UK Anime Distributor MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

[Smeelia]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

To be honest I tend to prefer on-disc content as extras to get me to buy a show. I have been buying most of the Anime Limited Collector's Editions, I probably buy more on hype and goodwill towards the company than bonus content though (marketing people probably love people like me). Still, I have quite liked some of their books and I'd be more enthusiastic to buy a special release if it includes a soundtrack (or at least full OP/ED usually, though I guess it depends on the show).

Since this is the MVM thread I guess it's worth noting that I do have some goodwill towards them too, I guess I'm easy to please ("these guys let me buy anime!").

I think it can be tough to compare "similar shows" because it's not always clear exactly what about a show makes it popular and there may be subtle differences between two seemingly similar shows that mean they have quite different audiences. Then there are other factors like the timing of other releases and people like me that buy for bad reasons but only when they have the money to do so.

 

[Shiroi Hane]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Hmm interesting. That six figure sum for the authoring software does sound like a fairly hefty chunk... But I would have thought outsourcing the authoring piece to some company that specifically does just that, could result in fairly significant savings... I mean if some company already has appropriate software or is doing enough volume of encoding to get significant discount on the SW licensing. But I guess if it's the case with MVM that they don't want to get into authoring without another territory involved they wouldn't even look into something like that.

Outsourcing also means the authoring company has an incentive to author well as that equates to better / future business. Either that or build in clauses to the contract with some penalties for subsequently discovered issues or if anything does not match the original statement of works.

Disclaimer: I know very little about the anime industry, just some thoughts on how it would make sense to work to me, although some of those scenarios are quite similar to other B2B contracts and such like work.

That's what all the UK companies do. It does mean less control however - look at all the issues Manga have with chapter placement etc. When masters from the US and Australia aren't available/viable Manga used to outsource to Premiere (née Dubbs-Eyeframe, née Eyeframe) and probably still do. Most if not all of Anime Limited's bespoke authoring is done by Justin Sevakis (Media OCD). Have MVM ever done anything that hasn't used Australian masters?
Madman are big enough to have their facilities, and Hanabee have followed suit. I'm not sure what Siren do.
In the US, FUNimation and Sentai both have in-house facilities (although the latter goes by "Seraphim Digital" IIRC). Even in the US, the smaller ones still outsource - I think Justin now does all the authoring for NISA and Discotek for example.

That's fairly exciting. Really glad others are looking at what Anime Ltd are doing in terms of releases and taking note.

They've made a start already, with Kara no Kyoukai and Nagi no Asukara.

 

[awadama]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I just like affordable releases in hard plastic boxes.

If MVM do end up going the fancy box/super-expensive release route, I just hope they can at least release the standard edition as soon as possible afterwards (not over a year later).

I already feel alienated by Anime Limited's approach, so I hope MVM don't just become AL 2.0.

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I just like affordable releases in hard plastic boxes.

If MVM do end up going the fancy box/super-expensive release route, I just hope they can at least release the standard edition as soon as possible afterwards (not over a year later).

I already feel alienated by Anime Limited's approach, so I hope MVM don't just become AL 2.0.

I think that AL's approach is more bound by contract with the Japanese companies rather than them not wanting to put out regular editions right away.

 

[GolGotha]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I just like affordable releases in hard plastic boxes.

If MVM do end up going the fancy box/super-expensive release route, I just hope they can at least release the standard edition as soon as possible afterwards (not over a year later).

I already feel alienated by Anime Limited's approach, so I hope MVM don't just become AL 2.0.

You'll have to wait 12 - 18 month for a bare bones release no matter who releases it, as that is the average turn around time for a bare bones release to be released in the UK, from when the series finished airing. Anime Limited just allow people to be able to purchase a more expensive collectors edition whilst they wait, so to speak.

 

[HdE]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I already feel alienated by Anime Limited's approach, so I hope MVM don't just become AL 2.0.

Quoting this because it explains a part of my concerns. 'Alienated' is the operative word.

I really think what Anime Limited is currently doing is great in the regard that it's enabling people to get hold of a mix of brand spankin' new shows and classic older features. And I do think it's a fallacy that all their stuff costs a disproportionate amount (as some people have claimed to me.) The prices I've seen for their standard edition releases have been spot on, as far as I'm concerned.

I DO however detect that some folks I speak to about anime feel like the collector's end of the market is being catered to pretty exclusively at the moment. And I don't know how I feel about that.

I do think it's an exaggeration, and more and more so as time passes. It's not helped by some of the high street pricces that a few folks have quoted back to me (one pal went as far as to post a picture on Facebook of the first season collection of Space Dandy with a £65 price tag on it, with the caption 'BUT WHYYYY?!!?!?')

