General Politics Thread

Vashdaman said:
While I get that the system is crap for the average working person, I really don't get where this idea comes from (well actually I probably do know, the media) that it's actually great for the average unemployed person, which I guess is what @Dave1988 seems to be saying. There are people in this thread on UC and other benefits, I don't know how you can read posts like the ones @Anj wrote and come and say things like "people who dont work and have an "illness" mostly workshy lay abouts". No, people who don't work and have an illness are not mostly workshy lay abouts. I know you weren't talking about anyone in this thread or trying to offend anyone, but you come across as insensitive to other people's hardships to say the least. You've clearly got your own hardships too and I don't doubt that, but you're not the only one mate. And I promise you that most of the chronically unemployed people out there would wish to be in the sort of position you are with a stable job they can hold down and a wife they were able to bring over from another country. You're coming in to this thread basically saying "poor me poor me, I'm so hard done by" but showing zero awareness or empathy for what other people in this thread are going through.

Of course there are a minority of people gaming the benefits system, but funnily enough the only ones I've known who do that are definitely not what you could call workshy, but people moonlighting about two different cash in hand jobs and multiple side hustles while also getting benefits. And like ayase, I don't really begrudge them, and I don't think they're really worth getting angry about. And as for the genuinely "workshy", who don't want to work and would rather subsist and get by on the meagre basic UC. Well, first of all that's a frugal life, and the DWP don't really make it easy to do this, I know this very well. I've been on UC and been genuinely ill so couldn't attend a work search review, I went to the doctor and got a sick note, and I still got sanctioned by some anonymous decision maker despite this. They're constantly trying to force you into some job you'd likely be terrible at and wouldn't last very long in. But that's nothing compared to what other people go through, so many genuinely deserving people in need or with children or with disabilities get shafted by the DWP. So honestly, you might want to talk to more people who actually receive benefits before you come to the conclusion that they're all wiping their bums with £50 notes and laughing at the honest working man. You're directing your anger at the wrong people. You correctly have a dim view of the current government and the establishment, cool I'm with you on that, but you've fallen right into their trap of getting angry about people who are weaker and worse off than you, the unemployed, illegal migrants, teenagers with no prospects, young struggling families, the ill.
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Not saying "I'm hard done by" what I have, I achieved on my own with no help from anyone at all, not even family. I'm saying, why should I pay for others with my taxes when I had to pay for my own loved one to come here? Yes, I do have my own hardships, but like I say I also have goals and again, I didn't say "all" are workshy did I? I said alot "game" the system, which they do. Seems others themselves are jumping to conclusions. I will leave it there, or I'll get suspended again for stating my own opinion while others just get away with it.
 
ayase said:
Right, here's the deal, to make things absolutely clear: None of my comments have been directed generally at people on benefits. In fact, none of my comments have been directed at people on benefits at all because those in receipt of pension credit are still eligible for the winter fuel payment. I am one of your number currently, as much as I hate being desperately poor I must hate employment slightly more and it appears the DWP agree I currently should not be working in case I snap and murder somebody. However I am (probably rightly) not classed as disabled so I receive only the basic amount of UC. So while we're relating personal experiences, here's how I spend my £98 a week (minus housing costs because remember, housing benefit is a separate benefit for both UC claimants and for pensioners):

Half of the bills in shared accommodation, monthly cost divided by 4 for weekly cost:
Council tax: 65/4 = £16.25
Gas/Electric: 60/4 = £15
Water: 20/4 = £5
Internet: 15/4 = £3.75

Total: £40.00 a week (or £5.72 per day)

Personal costs, monthly cost divided by 4 for weekly cost:
Food: 160/4 = £40
Mobile Phone: 10/4 = £2.50

Total: £42.50 a week (or £6.07 per day)

Average total cost of living: £82.50 a week (or £11.79 per day)

