Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictions

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I understand the problems with reverse importing, but Jerome is using them as a quick excuse for all kinds of problems which don't have anything to do with reverse importing in the first place (like Evangelion 3.33).

If a Japanese fan wants to buy Evangelion 3.33 as a grey import, they already have the choice of a region A option which costs less than the Japanese release and includes the full Japanese language track with HD video. If they want a region B copy for some reason, they can pop to Amazon Europe and grab the French or German editions at a great price. What does FUNimation's (and by extension, Manga's) version offer that the Hong Kong disc does not for a grey importer? If the presence of an English dub is making Japanese fans rush out and buy FUNimation releases then more companies would put them for the Japanese releases in the first place, but I've yet to see an official Eva 2.22: International Edition rerelease tearing up the charts there.

The facts don't make sense here. It's a FUNimation/MangaUK/Madman problem, not a Japan problem, surely.

Reading back I'm not sure that Jerome actually lied so much as joked around and let the fans run with the usual 'Japan hates us' excuse without denying that the problem was with some element of the English dub instead (another tweet from Manga suggests the sub version might not be complete either which doesn't seem right). We'll never know what the actual problem with the dub is unless a rep tells us the details, but since the earlier dubs for French, German and Dutch were signed off back in 2013 I think it's safe to assume that the Japanese side has some kind of reason for whatever it's doing. I'd love to know what the actual issue is, because otherwise I can only assume that distributors in other regions are simply better at negotiating with Japan ^^;;

R

 

[reborn]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Could one possibility be that the director of the film weren't happy with the english dub/sub? Would a director be able to get a release delayed?

Since Jerome has started to blame Japan and the tweet about the 'Perfectionist Director' being a massive nightmare. Though I suppose he could be referring to the timescale and delays between the films being released in general.

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

While it's tempting to make a cheapshot about the quality of the dubbing, I wonder if the actual reason is that the US team unwittingly made a script choice somewhere which doesn't fit with the plans for the next film? We've often seen cases where a team will start translating a manga or anime, and of course thanks to the many differences between English and Japanese they have to adapt some parts to make sense in the new language. Then a future volume comes out in Japan and it turns out that the original translation doesn't make sense any more because new information is included.

What if one of these minor changes in the adaptation ended up accidentally having some pivotal importance in the next film? I assume it would have to be something major to require so much time to fix. Jerome might think that forcing them to pronounce the characters' names correctly or to keep a particular line a certain way is because the staff are control freaks (he's not so good at emphasising with people with different personality types) but he might not realise how important it is to the ongoing story yet either.

That's the best reason I can think of that avoids slurring anyone involved in the process. If any of the people who watched the early dub screenings last year in the US happen to have been born with a perfect memory, perhaps they'll notice the difference(s) when the rerelease is finally ready...

R

 

[burtkenobi]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I think Japanese companies are worried about a cheap blu ray available on amazon USA rather than a Hong Kong sub only release; Funi won't release a flagship title sub-only - can you imagine the negative feedback and reviews on, again, amazon?

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

The joke in all this is that, at least American wise, Eva will sell regardless of when it launches and if the entire thing was replaced with Nice Boat under License Mandate.

 

[Rosencrantz]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I think Japanese companies are worried about a cheap blu ray available on amazon USA rather than a Hong Kong sub only release; Funi won't release a flagship title sub-only - can you imagine the negative feedback and reviews on, again, amazon?

I think the point was the Hong Kong Sub only is going to be cheap and offer Japanese language with HD video. Unless the subs are locked on it's surely good enough for anyone in Japan to import if they want a cheap copy.

 

[Shiroi Hane]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Could one possibility be that the director of the film weren't happy with the english dub/sub? Would a director be able to get a release delayed?

Since Jerome has started to blame Japan and the tweet about the 'Perfectionist Director' being a massive nightmare. Though I suppose he could be referring to the timescale and delays between the films being released in general.

FUNimation's statement of "working very closely with the studio in Japan to make this release as close to the creator's vision as we can" seems to be a tactful way of saying someone was being difficult about something. Manga and Madman are both being pretty clear about the delay being with receiving the English-language materials.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I wonder...in regards to the reverse importation reasoning, how would Japan react if MangaUK and other Region B licensors requested that Japan and America stopped releasing region free properties, claiming that (tbh, quite rightly) that importation of region A/B and A/B/C discs from Region A regions is hurting the Region B markets?

