ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
I'd be for it if only to watch Jerome melt down sum'ore.
I'd be for it if only to watch Jerome melt down sum'ore.
Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictions
- Thread starter Joshawott
- Start date
Lutga
Mad Scientist
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
The thing that frustrates me most about AoT isn't so much the wait on the UK release, but the fact that the release is probably going to come and go - do decent-ish sales - and then that'll be it. Anime's biggest, most 'mainstream' hit for years pretty much done and dusted.
As others have pointed out, if ever we were going to have a 'breakthrough' - it'd be with a show like AoT.
If Game of Thrones can make fantasy 'work' for a regular TV-binge audience, then anime needs something like that too. All it'd take is say someone like Sky or BBC 4 picking it up and running it alongside some articles in places like the Guardian for it to start getting some real traction. A proper 'buzz' show.
Of course, that'll never happen - but when shows like The Bridge show that subbed content can work for the mainstream on UK telly, it's frustrating that anime isn't given the same chance.
The thing that frustrates me most about AoT isn't so much the wait on the UK release, but the fact that the release is probably going to come and go - do decent-ish sales - and then that'll be it. Anime's biggest, most 'mainstream' hit for years pretty much done and dusted.
As others have pointed out, if ever we were going to have a 'breakthrough' - it'd be with a show like AoT.
If Game of Thrones can make fantasy 'work' for a regular TV-binge audience, then anime needs something like that too. All it'd take is say someone like Sky or BBC 4 picking it up and running it alongside some articles in places like the Guardian for it to start getting some real traction. A proper 'buzz' show.
Of course, that'll never happen - but when shows like The Bridge show that subbed content can work for the mainstream on UK telly, it's frustrating that anime isn't given the same chance.
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Even then certain companies have a poor track record with second seasons. If AoT ends up being rushed out with no love when its eventual sequel arrives here - because the first failed to set the world on fire - it would be a dreadful shame.
Lutga raises a point that bothers me too so please forgive me taking some time during my lunchbreak to ramble a little more.
When an 'old school' kind of company like Nozomi acquires a show, they set up a microsite for it and promote it quite heavily, giving it a stream if physically possible and trying to drive awareness. Some of their ideas work, others don't, but if you ever feel the need to check out a series you've heard about you can generally find your way to information about the show, streaming details and product specifications together in one place with a little time on Google. They'll also run competitions on the microsites and share interviews or other production details so you really feel like you're part of the process. I've often visited the series sites created by Nozomi, NIS America, AoA and Funimation to check out their release information, and ended up buying their shows.
In the UK, I feel that the little guys like Anime Limited (and to a lesser extent MVM) manage to give each license a personal touch too. You can be reasonably confident that if you grumble about Gurren Lagann somewhere on the internet, Andrew will suddenly appear out of thin air and explain the production process in detail or get one of his team to produce a blog article showing off the box design. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I love being able to go to Anime Limited's website and find loads of relevant information there in one place without fiddling around with Twitter's flakey search feature to navigate past irrelevant chit-chat. They even have previews posted and streams so people don't have to blind buy or break the law. Manga UK are generally forthcoming about their decisions and Jeremy is a very nice bloke, but Manga UK simply don't seem to have any interest in modern forms of promotion on their site - just the sales message itself and some links to buy things.
Manga UK's entire message seems targeted at people who already follow Manga UK, not people who like a particular series. Manga UK have a lot of followers, but they are limiting themselves by only selling to the people who are already their customers (and part of certain demographics, at that), which goes back to HdE's point about allowing your audience to expand. You can't find most of their comments with a Google search because it's all buried in all of the other advertising and rants and irrelevant retweets on Twitter/Facebook, and their website is just a blog/shop.
Is the AoT box coming out in the UK cardstock or chipboard? I can't tell from the rendered version on the Amazon listing; I assume they'd say if it was chipboard so I guess it must be a cheap card sleeve (with the ugly blue banner over the top which is designed to help them sell, not for the benefit of the actual collectors). Where's the official blog post explaining why the UK version is inferior to the US one (DVD vs BD) and justifying it without loaded comments about how the UK fans who import are evil? Where on earth is a video ad or stream? Why isn't Attack On Titan on their homepage's landing page anywhere in the first place? Do they even care that they licensed it? Do they want people to know? Why is my UK-based AoT-liking friend getting his information from me, an importer? The distributor is relying on him blindly searching Amazon for details or following convention news reports instead of getting the word out there themselves.
