Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [final ep - 39]

Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

I'll need to go away again for a couple of days, but just to reiterate (as it's unlikely that I'll be able to update the thread title), monday will be ep32-33, tuesday will be 34 and then we'll be back to non-filler episodes, beginning with ep 35 on wednesday.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Professor Irony said:
I'll need to go away again for a couple of days, but just to reiterate (as it's unlikely that I'll be able to update the thread title), monday will be ep32-33, tuesday will be 34 and then we'll be back to non-filler episodes, beginning with ep 35 on wednesday.

I guess it'll be up to me then to summarize these episodes for those who choose to skip them. (Seriously, they should have been left on the cutting room floor.)
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Well, don't feel that you must, if you don't want to. It's good of you to think of it, but no pressure intended.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Professor Irony said:
Well, don't feel that you must, if you don't want to. It's good of you to think of it, but no pressure intended.

Nah, it's OK. I'm more than willing to.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Episode 31
We got a few more details about Atlantean history, although it felt like most of the information was just confirming things that had been implied already (though maybe that's just me and I wasn't paying enough attention).

I'm not entirely clear on what the difference between Tartessos and Atlantis is, I thought maybe Tartessos was either another name for Atlantis or another city/town just outside Atlantis. I'm pretty sure Electra said she was from Tartessos and that it was destroyed in an incident involving the Tower of Babel, which also seems to be what happened to Atlantis. I guess it'll be clearer if they do end up there or maybe I'm just missing something.

I'm not really sure why Jean decided to wander off and do washing, I'd have expected him to be studying the inside of the island and trying to find a way to Nadia. I guess there's still a fair bit of the filler effect going on here.

I suppose the episode was decent, though I think it was more setting things up rather than really doing a lot itself.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Ep 31 English dub.

My appreciation of the English dub continues to grow. It's even more impressive when you consider that some of the voice actors were just kids themselves when they did this (thanks for the info JTurner :thumb: ).

Smeelia said:
I'm not really sure why Jean decided to wander off and do washing, I'd have expected him to be studying the inside of the island and trying to find a way to Nadia. I guess there's still a fair bit of the filler effect going on here.
Not that there was anything he could do, but it does seem odd that he didn't even try until the island started submerging.

The Atlantians backstory is fairly standard. They come from a ruined planetery system to the Earth and settle, then after a while end up using their advanced technology to destroy themselves. A typical story borne of the cold war.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

ep30
Yeah Nadia killing mosquitoes makes no sense...

After a prolonged "find the Graton" it looks like Jean and Nadia enter a tunnel... Time for some story?

Kings balls put in an appearance.

Nadia disappears into a wall.

Definitely a better 2nd half.

ep31
"Princess Nadia"

From the M78 Nebula...

277.5 LY away

2.4 Million years ago landed on Earth...

She's an "Atlantean"..

Big explosions for a punch in the face...

Island could be sinking...

"19 knots per hour" No. Just No. That's like saying 19mph per hour.

Jean makes an attempt to retrieve Nadia. Nadia will ba "taken" to tartessos by the blue water...

Nadia comes back through the wall and they reunite.

Graton saves the day and everyone is back together. A garfish is spotted.

Much better episode.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

BanzaiJedi said:
Ep 31 English dub.

My appreciation of the English dub continues to grow. It's even more impressive when you consider that some of the voice actors were just kids themselves when they did this (thanks for the info JTurner :thumb: ).

No problem! I've always been a fan of this dub myself, but a lot of critics have been dismissive of it, despite a few raves.

