Everybody Loves Jerome

[TiggsPanther]

Exactly. As you say, it's relative to one's own preferences.

It just feels like people seem to give Anime limited and MVM a heck of a lot more leeway than Manga/Animatsu get simply because of pros and cons that lie more in line with people's preferences.

• No standard-edition release any time soon? Who cares, pony up or wait.
• No UK Blu-ray release? Well, at least it's getting a DVD. It's better than nothing. (Although MVM seems to be allowed to get away with this far more than Manga ever could)
• No chapter markers? Hang the B*****ds!

I know there's more to it that than but, all to often, that's how the overall views tend to come over as being.

Maybe I am in a minority on this particular forum but, as you say...

at the end of the day, people still need to consider what they want from the product (and company) when making their decisions.

And for me that is a decently-authored Blu-ray (in 2016, DVD-only should never ever be an option) at an affordable price without any unnecessary or actively disliked physical assets driving the price up with "extra value".

I tend to find that balanced between Manga and MVM, depending on the title. As MVM do tend towards a slightly better product but they're also still slightly more likely to relegate the shows I actually want to DVD.

Anime Limited's quality does tend to be the best, due to tending to use the same discs in their standard editions than their collector/ultimate editions. But that lag between the releases makes be feel like I'm being punished for liking amarays, disliking outer boxes (for anything less than three internal cases) and frankly not being bothered at all about artbooks.

Because when the license announcements hit, this is what goes through my mind:

• Anime Limited: Will there be a standard edition any time soon?
• MVM: Will they bother with a Blu-ray for this one?
• Manga: Will they get the chapter markers right?

All three, to me, are important factors. But there is one to which "No" isn't going to spoil a release for me.

So, yeah, Manga UK has its flaws but, despite these, they do have a slightly higher tendency to bring things out that, to use your phrase, "serve my preferences". That's not to say I don't want them to improve. It's just that I tend not to find the room for improvement a reason to drop a purchase as often.

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

I say this entirely selfishly, but getting the chapter markers wrong is a bigger issue for me. I know I can pony up for LEs more than the average person (I have a job with decent hours/wage for my age and little outgoings) but I can understand that point of view, I'd probably be pretty pissed too if I was unable to afford AL's increasingly expensive LEs. The perspective of this forum is almost always going to be skewed towards people who can afford LEs, I think anyway. I've seen collection's around here, and the majority of them aren't sparse, which leads me to believe that people around here probably have more disposable income than your average person. If we had a larger userbase of more casual fans that almost entirely rely on streaming, we'd probably see a bit more favour going Manga/Animatsu's way.

 

[Buzz201]

I say this entirely selfishly, but getting the chapter markers wrong is a bigger issue for me. I know I can pony up for LEs more than the average person (I have a job with decent hours/wage for my age and little outgoings) so I can understand that point of view, I'd probably be pretty pissed too if I was unable to afford AL's increasingly expensive LEs. The perspective of this forum is almost always going to be skewed towards people who can afford LEs, I think anyway. I've seen collection's around here, and the majority of them aren't sparse, which leads me to believe that people around here probably have more disposable income than your average person. If we had a larger userbase of more casual fans that almost entirely rely on streaming, we'd probably see a bit more favour going Manga/Animatsu's way.

I think there is a tendency to be more forgiving to AL and MVM than Manga too. But given the way they and their staff members conduct themselves, I can see why that's the case.

I will say that I don't think either AL or MVM has Jerome's brutal honesty, and I do appreciate the perhaps alternative/less sugarcoated perspective he provides.

 

[Rui]

It's interesting because what comes off as honesty from Jerome to many people (as evidenced right here) rubs me up wrong as dishonesty - he'll often say one thing to appeal to the group he (thinks that he) is talking to, then turn around and slag them off to another group. He's probably not actually doing it on purpose, though. I think this is dead on the money:

I personally think his problem is that he says what he thinks, often before he has time to fully think it through.