Manga UK is almost too efficient now. They have everything down to a slick production process (except getting someone to actually watch their content to check for production problems...) but they don't really seem to experiment and push the shows as much as they could. It feels as though there's no love, and then once the first week sales are out of the way everything gets dumped off onto 'catalogue title' status and abandoned to sell itself with no chance of a sudden revival. I understand that most shows will sell most copies in their first few days of sale because that's how everything works in this industry, but FUNimation, Sentai, Nozomi, NISA and AoA are all doing things in a different way and getting information about their catalogue shows out there just in case some meme or positive press leads to a spike in awareness. With Manga UK you have to be riding the self-generated hype train on their social media feeds at the right time (which is some arbitrary period after the actual Japanese release) or each series passes by silently, condemned to poor sales figures forever.
To justify that last point, there is a certain series (it happens to be a favourite of mine
) which FUNimation officially stated had sold poorly at first until it was retargeted to a female audience, at which point it took off and sold normally over in the US. That series came to the UK too and sold horribly here. It was never retargeted and its sequel was made DVD-only with missing video content, condemning it to being an eternal failure in the UK that I can't recommend to anyone. The US version has a stream and regularly pops up in FUNimation's promotional output; the UK had its first week push and nothing was ever said about it again. It's so disappointing as a fan to watch the local distributor leave your favourite shows to die instead of showing them some love and trying to build a market for them. I just don't feel they come across as liking the anime they're trying to sell, sometimes.
Of course, the final problem I have with Manga UK is that in spite of all of their shortcomings, whenever things go wrong it's always someone else's fault. The Japanese licensors are a convenient choice of villain since they can't defend themselves directly and all of the fans rush to support poor, innocent Manga UK whenever they post these insults about the people who make the products they need in order to survive as a company. If they spent as much time improving their own strategies as they do demonising their own business partners, perhaps they'd see results?
R
Even then certain companies have a poor track record with second seasons. If AoT ends up being rushed out with no love when its eventual sequel arrives here - because the first failed to set the world on fire - it would be a dreadful shame.
Lutga raises a point that bothers me too so please forgive me taking some time during my lunchbreak to ramble a little more.
When an 'old school' kind of company like Nozomi acquires a show, they set up a microsite for it and promote it quite heavily, giving it a stream if physically possible and trying to drive awareness. Some of their ideas work, others don't, but if you ever feel the need to check out a series you've heard about you can generally find your way to information about the show, streaming details and product specifications together in one place with a little time on Google. They'll also run competitions on the microsites and share interviews or other production details so you really feel like you're part of the process. I've often visited the series sites created by Nozomi, NIS America, AoA and Funimation to check out their release information, and ended up buying their shows.
In the UK, I feel that the little guys like Anime Limited (and to a lesser extent MVM) manage to give each license a personal touch too. You can be reasonably confident that if you grumble about Gurren Lagann somewhere on the internet, Andrew will suddenly appear out of thin air and explain the production process in detail or get one of his team to produce a blog article showing off the box design. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I love being able to go to Anime Limited's website and find loads of relevant information there in one place without fiddling around with Twitter's flakey search feature to navigate past irrelevant chit-chat. They even have previews posted and streams so people don't have to blind buy or break the law. Manga UK are generally forthcoming about their decisions and Jeremy is a very nice bloke, but Manga UK simply don't seem to have any interest in modern forms of promotion on their site - just the sales message itself and some links to buy things.
Manga UK's entire message seems targeted at people who already follow Manga UK, not people who like a particular series. Manga UK have a lot of followers, but they are limiting themselves by only selling to the people who are already their customers (and part of certain demographics, at that), which goes back to HdE's point about allowing your audience to expand. You can't find most of their comments with a Google search because it's all buried in all of the other advertising and rants and irrelevant retweets on Twitter/Facebook, and their website is just a blog/shop.
Is the AoT box coming out in the UK cardstock or chipboard? I can't tell from the rendered version on the Amazon listing; I assume they'd say if it was chipboard so I guess it must be a cheap card sleeve (with the ugly blue banner over the top which is designed to help them sell, not for the benefit of the actual collectors). Where's the official blog post explaining why the UK version is inferior to the US one (DVD vs BD) and justifying it without loaded comments about how the UK fans who import are evil? Where on earth is a video ad or stream? Why isn't Attack On Titan on their homepage's landing page anywhere in the first place? Do they even care that they licensed it? Do they want people to know? Why is my UK-based AoT-liking friend getting his information from me, an importer? The distributor is relying on him blindly searching Amazon for details or following convention news reports instead of getting the word out there themselves.
Manga UK is almost too efficient now. They have everything down to a slick production process (except getting someone to actually watch their content to check for production problems...) but they don't really seem to experiment and push the shows as much as they could. It feels as though there's no love, and then once the first week sales are out of the way everything gets dumped off onto 'catalogue title' status and abandoned to sell itself with no chance of a sudden revival. I understand that most shows will sell most copies in their first few days of sale because that's how everything works in this industry, but FUNimation, Sentai, Nozomi, NISA and AoA are all doing things in a different way and getting information about their catalogue shows out there just in case some meme or positive press leads to a spike in awareness. With Manga UK you have to be riding the self-generated hype train on their social media feeds at the right time (which is some arbitrary period after the actual Japanese release) or each series passes by silently, condemned to poor sales figures forever.