If only I could rescan the article from Marc Hairston in Animerica about how the dub came to be, including an interview with the three children who play Jean, Nadia, and Marie, respectively.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current - 32-34 - the REALLY BAD Africa/singing arc]

As much as I detest these upcoming three episodes, if somebody doesn't take the time to sum them up for those who are passing them, well…

Despite taking a rather unfortunate turn for the past nine episodes, the previous one, 31, did provide more of a development for the plot and seemed to imply that the story will finally get back on track. Unfortunately, episodes 32-34 do just the opposite and instead bring Nadia to a whole new low. Bad as the island arc was, there were a few moments sprinkled in some of the episodes that one could mine out of the trash and mend into one or two episodes. The Africa arc (32-34) has no such saving graces. It’s little more than just a pointless sidestory, and an utterly insulting (not to mention inept) one at that.

Episode 32: Nadia’s Love
Warning signals abound in this episode from the start. We are treated to yet another overlong recap clocking in at over 3 minutes, summarizing the island arc “events” out of order. (And it comes across as contradicting.) The title card doesn’t sound promising. And regrettably, it’s only downhill from there.
Save for a brief one minute scene where our pals escape the approaching Garfish from episode 31 (and even then there's more stupidity on Ayerton’s part which is unnecessary) and one very tender, sweet moment where a worried Nadia wistfully stares at the passing clouds, giving Jean a sad smile as he comes onto join her on the railing of the Gratan, nothing else about this episode or the subsequent two have any major impact on the plot.
(Which is a shame, because that one scene between Jean and Nadia on the railing is the only enjoyable moment of this half-hour. Here, Jean is gravely concerned about Nadia being quiet and contemplative. He's also curious about what happened in the previous episode, but Nadia goes quiet at this, obviously afraid to tell him.)
I should also mention that there are four -- count them, FOUR -- eye catches. The first three of which happen one right after another.
One would think that Nadia arriving at Africa would provide some interest, but instead, it proves to be just the opposite. Considering what we've learned about Nadia's birthplace, it seems unnecessary to take a pit stop in Africa, much less at a (badly stereotyped) tribal village more at home with "George of the Jungle" instead of "Nadia." But that's exactly what this episode does (following a bizarre, cartoony bit where we see the Gratan's balloon punctured by Gargoyle's battleship where it whooshes through the sky at lightning speed as we transition to daytime in two seconds flat -- rather implausibly. This is yet another warning signal).
But then it does the next most unforgivable thing: it takes the characters' personalities and totally, utterly demolishes them. Any respect I might have had for Nadia (which was weakening with me starting with episode 20) completely disappeared in this episode AND the next. In the last episode we saw her admit (quietly) to Red Noah that Jean is more important to her than the Blue Water and embrace him passionately without the slightest care that he's seeing her naked. So why does she get hearts in her eyes at the sight of some Africa warrior who just happens to notice her Blue Water? Isn't she supposed to be a suspicious, paranoid character? With no reason to do so, she becomes blindly infatuated by Tarzan boy who implies that he knows about Tartessos and gives her a rather bizarre "compliment." She even starts trashing Jean and EVERYTHING he's done for her. Despite the fact that the latter just saved her life (again!) and has not done anything objectionable at this point. It would be one thing if the episode was planned BEFORE her crucial bonding point with Jean in the previous episode, but by tacking it into the narrative at this point without any explanation or buildup, it comes across as very out-of-step and seriously detrimental to Nadia's personality. Even the characters comment on how alienating she's becoming.
There are other problems with the episode as well. The animation is worse, and the overall vibe feels very much like the island episodes. There are also many plotholes: why does Tarzan boy say he is roughly thirteen years old? He looks much older than that! What is up with Ayerton being a translation expert for Africa? Why does nobody call out Nadia for her betrayal of Jean considering she kissed him and hugged him nude episodes ago? A tribal village that worships a lion goddess statue with oversized testacles? Its sacred treasure is a tin can of food and a magic juice that can make anyone who drinks it run super fast and get super strength? Most disappointing of all is that despite the implication that Tarzan boy knows about Tartessos, we never get to find out WHAT it is that he actually knows about it. All we're permitted to hear is some vague reference to a silver city, and that's about it. (This silver city never appears in any other episode of the show, not even episode 35, which is enough to make one wonder why we even hear about it at all.)
I should also mention that the new characters in this episode are totally uninteresting. The anonymous Tarzan clone is very much a bland character with zero personality or not even compelling. Grandis' ex-fiance, who turns up in the ending of this episode and takes King captive (by hanging him to a cross!), is even worse. Considering the backstory with Grandis one would expect someone a bit more complicated and interesting, but here he comes across as a mono dimensionally nasty, Snidely Whiplash clone. This guy is so uncharismatic, unsympathetic, and boring that it's difficult to understand how Grandis could have possibly fallen for him in the first place.
This is easily the worst episode in the show, even more so than episodes 23-26 combined.

