UK Anime Distributor MVM Entertainment Discussion Thread

Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Of course, this also raises the question that amongst casual fans, 'speediness' is perhaps not an issue, as if you were only aware of the show via its UK release (unlikely, I know, but potentially true in the case of really casual fans) then when it original aired in Japan doesn't really matter to you.

I'd love to see a breakdown for some shows of who buys them - ie. casual fans vs. hardcore. Hardcore being, the type of fan who will buy 60%+ of all anime releases in a year.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

The talk about Accel World earlier also reminded me of another statistic I'd like to know more about; adoption of shows which had no legal UK stream versus those which did.

In the old days, I'd pick out which titles to buy based on the on-disc trailers, magazine articles etc. It's become a little weird now; the on-disc trailers are lacklustre (and in the UK, often for shows which aren't even coming out here!) and I don't trust either of the two UK magazines due to their apathy about preventing piracy. The big news sites are completely inconsistent in what they cover and misinformation spreads like wildfire. Everything feels oddly decentralised where information circulates in communities according to how popular the series happens to be rather than based on availability. I often feel frustrated when I want to find out basic information about releases and it's spread all over Facebook, Twitter, podcasts and heaven only knows where else; at least MVM's shop means you can usually rely on accurate information there.

What I'm trying to say is that if I wasn't devotedly reading anime news every single day, I'd miss a ton of information on releases. Accel World is a stellar show (ok, it got a bit weaker towards the end) with a great soundtrack and lots of elements you'd imagine would appeal; it deals with a teenage cast, online gaming and identity. What's not to like? But how would someone know that it isn't crummy if they only have box art and a short description to go on?

Streaming means I check out most shows being simulcast, so I'm already primed for the home video releases if I liked what I saw (and I usually do, despite my crabby attitude). When a show comes out which wasn't streamed, it's an unknown quantity which needs to work much harder to get my attention. Sure, in the past I was buying everything blind by default and anime isn't really expensive any more - but at the same time, I've become accustomed to trying before I buy. And frankly, the shows I end up liking unexpectedly during their simulcasts are picking up the slack to the extent where I can't spare the time or money to give the unknowns a chance any more.

I really like PonyCan USA's throwback to the old days of having dedicated series websites, though this is a lot of work for something which probably barely increases sales and isn't really useful for local distributors. I wonder how things can be improved without overwhelming the small companies?

R
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

The thing is, I think a lot of the individual parts are working well - heck, despite all their troubles, Manga are still tweeting/updating their blog pretty regularly. The trouble comes, I think, in that pretty much all anime marketing in the UK is preaching to the converted - if you don't plug in online to Twitter/FB/anime news sites and don't read NEO or MyM I'm not quite sure where you'd get any knowledge of new anime coming out other than actually looking at what was selling on Amazon.

The scary thing is, going by recent sales figures, I'd estimate the size of the UK's 'hardcore' anime fanbase at only around 500 people. This is the average of what shows usually sell within their first six months on sale at the moment. Pretty scary, right? All those thousands of people going to MCM, yet only 500 people that actually buy the majority of titles that come out. That's not just a niche, that's a niche within a niche. No-name indie bands sell more copies of their album in the first week than that.

Is that sustainable? Bleach is nearly finished in terms of UK releases. Naruto will be eventually too (and sells a fraction of what it used to). Fairy Tail is now DVD only. When the fans that prop these shows up tail off, where are the new casuals going to come from? Are all UK distributors going to have to adopt a higher pricing strategy to survive?
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Lutga said:
Of course, this also raises the question that amongst casual fans, 'speediness' is perhaps not an issue, as if you were only aware of the show via its UK release (unlikely, I know, but potentially true in the case of really casual fans) then when it original aired in Japan doesn't really matter to you.

I'd love to see a breakdown for some shows of who buys them - ie. casual fans vs. hardcore. Hardcore being, the type of fan who will buy 60%+ of all anime releases in a year.