To justify that last point, there is a certain series (it happens to be a favourite of mine
) which FUNimation officially stated had sold poorly at first until it was retargeted to a female audience, at which point it took off and sold normally over in the US. That series came to the UK too and sold horribly here. It was never retargeted and its sequel was made DVD-only with missing video content, condemning it to being an eternal failure in the UK that I can't recommend to anyone. The US version has a stream and regularly pops up in FUNimation's promotional output; the UK had its first week push and nothing was ever said about it again. It's so disappointing as a fan to watch the local distributor leave your favourite shows to die instead of showing them some love and trying to build a market for them. I just don't feel they come across as liking the anime they're trying to sell, sometimes.Of course, the final problem I have with Manga UK is that in spite of all of their shortcomings, whenever things go wrong it's always someone else's fault. The Japanese licensors are a convenient choice of villain since they can't defend themselves directly and all of the fans rush to support poor, innocent Manga UK whenever they post these insults about the people who make the products they need in order to survive as a company. If they spent as much time improving their own strategies as they do demonising their own business partners, perhaps they'd see results?
R
VoxPhantom
Stand User
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Well said, Rui.
On the issue of shows almost immediately becoming catalogue titles, I remember tweeting Jerome asking about some kind of feature for older licenses, something along the lines of MVM's DOTW. All I got in response was that HMV sales do the job of promoting the catalogue titles. Not very reassuring!
Well said, Rui.
On the issue of shows almost immediately becoming catalogue titles, I remember tweeting Jerome asking about some kind of feature for older licenses, something along the lines of MVM's DOTW. All I got in response was that HMV sales do the job of promoting the catalogue titles. Not very reassuring!
This is one thing that really bugs me. Every license or release is treated in the same way. With all due respect to Jeremy, half the stuff that goes out on Facebook and Twitter feels like a copy/paste job, with just the series title and synopsis changing. There doesn't seem to be any passion towards individual releases.Rui said:
Lutga
Mad Scientist
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
For the record, I'm a big fan of what Manga UK do - and god knows, if we didn't have them, where would the UK anime market be?
As said above, they're got what they do down to a very slick art - and I don't blame them for that. They're a small company aiming for the best profit margins they can get. It'd be within the rights of any business to function like that. When most anime releases in this country sell less than 2000 copies each, you're basically aiming to make that margin on each via your real hardcore, loyal audience. Then maybe that'll be buoyed by bigger sales on titles like Akira and GITS.
But I think you're right, it feels like there's not much of a life for shows after the initial release window aside from fans hunting down when sales are on. And part of that comes from a massive catalogue. I mean, Manga are usually releasing two titles a week - so there's a *lot* of stuff out there to get. Every title needs its window in the spotlight.
But that's the state of anime in the UK at the moment - it is by its very definition a niche market. But as a fan, it's frustrating to realise just how *niche* that niche is.
For the record, I'm a big fan of what Manga UK do - and god knows, if we didn't have them, where would the UK anime market be?
As said above, they're got what they do down to a very slick art - and I don't blame them for that. They're a small company aiming for the best profit margins they can get. It'd be within the rights of any business to function like that. When most anime releases in this country sell less than 2000 copies each, you're basically aiming to make that margin on each via your real hardcore, loyal audience. Then maybe that'll be buoyed by bigger sales on titles like Akira and GITS.
But I think you're right, it feels like there's not much of a life for shows after the initial release window aside from fans hunting down when sales are on. And part of that comes from a massive catalogue. I mean, Manga are usually releasing two titles a week - so there's a *lot* of stuff out there to get. Every title needs its window in the spotlight.
But that's the state of anime in the UK at the moment - it is by its very definition a niche market. But as a fan, it's frustrating to realise just how *niche* that niche is.
Lutga
Mad Scientist
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
From a purely language-based point of view (ie. availability of English dub tracks), there's no reason why we shouldn't match the US. But obviously our market is much smaller, and the UK has had weird oddities (ie. releasing on a Monday instead of a Friday)
It's why I feel a move to digital is so important - as it could eliminate the issue of reverse importing and hence decrease the wait time.
ilmaestro said:
From a purely language-based point of view (ie. availability of English dub tracks), there's no reason why we shouldn't match the US. But obviously our market is much smaller, and the UK has had weird oddities (ie. releasing on a Monday instead of a Friday)
It's why I feel a move to digital is so important - as it could eliminate the issue of reverse importing and hence decrease the wait time.