The only issue I can see is when FUNimation has the African licenses to certain shows, but do they even sell directly to South Africa?

 

[NormanicGrav]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I wonder...in regards to the reverse importation reasoning, how would Japan react if MangaUK and other Region B licensors requested that Japan and America stopped releasing region free properties, claiming that (tbh, quite rightly) that importation of region A/B and A/B/C discs from Region A regions is hurting the Region B markets?

The only issue I can see is when FUNimation has the African licenses to certain shows, but do they even sell directly to South Africa?

I don't know. I hope they don't see this question and mention it in the podcast. :lol:

Then again, I still don't get how the European market (French, Spain, Germany, Italy) are able to release their anime perfectly fine and early while English areas suffer (aside from the whole duration to make an English dub).

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I wonder...in regards to the reverse importation reasoning, how would Japan react if MangaUK and other Region B licensors requested that Japan and America stopped releasing region free properties, claiming that (tbh, quite rightly) that importation of region A/B and A/B/C discs from Region A regions is hurting the Region B markets?

The only issue I can see is when FUNimation has the African licenses to certain shows, but do they even sell directly to South Africa?

I don't know. I hope they don't see this question and mention it in the podcast. :lol:

I did poke Jerome for his opinion on Twitter (even asking if the reaction would be "In this case the importing benefits us, so we don't care" which I imagine it would be). I'd be very interested in the answer to be honest (especially as there are some foreign distributors such as Aniplex USA who do outright advertise the fact that Japanese import releases can be sold to the UK).

Then again, I still don't get how the European market (French, Spain, Germany, Italy) are able to release their anime perfectly fine and early while English areas suffer (aside from the whole duration to make an English dub).

I wonder if it's because of the English language's presence as a major international language (but then again, isn't Germany commonly used for business too?). At least where the UK is concerned, individual agreements involving U.S. licensors tends to be the biggest reason for our later releases.

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I think that would be a stupid move. Region free is a much better model for everyone with the exception of local distributors - who should really be providing more of a reason to buy their products than one they have created themselves through forcing everyone to buy locally against their will. Why do they even exist if they can only interest people in their products by brute force?

It wouldn't affect hardcore importers anyway since you can have a region A setup for a reasonable price if you don't specifically want a multi-region player. And guess who that hurts more?

Honestly, if there was a choice between two otherwise-identical discs for the same price - an unlocked version from overseas and one from the UK with a region B lock - I'd pay the extra shipping to get the unlocked one. It's just a better deal when region locking does nothing but screw customers over. I don't like supporting its existence.

R

 

[Mangaranga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I wonder...in regards to the reverse importation reasoning, how would Japan react if MangaUK and other Region B licensors requested that Japan and America stopped releasing region free properties, claiming that (tbh, quite rightly) that importation of region A/B and A/B/C discs from Region A regions is hurting the Region B markets?

The Japanese licensors would probably tell them to f' off, considering they're only Licensing a show to sell dirt cheap here in comparison to Japan and other regions. It'd also be incredibly stupid to even ask that as it blocks exports of Japanese BDs when they need all the sales they can get in the first place. I mean honestly, how relevant are region B English speaking territories to Japan anyway? Everything regarding Dubs and Subs are done in the US/Japan in the first place, and the UK market for anime on home video isn't exactly massive.

(especially as there are some foreign distributors such as Aniplex USA who do outright advertise the fact that Japanese import releases can be sold to the UK).

Well to be fair, Aniplex USA is funded and owned by Aniplex Japan, so all they're effectively doing is marketing the product for them. I did like how Aniplex Guy advertised the Persona 3 Movie at MCM, although I can't imagine many people rushed off to import it though! (I imported! )

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Aniplex USA products are on such a different level to Manga UK releases that they can't really be considered actual competitors. I have never once looked at one of AoA's gorgeous product shots and thought to myself, "Wait, I could wait six months and get a barebones UK release for a fraction of the price!". It's a different market so I don't see why it would upset anyone.

R

 

[Mangaranga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Aniplex USA products are on such a different level to Manga UK releases that they can't really be considered actual competitors. I have never once looked at one of AoA's gorgeous product shots and thought to myself, "Wait, I could wait six months and get a barebones UK release for a fraction of the price!". It's a different market so I don't see why it would upset anyone.