Episode 33: King's Rescue
The good news is that the Africa adventure in the village ends here. The bad news is that this episode is truly, utterly, despicably horrible, easily deserving of the title "worst episode of Nadia ever." Offensively atrocious as episode 32 is, this is even more so.
The story just spirals more out of control here as Grandis and Nadia decide to take a bath in the Gratan for no reason while King is still captive at our villain's trailer, hanging to a cross (and I have to say that this is sacrilegiously blasphemous: what is this, Passion of the Lion?). Nadia's character sinks to an even deeper low. She's utterly NASTY to Jean here without the slightest provocation and PRACTICALLY NO REASON. She even lies to Tarzan boy at one point (even if it is to protect King from having devoured a tin can, c'mon, it's still contradictory on her part) and later on, actually gets into a brawl with Grandis and Snidely… sorry, Gonzales -- charging aggressively into them. Isn't Nadia supposed to be AGAINST lying AND violence? Seriously, it's hard to imagine that this is the same character we know from the first 22 episodes or even episode 31.
Grandis, too, loses credibility as a character; if Gonzales basically ruined her life and she's holding a grudge, then why does she fall for him again? The fact that the guy is so uninteresting and dull, as mentioned, only succeeds in making it worse.
It's stupid, as well; Nadia and Grandis both get themselves captured, then it's up to the others to save them. A previous rescue attempt gets canned so they have to come up with a contrived one. At the end of it all, Jean uses another Mecha King(!) to save Nadia while trying to beat Tarzan boy from using his boomerang to it. The only one who manages to actually save Nadia is a muscular warrior woman who again appears out of nowhere. Mecha King blows up Whiplash's trailer, with Nadia not only showing no gratitude to Jean for his efforts (she just yells at him for being the "cruelest boy alive") and turning abruptly adoring when Tarzan boy admits he failed. But to her shock, she painfully discovers that the strong warrior woman who saved her is Tarzan boy's fiancé. (Even so, she still is nasty to Jean at the very end of this episode. Seriously, I just couldn't sympathize with Nadia anymore at this point.) The only thing we are permitted to know about Tartessos after all this nonsense is where to go, to which warrior woman points toward the mountains.
That's it? THAT'S the point of this whole Africa adventure? We sit through two half-hours of uninteresting crap just to learn WHERE Tartessos is? Why didn't they think of using the Blue Water's power? Didn't Red Noah say to follow the Blue Water to Tartessos? What the heck happened to that reference? Did the writers just forget about it?
Not even the attempts at humor provoke any laughs. Despite an inside joke to a reference to Wings of Honneamise (the battle call of "Ontabarai") and Sanson getting in one mildly amusing line, "Cheer up, girls, don't be such gloomy Glindas!", the only entertainment value this episode provides is masochistic and misogynistic.
By the time this episode was over, I was utterly furious. I didn't believe it was possible that any other episode in the show could possibly get the prize of being the most guilty of trashing the characters' personalities and their relationships, but this one and 32 as well as 25 and 26 absolutely do. It's useless, it's poorly written, misogynistic, masochistic, and just plain nasty.
If it makes anyone feel any better, these two episodes were never supposed to be part of the main plot. They are not mentioned again starting with episode 35. Not a single thing is referenced from them. Even Hideaki Anno's edited compilation leaves this as well as the subsequent episode on the cutting room floor. That's where they should have been to begin with.