HdE
Comic Book Guy
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Late looking back on this thread due to work commitments, but I wanted to specifically address Rui on a couple of points:
First up, Rui, I really like your recent posts here. I think you might *possibly* be taking my comments earlier as antagonistic, but they're really not meant that way. I'm just trying to bring the 'other perspective of Johnny Consumer' in here, as opposed to that of a die-hard fan. A bit like I've tried to with my reviews for the site in the past.
I like how you're basing your counter-arguments on firm logic, as well. But, I've got to say something back to this point:
And, frankly, I'm going to do that. Because, in my experience, Johnny Consumer is going to do that. My over-reaching point (I hope) is that the audience needs to be grown and nurtured. I don't really care HOW that happens. It just needs to happen.
RRP is going to be the first thing somebody curious about a product will check on a product if they're halfway of a mind to spend money on it. It's the figure that sticks in most people's minds when they're asked how much something costs. RRP is going to be how a seller advertises the asking price for something in their own advertising - it's a solid part of their 'first impression' on a potential customer. If it's attractive right off the bat, that's a boon.
Totally fine for you to have that opinion, as far as I'm concerned. And I agree that the break even point is going to dictate to price. Although, do be aware that "mainstream box sets cost £x so anime should cost £x too!", again, isn't what I said. It may indeed be faulty reasoning, but it's ABSOLUTELY the hurdle that needs to be overcome to sell to some new prospective fans. The question has to be asked, 'if our break even point demands that our asking price is so high as to be deemed 'too much' by some, is there something we can do about it?'
We can discuss specific points of how retail works, or the realities of cash-in-pocket versus what someone can actually afford. Or even all the many and valid reasons why it's difficult to sell anime cheaply. But that would all be missing the point I'm trying to make. There's such a thing as consumer prejudice. That's the thing that might make Johnny Consumer turn his nose up at Brand X (which could be your bottle of One-Cal Cola at the Kwik-E-Mart) in favour of Brand A (Mmm-hmm-hmm, it's always the real thing! Etc.) And the One-cal thing is a good analogy. Because there are folks who want The Real Thing and damn the expense. But are they the market for cola? Or just the market for The Real Thing? And how much crossover is there between the two?
Another part of that consumer prejudice is the attitude that says 'no way will I pay that!' And I've had enough conversations with people in the comics / pop-culture (for want of a better term) scene recently to know that this is becoming a pretty common attitude to anime, among the very group of consumers that it should be least difficult to sell it to.
For the record, I also believe that some of the ideas these more casual fans have are erroneous. I had to correct someone recently who'd been quoted a price for the Attack On Titan LE and went telling people that would be the regular price for the standard edition. Stuff like that doesn't help, and makes me wonder if release info is being posted clearly enough.
All of my sentiments in this thread come from the same place, though: Anime has to be accessible for new fans, on every level. And effort needs to be made to sell to those new fans, continually. It's even better if you can keep the existing fans sweet as well. Price point isn't the only way to do that, it shouldn't ever be the primary focus of marketing, but it's a big thing to get right.
Late looking back on this thread due to work commitments, but I wanted to specifically address Rui on a couple of points:
First up, Rui, I really like your recent posts here. I think you might *possibly* be taking my comments earlier as antagonistic, but they're really not meant that way. I'm just trying to bring the 'other perspective of Johnny Consumer' in here, as opposed to that of a die-hard fan. A bit like I've tried to with my reviews for the site in the past.
I like how you're basing your counter-arguments on firm logic, as well. But, I've got to say something back to this point:
You might want to check what I posted, because I didn't compare RRP with selling prices. I compared RRP with RRP, based on experience.Rui said:And please don't compare RRP and actual selling prices. The RRP of season one of the mainstream GoT on BD was around £50 on its own, more than I paid for even the most expensive volume of UC in terms of actual selling prices. Just because GoT is mega popular and available for less because it has alternate ways of making money doesn't mean you can cheat on the maths
And, frankly, I'm going to do that. Because, in my experience, Johnny Consumer is going to do that. My over-reaching point (I hope) is that the audience needs to be grown and nurtured. I don't really care HOW that happens. It just needs to happen.
RRP is going to be the first thing somebody curious about a product will check on a product if they're halfway of a mind to spend money on it. It's the figure that sticks in most people's minds when they're asked how much something costs. RRP is going to be how a seller advertises the asking price for something in their own advertising - it's a solid part of their 'first impression' on a potential customer. If it's attractive right off the bat, that's a boon.