R

I usually end up thinking exactly the same thing, although you can add "I could wait six months and get a 2 disc release, with issues, AND heavily compressed video!"
Personally I'm all for Aniplex USA's model. You get what you pay for, and that's also reflected here in the UK.

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Aniplex USA products are on such a different level to Manga UK releases that they can't really be considered actual competitors. I have never once looked at one of AoA's gorgeous product shots and thought to myself, "Wait, I could wait six months and get a barebones UK release for a fraction of the price!". It's a different market so I don't see why it would upset anyone.

R

I usually end up thinking exactly the same thing, although you can add "I could wait six months and get a 2 disc release, with issues, AND heavily compressed video!"
Personally I'm all for Aniplex USA's model. You get what you pay for, and that's also reflected here in the UK.

See, I was trying to be kind and not mention all of the special extra 'features' the UK editions tend to get ^^;

Just placed my order for Valvrave; again, waiting for a potential future UK edition never crossed my mind. All region lock enforcement would do at this point is make the UK companies look like jerks.

R

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

In regards to AniplexUSA, if memory serves me well, the only products they've outright advertised as being available to UK customers are Japanese import releases. Although even their local releases are region free.

Personally, whether I buy an Aniplex USA release or wait for a local one depends on how much I like a property. I bought all of their Madoka releases (and am really torn about the dubbed release of the movies and whether I want to double dip) but for others, I am willing to wait for a cheaper alternative (I would have bought MangaUK's Sword Art Online release if not for the errors in the first two parts).

I think that would be a stupid move. Region free is a much better model for everyone with the exception of local distributors - who should really be providing more of a reason to buy their products than one they have created themselves through forcing everyone to buy locally against their will. Why do they even exist if they can only interest people in their products by brute force?

It wouldn't affect hardcore importers anyway since you can have a region A setup for a reasonable price if you don't specifically want a multi-region player. And guess who that hurts more?

Honestly, if there was a choice between two otherwise-identical discs for the same price - an unlocked version from overseas and one from the UK with a region B lock - I'd pay the extra shipping to get the unlocked one. It's just a better deal when region locking does nothing but screw customers over. I don't like supporting its existence.

R

I agree 100% - I'm completely for the absolute abolition of region-locking practices. It just strikes me as very odd that Japan is painted as this big bad monster who hates the thought of people importing the foreign releases into Japan, but doesn't bat an eye-lid to release pretty much everything as Regions A/B/C when Japan is designated as a Region A country.

The question of how much important the western anime industry has as a whole is often debated and estimated to be about 10% in regards to revenues, but my completely uneducated guess is that less than 10% of a Japanese blu-ray's sales will be coming from Region B or C territories. So, what do Japan really have to gain by releasing everything without region protection? Could it be like Mangaranga suggested - to bait the hardcore foreign fans to import from Japan? Because if so, then it would be pretty darn hypocritical.

 

[Mangaranga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

So, what do Japan really have to gain by releasing everything without region protection? Could it be like Mangaranga suggested - to bait the hardcore foreign fans to import from Japan? Because if so, then it would be pretty darn hypocritical.

Potential sales in what is already a niche market. Think about it this way, if you were to release something you'd created yourself and poured lots of money into at retail, would you lock it to region B?

I wouldn't say "Bait the Hardcore Foreign Fans", more like give us the option. I'm importing the Code Geass and GiTS ARISE sets as they come out because I'll get them faster, get better quality sets and I don't care about a dub. I recently pulled the trigger on the Japanese sub K-On BD Box despite a cheaper, inferior, barebones release being available in AU. It also means that much more of my money's going straight back to the source which in turns helps to churn out more of what I want. It's a win win situation for both parties here, we get better releases and the JP Distri's get more money to re-invest.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

So, what do Japan really have to gain by releasing everything without region protection? Could it be like Mangaranga suggested - to bait the hardcore foreign fans to import from Japan? Because if so, then it would be pretty darn hypocritical.

Potential sales in what is already a niche market. Think about it this way, if you were to release something you'd created yourself and poured lots of money into at retail, would you lock it to region B?

