Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictions

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Bacialy as above with added points that Manga's PR's a complete mess.

If it spent any where near as much time as it has with Ashen's Movie as it did it's own product it'd be King Glavatron everlasting of UK Anime.

I didn't want to make this point myself as it felt harsh (and good on them for championing it) - but it's true - it definitely feels like much more promo effort has been made for Ashens than most recent anime releases.

Ashens has got a much bigger fan base than most anime. He's gets something like 7 figure views on Youtube for his reviews, the original version of the movie got close to a million. That's a lot more in the way of potential BD and DVD sales than for even the hottest anime. If I was Manga, I'd be pushing Ashens ahead of the latest moeblob otaku fodder.

And also anything that's from Japan, apparently.

If Manga put this much (or indeed much of any) effort into Attack on Titan we'd be set for life.

Ashens is a Manga product, at least according to the Manga logo on the disc, although it's distributed by Anchor Bay.

Huh, I thought it was Manga just blowing smoke up AB's backend but if that's the case then that's even worse.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

The number of people who genuinely care about watching anime (rather than generically watching anything that fills up their free time), but exclusively buy UK releases from high street stores, must be minuscule at this point and those are the only people I see being fatally affected.

We perhaps get a skewed version of things here, but there'll still be far more buyers of UK releases in the UK than there are fans who import. I don't see where they purchase the UK release from as being an important factor. Even if you buy online there are still import fees to consider if you're not buying from the UK, which puts people off. It puts me off now, especially since the limit went down to £15. If you can get a nicer copy for the same price from the US great, not so great if it ends up costing you an extra £8 plus 20%.

Personally, I'd have little against us being amalgamated into either the EU or North American markets but the EU market is still pretty fragmented country by country.

Yes, I agree people still buy from the UK for convenience and price. But you are talking about people who would be capable of adapting, if they wanted to, whereas people who (for whatever reason) only buy from the high street would be out of luck. I would consider the move to a marginally less convenient and slightly more expensive method of media acquisition to be well within the range of acceptable loss - I have little time for people who would be pushed completely out of the hobby by this sort of thing, the huge sense of entitlement amongst the modern "fan" is not something I would go out of my way to be concerned by.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

TBH if wakainm wasn't a complete **** crayon to use I'd just get the series off there and never pay any more mind to the release that aniplex arse around with.,

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Surely the fundamental points of any streaming service in this day and age should be:

a) deliver content when promised

b) be available on mobile devices/tablets

If these basics can't be delivered, it's very hard to get on board.

 

[ayase]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I have little time for people who would be pushed completely out of the hobby by this sort of thing, the huge sense of entitlement amongst the modern "fan" is not something I would go out of my way to be concerned by.

You say this, but if it actually leaves the industry more out of pocket than the current arrangement, it doesn't do anybody any good. I don't imagine many of the current buyers of the UK editions would switch to importing if our distributors were to cease to exist (especially if import charges remained in force) they'd just turn to illegal downloads. It doesn't really matter how "entitled" people are or aren't, what matters is the cash they contribute - It's surely better them giving Manga (who have purchased the licence from Japan) £20 for a series than contributing nothing at all?

 

[AntAce]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I have little time for people who would be pushed completely out of the hobby by this sort of thing, the huge sense of entitlement amongst the modern "fan" is not something I would go out of my way to be concerned by.

You say this, but if it actually leaves the industry more out of pocket than the current arrangement, it doesn't do anybody any good. I don't imagine many of the current buyers of the UK editions would switch to importing if our distributors were to cease to exist (especially if import charges remained in force) they'd just turn to illegal downloads. It doesn't really matter how "entitled" people are or aren't, what matters is the cash they contribute - It's surely better them giving Manga (who have purchased the license from Japan) £20 for a series than contributing nothing at all?

Ilmaestro, that's a very elitist attitude to have - that one's worth as a fan is denoted by what amounts to the size of their wallets. I think what Ayase says is spot on; Manga UK are just another choice for consumers to give their money. If a consumer wants a series with an artbox and shiny - but ultimately worthless - trinkets, at a higher cost, there are myriad distributors who provide such a service; Manga UK do not - they provide cheap releases for those who don't want/can't afford Aniplex/Funimation releases.