Rui said:
Totally fine for you to have that opinion, as far as I'm concerned. And I agree that the break even point is going to dictate to price. Although, do be aware that "mainstream box sets cost £x so anime should cost £x too!", again, isn't what I said. It may indeed be faulty reasoning, but it's ABSOLUTELY the hurdle that needs to be overcome to sell to some new prospective fans. The question has to be asked, 'if our break even point demands that our asking price is so high as to be deemed 'too much' by some, is there something we can do about it?'
We can discuss specific points of how retail works, or the realities of cash-in-pocket versus what someone can actually afford. Or even all the many and valid reasons why it's difficult to sell anime cheaply. But that would all be missing the point I'm trying to make. There's such a thing as consumer prejudice. That's the thing that might make Johnny Consumer turn his nose up at Brand X (which could be your bottle of One-Cal Cola at the Kwik-E-Mart) in favour of Brand A (Mmm-hmm-hmm, it's always the real thing! Etc.) And the One-cal thing is a good analogy. Because there are folks who want The Real Thing and damn the expense. But are they the market for cola? Or just the market for The Real Thing? And how much crossover is there between the two?
Another part of that consumer prejudice is the attitude that says 'no way will I pay that!' And I've had enough conversations with people in the comics / pop-culture (for want of a better term) scene recently to know that this is becoming a pretty common attitude to anime, among the very group of consumers that it should be least difficult to sell it to.
For the record, I also believe that some of the ideas these more casual fans have are erroneous. I had to correct someone recently who'd been quoted a price for the Attack On Titan LE and went telling people that would be the regular price for the standard edition. Stuff like that doesn't help, and makes me wonder if release info is being posted clearly enough.
All of my sentiments in this thread come from the same place, though: Anime has to be accessible for new fans, on every level. And effort needs to be made to sell to those new fans, continually. It's even better if you can keep the existing fans sweet as well. Price point isn't the only way to do that, it shouldn't ever be the primary focus of marketing, but it's a big thing to get right.
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
I have a lot of things I'd like to say to Johnny Consumer but I don't mean to sound as aggressive towards you, HdE. I'm so frustrated with Manga UK that it's hard to keep cool!
The problem with this being a very niche hobby is that the companies simply don't have the flexibility to cater to Johnny Consumer's arbitrary whims in the way that a person selling their own homemade product can. A self-publishing writer/artist can play around with different models and find a way to make their labour of love into a hit much better than a production line trying to sell something on behalf of a foreign entity with minimum quantities and break even points baying at their door. If the UK release will sell 1,000 more copies priced down but destroy 1,000 sales in Japan as a result, there's less money in the pot for future productions and nothing is gained.
Johnny Consumer will compare the re-re-re-release of top-sellers like Game Of Thrones on Amazon with the first edition Japanese release of Gundam Unicorn and balk, yes, but the fact is that it's impossible for them to produce an OAV series without pricing it in a suitable way whereas season one of Game Of Thrones made its production, authoring and promotion money back ages ago in the process of singlehandedly revolutionising the public's perception of its genre. Even I like it and I don't tend to watch US TV shows. OAVs only exist because they are self-funding from their home video release, and fans often complain that there are so few released nowadays compared to the halcyon days of the past where ridiculously high quality OAV projects were everywhere. They want to have their cake and eat it. Game Of Thrones should be compared to DBZ, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon over here; it serves nobody if we don't try to educate Johnny Consumer about the different values things have. It's a little hard not to take it personally when people portray the fans who buy deluxe editions and support future releases as a bunch of ludicrously wealthy zealots with no common sense and a fetishistic relationship with packaging ^^;;
Weirdly Johnny Consumer seems more than ready to part with his cash when the quality message gets through, as evidenced by some of the more mainstream Kickstarters and the feverish passion gamers have for special editions. The massive devaluation of anime that has taken place in the UK over the last decade has now created a situation where nobody wants to pay more than a tenner for a series because they don't believe it has a higher value than that, utterly crippling any kind of innovation in the home video market. I think the need for a shift in strategy to cater to both the 'collectors' and the 'viewers' is more necessary now than it has ever been. Let Johnny Consumer gorge himself on 'free' anime on Netflix, Crunchyroll and the like alongside their favourite mainstream shows, and maybe 5% of those casual fans will get a spark for something more. And let the home video versions actually be decent. I'm not asking for Kara No Kyoukai style releases here, just releases with basic quality control, realistically sustainable pricing and customer-orientated design decisions (seriously, why are collectors' artboxes designed for the distributor's benefit instead of being proper artboxes like they are in almost every other country? Why do people buy artboxes covered in logos and promotional stuff instead of glorious illustrations?).