I wouldn't say "Bait the Hardcore Foreign Fans", more like give us the option. I'm importing the Code Geass and GiTS ARISE sets as they come out because I'll get them faster, get better quality sets and I don't care about a dub. I recently pulled the trigger on the Japanese sub K-On BD Box despite a cheaper, inferior, barebones release being available in AU. It also means that much more of my money's going straight back to the source which in turns helps to churn out more of what I want. It's a win win situation for both parties here, we get better releases and the JP Distri's get more money to re-invest.

You say it's a "win win situation for both parties" but you're forgetting an important third party - the local distributor of the series. In the example you gave, Kazé (as we all know what happened to the K-ON! season one blu-ray, so it's not like you're buying a direct competitor in that sense - seemingly, Japan would have let MangaUK do it, but they didn't want to). While I personally don't object to giving Kazé the middle finger, on a larger scale, it isn't a healthy situation at all. The more local distributors get shunned for one reason or another, the more niche anime is ultimately going to become.

I mean, it's no wonder that MangaUK's release of Puella Magi Madoka Magica flopped - while an amazing series, it didn't have widespread appeal and to make it worse, Aniplex of America offered absolutely amazing collectors editions that were region free, while all MangaUK could do was release a barebones set (admittedly, they were allowed to do a complete collection...but compare that to soundtrack CDs, booklets, art cards etc).

Japan are still licensing their products out for overseas distribution - increasingly before a Japanese home video release even occurs. If I was an anime licensor who put forward tens of thousands of pounds towards the license of a series or movie, only for the company I bought the license from to release a version that can be played in the target region of my release and be flashier than anything I'd be allowed to release, I'd be pissed and feel like the Japanese licensor simply don't respect the company I represent.
Sure, there's the argument that local distributors should be doing more to offer a better local product to discourage such important, but Japan isn't allowing that at the moment in case the Japanese choose to import our local releases.

At least the majority of Japanese blu-ray releases don't feature English subtitles (and the ones that do are usually targeted for an international audience anyway, such as Aniplex's import releases). But the issue does come up again with some American releases (although aren't some of them due to the license holder having the South African rights too?).

I remember hearing of how Kodansha once published editions of the Love Hina manga that featured both Japanese and English text, as a kind of special edition intended to help teach Japanese people English. Tokyopop however, noticed that a lot of fans realised that it was cheaper to import the Japanese bilingual edition, so as they owned the English language rights to the manga, they were able to send Kodansha a C&D letter and they obliged. So who knows what an anime licensor might say (or be forced to do, depending on the terms of particular contracts)?

 

[SnowWolf]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I bought all of their Madoka releases (and am really torn about the dubbed release of the movies and whether I want to double dip) but for others, I am willing to wait for a cheaper alternative (I would have bought MangaUK's Sword Art Online release if not for the errors in the first two parts).

Are you hoping the dub has been rerecorded? I'm buying the Madoka Movie set. It might take 3 weeks to arrive from the states but I'll let you know if it is.

I remember hearing of how Kodansha once published editions of the Love Hina manga that featured both Japanese and English text, as a kind of special edition intended to help teach Japanese people English. Tokyopop however, noticed that a lot of fans realised that it was cheaper to import the Japanese bilingual edition, so as they owned the English language rights to the manga, they were able to send Kodansha a C&D letter and they obliged. So who knows what an anime licensor might say (or be forced to do, depending on the terms of particular contracts)?

Kodansha Japan did bilingual editions of Cardcaptor Sakura and Fruits Basket too. Same problem. I've got volume 1 of the CCS release.

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I maintain that local distributors need to justify their existence by providing a service people want, not locking people in to barebones local offerings by wasting their time badgering Japan to cut the UK out from its special editions.

I decided to check out Manga's Twitter feed today as it's confusing keeping track of their hints from the News thread and I came away feeling very confused. I saw that they had secretly added the Fairy Tale movie to Amazon VOD (as reported in the news thread). I think this is a good idea because we need more digital availability in this day and age, but it's baffling that they aren't promoting it (to the extent that people are having to ask whether it was even added by them in the first place). The 'secret' iTunes episodes which have started appearing from certain distributors fall into the same category.

The following exchange on MangaUK's Twitter feed subsequently caught my eye (sorry to steal your conversation, GolGotha!).