Episode 34: My Darling Nadia
Yes! The last of the filler episodes!!!!
Unfortunately it's not much of an episode at all. It's mostly just recycled footage set to songs (edited in the style of a music video) sung by the characters. Again, it's just time padding. The only thing in the way of a "plot" is Sanson advising Jean to write a song for Nadia to express his feelings. He eventually does, singing off-key, even mentioning about how her misbehavior is affecting him! (I don't know where the writers got the idea to have Jean suggest Nadia try to eat meat; and later on Grandis tells her that she should do the same! That's just another example of how poorly written this episode is. Again.)
Like episodes 32-33, this episode is a waste. It was never really meant to be the recap-music video episode it turned out to be. Due to budget cuts, Anno and company had to scale back on their more ambitious concept. But then it got really messy when NHK, who had commissioned "vocal CDs" in which the characters sang their songs, tried to get Gainax involved with marketing them. So the end result was this mishmash of songs set to scattered footage reediting which only provided more padding. Blame corporate stupidity and greed for the existence of this episode.
To be fair, though, the songs themselves aren't bad at all. Some, like the Grandis gang's song, Marie's, and Nadia's haunting ballad, are quite nice. Even Jean's intentionally badly sung "love song" is funny, but also mind numbingly repetitive.
Also, for those of you watching the dub, yes, the actors involved DO attempt to sing the songs, and even though I consider this to be an unnecessary episode, I gotta commend them for rising to the challenge. Meg Bauman's Nadia, especially, does an outstanding job during her ballad; she sings really well. Margaret is meant to be obnoxiously cute and funny with her song, and Martin, Corey, and Sarah's rendition of the Grandis song is a hoot. Nathan, unfortunately, has trouble hitting high notes, although on the other hand, his character IS supposed to sing badly. So I gotta give Monster Island kudos for going out of their way.
On the whole, though, there really is no reason to sit through this episode. It's just more padding, and not much more than that.

So there you have it. Episodes 23-29 were mostly bad, but had a few moments that one could potentially meld to a single half-hour. By comparison, episodes 32-34 are REALLY, REALLY BAD. They just don't fit with the atmosphere of Nadia, and comes at precisely the wrong time in the series, especially where the character relationship dynamics are concerned. But that they fail to provide anything remotely compelling to the plot and are guilty of making mockeries of the characters and the credible backstory involving Grandis' exfiance only makes their existence infuriating.

If any of you are wondering whether you should watch these episodes anyway, DON'T. They are easily the worst episodes in the show, even more so than eps 25 and 26. They will only end up making you hate the characters and the series in general, and not even care to see anymore of the show. Trust me, you're better off not watching these three. Even Anno considered them non-canon. When episode 35 comes around, they act as though they didn't happen… and for good reason. The show plays so much better without these unnecessary filler episodes. It really is better to just go to episode 35 after episode 31 instead. That's the way the story was supposed to go in the first place, and honestly, it shows.

Still, if you really decide to disregard the above and see them anyway, don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 32/33]

Episode 32
Is Hamahama supposed to be around 12-13? It's not unusual for anime characters to not look their stated age but I'd have expected him to be nearer Jean's age (which I'd guess is about the same as Nadia's).

Even the "Oh my god!" moment didn't help much.

Episode 33
Did Gonzalez's companions change between the end of Episode 32 and the start of this one? Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I thought they looked different.

These two episodes are absolutely a low point for the show, starring totally unfamiliar characters and full of stupidity. I think I'll be happy enough pretending they didn't happen.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 32/33]

Smeelia said:
These two episodes are absolutely a low point for the show, starring totally unfamiliar characters and full of stupidity. I think I'll be happy enough pretending they didn't happen.