I choose not to be aware of anime until it sees a planned physical release in the US/UK market (region free in the case of US Blu-rays) only then do I start looking into the anime, that way I avoid the long waiting game or disappointment when a show I really enjoyed never makes it. It also stops me going too crazy spending limited funds entirely on anime!
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

The numbers are disheartening. I think physical releases are often only purchased by a lot of the MCM crowd when they have disposable income. If I want to be optimistic, I think a large number of the MCM crowd don't necessarily fall into the category of having much disposable income, but give it a couple of years and that should change. Hopefully by that point enough of them will have the desire for physical releases for those numbers to really start heading in the right direction.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Yeah that's part of why I don't mind my rule of only watching simulcasts for shows which are UK-accessible - it also means I can recommend them to my less-bothered friends without them having to jump through hoops. If I start streaming more things which will never be available here then I'll just end up importing more JP sets and bankrupting myself. I do that enough already.

Lutga: I haven't bothered going to MCM for a while as it tends to leave me with a disappointed void in my soul but the last few times I was appalled by some of the things I heard there. People were standing right in front of the MVM/AL booths and bragging about how they torrented various hot titles, even going as far as sneering at the people lined up to buy as though they were fools. To be honest I see it more as a giant cosplay party than a serious industry event, especially since the organisers don't give a hoot about all the bootleg stuff so long as the exhibitors pay their booth fee. There are a ton of people there but only a minority seem interested in sustaining the industry their hobbies rely upon.

It's also sad when a bowl of (terrible) noodles at the venue costs more than an entire anime series direct from MVM's stall and still people pass by. How cheap do releases have to become before disinterested people are tempted to pick them up? Another reason I strongly believe that the 'reduce prices, increase the market size' argument is flawed; younger fans aren't interested in barebones releases any more. This could be a counter to my assumption that legal streaming is necessary to spread awareness since you could argue that making it exclusive to home video will encourage sales - except I'm pretty sure they're going to find a way to see the show if it's trendy either way, and it still doesn't make people want to spend £10 on a DVD set.

R
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Yeah, the attitude toward piracy amongst certain sectors of fandom kind of sickens me - I've definitely seen on more than one occasion fans almost delighting in commenting in posting on distributors social channels saying 'Why should I buy it, I've got the fansub already/downloading the torrent as we speak'. It actually makes me sick, just the entitlement of it all.

A while back, I thought Manga's cheap-as-chips approach was the right way forward - it seemed to have helped stuff like Code Geass and High School DxD to very strong sales figures (and discounted titles like Ouran still sell strongly to this day), but I don't think it's sustainable - it might get a few more casual consumers who perhaps see the title reduced on Amazon or in HMV, but the future is definitely the Anime Ltd model. Physical sales will only decrease as more people take up legal streaming.

I think the next logical step would be for Crunchyroll to set up a dedicated UK content team and start doing some of the real hands-on activity Anime Ltd and Viewster have been doing in terms of building an engaged community. That, or some of the Japanese license holders actually getting properly set up in the UK/international (perhaps a Europe wide entity) and listening to the fans, reducing the lead time on releases, making sure all the extras over, making sure OP themes go up on iTunes the week the show first airs etc.

But like that's going to happen anytime soon, right?
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Rui said:
Accel World is a stellar show
For the sake of balance, I watched the first couple of episodes and thought they were turd. Moreover, the almighty Rossman rated it 1.5 out of 23.9 Points of Virtuosity.

The bigger issue here is that there are five distributors in the UK, and while some put out more product than others, that's still a lot of product. And they're selling to a core audience of, what, a few thousand? High profile and (arguably) high quality shows such as Fate/Zero, Kill la Kill, and Monogatari - the latter in barebones SINGLES no less - have all sold well. Middling shows like Accel World are therefore left to fight over the scraps of whatever remains of the fanbase's limited funds.