@MangaUK Anime is shown on TV, but except for Studio Ghibli, no one promotes it. Sony is airing Black Lagoon & you haven't said anything!
@Golly_Gotha Because no-one @AnimaxUK @sonytvuk or @KazeUK have bothered to tell us about it. I'm not psychic. Sorry. >JM
@MangaUK I'm not expecting you to be psychic, but as I informed you about it last August I thought you would of tried to get sales from it.
@Golly_Gotha Hi Golly! Thanks for your question. I am sorry for being pithy. May I ask you how many people you think watch v Sony channel?
@MangaUK I don't know, but whatever the number I'm sure that you would benefit from promoting it. Because of the channel I am now going to..
@MangaUK purchase the Mardock Scramble movies, Black Lagoon OVAs & Bleach Season 1. I've already purchased the Bleach movies because of it.
@MangaUK In this day and age, there is so much choice out there that blind buys aren't feasible in the same way as they used to be. Plus...
@MangaUK the age of singles are gone, so you can't just try out a few episodes & see if there series is for you. You have to commit to the
@MangaUK whole series. So, if we allow for people to sample the series, legally, before they commit, then I think you'll have more buyers.
@Golly_Gotha That is awesome and I am all for "try before you buy" these days although I'll admit I wasn't initially. And that's why...
@Golly_Gotha we (Manga) is currently posting links to @NetflixUK for #KnightsOfSidonia even though we don't own it. Because we believe that
@Golly_Gotha like television, VOD is as good a platform as any to help build an audience for a new film/show. The bigger the audience...
@Golly_Gotha the more DVDs and Blu-rays we can potentially sell. That's why we are distributing #AshensAndTheQuestForTheGamechild which is
@Golly_Gotha ...out on Monday http://amzn.to/1sB98Iy . And that's why we released #Halo4ForwardUntoDawn plus some other very exciting
@Golly_Gotha new films and shows that are currently exclusively available on VOD and online.
@Golly_Gotha But back to my main complaint. If Sony and Kaze don't bother telling me that they have anime airing on the channel and when
@Golly_Gotha I cannot do anything to help them promote it. If they can get their act together we will promote the shiznit out of it.
@Golly_Gotha I promise. We don't care of its a title we distribute or if its a Studio Ghibli or Fox, or Warner Bros or anyone else.
@Golly_Gotha Letting you guys (The Audience) know you can access amazing anime content on TV, VOD or online via reputable platforms is an
@Golly_Gotha obligation we are happy to meet because it increases awareness, restricts piracy and hopefully strengthens the business overall
@Golly_Gotha Golly! I do not personally have time to chase Sony for their TV schedule. I hope they are reading this. All they have to do
@Golly_Gotha is send @JeremyG__ a schedule for the next month or two and we can then put tweets and posts into our calender.
@Golly_Gotha You have to keep in mind that these year alone Manga is releasing over 85 new titles and 137 SKUs! With a team of 2!
@Golly_Gotha There's no way in Hell myself of @ajhewson have time to chase up @sonytvuk to get their schedules. No way Jose. >Jerome
@Golly_Gotha BTW. With TVRs in the thousands I am afraid that Sony's TV anime broadcast while a good thing will not massively impact
@Golly_Gotha the UK audience share significantly.
@Golly_Gotha Hopefully someone at Sony reads our Twitter feed, but I am not prepared to chase them. It's no my responsibility and is not
@Golly_Gotha a priority for me. I hope that explains our position. It's not that I don't care, but I don't have time to push people...
@Golly_Gotha to use our help to promote their activities. This whole exchange has really ruffled my feathers. I don't think people
@Golly_Gotha understand what a massive job running MangaUK is.

I may have missed some parts as web Twitter is worthless for following conversations, but I think it's still interesting to see how disconnected the UK industry is right now; Manga UK is promoting Netflix shows but not its own and nobody is communicating with one another, not even the companies with tight links. And they still obviously see streaming (and television) as a competitor on some level even though they're now coming around to the idea of experimenting.

I really feel as though this is going to be the last generation where local distributors have any power at all if they can't come up with answers to some of the problems that they're facing in the transition to a digital era. Manga UK only having two people working on their releases is obviously a very real hurdle, so what can be done to streamline the horrendous mess that the digital side of the UK industry is in right now with limited manpower (without simply passing the buck to similarly understaffed teams at other UK companies)? It's very interesting.

R