It's implied Tarzan boy is 13, but still, it shows that the writers weren't really thinking this story through when they wrote it. Worry not, though, episode 35 disregards them too, as I mentioned.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Ep 32 & 33

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Burn these episodes! BURN THEM WITH FIRE! :evil:
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

BanzaiJedi said:
Ep 32 & 33

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO! Burn these episodes! BURN THEM WITH FIRE! :evil:

If it makes you feel any better, these episodes are literally disregarded the moment episode 35 begins. AND Anno made a shorter version of the show called "Nautilus Story" that cuts out these horrid Africa episodes and goes straight from ep 31 to 35.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

Still hideously behind with this - but figured it was worth posting that I just finished off episode 13, 'Run, Marie, Run'.

Initially, I was dissappointed that it wasn't some kind of anachronistic re-telling of 'Run Lola Run', which then made me wonder what Franka Potente is doing these days. But then I got down to the episode itself.

Absolutely charming stuff. There was something really heartwarming about seeing Marie go off and just do kid stuff for the first half of the episode. "Chuu-chuu-puff-puff" must have been a feat to record in the booth! And Sanson's spare hat made me laugh out loud. This is some darned quality stuff!
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

HdE said:
Still hideously behind with this - but figured it was worth posting that I just finished off episode 13, 'Run, Marie, Run'.

Initially, I was dissappointed that it wasn't some kind of anachronistic re-telling of 'Run Lola Run', which then made me wonder what Franka Potente is doing these days. But then I got down to the episode itself.

Absolutely charming stuff. There was something really heartwarming about seeing Marie go off and just do kid stuff for the first half of the episode. "Chuu-chuu-puff-puff" must have been a feat to record in the booth! And Sanson's spare hat made me laugh out loud. This is some darned quality stuff!

Yes, Margaret Cassidy had a great time voicing that particular episode when she played Marie. She said so in an interview she did with Marc Hairston in Animerica from way back when. She's easily a lot easier on the ears than her Japanese counterpart, because she sounds very natural and cute. No offense to Yuko Mizutani, but I always found her Marie too shrill. Martin Blacker is also hysterical as Sanson; any time he goes crazy has me in stitches. Particularly in this episode. I like the chemistry between him and Cassidy during the chase scene.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

JTurner said:
Yes, Margaret Cassidy had a great time voicing that particular episode when she played Marie. She said so in an interview she did with Marc Hairston in Animerica from way back when. She's easily a lot easier on the ears than her Japanese counterpart, because she sounds very natural and cute. No offense to Yuko Mizutani, but I always found her Marie too shrill. Martin Blacker is also hysterical as Sanson; any time he goes crazy has me in stitches. Particularly in this episode. I like the chemistry between him and Cassidy during the chase scene.

Yes! Perfect casting, I'd say. This episode really made me warm to the character a great deal - which is no mean feat, as I usually find myself wanting to scream at kids in anime.

I noticed in episodes 12 and 13 that great pains are being made to make sure viewers don't percieve Grandis and co. as villains anymore. It's already been a good while since they set foot on the Nautilus as crew members, but giving Grandis her sad back story, establishing Sanson and Hanson as being loyal friends to her through thick and thin, and then teaming Sanson and Marie is a real masterstroke.

At this stage, in spite of the show's leanings toward a younger audience, its characters are working much better than some shows that are aimed at more mature folks. No small achievement.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

HdE said:
JTurner said:
Yes, Margaret Cassidy had a great time voicing that particular episode when she played Marie. She said so in an interview she did with Marc Hairston in Animerica from way back when. She's easily a lot easier on the ears than her Japanese counterpart, because she sounds very natural and cute. No offense to Yuko Mizutani, but I always found her Marie too shrill. Martin Blacker is also hysterical as Sanson; any time he goes crazy has me in stitches. Particularly in this episode. I like the chemistry between him and Cassidy during the chase scene.

Yes! Perfect casting, I'd say. This episode really made me warm to the character a great deal - which is no mean feat, as I usually find myself wanting to scream at kids in anime.