I also have a problem with Manga UK's 'low price, low quality' creed as it ends up being a false economy when I have to buy the same show again from overseas to get a version I don't find appalling. Manga UK's discs generally cost less than I can import for - impressive - but they're never better than the US release. At best, they're as good. Usually, they're worse. Since this is 2014, I don't want to buy something half-baked with my hard-earned cash when I probably watched it legally online already and overseas versions exist which do a better job. Legal streaming has empowered me as a customer. I make my purchasing decisions much earlier than I used to, and I can't be alone when the US companies are openly trying to take control of announcements and streaming to capture their customers' interest right from day one.
It means a lot to me that the smaller companies like Anime Limited, NIS America, MVM and even Media Blasters have the integrity to own up when something goes wrong and try to sort it out for the customer if there's any practical way to do so. Manga UK - supposedly the biggest and most successful company over here - have inexplicably been getting away with a "too bad!" response when they completely drop the ball on a release and don't bother checking for massive flaws before sending the stock out to cheat people out of their cash. I can't support them any more because of the lack of respect they have for anyone else in the process, whether it's their business partners, their titles, or their own paying customers.
I'm specifically venting at Manga UK because Jerome opened the debate by taking a shot at his suppliers in a similar way. I won't pretend I know the background to every single business decision that the folks at Manga UK make, but I know enough to understand that Jerome is (understandably) primarily concerned with his margins and the UK market. I'm writing as a former customer who now often buys from the Japanese market by choice, and I think Manga UK are blaming the wrong culprits for the problems they're encountering. There's only one UK anime company which is tempting me to take the plunge and buy a region B Blu-ray player. It isn't Manga UK.
Edit: weakened the passive-aggressive tone in the closing statement.
R
I have a lot of things I'd like to say to Johnny Consumer
but I don't mean to sound as aggressive towards you, HdE. I'm so frustrated with Manga UK that it's hard to keep cool!The problem with this being a very niche hobby is that the companies simply don't have the flexibility to cater to Johnny Consumer's arbitrary whims in the way that a person selling their own homemade product can. A self-publishing writer/artist can play around with different models and find a way to make their labour of love into a hit much better than a production line trying to sell something on behalf of a foreign entity with minimum quantities and break even points baying at their door. If the UK release will sell 1,000 more copies priced down but destroy 1,000 sales in Japan as a result, there's less money in the pot for future productions and nothing is gained.
Johnny Consumer will compare the re-re-re-release of top-sellers like Game Of Thrones on Amazon with the first edition Japanese release of Gundam Unicorn and balk, yes, but the fact is that it's impossible for them to produce an OAV series without pricing it in a suitable way whereas season one of Game Of Thrones made its production, authoring and promotion money back ages ago in the process of singlehandedly revolutionising the public's perception of its genre. Even I like it and I don't tend to watch US TV shows. OAVs only exist because they are self-funding from their home video release, and fans often complain that there are so few released nowadays compared to the halcyon days of the past where ridiculously high quality OAV projects were everywhere. They want to have their cake and eat it. Game Of Thrones should be compared to DBZ, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon over here; it serves nobody if we don't try to educate Johnny Consumer about the different values things have. It's a little hard not to take it personally when people portray the fans who buy deluxe editions and support future releases as a bunch of ludicrously wealthy zealots with no common sense and a fetishistic relationship with packaging ^^;;
Weirdly Johnny Consumer seems more than ready to part with his cash when the quality message gets through, as evidenced by some of the more mainstream Kickstarters and the feverish passion gamers have for special editions. The massive devaluation of anime that has taken place in the UK over the last decade has now created a situation where nobody wants to pay more than a tenner for a series because they don't believe it has a higher value than that, utterly crippling any kind of innovation in the home video market. I think the need for a shift in strategy to cater to both the 'collectors' and the 'viewers' is more necessary now than it has ever been. Let Johnny Consumer gorge himself on 'free' anime on Netflix, Crunchyroll and the like alongside their favourite mainstream shows, and maybe 5% of those casual fans will get a spark for something more. And let the home video versions actually be decent. I'm not asking for Kara No Kyoukai style releases here, just releases with basic quality control, realistically sustainable pricing and customer-orientated design decisions (seriously, why are collectors' artboxes designed for the distributor's benefit instead of being proper artboxes like they are in almost every other country? Why do people buy artboxes covered in logos and promotional stuff instead of glorious illustrations?).
I also have a problem with Manga UK's 'low price, low quality' creed as it ends up being a false economy when I have to buy the same show again from overseas to get a version I don't find appalling. Manga UK's discs generally cost less than I can import for - impressive - but they're never better than the US release. At best, they're as good. Usually, they're worse. Since this is 2014, I don't want to buy something half-baked with my hard-earned cash when I probably watched it legally online already and overseas versions exist which do a better job. Legal streaming has empowered me as a customer. I make my purchasing decisions much earlier than I used to, and I can't be alone when the US companies are openly trying to take control of announcements and streaming to capture their customers' interest right from day one.