Maybe it's just that some of us fans have an entitled attitude, to some degree? It seems like a lot of us want a constant stream of affordable releases of shows we haven't yet seen. I certainly think that describes me. And while it's good to remember that nobody owes us our anime, it's nice to feel like there's something out there we can pick upif our means don't extend to the latest super whizz-bang mega-extra-bits edition of a brand new show.

Something I think the last year or two has brought home is that it takes time for anime to appear on the home video market here. That's always been the case. But it seems as if maybe because people discuss this stuff more we kind of make more of an issue of it? Or maybe we really are seeing a shift in the way anime is sold in physical format.

Just thinking (typing) out loud there.

 

[ayase]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

high street

That's yer problem right there. If people aren't buying online by now they are pissing their money away and frankly, the world left them behind long ago. We are the future.

As for the complaints about release times of standard editions GolGotha is spot on - The early release collector's edition is the thing that's new, not the wait for the standard edition. A few years back a show would probably only come in a "standard edition" and it would take the same length of time to be released from the Japanese airing / release date as standard editions do now. It really does seem now that people are just complaining because they can't have exactly what they want exactly when they want at exactly the price they want to pay for it. To that, there's very little to be said except "Such is life".

 

[Lavigne]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Personally I don't think the concerns should be around AL. What, four years ago they didn't exist? What they've done since forming is fill a niche gap in the market for premium content. Content which a lot of people wanted, and which a lot of people would already have imported, at even higher prices no doubt.

The concern comes when a company that largely catered for people towards the other end of the spectrum, those wanting basic editions at affordable prices, come out and say that they want to follow AL's lead. I don't inherently think that this is a problem per se, providing that AL's model is followed in full. The fear is that it's not, and you end up with a half-assed approach that plays to the premium crowd but forgets those that don't want the bells and whistles. As much as AL cater very well for the premium end of the market (not exclusively I'll add as they do put out standard editions as well) so do MVM to the budget end. To lose that I think is a justifiable fear as neither Manga or Animatsu are likely to do as well there as MVM do, which would leave that corner of the market possibly under-represented.

I really don't see it going that way, I'm sure MVM are perfectly well aware of the pitfalls of what they're proposing to do and won't fall into that trap. Instead I think we'll be seeing even better things for UK anime fans - we won't just get Eden of the East basic edition in future. We'll get a deluxe version perhaps AND a standard edition the likes of which we got. I see this as us getting more, not less choice, and as such it's an exciting development.

 

[Peachy]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I don't see them going entirely A/L style. I would think MVM will be using the more A/L type releases for a few, larger titles. Take their recent announcements, it's only Love Live getting collector treatment and possibly Fate. The rest of their more premium releases will more than likely depend on how well Lull In The Sea does for them but even so, I imagine those NISA releases would only be every now and then.

I just like affordable releases in hard plastic boxes.

If MVM do end up going the fancy box/super-expensive release route, I just hope they can at least release the standard edition as soon as possible afterwards (not over a year later).

I already feel alienated by Anime Limited's approach, so I hope MVM don't just become AL 2.0.

You'll have to wait 12 - 18 month for a bare bones release no matter who releases it, as that is the average turn around time for a bare bones release to be released in the UK, from when the series finished airing. Anime Limited just allow people to be able to purchase a more expensive collectors edition whilst they wait, so to speak.

I might copy and paste this to everyone who goes crazy about their releases and prices, the nasty angry ones that is..not the ones who just aren't aware cause I wasn't in the know about this till Andrew wrote about it.

 

[Rui]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Yeah, it's a nice succinct way of putting it. The people waving pitchforks over not being able to get simultaneous BD editions at a tiny fraction of the price of the Japanese edition and combined in a box set are usually just ignorant about how the industry works. They'd also be the first to complain when the market collapses due to their unwillingness to spend money on it and Japan stops making anything other than Shounen Jump adaptations and skeevy fan service shows. As it currently stands, there's no sign that anyone has lost anything with this general shift towards premium offerings for shows which do well on the streaming side.

R

 

[Smeelia]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I think everyone else has kind of covered it but I'd agree that there's not a problem with special edition releases (at least, as long as a standard release does appear eventually). I think the problem is that some people have a false perception of the situation and it's a shame that some people feel alienated because of circumstances that are actually positive (even if they're not quite what they'd like).