I noticed in episodes 12 and 13 that great pains are being made to make sure viewers don't percieve Grandis and co. as villains anymore. It's already been a good while since they set foot on the Nautilus as crew members, but giving Grandis her sad back story, establishing Sanson and Hanson as being loyal friends to her through thick and thin, and then teaming Sanson and Marie is a real masterstroke.

At this stage, in spite of the show's leanings toward a younger audience, its characters are working much better than some shows that are aimed at more mature folks. No small achievement.

Wait til you see episodes 15 & 16. Those are the most dramatic moments in the show, and the dub version of it is very effective; seriously I was almost crying at the end of the former.

(And yes, the kid characters in the dub ARE portrayed by children. Margaret was 11 at the time, while Nathan Parsons (Jean) and Meg Bauman (Nadia) were both 12 and 14, respectively.)
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 34]

HdE said:
Still hideously behind with this - but figured it was worth posting that I just finished off episode 13, 'Run, Marie, Run'.

Initially, I was dissappointed that it wasn't some kind of anachronistic re-telling of 'Run Lola Run', which then made me wonder what Franka Potente is doing these days. But then I got down to the episode itself.
I had the same thought. It might have been interesting to see flashes of what happened to the soldier that tried to capture Marie. I guess we know what happened to the Crab Robot guy though.

Episode 34
I may have previously said "I've never seen a musical episode I didn't like" and as wary as I am to admit it, that's still true.

Although we're still in the filler continuity and all of the characters are acting accordingly, I still managed to enjoy this episode. The songs were reasonably entertaining and I think the episode has signs of moving away from the filler and trying to put it behind them. In a sense, the Gratan flying along is almost symbolic of them leaving all that nonsense behind (well, I hope). Maybe knowing this is supposed to be the last filler episode helps too.

The most important part of the episode though, was Marie's song and specifically the way they had arranged scenes for the "music video". The combination of Marie picking flowers then turning in horror to see Nemo running through the fields at her was hilarious. That basically kept me happy until the end of the episode, I'm easy to please.

I decided to watch the songs in both languages just to see what it was like, I find it interesting when attempts are made to dub songs. I think they probably did okay in general, although a few of the songs might have worked fine if they'd basically gone with the subtitled lyrics rather than changing them.

So, against expectations, this episode kind of cheered me up ready to get back into the main story.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

ep32
Balloon deflation. poor.
Guess that means it's Africa...
Lion balls everywhere.

ep33
Nadia is too happy considering Kings situation...
Nadia lying to get her way... To Hama Hama who she apparently likes and who said he never lies...
At least Sanson charging right in is in character.
I didn't find this episode as bad as a lot of the other filler episodes... Perhaps it was the fact that despite it being completely tangential to the plot it actually felt like something happened in the episode. The feeling of "working as a team" was kind of there too.

ep34
Synchronized teeth brushing again...
"Sing to her... It's the best way..." Not with your voice and accent Jean...
recap during songs... this just seems drawn out and fillery...
Sanson seems to be having a little trouble... in the bathroom...
Marie's song is a bit funkier.
 
Re: Simulwatch - Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water [current ep - 31]

msgeek said:
ep32
Balloon deflation. poor.
Guess that means it's Africa...
Lion balls everywhere.

ep33
Nadia is too happy considering Kings situation...
Nadia lying to get her way... To Hama Hama who she apparently likes and who said he never lies...
At least Sanson charging right in is in character.
I didn't find this episode as bad as a lot of the other filler episodes... Perhaps it was the fact that despite it being completely tangential to the plot it actually felt like something happened in the episode. The feeling of "working as a team" was kind of there too.

It's a miracle you were able to find something to enjoy. I can't stand these two episodes at all. To me they really destroyed Nadia, and whatever happens in these episodes are all but completely discarded. Even Anno de-canonized them. And frankly, they don't belong in the fabric of the story at all.
 
Back
Top