The remaining £15 or thereabouts goes on the odd DVD or book or pair of jeans or shoes, lest I lose the will to live entirely. Now let's say to make things simple, I didn't share my house and had to pay all the utility costs myself, so that £40 a week becomes £80 and the personal costs stay the same, thus my costs would be £122.50 a week (or £17.50 a day). What I am taking issue with here is pensioners not on pension credit who have an income above £218 a week (or £31.15 a day) pleading poverty. This is what I am failing to understand and nobody anywhere, least of all the media, seems willing or able to explain to me. If someone, anyone, could enlighten me as to what is causing a non-disabled pensioner (because disabled pensioners can get PIP) to need to spend £100 a week more than I do, I would be satisfied. I could pay my rent as well without even needing housing benefit on £218 a week.
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Thankyou for taking the time to explain all that Ayase, my point was partly that by pensionable age a lot of people have disabilities or health conditions of some kind... I still don't think means testing is a great idea but I am sorry if I was rude. As someone who's thinking a lot about how much more I really want to or need to buy outside of things like food, toiletries, safe sex supplies etc., I find your perspective on that interesting and worthwhile :)

Anj said:
I completely hear you on the therapy thing. The only thing offered to me was Talking Space and that did not help at all. The CBT does not work for anxiety at all (or my type of anxiety anyway, if there are 'types') and when I completed the course I said very diplomatically to the doctor that it didn't really help and they had no interest in listening to peoples' issues, just telling them how to not spiral and ignoring the queries asking 'what if we are already spiralling?!' Doctor said that they had literally no more to offer unless I wanted to go privately and get a psychiatrist. Hilarious. And pay for it with what exactly...
The system is broken. I bloody hope this new government hammer funds towards MH services.
I'm so sorry RadFem for any grief you have gotten over your disabilities because boy there are a lot of people out there with judgmental fingers pointing 'well if they can drive/walk/move they can work' etc.

And for what it's worth I think your art is lovely!
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That stinks, and thankyou so much for what you said about my art it made me really happy when you said that you would put it on bedsheets or curtains, I know "I'd wear that on a T-shirt" and other similar statement maybe don't mean as much as sentiments go these days when it is vastly easier to put something on a T-shirt, but still I really do appreciate you viewing my creative thread and commenting :)

I'd almost certainly be dead by now without the NHS and I'm one of millions, I think some people don't realise how important it is :(
 
Where it is a good thing that minimum wage is going to be £12.21 from next April, combined with the rumoured hike in employer national insurance rates, either prices will increase (to cover the extra cost of staff) or those companies will employ fewer people, making people work harder for the money.

Or some companies will invest in more automation, just look at fast food places where generally you are expected to order via the self-service kiosk freeing up the staff to do the serving.
 
Kite said:
Where it is a good thing that minimum wage is going to be £12.21 from next April, combined with the rumoured hike in employer national insurance rates, either prices will increase (to cover the extra cost of staff) or those companies will employ fewer people, making people work harder for the money.

Or some companies will invest in more automation, just look at fast food places where generally you are expected to order via the self-service kiosk freeing up the staff to do the serving.
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Normal practise, as soon as wages go up, everyday essentials follow, just a cycle really, so in reality, year on year we are worse off, as the extra we will get, goes towards council tax, and everyday foods, so we all loose out really
 
You're not wrong about that @Dave1988, not enough people realise this. It's almost impossible to find visual information on this for the UK (go figure, our media is just as complicit in not letting the people in on this) but this, from the US, is one of the best illustrations I've found for how screwed ordinary working people are:

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The American minimum wage has actually been going down in real terms since nineteen-sixty-eight to the point it's worth nearly half what it was then, I suspect it's much the same here. Inflation is basically hiding the fact that incomes are in fact lower because "number go up" and the government can say you're better off, even though you're actually not. This should, in my opinion, be revolution fomenting stuff but as ever, people (particularly British people) are too subservient and unwilling to rock the boat, so I guess we'll all just get poorer.