But when someone is making disgusting, obscene comments about how stupid and pig-headed people who buy collectors editions are in one breath then kissing up to them in another, or dismissing female fans then moaning that they don't buy female-orientated Manga shows, or pretending to like one of his newer licenses to flatter its fans then turning around and moaning about how that kind of show appeals to losers who are ruining anime, it comes off, to me, as extremely two-faced behaviour. That's what I can't stand.

Conversely, to some people a more measured, discretion-heavy message is interpreted as being less honest than a rude one because it's calculated to avoid directly attacking anyone. To me, it's a better way of communicating that doesn't immediately put half of your intended viewers' backs up before you get to your actual point. It's interesting because it's a recognised cultural difference between doing business in certain parts of the world and I can see where Jerome sometimes struggles with corporate relationships (because he says as much on Twitter).

Respecting the wishes of your business partners is an important part of doing business, even if it means that you can't always be as blunt about the frustrations you're facing behind the scenes; in Andrew's case, it's usually quite easy to read between the lines and see what he's saying without ever actually saying it. Jerome prefers to throw that respect out of the window and spell everything out on a regular basis, which is nice as we get to benefit from the extra snippets of information (and obvious misinformation) that come out as a result, but at the same time it probably makes his life a lot harder. You really don't need to be a jerk to people just to tell the truth, and being civilised doesn't always mean you're lying.

Personally speaking, I'd rather know important things like getting advance warning about defects or transparency in what's being done to avoid them in future (e.g. minor issues like the chapter stops, which have been a bugbear for ages, whether we're ever actually going to get decent simulcast support from Manga, and the entire Kaze situation) than the latest behind-the-scenes gossip laced with negativity and nonsense (e.g. the drama about how few copies CEs sell which was immediately disproven by AL, or the constant reminders about how many pieces of Jerome's anatomy I should do explicit things to for having a different opinion - nice). I'd like a bit of positivity and a feeling of progress along with all of the negativity.

R

 

[Buzz201]

Conversely, to some people a more measured, discretion-heavy message is interpreted as being less honest than a rude one because it's calculated to avoid directly attacking anyone. To me, it's a better way of communicating that doesn't immediately put half of your intended viewers' backs up before you get to your actual point. It's interesting because it's a recognised cultural difference between doing business in certain parts of the world and I can see where Jerome sometimes struggles with corporate relationships (because he says as much on Twitter).

R

To me, it's a case that I genuinely get the impression Jerome believes everything he says when he says it. (He may change his mind later, but in the moment of posting, I genuinely think believes it.) I don't get the impression other representatives do. I think they deliberately write their comment to present a version of the truth we as consumers will find more enjoyable.

I can see why some may find this agreeable, but I personally do not.

 

[TiggsPanther]

To me, it's a case that I genuinely get the impression Jerome believes everything he says when he says it. (He may change his mind later, but in the moment of posting, I genuinely think believes it.) I don't get the impression other representatives do. I think they deliberately write their comment to present a version of the truth we as consumers will find more enjoyable.

I can see why some may find this agreeable, but I personally do not.

I'm with you on that.

Now I do think that Anime Limited are lucky to have people like Andrew and Jeremy who are perhaps the few people I know of who can remain genuine-sounding whilst avoiding being blunt. But I tend to find that, on the whole, when people try to be polite/professional they (unintentionally) come over as seeming false.

I've seen so many examples, across so many different organisations, of PR types trying to defend something as being "A Good Thing" in the face of all evidence to the contrary. To the point that I long since got sick of people trying to paint a bad situation as anything other than a bad situation.

Anime Limited seem to be one of the few companies I've seen who can "Tell it like it is" in a polite and professional manner. And I'm pretty sure it's a very rare skillset otherwise I can think of dozens of situations where other companies would have employed Polite Honesty were it an easy thing to balance.

