Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictions

[GolGotha]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Haha, no worries. I'm sure someone else could of done a better job of 'harassing' them though...

A few comments I made that were left out:

@MangaUK I'm glad to hear you are willing to promote it. Although, I hope you won't wait for them to 'get their act together' and instead...
@MangaUK confront them about it. I hope this channel enables anime to grow in the UK even more, in views and DVD/Blu-Ray Sales.
@MangaUK I'm fully aware of this. Which I why I spent 30 seconds of my own time emailing them for you. Hopefully you'll get a response soon.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I have never once looked at one of AoA's gorgeous product shots and thought to myself, "Wait, I could wait six months and get a barebones UK release for a fraction of the price!". It's a different market so I don't see why it would upset anyone.

I wish I'd looked at Bakemonogatari's product shot and thought that. The UK version is a fraction of the price AND includes the character commentaries. All I'd have missed out on is a "deluxe" booklet and a box no better than the ones Funimation crap out (which is at least better than the card ones AoA have the audacity to use for their so-called premium editions). Oh, and let's not forget the blinking subtitles. Never again.

But yeah, generally speaking we're talking different markets. I see no reason why they can't happily co-exist.

 

[Shiroi Hane]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You say it's a "win win situation for both parties" but you're forgetting an important third party - the local distributor of the series. In the example you gave, Kazé (as we all know what happened to the K-ON! season one blu-ray, so it's not like you're buying a direct competitor in that sense - seemingly, Japan would have let MangaUK do it, but they didn't want to). While I personally don't object to giving Kazé the middle finger, on a larger scale, it isn't a healthy situation at all. The more local distributors get shunned for one reason or another, the more niche anime is ultimately going to become.

I mean, it's no wonder that MangaUK's release of Puella Magi Madoka Magica flopped - while an amazing series, it didn't have widespread appeal and to make it worse, Aniplex of America offered absolutely amazing collectors editions that were region free, while all MangaUK could do was release a barebones set (admittedly, they were allowed to do a complete collection...but compare that to soundtrack CDs, booklets, art cards etc).

Japan are still licensing their products out for overseas distribution - increasingly before a Japanese home video release even occurs. If I was an anime licensor who put forward tens of thousands of pounds towards the license of a series or movie, only for the company I bought the license from to release a version that can be played in the target region of my release and be flashier than anything I'd be allowed to release, I'd be pissed and feel like the Japanese licensor simply don't respect the company I represent.
Sure, there's the argument that local distributors should be doing more to offer a better local product to discourage such important, but Japan isn't allowing that at the moment in case the Japanese choose to import our local releases.

Reminds me of something:
"Fast forward to June, and suddenly Macross Plus is released in Japan as a region-free blu-ray with English sub and dub. Great news for you if you want to drop £70 on it. But why on earth would a British distributor buy the rights, when they already know a substantial number of customers will have already bought it direct from Japan? The anime companies are now calling our bluffs. We said grey importing wasn’t worth worrying about. Okay, they’ve said, how do you feel about grey exporting…?"
http://schoolgirlmilkycrisis.com/2013/0 ... exporting/

I remember hearing of how Kodansha once published editions of the Love Hina manga that featured both Japanese and English text, as a kind of special edition intended to help teach Japanese people English. Tokyopop however, noticed that a lot of fans realised that it was cheaper to import the Japanese bilingual edition, so as they owned the English language rights to the manga, they were able to send Kodansha a C&D letter and they obliged. So who knows what an anime licensor might say (or be forced to do, depending on the terms of particular contracts)?

Oh, is that why the Chobits bilinguals stopped after only two volumes? I had those and the first half of CCS.
They were cheaper, on better paper and had better print quality than Tokyopop's and had the bonus of the original Japanese text so it was a shame they were never finished.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You say it's a "win win situation for both parties" but you're forgetting an important third party - the local distributor of the series.

No, what has actually happened here is that you have been conned into believing that the local distributor is an "important" third party.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You say it's a "win win situation for both parties" but you're forgetting an important third party - the local distributor of the series.

No, what has actually happened here is that you have been conned into believing that the local distributor is an "important" third party.

Well, they kind of are - without Manga UK, for example, we'd be completely at the whim of the Japanese companies as to whether titles came out here. If they thought 'hey, the UK market is tiny, we won't bother' - we'd be totally at their mercy, and nothing would come out.

Manga are essentially our voice to the licensors - and while the situation might not be perfect - without them things would probably be a heck of a lot worse.