Still, I wonder if we could do something about this issue. It's tough for companies because they often have to keep release plans secret, either for marketing reasons or because of contracts, and that can make it seem like they're keeping things from fans. It'd be easier if people could avoid taking things personally but humans are not generally great at that and I don't think it's entirely wrong that we should be passionate about our hobby. I do think it's preferable that people get the concerns off their chest and have a chance to hear explanations, maybe it won't help everyone but at least it's better than sitting on your own and blaming people without trying to learn. I'm not sure what could be done to educate people who don't engage in forums, social media and such though.

Maybe it's just that some of us fans have an entitled attitude, to some degree? It seems like a lot of us want a constant stream of affordable releases of shows we haven't yet seen. I certainly think that describes me. And while it's good to remember that nobody owes us our anime, it's nice to feel like there's something out there we can pick upif our means don't extend to the latest super whizz-bang mega-extra-bits edition of a brand new show.

I don't think that's a bad attitude as such. There's nothing wrong with wanting things your way, as long as you're not making unreasonable demands. I guess the problems start when people get angry at companies because of things that are out of their control.

To be fair, there are things to be annoyed about like when a licensor is uncooperative and unreasonable (though we'll rarely hear about that) or when a company creates a substandard release or has a license they're not using that no one else can use either. I'm not saying there aren't any problems on the other end but I think we have a tendency to focus on the problems and sometimes forget to examine the reasons.

At the end of the day, I guess it does come down to "you can't please everyone" so I'm not sure what I'm yammering about.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Yeah, it's a nice succinct way of putting it. The people waving pitchforks over not being able to get simultaneous BD editions at a tiny fraction of the price of the Japanese edition and combined in a box set are usually just ignorant about how the industry works. They'd also be the first to complain when the market collapses due to their unwillingness to spend money on it and Japan stops making anything other than Shounen Jump adaptations and skeevy fan service shows.

I actually think they'd be the first to just shrug and move on to whatever the next cheapest distraction they could find was.

 

[HdE]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

high street

That's yer problem right there. If people aren't buying online by now they are pissing their money away and frankly, the world left them behind long ago. We are the future.

Can't say as I disagree, there!

It really does seem now that people are just complaining because they can't have exactly what they want exactly when they want at exactly the price they want to pay for it. To that, there's very little to be said except "Such is life".

Got to say, on this - I'm finding this attitude is very often the common denominator among other people I know who complain loudest about RRPs and such. I handful of people I've spoken to about this have even been trying to use 'It should be available now' as an excuse to legitimise piracy - pretty dumb, in the age of the legal download. I really despair.

Running into that kind of stuff is really making me think a lot more about how I can couch my own criticisms. It's evident that there certainly IS an air of entitlement about certain parts of the fan base. So the worry is that any point you bring to a conversation might get dismissed as temming from those kinds of attitudes.

Messy business, cartoons!

I like this point as well:

As it currently stands, there's no sign that anyone has lost anything with this general shift towards premium offerings for shows which do well on the streaming side.

I tend to agree on this, although I do think maybe a bit of goodwill is being lost? Albeit for wrong reasons?

There's a bit of panic for some folks I speak to online as to whether those premium editions will be the ONLY way to pick up a show. Good example - I spoke to somebody the other day who was under the impression that 'nobody puts out complete collections anymore'. We know this is nonsense. But what makes the guy think that?

I'm really interested in this stuff, just because it seems like a few people I know are actually SORE at distributors over pricing release plans, etc. for shonky reasons. Some things, I think, are entirely acceptable to be critical of and feel annoyed about. But I've seen some nutsy stuff.

Maybe there's an aspect of certain fans not feeling catered to right now? Everybody naturally wants new stuff, so maybe that 'premium edition first model' sends the message to folks who aren't so invested or interested in industry chatter that anime is just too expensive for them.

 

[msgeek]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

It seems as though we are discussing something that is by no means unique to the anime industry here. Namely the saying;

Quality Releases
Speedy Releases
Cheap Releases

Choose two only for a single release;

Quality, Speedy releases won't be Cheap.
Speedy, Cheap releases won't be Quality.
Quality, Cheap releases won't be Speedy.

From what I understand no-one is suggesting we accept releases which cover only one of the above criteria (which indeed would be cause for concern), but it's about choosing the right two criteria for a given release. Even then it sounds like there will be alternate options that sacrifice quality to gain affordability. As long as two of those criteria exist for a given release, I don't think there's much to worry about.

 

[serpantino]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

The problem with premium releases is that a lot of us just don't want extra bits that push the price up and take up more shelf space.

I buy shows because I want to watch them in the best quality whenever I want and I don't like being forced to pay extra for art books/cards etc that I don't care about.