It means a lot to me that the smaller companies like Anime Limited, NIS America, MVM and even Media Blasters have the integrity to own up when something goes wrong and try to sort it out for the customer if there's any practical way to do so. Manga UK - supposedly the biggest and most successful company over here - have inexplicably been getting away with a "too bad!" response when they completely drop the ball on a release and don't bother checking for massive flaws before sending the stock out to cheat people out of their cash. I can't support them any more because of the lack of respect they have for anyone else in the process, whether it's their business partners, their titles, or their own paying customers.
I'm specifically venting at Manga UK because Jerome opened the debate by taking a shot at his suppliers in a similar way. I won't pretend I know the background to every single business decision that the folks at Manga UK make, but I know enough to understand that Jerome is (understandably) primarily concerned with his margins and the UK market. I'm writing as a former customer who now often buys from the Japanese market by choice, and I think Manga UK are blaming the wrong culprits for the problems they're encountering. There's only one UK anime company which is tempting me to take the plunge and buy a region B Blu-ray player. It isn't Manga UK.
Edit: weakened the passive-aggressive tone in the closing statement.
R
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Well said, Rui. I don't actually care enough about the UK "anime industry" to expound Manga's failings so precisely, but if any rep happens to read this and has any sense, they'll take at least some of it to heart.
I think you let the paragraphs of emotion get a touch bitchy in that last line, though.
Well said, Rui. I don't actually care enough about the UK "anime industry" to expound Manga's failings so precisely, but if any rep happens to read this and has any sense, they'll take at least some of it to heart.
I think you let the paragraphs of emotion get a touch bitchy in that last line, though.
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Rui has a point. It's been clear for three months before the release date that the Manga release of Attack on Titan is inferior when it comes to disc content than Funimation's. That should be enough time to remedy the issue. Instead we get marketing spin about how it's a 'Collector's' Edition. As a result, people empowered to make a decision are already placing orders for the US release, or the AU release if they are in Region B lock land. It matters not to Manga that they lose those sales, as the empowered people are those who frequent forums like this, and read ahead of time. That's probably 1% of their customer base. It may not hit the wallet in the short term, but it's bad PR in the long term...
If I had been empowered with knowledge about importing and different versions 10 years ago, I would have imported Bandai's release of GITSSAC, rather than stick with Manga's. As it is, my recent significant anime purchases have included...
Madman's K-On! and K-On!! for Blu-ray
Funimation's Shiki for Blu-ray
Funimation's Spice and Wolf for Blu-ray
Funimation's Rideback for Blu-ray
Siren Visual's Penguindrum for Blu-ray and better authoring
Funimation's Cat Planet Cuties for better authored DVDs
Funimation's Princess Jellyfish for better authored DVDs
Aniplex's Baccano! for Blu-ray
Funimation's Trigun movie for better authored Blu-ray
that's a trend that reaches back all the way to Noein, Otogi Zoshi and Ouran High School Host Club...
Things are certainly a lot better now, with Manga releasing Blu-rays with most of their releases, and those Blu-rays merely being a reworking of US or AU discs, they very rarely author their own. But it's a sad state of affairs when any new Manga announcement instantly has me looking to other regions to see what they are doing with the title first.
Rui has a point. It's been clear for three months before the release date that the Manga release of Attack on Titan is inferior when it comes to disc content than Funimation's. That should be enough time to remedy the issue. Instead we get marketing spin about how it's a 'Collector's' Edition. As a result, people empowered to make a decision are already placing orders for the US release, or the AU release if they are in Region B lock land. It matters not to Manga that they lose those sales, as the empowered people are those who frequent forums like this, and read ahead of time. That's probably 1% of their customer base. It may not hit the wallet in the short term, but it's bad PR in the long term...
If I had been empowered with knowledge about importing and different versions 10 years ago, I would have imported Bandai's release of GITSSAC, rather than stick with Manga's. As it is, my recent significant anime purchases have included...
Madman's K-On! and K-On!! for Blu-ray
Funimation's Shiki for Blu-ray
Funimation's Spice and Wolf for Blu-ray
Funimation's Rideback for Blu-ray
Siren Visual's Penguindrum for Blu-ray and better authoring
Funimation's Cat Planet Cuties for better authored DVDs
Funimation's Princess Jellyfish for better authored DVDs
Aniplex's Baccano! for Blu-ray
Funimation's Trigun movie for better authored Blu-ray
that's a trend that reaches back all the way to Noein, Otogi Zoshi and Ouran High School Host Club...
Things are certainly a lot better now, with Manga releasing Blu-rays with most of their releases, and those Blu-rays merely being a reworking of US or AU discs, they very rarely author their own. But it's a sad state of affairs when any new Manga announcement instantly has me looking to other regions to see what they are doing with the title first.
