffer/die, which seems kind of crazy. I guess she might not have really meant it but it still seemed a bit harsh since Nadia and Grandis had become quite close (Nadia probably spent more time with Grandis than anyone since they joined the Nautilus).

Episode 24
The recap has a different Narrator this time (in the Japanese version). I think it has been the same one up till now so it's kind of strange.

Nadia says she's not the same Nadia, maybe she means it literally. I guess that's one way to interpret things and might make some people feel better. I'd say being in a strange situation might cause them to act differently but this isn't the first island they've ended up on.

Jean decides it's not worth drawing the attention of a passing ship because Nadia wouldn't agree to go. I think I'd try to get the rescue lined up and worry about convincing Nadia later rather than just hope you get another opportunity. There do seem to be a lot of ships going past though, it must be near a trade lane. I suppose that means the chances of the ship being owned by Neo-Atlantis could be around 80%, so maybe being rescued by passing ships would be riskier (not that Jean would be likely to know that).

Saurian's get a bad rep as usual. I thought Nemo said they were wiped out by an accident, unless it was an effect of something they were doing that caused it (maybe something they were using caused the cosmic rays to become deadly).

So, not the best episodes these. I wonder how they'd seem if you watched them without seeing anything of the show before, might be interesting (although it could put people off the show too).
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

Smeelia said:
Nadia says she's not the same Nadia, maybe she means it literally. I guess that's one way to interpret things and might make some people feel better. I'd say being in a strange situation might cause them to act differently but this isn't the first island they've ended up on.

The problem is that it feels very out of place for Nadia's character to suddenly decide to go off gallivanting on the island and declaring to be "reborn." She even comes back and steals from them. Call me crazy, but this seems too exaggerated and out of character to be believable.

There's a reason why Anno declared these episodes non-canon. They're just too all over the place and messy. It's best to act like they never happened. At least that's how I've chosen to see it.

Also, about the narrator switch. That WAS very eccentric in the Japanese version.

Luckily the narrator is the same in the English version.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

I'll be attempting the filler too. I've seen them before so it's not like I don't know what's in store for me.

ep23
Nemo's last words to Nadia were "Live"... Maybe that goes some-way to explain her being "reborn"...

I wouldn't have held it against either Jean or Nadia if they had told Marie to STFU when making that noise.

Nadia does seem a little overly aggressive towards Jean...

Yeah... Jean swallowing the water is terrible and out of context for everything we've seen so far...

Jean is a botanist now?

Already seems to be dragging out a bit...

tinned crackers?

Nadia wants to spend the rest of her life on this island? It may end up feeling like that...

ep24
Nadia is a bit bitchy.

Jean steps up to the plate to look after Marie and King whilst Nadia has ****** off to go dance about in the forrest.

Jean hits his head and stars / planets fly around it...

OK WTF...
lIdg2iP.jpg

(Joined a couple of frames to give a full idea if the thing)...

Ah a dream sequence... What was even the point...?

Nadia now becomes a thieving b****. Acrobatics for the escape...

Somehow King destroying his teeth is funny? Lets destroy the teeth of whoever put this ep together and laugh at them and see how they like it...

Music reminds me of costa del sol in FF7...

King with hat and stick in mouth. Looks like source for the figure in the figures thread.

Now they are playing a game to pass the time...

Yeah... Signal the boat - worry about Nadia later...

Nadia gets stuck at sea. Expects the fish to help her. Jean saves her and she's pissed at him because her fish friends couldn't save her because he'd caught them all.... yeah....

Nadia becomes non-confrontational with Jean... for no particular reason given her prior behaviour...

Padding it out with some story Marie drew...
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

Nadia becomes non-confrontational with Jean... for no particular reason given her prior behavior…

That particular moment? Well it happened because Marie talked some sense into her. She called Nadia out for criticizing them for catching fish, remember? She must have felt bad about it.

Seriously, this is nothing like the Nadia we've seen in episodes 1-22. She was a much more down-to-earth and less impulsively nasty than she is here in the filler. And sadly, she only gets worse in these fillers. Especially 25-26 and 32-33.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

msgeek said:
OK WTF...
[spoilerbutton]
lIdg2iP.jpg
[/spoilerbutton](Joined a couple of frames to give a full idea if the thing)...
I wonder if they decided that if they were going to do filler they might as well just do whatever random things came into their head. At least we discovered Gargoyle's secret identity... It was Marie all along!