Jerome just tells it how he sees it. You don't get that level of honesty enough these days. And opinions here inform me as to why. Clearly it rubs the majority of people up the wrong way. But I value blunt honesty. Not everyone can be as diplomatic as Andrew and Jeremy. And when people can't, all too often they fall back on trying to put as positive a spin on it as possible, as they desperately try to imply that their superiors or partners haven't dropped the ball. When it's clear to all that they probably have.

Look at Viz's responses to people's early reactions to the Sailor Moon Blu-ray quality issues. They did not once throw Toei or their authoring house under the bus when it was patently clear that at least one of those parties had screwed up. They tried to claim it was "as good as it can get" when there was enough credible evidence out there that it really was substandard work.

It was the professional professional thing to do. But it came over as outright lying to people who were calling them out and I don't think anyone really believed them.
I'd've taken a Jerome Rant over that disingenuousness any day.

 

[Buzz201]

Look at Viz's responses to people's early reactions to the Sailor Moon Blu-ray quality issues. They did not once throw Toei or their authoring house under the bus when it was patently clear that at least one of those parties had screwed up. They tried to claim it was "as good as it can get" when there was enough credible evidence out there that it really was substandard work.

It was the professional professional thing to do. But it came over as outright lying to people who were calling them out and I don't think anyone really believed them.
I'd've taken a Jerome Rant over that disingenuousness any day.

Viz can't throw Toei under the bus. Toei would never work with them again.

I would personally disagree with your conclusions, I'm not expecting companies to throw other companies under the bus. I just want them to tell me the truth at the first possible opportunity, not after they've been rumbled.

Of the UK distributors, my personal opinion is that Manga's official communications are generally quite vague and lacking in substance, MVM are generally fairly honest but they probably won't go into detail if it's a failing on their part and Anime Limited generally go into far more detail than other distributors, but reading between the lines (and it's perhaps hard to explain why I feel like this), I think AL are more likely to "reframe" the truth in a manner that makes them look more agreeable. For example, we heard Gonna Be The Twin-Tail! was delayed due to delays in getting a BBFC certificate, however they didn't mention that AL submits to the BBFC late in the production process (which Andrew mentioned in an unrelated posted on the AL thread), so are perhaps more exposed to the risk of BBFC-induced delays than necessary. This isn't wrong, it's not even lying, it's just good PR to try and pin the blame on an already disliked third-party. I don't even really object to them doing it, it's just a part of business. However, it does make me less likely to trust them unreservedly than I perhaps might other companies.

 

[serpantino]

I don't have a lot of money to spend so preorders are largely aimed at supporting releases or publishers I approve of with a positive track record.

Why would I risk preordering & supporting potentially flawed releases that are unlikely to be fixed instead of purchasing them cheaply later on?

The same goes for bad chapter markers and DVD only releases, especially when they switch to DVD only after partially releasing on blu-ray.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Look at Viz's responses to people's early reactions to the Sailor Moon Blu-ray quality issues. They did not once throw Toei or their authoring house under the bus when it was patently clear that at least one of those parties had screwed up. They tried to claim it was "as good as it can get" when there was enough credible evidence out there that it really was substandard work.

It was the professional professional thing to do. But it came over as outright lying to people who were calling them out and I don't think anyone really believed them.
I'd've taken a Jerome Rant over that disingenuousness any day.

No, the professional thing to do would be to fess up without throwing Toei (at least, you can get another authroing house but Toei kinda have everyone by the balls on the other matters) under the buss.

You can admit to screwing up without being unlike a screaming monkey.

Also, FGS - it's Toei we're talking about here, if everything happened without incident you'd assume something was funimentaly wrong with the universe.

 

[Smeelia]

I think people might just generally have a tendency to overinterpret the way that others communicate. If you tend to be blunt yourself then you might assume that people avoiding being blunt are really just hiding their true feelings, if you tend to speak more politely then blunt people can sound like they're being deliberately confrontational. People do tend to interpret things based on their own expectations and those are usually based on how they would act in a given situation.

Also, don't get me started on body language and the like.