Edit: just to add, that a product is only worth what the majority of the target market will pay for it. Sure they might be very expensive in Japan but this isn't Japan and they can't get away with that kind of pricing over here so they can either sell at a price acceptable to this market and make some profit or overprice them and make no profit and risk further reducing an already niche market for their product.

 

[ayase]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

The problem with premium releases is that a lot of us just don't want extra bits that push the price up and take up more shelf space.

I buy shows because I want to watch them in the best quality whenever I want and I don't like being forced to pay extra for art books/cards etc that I don't care about.

The fact that you don't want to buy premium releases isn't really a "problem". You could just wait for the basic version, like people have always had to.

 

[serpantino]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

If they are released. I'm fine with waiting, I was specifically referring to when there's only a premium release because the Japanese license holders have an inflated opinion of their products value.

Having both hurts nobody and I was happy to wait for the standard cowboy bebop blurays and space dandy

 

[HdE]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

It seems as though we are discussing something that is by no means unique to the anime industry here. Namely the saying;

Quality Releases
Speedy Releases
Cheap Releases

Choose two only for a single release;

Quality, Speedy releases won't be Cheap.
Speedy, Cheap releases won't be Quality.
Quality, Cheap releases won't be Speedy.

From what I understand no-one is suggesting we accept releases which cover only one of the above criteria (which indeed would be cause for concern), but it's about choosing the right two criteria for a given release. Even then it sounds like there will be alternate options that sacrifice quality to gain affordability. As long as two of those criteria exist for a given release, I don't think there's much to worry about.

Aha! I like what you did there! I'd never have thought about applying the ol' 'two points of the triangle' rule to this.

Good summation of things at the end there as well. I was just thinking about how it could apply to the premium edition discussion, and while I can't think of anything that's 100% on point, it did make me realise that one of my own personal bugbears is the possibility that there'll be no other option in any given case, or that there'll be a standard edition release of something that's somehow deficient.

It doesn't really fit the discussion, but I was thinking about the UK release of Harlock - Space Pirate. That was a WOEFUL state of affairs. To be effectively dictated to as to content of the movie dependent on the format you bought it on? And to have no option to watch the director's cut in HD? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Like I say, it's maybe not 100% in keeping with this discussion, but it does maybe show that issues of content and format are pretty important to fans. Botch it, and prepare for outrage!

 

[NormanicGrav]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

It seems as though we are discussing something that is by no means unique to the anime industry here. Namely the saying;

Quality Releases
Speedy Releases
Cheap Releases

Choose two only for a single release;

Quality, Speedy releases won't be Cheap.
Speedy, Cheap releases won't be Quality.
Quality, Cheap releases won't be Speedy.

From what I understand no-one is suggesting we accept releases which cover only one of the above criteria (which indeed would be cause for concern), but it's about choosing the right two criteria for a given release. Even then it sounds like there will be alternate options that sacrifice quality to gain affordability. As long as two of those criteria exist for a given release, I don't think there's much to worry about.

If I had to place which company goes where it would probably go like this:

Quality, Speedy releases won't be Cheap.
Anime Limited
Aniplex of America
NIS America

Quality, Cheap releases won't be Speedy.
Animatsu
Discotek Media
Funimation
GKids
Maiden Japan

Speedy, Cheap releases won't be Quality.
Disney
Sentai Filmworks

Fails to qualify.
KAZE - Speedy and Slow, Cheap and No Cheap, No Quality
Manga UK - Slow, Cheap and No Cheap, No Quality
MVM - Speedy and Slow, Cheap and No Cheap, Quality and No Quality
Media Blasters - Slow, Cheap, Quality and No Quality
New Video Group - Slow, Cheap, Quality and No Quality
Pony Canyon USA - Speedy, No Cheap, Quality and No Quality

Depends what you define as Cheap. Whether it's by price or by the content of the product; for instance Ghost in the Shell Steelbook is cheap in terms of content but not in terms of price (unless discounted).

 

[msgeek]

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Hmmm... OK, I've got to admit I not familiar enough with the gap between the Japanese release and UK release to decide for most releases if they are speedy, however, as a general principal, I think most releases should be aiming for two of those three criteria. If they aren't then the company is doing it wrong.

In the case of MVM, I think it is their intention to actually do a release that covers each of those three criteria;

If you want a speedy, quality release then buy the CE. It won't be cheap.
If you want a speedy, cheap release then buy the DVD. It will lack some of the quality.
If you want a quality, cheap release then wait for the regular BR or for the CE to drop in price. It won't be speedy.

It seems like we are being given more choice rather than less here. Although only actually evaluating what happens will tell I guess.