As for whether legal streaming affects disc sales, I'd say possibly but I question how big an impact it would have when a lack of legal streaming options is hardly a barrier unless you're staunchly anti-fansub - and I wager those fans are in the minority.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Horses for courses. Whatever you might personally think about Accel World, it's still the same kind of show as the stratospherically popular Sword Art Online and in some respects much better. I'm not saying it's going to go down in history as the greatest anime I've ever seen, but I enjoyed the ride well enough and it hits all the right notes when it comes to trendy elements which should have mass appeal.

I agree that anti-'fansub' (can we stop calling them this now they're just glorified rips of legal streams?) fans are a tiny minority of the anime viewing audience. Are they such a tiny minority of the anime buying audience? I'm not so sure; even on this relatively hardcore forum many people have come out and said they aren't interested in illegal streaming. Many aren't even interested in legal streaming, though I hope they'll eventually come around because it's awesome.

--

It's interesting that Ouran does well despite its horrific release here, since it also does well in the US and it's one of those titles aimed at the dreaded female demographic. What Ouran seems to do differently to a lot of other titles is that it has a massive fanbase online and even now there are loads of cosplayers, artists and fanfic writers devoted to it; it's not a case of some forgettable show being thrown into the market and left to sink or swim on its own. It also ties in with a (legal, physical relase of a) manga, which means that fans looking to buy one will probably stumble upon the other and get curious. Code Geass is also legendary online; everyone has an opinion on it, positive or negative, and it produced lots of memes which seem to give it a sustained appeal. People will probably stumble across it at some point and consider picking it up.

(I draw the line at attempting to explain High School DxD though; there are much better fan service titles out there...)

The problem is with the more 'average' shows which don't have that level of buzz around them. I've said this before but what I really appreciate about companies like Nozomi and Anime Limited is they try to hype up all of their shows as much as possible; you feel as though they're all individual titles which real people worked on and brought to life. It makes them stand out. The UK market tends to fall back on just pushing stuff out there and assuming the online fan community will cluster around it, but what about shows which have no real presence online? I've heard of Accel World because I'm a nerd who lives on the Internet. I would bet money that none of my more casual friends would recognise the name - it's not generated any cool memes and unless you collect figures (Kuroyukihime's design seems to turn heads) you probably wouldn't know it exists. Naturally, they wouldn't ever be looking it up in the first place to discover it has a UK release.

I really like what MVM are trying with NagiAsu since they've managed to capture a sale to me for once (I already had the US version of Accel World). If you're only marketing to the initiated, it makes sense to go all-out and make sure you get the attention of that group, which they have most certainly managed to do this time. But for titles which can't support a premium release, there has to be a better way of spreading awareness than just throwing them out there and hoping people will come.

R
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Elaniel said:
I think with so many people having moved onto streaming, the physical products have to have something extra to encourage more to buy the Blu-Ray/DVD. You'll automatically grab the collector crowd, and if someone enjoyed a streaming show, they may see it worth having more with some nice packaging and extras. I'm certainly not one for tat (IE: panties and eye patches) but do like a good artbook.

Also, licensing restrictions may require a premium price, so the extra items tend to soften that blow a little for having to pay more.

It would be really interesting to see how very similar shows do sales wise if one was a collectors and one not. (IE: Show A Collector Edition sells 200 at £40 and Show B Standard Edition sells 300 at £20. Which one is obviously going to be favorable to the company?)

But that's just an oddity of the anime genre in the UK as I doubt a big mainstream streaming show like Daredevil will need fancy packaging when it gets physically released to help sell it in that format.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Elaniel said:
I think with so many people having moved onto streaming, the physical products have to have something extra to encourage more to buy the Blu-Ray/DVD. You'll automatically grab the collector crowd, and if someone enjoyed a streaming show, they may see it worth having more with some nice packaging and extras. I'm certainly not one for tat (IE: panties and eye patches) but do like a good artbook.

Also, licensing restrictions may require a premium price, so the extra items tend to soften that blow a little for having to pay more.