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Honestly, the only thing stopping me from buying more U.S. anime releases is money (Heck, I still need to get the second parts of FUNimation's Steins;Gate and Shakugan no Shana III -Final- releases xD.). Even the number of UK releases I've been buying has drastically reduced compared to last year (Fate/Zero, Fate/stay night, High School DxD and Girls und Panzer are the only ones that come to mind).
I bought Sentai Filmworks' K-ON!! blu-ray releases as a direct result of the season 1 cancellation here and I even bought the first three volumes of Fairy Tail on blu-ray because of the UK release being DVD-only at the time (although I'll probably flog them on eBay or something and just get the UK releases at some point). I purchased Aniplex USA's Madoka sets (both TV LEs and the Japanese movie imports) at release because I really do love that series and the finished products were actually quite amazing - compared to MangaUK's series release which admittedly, was awesome to see it all in one set, but was barebones but really, if a UK company jumps in before the release of a US version and announces they have a show coming out on blu-ray, I'll probably just wait for the blu-ray release and if said US release is DVD only, I'll probably skip it because they tend to be more expensive than I'm comfortable paying for an out-dated format.
Honestly, the only thing stopping me from buying more U.S. anime releases is money (Heck, I still need to get the second parts of FUNimation's Steins;Gate and Shakugan no Shana III -Final- releases xD.). Even the number of UK releases I've been buying has drastically reduced compared to last year (Fate/Zero, Fate/stay night, High School DxD and Girls und Panzer are the only ones that come to mind).
I bought Sentai Filmworks' K-ON!! blu-ray releases as a direct result of the season 1 cancellation here and I even bought the first three volumes of Fairy Tail on blu-ray because of the UK release being DVD-only at the time (although I'll probably flog them on eBay or something and just get the UK releases at some point). I purchased Aniplex USA's Madoka sets (both TV LEs and the Japanese movie imports) at release because I really do love that series and the finished products were actually quite amazing - compared to MangaUK's series release which admittedly, was awesome to see it all in one set, but was barebones but really, if a UK company jumps in before the release of a US version and announces they have a show coming out on blu-ray, I'll probably just wait for the blu-ray release and if said US release is DVD only, I'll probably skip it because they tend to be more expensive than I'm comfortable paying for an out-dated format.
Shiroi Hane
Dragon Knight
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
(the last FUNimation simulcasts I got to legal take part in were the likes of Aria, Legendary Legend and Ookamisan, and those were sub-par YouTube streams)
Isn't that what FUNimation is doing in finally getting their latest shows back on somewhere we can view them on Animax?Rosencrantz said:
(the last FUNimation simulcasts I got to legal take part in were the likes of Aria, Legendary Legend and Ookamisan, and those were sub-par YouTube streams)
FUNimation have had two shots at distributing directly in the UK, via MVM and Revelation. I think at this point they've now stuck with sub-licensing to Manga longer than either of those so it seems to be working for them.
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
And Steins;Gate's on there (OVA is restricted to 'Buy the entire TV Series purchase' only LOL).
And Steins;Gate's on there (OVA is restricted to 'Buy the entire TV Series purchase' only LOL).
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Your definition of "Reap the profits" needs work. Animax isn't so much a streaming service as an infernal Hell that is told in tale to the young licences so that they will behave.Shiroi Hane said:
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
Just moving the recent Evangelion 3.33 discussion here:
And there's this gem:
"@MangaUK Evangelion 3.33 No Wonder People Watch (Online) For Free.FreeFree"
"@BarryJM_Guitar SNAP! Try telling Japan that."
(I mean it's true, but not something you really broadcast).
And:
I don't know! I am suffering from an existential crisis of confidence brought on by working at Manga for the last 10 years.
Just moving the recent Evangelion 3.33 discussion here:
And there's this gem:
"@MangaUK Evangelion 3.33 No Wonder People Watch (Online) For Free.FreeFree"
"@BarryJM_Guitar SNAP! Try telling Japan that."
(I mean it's true, but not something you really broadcast).
And:
I don't know! I am suffering from an existential crisis of confidence brought on by working at Manga for the last 10 years.
Re: Jerome of Manga UK sounds off about licensing restrictio
"#NewEvangelion3Title Evangelion 3.33: You [Can] Bloody Well Wait Until February???"
"@TanjaWho Read all the threads and then you can die a little inside like the rest of us."
Well I guess he snapped again.
"#NewEvangelion3Title Evangelion 3.33: You [Can] Bloody Well Wait Until February???"
"@TanjaWho Read all the threads and then you can die a little inside like the rest of us."
Well I guess he snapped again.