As for council tax, it is without question the most ridiculous, unfair tax that exists in this country. That was true when it was the "poll tax" and it's still true now. It's linked to the value of homes as assessed in nineteen-ninety-sodding-one rather than what they're actually worth now, it's paid by tenants who might as well just be flushing their money down the toilet rather than the owner of the property who will see an increase in the value of their investment and because local areas have to find their own money, it means people in some of the most deprived areas of the country (where the council has to invest more) pay the highest council tax while those in the wealthiest areas (where the council has to invest less) pay the least. Thanks again, Thatcher.
 
ayase said:
You're not wrong about that @Dave1988, not enough people realise this. It's almost impossible to find visual information on this for the UK (go figure, our media is just as complicit in not letting the people in on this) but this, from the US, is one of the best illustrations I've found for how screwed ordinary working people are:

View attachment 36558

The American minimum wage has actually been going down in real terms since nineteen-sixty-eight to the point it's worth nearly half what it was then, I suspect it's much the same here. Inflation is basically hiding the fact that incomes are in fact lower because "number go up" and the government can say you're better off, even though you're actually not. This should, in my opinion, be revolution fomenting stuff but as ever, people (particularly British people) are too subservient and unwilling to rock the boat, so I guess we'll all just get poorer.

As for council tax, it is without question the most ridiculous, unfair tax that exists in this country. That was true when it was the "poll tax" and it's still true now. It's linked to the value of homes as assessed in nineteen-ninety-sodding-one rather than what they're actually worth now, it's paid by tenants who might as well just be flushing their money down the toilet rather than the owner of the property who will see an increase in the value of their investment and because local areas have to find their own money, it means people in some of the most deprived areas of the country (where the council has to invest more) pay the highest council tax while those in the wealthiest areas (where the council has to invest less) pay the least. Thanks again, Thatcher.
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Ive always been on min wage, so so hard to get higher up the work ladder nowadays, i keep pestering my manager for raise i get the same "minumum wage goes up every year" yes and so do my bills, now, i try do less and less, got to the point that minimum wage, minimum effort.
 
Dave1988 said:
minimum wage, minimum effort.
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As it should be, I don't particularly like to speak ill of acquaintances but I know people who put in unpaid overtime (otherwise known as slavery) at their minimum wage job because "otherwise the job wouldn't get done" and I really can't understand them. It annoys me a bit actually to think that people are so weak-willed that they'll work for free to earn their employer more money out of a sense of obligation or fear. You do your contracted hours and if your employer fires you for doing your job as outlined in your employment contract you take them to the cleaners. If the job doesn't get done in the hours you're contracted for then it doesn't get done, they need to pay for you to work more hours or hire more people.
 
IMG_5224.jpeg
Jenrick might have lost the Tory leadership election but his wife has a bright future in “People born between 1944-1968 could be eligible for this” clickbait adverts, that’s what I thought this image was as I was scrolling down the article.
 
ayase said:
As it should be, I don't particularly like to speak ill of acquaintances but I know people who put in unpaid overtime (otherwise known as slavery) at their minimum wage job because "otherwise the job wouldn't get done" and I really can't understand them. It annoys me a bit actually to think that people are so weak-willed that they'll work for free to earn their employer more money out of a sense of obligation or fear. You do your contracted hours and if your employer fires you for doing your job as outlined in your employment contract you take them to the cleaners. If the job doesn't get done in the hours you're contracted for then it doesn't get done, they need to pay for you to work more hours or hire more people.
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The only time I have done this is when I was working for an animal charity. I would absolutely NOT do it for the corporate that I am working for, I would stay if things needed doing but I would stay for increments of 15 minutes so that I could claim the overtime, they can easily afford it.
Dave: Do you claim UC to top up your wages? I started doing that after I realised I could, it isn't much but it does make a wee difference each month.
 