Of course, this situation may change as the market becomes more digitally orientated and companies rely less on the creation of actual physical product. If no-one's buying physical product and Manga UK don't get more heavily into the digital sphere, one could argue that the need for them is lessened if the Japanese companies then started licensing direct with the likes of Netflix and iTunes for UK digital releases (not 100% sure how the process works).

 

[Rui]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

To say that things would be a lot worse without Manga UK is a valid perspective for some people (and for the people working at Manga UK, of course!) but as global distribution changes I think it's fair to question whether we're really better off this way even now. Without some major changes, the companies distributing stacks of PAL DVDs to an ever-shrinking audience of loyal collectors are becoming less relevant by the second.

To use an example, Jerome once tweeted that he views importers and illegal downloaders as being the same. When it comes to Manga UK's bottom lines, of course they are; neither is contributing even a penny to Jerome's salary (especially as Manga UK haven't yet jumped on board with streaming and monetising people who don't buy here in other ways). But at the same time it's utterly ridiculous to view both groups as being the same when you take a more general view; both are potential customers who aren't being won over by Manga UK for one reason or another, but while one is still spending money on anime, the other isn't contributing to the anime production process at all.

Since the Manga UK of today can't function without the Japanese and US industries you'd think they'd understand this too.

This is just my opinion, and I completely understand why people would buy locally if they want to pick up a bargain as there are some crazy deals out there, but I would go as far as to say that if you don't need to buy locally and view the bigger picture, importing often feels more productive than buying UK editions.

- If you buy a Japanese edition, you're getting one of the best possible versions of the show and directly supporting the people who made it without paying a middleman in the UK (even though the sale won't be counted for Oricon rankings any more - grrr). The Japanese sales figures directly affect whether the show is considered successful and whether similar titles will ever be made.

- If you buy a US edition, you're getting it faster and contributing to the companies who commission dubs and special editions. In addition to affecting the quality of the release, the US sales figures dictate whether sequels and similar shows are licensed (and dubbed), which has a direct effect on whether they're ever picked up in the UK because Manga UK and MVM rely on the US for materials.

- If you buy an Australian edition, you're supporting region B and probably, again, probably getting it faster than the US. The UK's future Blu-ray releases rely upon the Australian side even now, so by importing from Australia you're still helping the UK (ironically).

- If you buy UK, you're supporting a niche industry which repackages foreign releases and resells them with a BBFC logo. So you're supporting the BBFC, and some people who are paid to repackage things other people made. You're also supporting the local distribution chain, which is fantastic if you are lucky enough to live near a shop which sells anime and no use whatsoever if you don't - ordering from Amazon US is no less convenient than ordering from Amazon UK, after all. As anime isn't currently broadcast on TV and very little is made available by UK streaming companies, the value of having a local industry isn't looking as clear as it has been in the past.

This isn't a rigid list; Andrew's involvement shows that the UK can start its own projects these days, and indeed Manga UK used to commission content itself instead of rereleasing overseas content here. There are also cases where the region B discs are a joint venture by Australia and the UK, so those people who aren't interested in playing region A discs are right to choose to support the people who are working to supply region B discs.

(Of course, if the region B industry disappeared there'd be no need to lock region A discs to region A in the first place; the local distributors definitely don't have our best interests in mind when they ask region A distributors to lock us out, sign exclusivity deals with streaming partners and ask Kodansha to stop producing beautiful bilingual manga. They're only thinking of their own sales figures when they make these anti-competitive requests and it staggers me that people are happy to accept them. But I digress.)

Ultimately, if either of the two big industries in region A collapses we're all screwed and the UK anime industry will end up as nothing more than rereleases of Dragonball Z from now to eternity. If region B collapses, a comparatively small number of people are affected as the places making the anime (and the English dubs) are still fully functional. Ideally both will continue, of course, but if I'm voting with my wallet I feel as though my vote generally has more power overseas. And that will remain my perspective as long as the UK distributors are functioning in this passive capacity. They're helping some UK fans, but they aren't helping me.

R

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Bacialy as above with added points that Manga's PR's a complete mess.

If it spent any where near as much time as it has with Ashen's Movie as it did it's own product it'd be King Glavatron everlasting of UK Anime.

 

[Just Passing Through]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Bacialy as above with added points that Manga's PR's a complete mess.

If it spent any where near as much time as it has with Ashen's Movie as it did it's own product it'd be King Glavatron everlasting of UK Anime.

Ashens is a Manga product, at least according to the Manga logo on the disc, although it's distributed by Anchor Bay.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Bacialy as above with added points that Manga's PR's a complete mess.

If it spent any where near as much time as it has with Ashen's Movie as it did it's own product it'd be King Glavatron everlasting of UK Anime.