I thought Marie was around 6 for some reason but her story would suggest that she's 4. Maybe it was already mentioned before and I missed it. I think I assumed she was 6 because I think that's when Japanese children generally start going to school and Electra did make Marie start studying. Come to think of it, Marie struggled with some pretty basic mathematics so it's interesting that she can apparently write reasonably well.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

Ep 23

Jean eating water? WTF? But then that whole 'comedy' section in the submersible was ridiculous. The only good bit was Nadia's reaction when Jean casually mentioned Electra.

And why would Nemo keep an umbrella on a submarine?

Team Grandis have suddenly been labelled as villains again. That makes no sense at all.

Marie is making a tower of babel out of sand.

The animation quality is noticeably down this episode. That first ship in particular was some really shoddy work.

Nadia seems to have gone crazy, she wants to live in harmony with nature. Marie is having none of it and goes with Jean back to civilisation (or what passes for civilisation on that island).


Ep 24

"You don't seem to be the same Nadia." Yeah, no kidding. Her madness continues until she has a brush with death followed by Marie putting her in her place. She seems almost back to normal at the end.

That dream was freaky, though putting King in Nemo's uniform kind of works.

Why does Jean think the Saurians wiped themselves out just because they were cold blooded? They were evolved from herbivorous dinosaurs so should have been relatively peaceable. I would expect better from a 'scientist'.

How did they catch all that fish? There's way too much to eat before it goes off.

Marie's drawings in the book were lovely, and somewhat made up for all the nonsense in these two episodes.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

BanzaiJedi said:
Marie's drawings in the book were lovely, and somewhat made up for all the nonsense in these two episodes.

Regrettably, it just doesn't get any better. Episodes 25 and 26 are even worse. Only five and a half minutes from those two episodes combined have any major meat (the flashback circus scenes, Gargoyle's funeral, the moonlight scene with Jean and Nadia up to when they kiss -- provided it ends just as they do so and WITHOUT the whole mushroom nonsense). Otherwise the remaining 45 are a waste, trust me. They're AWFUL.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

Yes they are AWFUL..... I finished this two weeks ago and to be honest I was just down hill when the sub was destroyed......-_-..... And here I was looking farward to a good story too.... not to mention the movies villain sucks
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

animefreak17 said:
Yes they are AWFUL..... I finished this two weeks ago and to be honest I was just down hill when the sub was destroyed......-_-..... And here I was looking farward to a good story too.... not to mention the movies villain sucks

Simply put, it was a bad idea to extend what should have been a 27-episode series into an overlong 39-one, especially with stories that do nothing to advance the plot OR explore the characters.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

JTurner said:
animefreak17 said:
Yes they are AWFUL..... I finished this two weeks ago and to be honest I was just down hill when the sub was destroyed......-_-..... And here I was looking farward to a good story too.... not to mention the movies villain sucks

Simply put, it was a bad idea to extend what should have been a 27-episode series into an overlong 39-one, especially with stories that do nothing to advance the plot OR explore the characters.

It felt like they was looking for new ideas to explore and just said..... **** it... let's just do something that keep the kids quite.... they won't mind the stupidness after the sub is destroyed
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

JTurner said:
Simply put, it was a bad idea to extend what should have been a 27-episode series into an overlong 39-one, especially with stories that do nothing to advance the plot OR explore the characters.

I haven't been watching but I will chime in here and say I hated when this happened in Death Note. It's really obvious when a show's episode amount has been extended in the middle of production as a show will hit a natural stopping point then keep going. It's frustrating because you know the creators planned out the story and pacing and then the extra episodes come along and throw all that out the window. While I wouldn't say it ruined Death Note (Again, can't comment on Nadia) it definitely took away from the overall experience, and by the sounds of it the same happened here.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

animefreak17 said:
JTurner said:
animefreak17 said:
Yes they are AWFUL..... I finished this two weeks ago and to be honest I was just down hill when the sub was destroyed......-_-..... And here I was looking farward to a good story too.... not to mention the movies villain sucks

Simply put, it was a bad idea to extend what should have been a 27-episode series into an overlong 39-one, especially with stories that do nothing to advance the plot OR explore the characters.

It felt like they was looking for new ideas to explore and just said..... **** it... let's just do something that keep the kids quite.... they won't mind the stupidness after the sub is destroyed

It also really affected the characters and their relationships with each other negatively. There were scenes where Nadia had the occasional disagreement or outburst at Jean on the Nautilus but she always felt bad about it afterwards and was otherwise mostly warmer toward him. With the filler arc, however, they press reset on their relationship every five minutes, to the point where it becomes frustrating as a viewer to sit through. As mentioned, eps 25-26 really infuriated me because what should have been a turning point was nullified into a cruel tease, and episodes 32-33 were worse, and frankly, really had no reason to exist (more on that in a future post).