It would be really interesting to see how very similar shows do sales wise if one was a collectors and one not. (IE: Show A Collector Edition sells 200 at £40 and Show B Standard Edition sells 300 at £20. Which one is obviously going to be favorable to the company?)

I believe Anime Ltd. are releasing/were planning to release Space Dandy: Box 2 simultaneously in both collector's and standard editions. That could provide an indicator of which format customers most prefer.

You couldn't neccesarily use it to work out which does/would do best for the company though as you'd have to assume the people that brought collector's wouldn't buy a standard and the people that brought standard wouldn't buy collector's.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I totally agree. Mainstream things are entirely different, but anime being so niche, just a few copies makes a huge difference.

I'm trying to look at it from a business perspective, if all that mattered was quantity > cost, then we would see things much cheaper. I probably didn't use the best analogy. It's usually better to make more profit from selling less at a higher price than more at a lower price. However there is usually a very thin line.

We've been in a golden age for so long for fantastic value, things had to change. I'm not expecting to go back to expensive singles, but certain shows / films will sell better to collectors. It's similar to video games and having collectors editions (albeit a standard edition does come out at the same time). Fans will buy a premium product, and a company would be silly to not try and make more money.

I think Space Dandy might be a case of hoping it could crossover into the mainstream, as it was a Cartoon Network show in the states. So that would be appealing to a casual crowd.

If I enjoy a streaming show (but do not love it) I perhaps will not buy it. If there is something extra, that gives me an incentive to own it. Otherwise I could just go back and stream it on Crunchyroll, Viewster, etc.

I believe this subject is one that could go on forever, as everyone wants something different. There's even releases I will not buy due to cost. I was not going to pay AoA prices for the Madoka movies or Valvrave.

I quite like the options currently with some collectors and some standard releases. Also, while it's great to support the UK companies, if for instance you just want a cheap set, there's always importing certain films/series from the USA.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Interesting to hear that Accel World did badly enough that MVM don't want to release a complete collection on Blu-ray.

I noticed that MVM announced Hidamari Sketch, I'm interested to see how well that kind of show will do in the UK (I don't think there are many/any others that have been released here). I guess I'll have to pick it up because I need to have three copies of the show. I hope it's Blu-ray at least, I'd rather have a backup of that than the DVD.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I think (hope) Hidamari Sketch will do well because it's Shaft - although that didn't help Arakawa Under The Bridge, which did really badly. It looks like Madoka in terms of art style though, so maybe that will help.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Lutga said:
The scary thing is, going by recent sales figures, I'd estimate the size of the UK's 'hardcore' anime fanbase at only around 500 people. This is the average of what shows usually sell within their first six months on sale at the moment. Pretty scary, right? All those thousands of people going to MCM, yet only 500 people that actually buy the majority of titles that come out. That's not just a niche, that's a niche within a niche. No-name indie bands sell more copies of their album in the first week than that.

Is that sustainable?

I doubt it. Although I'd expect there were significant sales being made outside that core group.

But those numbers speak to my old (ongoing) argument that anime requires promotion. The point somebody made upthread about the industry's promotion being channelled toward people they're already selling to - preaching to the converted - is a really good one. Advertising to people who are already buying your product isn't actually a bad idea, but it may be better to trget people who haven;t discovered your product yet.

Consider this: I was doing some research earlier over on YouTube for something I'm writing. I found a few videos there which show non-fans watching anime for the first time, or talking about what they *think* it is, and their general assumptions of the medium.

Anime has been sold in the West in quantity since the beginning of the 1990s. The market has subsisted for over a quarter of a century. But the videos I saw today show how ill-informed the public still are. How? Why?

One woman, asked what she thought anime was, replied 'I think it's all porn.'
Another guy responded 'I think those are like cartoons, but from Japan, right?'
And recently, I had to defend myself for owning anime in a discussion because of some bizarre ideas one of my acquaintances had about it.