Choice to the consumer is all that matters and there is choice where we are currently at now. That said, Manga UK do still need to push digital releases more than they already do.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You misunderstand me, but only slightly. If you have a great interest in photography, but can't afford a set of DSLR camera lenses... I just don't care. You are clearly not needed for the photography industry to continue.

I would love to play IRL Vintage Magic the Gathering, but there is no way I can afford a Black Lotus and a set of Moxen. I do not ask for sympathy.

I would consider my approach to be pragmatic, rather than elitist. You can be a fan of anime without being able to afford it, I would never deny you the right, but there is no law saying that everything should be sold at a price that is affordable by everyone who wants to buy it.

Relevant to both ayase's post and yours, one of the great benefits of streaming services is that they allow people on a tight budget to legally watch and contribute what money they can. I would much rather see more effort made in those than in Manga's threadbare attempts to give people a product worthy of their cash.

It's surely better them giving Manga (who have purchased the licence from Japan) £20 for a series than contributing nothing at all?

I simply disagree, in my opinion Manga's devaluing of the product is bad for the long term health of the industry.

 

[ayase]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You misunderstand me, but only slightly. If you have a great interest in photography, but can't afford a set of DSLR camera lenses... I just don't care. You are clearly not needed for the photography industry to continue.

You wouldn't download a set of DSLR camera lenses.

Unless of course, you could.

 

[AntAce]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You misunderstand me, but only slightly. If you have a great interest in photography, but can't afford a set of DSLR camera lenses... I just don't care. You are clearly not needed for the photography industry to continue.

I would love to play IRL Vintage Magic the Gathering, but there is no way I can afford a Black Lotus and a set of Moxen. I do not ask for sympathy.

I would consider my approach to be pragmatic, rather than elitist. You can be a fan of anime without being able to afford it, I would never deny you the right, but there is no law saying that everything should be sold at a price that is affordable by everyone who wants to buy it.

Relevant to both ayase's post and yours, one of the great benefits of streaming services is that they allow people on a tight budget to legally watch and contribute what money they can. I would much rather see more effort made in those than in Manga's threadbare attempts to give people a product worthy of their cash.

But it's not about giving people sympathy - it's about giving consumers choice. Your photography example is perfect for showing choice in action - an amateur photographer might not be able to afford the latest and greatest DSLR lenses, but there are cheaper ones on the market they can afford. The very fact cheaper alternatives exist is indicative that - contrary to your claim - less well-off photographers are a valuable source of income to the photography industry.

It's surely better them giving Manga (who have purchased the licence from Japan) £20 for a series than contributing nothing at all?

I simply disagree, in my opinion Manga's devaluing of the product is bad for the long term health of the industry.

To which industry do you refer here? If it's the Japanese side (production), I've always read that the industry relied predominately on hardcore, Japanese otaku buying DVDs/BDs and merchandise?

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

But it's not about giving people sympathy - it's about giving consumers choice. Your photography example is perfect for showing choice in action - an amateur photographer might not be able to afford the latest and greatest DSLR lenses, but there are cheaper ones on the market they can afford. The very fact cheaper alternatives exist is indicative that - contrary to your claim - less well-off photographers are a valuable source of income to the photography industry.

With anime though, there are not cheaper shows on the market. There are the same shows, being devalued by companies trying to somehow stay alive for a little longer.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Is Manga really devaluing the product though? What dictates the price a DVD set 'should' be?

Are the $100 prices Aniplex sets for some of its US releases what we should be paying over here too? I think it's worth remembering that while Manga is catering to a niche market (anime buyers), it also has to fit within the wider remit of DVD releases.

In the UK, box set culture and general DVD pricing dictates that a box set should generally fall within the £20 - £40 mark. So if you price over that, you instantly create a sense of 'ohh, bit expensive!' among more casual buyers.

 

[GolGotha]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I believe they did, along with a lot of other companies.

When Anime first hit the UK market, a VHS was £15 - £20 each in stores like Forbidden Planet. Sometimes you could find a few titles in the £10 bargain bin.