@ IncendiaryLemon, that's exactly what happened. Anno never meant for Nadia to go beyond 27-30 episodes, and if he was allowed to have his way, it wouldn't have gone off rails. But NHK wanted to squeeze more money out of the show and neither Anno nor Gainax had enough money or will to do it. Hence why Higuchi stepped in, messing things up, and hired other animation studios to churn out the animation, and, well, the results are less than pretty.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

JTurner said:
Simply put, it was a bad idea to extend what should have been a 27-episode series into an overlong 39-one, especially with stories that do nothing to advance the plot OR explore the characters.

It felt like they was looking for new ideas to explore and just said..... **** it... let's just do something that keep the kids quite.... they won't mind the stupidness after the sub is destroyed[/quote]

It also really affected the characters and their relationships with each other negatively. There were scenes where Nadia had the occasional disagreement or outburst at Jean on the Nautilus but she always felt bad about it afterwards and was otherwise mostly warmer toward him. With the filler arc, however, they press reset on their relationship every five minutes, to the point where it becomes frustrating as a viewer to sit through. As mentioned, eps 25-26 really infuriated me because what should have been a turning point was nullified into a cruel tease, and episodes 32-33 were worse, and frankly, really had no reason to exist (more on that in a future post).

@ IncendiaryLemon, that's exactly what happened. Anno never meant for Nadia to go beyond 27-30 episodes, and if he was allowed to have his way, it wouldn't have gone off rails. But NHK wanted to squeeze more money out of the show and neither Anno nor Gainax had enough money or will to do it. Hence why Higuchi stepped in, messing things up, and hired other animation studios to churn out the animation, and, well, the results are less than pretty.[/quote]
*************************************************************

Treating your viewers with respect can get you more money... said by this guy...


http://youtu.be/qXpWAO0F7ck

I mean I was invested in this series.... sure it's old and sure it has its silly moments .... but the good stuff is good.... And what do they do to this series...they filler it.... hell even the time when they get back on track to the plot they could of used all the rushed stuff in fillers to make the plot have more sense
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 23/24]

msgeek said:
OK WTF...
[spoilerbutton]
lIdg2iP.jpg
[/spoilerbutton]
(Joined a couple of frames to give a full idea if the thing)...

Haven't manged to catch up yet, but this. This. This is a thing of, well, I'll not say beauty, but wonder at least. It's like something out of a Moebius comic.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

Looks like I'll be dropping out for awhile until ep 30 resumes. If you end up detesting these episodes and are shocked by what you see in them remember this:

They never really happened. Anno declared them non-canon. These characters are not acting like themselves anymore.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

ep25
Nadia is pissed about something again...

It was OK when it was her preference not to eat meat but now she's trying to force her views on the others...

Now she's just acting insane...

King has buggered off to pray to some wooden statue using a stick. Best part of the ep so far.

King is dancing at the statue. Still the best part of the ep.

Gargoyle reveals he has a plan... Seems a little premature to "celebrate" Nemo's passing...

Jean goes off on a jungle expedition...

Couple of flashbacks to Nadias circus days...

Jean discovers a cave...

Mushrooms!

Jean tucks into them. Proceeds to trip his balls off.

Marie saves him and returns him to camp.

Nadia attempts to have a deep and meaningful conversation with Jean while he's tripping. Jean is talking about his dream of a sausage. Nadia plants a kiss on him... End ep.

ep26
Jean has built a shower...

Jean sees some partial nudity Nadia... She doesn't freak out...

King is thrown by Maria. He ends up head submerged in sand. Balls protruding...

Feels like it's starting to drag a bit again...

Huge lion balls for a moment...

Stargazing + history lesson.

A kiss... Nadia is pissed that Jean can't remember her kiss-raping him whilst he was tripping his balls off...

King departs... leaving a note.... "mew mew mew mew mew mew mew..." It's ok though... Nadia can read it...

They go off in search of king...

Apparently Nadia... "has the power to communicate with animals using her mind"...

Oh god no...
etv7fW8.jpg


Jean discovers oil...

Builds loads of stuff....

Jean demos loads of "Inventions"..."Amazing you are a genius..." repeat forever...

Cue tracey island and Thunderbird 2. I'm REALLY not kidding... They've stolen the entire launch sequence...
6E8mrAn.jpg


Looks like it was a dream... again...