If anime was being pushed properly, I really think we'd see a LOT less of that. WHY does the 'anime = cartoon porn' prejudice still exist? The fact is, it's still regarded by many as being weird and left of field. And something about that set-up ain't right. You can't just shrug and say 'oh well, I guess it's not for everybody...' you could address this with a considered method of advertising. Even if it's just as simple as drip-feeding it to the public on a regular basis.

You know what got me into anime when I was a kid? I saw screenshots in a video gaming magazine. Static pictures. That's all it took to make me a lifelong fan.


Lutga said:
Are all UK distributors going to have to adopt a higher pricing strategy to survive?
If that's what happens, it'll be a counter-intuitive step.

Fans who are already bitching about prices would only feel further alienated. And those who are unrepentantly pirating anime would doubtless feel further vindicated in that decision. Lower prices may not equate to more sales, but higher prices will almost certainly equate to less. And again, I think that shows why savvy promotion is vital.

But it's weird - from my involvement in comics, I can say pretty confidently that almost NO-ONE wants to spend money on advertising. There's a bizarre insistence that it doesn't work. But it DOES work. DC Comics availed themselves of TV advertising in the states a few years back with their New 52 relaunch, and it appeared to have a tangible impact on their sales. They were clever about it, and it worked. A ton of indie and self publisher guys are focusing all their efforts into the same direction as our anime distros... and guess what? The effect is negligible.


I'm also convinced that piracy is still a massive problem. But that's probably best left for other epic length essay at another time. :p
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

HdE said:
Lower prices may not equate to more sales, but higher prices will almost certainly equate to less.
It feels like we've been through this before, but does less sales at a higher price equal less profit? Because ultimately that's what matters and I don't imagine the UK distributors all sat round a big table and said, "Hey, let's start selling anime more expensively and make less money!"

HdE said:
You can't just shrug and say 'oh well, I guess it's not for everybody...'
Well, technically you can.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

ayase said:
It feels like we've been through this before, but does less sales at a higher price equal less profit? Because ultimately that's what matters and I don't imagine the UK distributors all sat round a big table and said, "Hey, let's start selling anime more expensively and make less money!".

On the basis of what Andrew Partridge keeps saying, Aniplex of America and the Japanese decided they needed to set higher prices for them, and they're left trying to make it value for money. (This is a quote from AL's Facebook in relation to SAOII.)

We have to follow a more global English strategy for this one, where there are some differences but several things remain the same:

- Basic volume count
- Roughly speaking pricing

We negotiated for the UK several discounts so you save over £100 vs the US release

It's a little bit rubbish that they can have prices and episode counts forced on them, but given the fear over reverse importation, and in Aniplex of America's case importation from the UK/AU into the US, you can see why they do it.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

ayase said:
It feels like we've been through this before, but does less sales at a higher price equal less profit?

Only coz we have been. :p

But my answer to that would be 'not necessarily.' And that's another reason why you have to promote and advertise, really. You can't sell anything to people who are only tangentially aware - if at all - that a product exists.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

I'd agree that some kind of advertising and awareness building is important but I'm not sure how that should be done. More to the point, I'm not sure who would do it. Most of the companies involved in distributing anime would probably struggle to find spare money to put into advertising and unless there was a major (or at least very clever) campaign it's unlikely there'd be a sufficient benefit. Even if things did work out, it'd take time for the effects to be felt so I guess the companies that could do the advertising just don't feel it's worth the risk. At the very least, it'd likely mean less releases for us for a while.

Maybe what anime could do with is something like Avengers Assemble (or I guess maybe Iron Man started it), It seems that the success of the Marvel films has contributed to growth in related comics and animations and "normal" people seem to be more accepting of comics and such these days. Okay, that's not actually based on solid evidence at all but I'd be surprised if it wasn't true.
 
Re: [UK Anime Distributor] MVM Entertainment Discussion Thre

Smeelia said:
It seems that the success of the Marvel films has contributed to growth in related comics and animations and "normal" people seem to be more accepting of comics and such these days.
Yes. That's true.

Whether that's a positive development or not depends on your point of view.
 
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