Remember, remember the fifth of November
Lobbyists, Elon and pot
I know of no reason why superPAC treason
Should ever be forgot
Don Trump, Don Trump, ‘twas his intent
To dodge jail and become the President
Three score boxes of ballots below
Senile old Biden to overthrow
By God's providence he was replaced
With Kamala Harris, not to everyone's taste
Holler boys, holler boys, who needs debates?
Holler boys, holler boys
God save the States! Because nobody else will.
 
I've taken the rest of the week off work to watch the US election as it's always absolute cinema whatever happens.

Right now, it looks like Trump is very likely to win; New York Times are currently giving Trump a 83% chance of winning the presidency.

Who knows though, things can always change.
 
Oof, grim. It's looking like an easy Trump victory at this point. He might even win the popular vote. I've had a feeling this would go Trump's way, there was too much going against the dems. People feeling financially worse off (and not being educated enough to realise they're sure as hell going to feel even worse under Trump!), the genocide in Gaza putting off many left wing voters, and certainly (and it's very sad this is likely a big factor) the fact Kamala Harris is a woman and black. I also think, as completely demented as he often sounds, people probably really like the way Trump speaks, he doesn't sound like a politician and he very successfully positions himself as anti-establishment when people are more distrustful of the establishment than ever. It was always going to be a Trump win wasn't it. What's sad is, the Biden administration was actually more left wing than expected economically and was more pro-workers rights than any president in a while, but they just didn't manage to go far enough quick enough and help people feel better quick enough. I think that was their only chance and they fluffed it.

Honestly I feel like the dems have deserved to lose tonight, for bankrolling a genocide. Maybe if they win in four years time they'll have learned a lesson there. But they likely still won't have, and Trump is almost certainly going to be at least as bad for Palestinians as Biden was. My heart also goes out to the poor and vulnerable who live in America as they will have some very tough times ahead. And maybe most importantly of all, I think the environment and climate is completely screwed under another four years of Trump. And that's kind of scary for all of us.
 
Vashdaman said:
Oof, grim. It's looking like an easy Trump victory at this point. He might even win the popular vote. I've had a feeling this would go Trump's way, there was too much going against the dems. People feeling financially worse off (and not being educated enough to realise they're sure as hell going to feel even worse under Trump!), the genocide in Gaza putting off many left wing voters, and certainly (and it's very sad this is likely a big factor) the fact Kamala Harris is a woman and black. I also think, as completely demented as he often sounds, people probably really like the way Trump speaks, he doesn't sound like a politician and he very successfully positions himself as anti-establishment when people are more distrustful of the establishment than ever. It was always going to be a Trump win wasn't it. What's sad is, the Biden administration was actually more left wing than expected economically and was more pro-workers rights than any president in a while, but they just didn't manage to go far enough quick enough and help people feel better quick enough. I think that was their only chance and they fluffed it.

Honestly I feel like the dems have deserved to lose tonight, for bankrolling a genocide. Maybe if they win in four years time they'll have learned a lesson there. But they likely still won't have, and Trump is almost certainly going to be at least as bad for Palestinians as Biden was. My heart also goes out to the poor and vulnerable who live in America as they will have some very tough times ahead. And maybe most importantly of all, I think the environment and climate is completely screwed under another four years of Trump. And that's kind of scary for all of us.
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Some of the demographic data is truly astounding.

Trump has significantly increased voter shares in 18-29 year olds, Black men, Latinos, Hispanics, compared to 2020. Think I saw he's getting 20% of the Black vote overall, which is one of the highest shares for a Republican candidate (he got around 12% in 2020 for comparison).

Trump also sat down for multiple long-format podcasts with the likes of Joe Rogan and others. Harris only did scripted and edited interviews.

It was an absolute fumble from the Democrats; it was a bad decision to select Harris as their candidate. She was second in command to an unpopular president (by the end of his term) and she didn't have good approval ratings herself as VP.
 
He's definitely won. I think the silver lining of all this for me is that this is going to hasten American's decline and decay. It's a process that was already well under way, but another Trump presidency will speed it up, America will only become more and more insular and inward looking. In the long term that's probably a good thing for the rest of the world.
 
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