I didn't want to make this point myself as it felt harsh (and good on them for championing it) - but it's true - it definitely feels like much more promo effort has been made for Ashens than most recent anime releases.

 

[Just Passing Through]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Bacialy as above with added points that Manga's PR's a complete mess.

If it spent any where near as much time as it has with Ashen's Movie as it did it's own product it'd be King Glavatron everlasting of UK Anime.

I didn't want to make this point myself as it felt harsh (and good on them for championing it) - but it's true - it definitely feels like much more promo effort has been made for Ashens than most recent anime releases.

Ashens has got a much bigger fan base than most anime. He's gets something like 7 figure views on Youtube for his reviews, the original version of the movie got close to a million. That's a lot more in the way of potential BD and DVD sales than for even the hottest anime. If I was Manga, I'd be pushing Ashens ahead of the latest moeblob otaku fodder.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the heck Ashens is?

 

[Just Passing Through]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the heck Ashens is?

I didn't have the slightest idea until I got the check disc. A whole online community has built up around his Youtube channel that I wasn't aware of. I guess I'm just old fashioned, expecting my entertainment to be on TV or something like that.

 

[jonno394]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

Watched the trailer for Ashens and it didnt do anything for me, but each to their own. However, it would be nice if they pushed their bread and butter (anime) to the same extent.

RE:Rui's comments, he's bang on.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

*Looks up Ashens*
Yeah, this erm...doesn't look great.
*Has Warwick Davis*
Bloody hell, he'll do anything now, won't he?

 

[AntAce]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

*Looks up Ashens*
Yeah, this erm...doesn't look great.
*Has Warwick Davis*
Bloody hell, he'll do anything now, won't he?

If you look up The Multiverse YouTube channel, you'll find a lot of other content Warwick Davis has particpated in and, indeed, been responsible for. It's not a case of him doing this because he's strapped for cash, it's a case of him doing this stuff because he genuinely loves it. Movies such as Ashens and The Quest for the Game Child represent creative, professionally produced content that normally wouldn't get a chance of competing with large budget - or even smaller budget - affairs, because of their niche subject matter. That this is a viable method of writing/producing movies, shorts, ect. is fantastic for people who wish to enter the film industry, but perhaps have ideas and stories that don't necessarily have mass market appeal. The fact Ashens and The Quest for the Game Child received 50% of its budget via crowdfunding says a lot.

For the record, Ashens and The Quest for the Game Child is a good film. Saying that, I am part of the intended audience (and an aspiring screewriter, who loves this kind of stuff), so I'm a little biased.

 

[VoxPhantom]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I used to watch all of Ashens' stuff, but got a bit turned off when he started on the movie project - it just didn't appeal to me at all. The last of his videos that I really enjoyed was his brilliant cynical play-along of Minecraft with "Guru" Larry Bundy.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

You say it's a "win win situation for both parties" but you're forgetting an important third party - the local distributor of the series.

No, what has actually happened here is that you have been conned into believing that the local distributor is an "important" third party.

Well, they kind of are - without Manga UK, for example, we'd be completely at the whim of the Japanese companies as to whether titles came out here.

But imagine if this meant that Us companies who got the English language licence just sold their releases here. Or if European releases were sold here with English subtitles.

I see this as the inevitable future for the UK anyway (at the very least, being amalgamated into a Europe-wide "industry") precisely because the UK *is* too small a market to bother with.

 

[Lutga]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

The Europe wide option definitely seems like a more likely option.

But again, we're completely at the whim of companies higher up the chain. We just have to hope they still see value in the UK market.

 

[ilmaestro]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

I guess to some degree you can't get away from that, but I'm really not even sure what the calamitous fallout would be from an end result of no official UK releases. The number of people who genuinely care about watching anime (rather than generically watching anything that fills up their free time), but exclusively buy UK releases from high street stores, must be minuscule at this point and those are the only people I see being fatally affected.

 

[ayase]

Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio

The number of people who genuinely care about watching anime (rather than generically watching anything that fills up their free time), but exclusively buy UK releases from high street stores, must be minuscule at this point and those are the only people I see being fatally affected.

We perhaps get a skewed version of things here, but there'll still be far more buyers of UK releases in the UK than there are fans who import. I don't see where they purchase the UK release from as being an important factor. Even if you buy online there are still import fees to consider if you're not buying from the UK, which puts people off. It puts me off now, especially since the limit went down to £15. If you can get a nicer copy for the same price from the US great, not so great if it ends up costing you an extra £8 plus 20%.

Personally, I'd have little against us being amalgamated into either the EU or North American markets but the EU market is still pretty fragmented country by country.