Looks like king is back.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

That episode was so pointless.. like the rest of the island episodes.... they jab their moments ... what little they have .....I mean come on go back to the bloody plot
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

I just want to say for anyone who's thinking the filler can't be that bad and is thinking of trying it: Don't. Don't do it. It's not worth it.

Episode 25
Day three on the Island. I don't know why I keep on going. It'd be so easy to end it all. I've been through a lot but I don't think I really knew what suffering was until now. I see vague signs that maybe, some day, there will be decent content that'll make it all worthwhile. That hope keeps me going but I'm not sure it'll be enough.

At least they've captured the feeling of being on a desert island, though maybe not in the way they intended (or was it?).

Hey, Nadia doesn't eat meat right? Let's have Nadia and Jean discuss that in a way that makes no sense whatsoever for either character! We can even insult actual vegetarians while we're at it by implying they're just being stupid and picky.

I know Jean struggled to understand Nadia's dislike of killing and eating animals before but he was never this stupid and certainly not this nasty. Nadia is quite right to suggest he has become evil, though it's about the only thing she's right about.

The funeral was okay but just not worth it. It's like they're taunting us by reminding us what we're missing.

Episode 26
Marie realises that Jean's lack of memory of last night's events could be a big problem but decides not to tell him anyway. I mean, it's stupid that it'd be a problem in the first place and the whole thing was kind of ridiculous but it's nice of Marie to let Jean suffer.

It seems Nadia really was right about eating meat turning you evil, Marie decides to torment King while she waits to enjoy Jean's imminent doom. Maybe it's just something in the air or maybe Nadia accidentally ate some meat when they first arrived on the island and that's why they're all evil. I guess those mushrooms could still be affecting them even away from the caves.

Even Jean notes that he's fed up of filler, it's been over three episodes since the Nautilus and he feels like it was another lifetime (I guess it was at least another reality). He wants to get out of here but doesn't think he's smart enough to invent, say, a functioning helicopter to get them off the island... Oh wait. He could at least have said that he didn't have the tools/resources, I guess he really isn't as smart as he used to be.

The island seems to keep getting bigger. It took them a short while to walk around the whole thing at the beginning but now they keep complaining about how big it is. Jean doesn't want to climb the mountains, presumably the same ones he was up for the signal fire and telescope. He even manages to fall off but it's okay because he lands in ankle deep water.

Jean wants to take Nadia to her homeland in Africa. Is it in Africa? After the revelations with Nemo I guess her homeland is the same as his so that'd mean it was destroyed anyway.

Speaking of Nemo, his appearance in this episode is probably the best bit. Not that that's saying much (and it's another dream sequence anyway).

It's almost impressive how bad the filler is. Some of it could maybe be entertaining in it's own way but it almost seems like they're deliberately trashing the show that came before. They mostly seem to pick some element that appeared in a previous episode and do something stupid with it.

Even the Thunderbirds stuff isn't that entertaining (and I like Thunderbirds) because it's hard to forget that Nadia was a pretty good show before.

Surely the loss of sales due to this rubbish was larger than any gain by extending the show. I'd kind of hope so, I can think of a lot of things the people responsible for this deserve and money isn't on the list.

I'm going to try to carry on anyway. I do like to complete things, it's saying something just how much of a struggle it is to continue with these episodes. I'd like to think we're past the worst, I really hope we're past the worst. We're probably not, are we.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

I've been away a lot, but here's my thoughts up to ep22. I'll probably put the filler on as background for the housework later in the week. It was nice to see Nadia and Electra finally actually TALK TO EACH OTHER any excuse for a bath scene and Nadia to realise she's not going to lose Jean to Electra. Deciding to scuttle the ship was obviously a big deal. No surprise that Team Rocket are cowards.
 
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Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 25/26]

Smeelia said:
I just want to say for anyone who's thinking the filler can't be that bad and is thinking of trying it: Don't. Don't do it. It's not worth it.

That's what I mean. They totally messed up the characters in this part of the story and ruined both Jean and Nadia's personalities. Big time. They also ruined Marie.

Jean is not the sort of person who would sneak meat into Nadia's breakfast. At all. He never did any such thing prior to this episode, which is why it's best to discard it. As mentioned, I personally found Nadia far more obnoxious and irritating; she was getting on my nerves. This is just stupidity to the extreme.

Also, best to not even count these episodes as part of the show. At all.

No, it has nothing to do with the meat making them "evil". It's just piss poor writing, hands down.

Trust me, you ain't past the worst of the show. Episodes 32 and 33 are even worse.

That's why I warned you about them.
 
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