Singles took over and they were a similar price, but for double the episodes. Happy days!
Eventually a complete box set would be produced, which was a god send as they took up less room, but the gap between the last single and the box-set got shorter and shorter, so people waited.

Then the box-set prices got lower and more people waited. Sales declined and series were left unfinished.

Now, people complain if a series comes in parts or if the complete season is over £15.

So yes, I feel that low prices did contribute to the lack of sales and incomplete series and set up the consumer to always expect bargain bin prices, no matter the quality or extras.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Some of the lowest priced shows have been Manga's biggest sellers.

Look at how well Code Geass and High School of the Dead did last year? They represented excellent value for money and both went on to sell loads.

And Origin is regularly one of their biggest sellers too as it's usually only about 3 quid on Amazon.

Whereas look at Tiger & Bunny, which many say heavily under-performed because it was split over pricey volumes.

 

[GolGotha]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I bought Tokyo Godfathers on Amazon for £4 including shipping, yet that only sold a few hundred copies.

When it comes to titles like this, where you can be assured that due to the nature/director of it it will only sell a small amount of copies, surely it would be best to price it higher? The low price obviously didn't help much with attracting the more casual fans....

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

But without the means to watch shows on Netflix as the US has (Thus making Aniplex's model not insane like Bandai Visuals or Voyager Entertainment (Yamato 2199) ) you can't up the price on the box-sets such that those who want to underscore/bold buy the show from their experience of watching the show on Netflix (or CR, but let's face it, Netflix is an option on TV's, nevermind set top boxes, these days) so we find ourselves at the impass again;

Manga can't re-value their product because they've trained their customer base into thinking that boxsets are the only way and customers (for the most part) are only willing to take that to the current low value of boxsets and any increce in cost will require Manga to nut up and take the hit from more casual people watching Titan, Madoka or Sword Art on Netflix and thinking "Yes, that's enough" and it's about as clear as day that Manga would rather sink than do that.

Manga have the opportunity to fix the mistake they made (Or failure, depending on how you see it) with Television with Netflix / CR / iTunes / Amazon VOD / Wakiam DTO etc etc but it will take balls to do so and I don't think they have it.

You wouldn't download a set of DSLR camera lenses.

Fun you! I Would if I could!

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Look at how well Code Geass and High School of the Dead did last year? They represented excellent value for money and both went on to sell loads.

I'd be tempted to say you have picked two shows likely to sell well at "any" price.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

But in the case of Code Geass, it's arguable the Kaze reprit did far better for itself than Beez and the dumb flipper case ever did.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Price point helps a title sell in the long term too (which probably what the likes of Manga UK care about more). There'll always be the hardcore (us lot) that'll buy in week one even if something is pretty pricey, but shows like Code Geass - especially if they're priced cheaply - could easily keep selling an extra thousand or two copies every year at a sub-20 quid price. It's an easy off-the-cuff purchase decision to make.

 

[Invisible Crane]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

But in the case of Code Geass, it's arguable the Kaze reprit did far better for itself than Beez and the dumb flipper case ever did.

Even despite their reputation of screwing up just about every release they've ever put out?

 

[Peachy]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I would believe that Code Geass did better for KAZE than Beez due to the amount of people they reach via MangaUK's social media. I don't think Code Geass was a different price than the usual till recently where we've seen big price drops for it on Amazon. More people knew about the release, so more sales.

Its a different subject really but if MVM released a title like HOTD with similar pricing to Manga's, I have no doubt it wouldn't of been as big of a success, MVM are lacking in the promotional side when it comes to their titles, which I 100% believe effects how much they sell. If they just threw up a condensed picture of their "to be released this month" titles at the start of each month then posted with an image & link of said title when it came to release date....sigh ...but that's an irrelevant to the discussion gripe I have so eh.

Price helps the more casual fans but it also depends on how big a show is, the art work, the title, etc
Didn't Manga recently say that TWGOK was an awful seller? That sells for 10-15 quid and they're complete series collections so if price makes sales then that should've been a big seller but it wasn't because it doesn't really appeal to casual fans.

I've practically just wrote a load of mambo jumbo containing different thoughts ..I am sorry ..ha.