In fairness, it's difficult to understand a person's true intent if you don't have experience of dealing with them (and sometimes, even when you do). Still, it's easy to fall into the trap of making assumptions when it might be better to merely proceed with caution when things are uncertain.

 

[Just Passing Through]

There's being brutally honest, there's being insulting, and then there's taking the mick.

Telling customers straight off that streaming cuts into profits, and stops them from licensing content is brutally honest. Blaming those customers for streaming is insulting and personal, then talking about the latest show that he's been illegally streaming, well that is just taking the mick. And that's got nothing to do with attitude or body language.

 

[Rui]

I think AL are more likely to "reframe" the truth in a manner that makes them look more agreeable. For example, we heard Gonna Be The Twin-Tail! was delayed due to delays in getting a BBFC certificate, however they didn't mention that AL submits to the BBFC late in the production process (which Andrew mentioned in an unrelated posted on the AL thread), so are perhaps more exposed to the risk of BBFC-induced delays than necessary. This isn't wrong, it's not even lying, it's just good PR to try and pin the blame on an already disliked third-party. I don't even really object to them doing it, it's just a part of business. However, it does make me less likely to trust them unreservedly than I perhaps might other companies.

That's a valid stance. In the case of Twin-Tail, a BBFC delay is a BBFC delay even if it might have been absorbed if the production process was streamlined in a different way, so I don't really think anything was consciously being manipulated to paint them in a better light. I suspect the AL production process is arranged the way it is because they're often making their own materials instead of repackaging US/Australian releases with a different logo and calling it a new product. Paying the fees out up front when you know - quite painfully - that your releases are often delayed and won't recoup the costs for months or more would be financial suicide in the long term, and personally I'll take AL staying in business over rigidly sticking to dates even when the BBFC miss their turnaround targets. But you could reasonably argue that I'm simply being more generous with my opinions because I like AL - and perhaps also because I don't like Twin-Tail. I thoroughly respect that Andrew often tells us what's going on in detail, and walks a fine line between his position as a genuine fan in his own right (something very few of the reps tend to demonstrate openly) and his duties in the business world. I respect that he's put so much effort into pushing for cinema releases (across the country, at that) and simulcasting, and tried so many weird, experimental things to give us previously-unheard-of access to anime.

I do like to think that I don't especially like or dislike anyone irrationally. I've met Jerome, and been verbally abused by Jerome online during the dark days of the Manga UK Twitter account, ironically during a time when I was actively buying a lot of Manga product. I've never actually spoken to Andrew or Jeremy in person despite seeing them plenty of times, but they've never said anything obscene or unpleasant to me online. I've spoken to Tony a few times and he's great. However, I'm a selfish creature and if Jerome was putting out products I really wanted I would leave my annoyance behind and just buy them. Perhaps I'd learn to find his abrasiveness charming, in its own way. It's when he's delivering the message so negatively and seems disinterested in improving Rui's personal access to lots of anime that things become difficult to endure. It's no use being outspoken if you aren't also showing signs of listening and improving the product.

I think people might just generally have a tendency to overinterpret the way that others communicate. If you tend to be blunt yourself then you might assume that people avoiding being blunt are really just hiding their true feelings, if you tend to speak more politely then blunt people can sound like they're being deliberately confrontational. People do tend to interpret things based on their own expectations and those are usually based on how they would act in a given situation.

I was going to come and say something similar but you already beat me to it. I have a very introverted personality and I spend a lot of time drenched in Japanese culture, so I'm prone to reading Jerome's outbursts with a certain skepticism which others don't seem to feel at all. If Jerome and I met randomly in a bar one day I suspect we simply wouldn't get on even if anime and other matters were completely removed from the picture; we're just very different. And that's ok. He has every right to have the personality he was born with. If he wasn't actively interfering with my legal access to anime even when I'm ignoring him (Sakamoto being the most recent example) I'm sure we'd both naturally avoid one another and be better off for it.

Since streaming is a whole new ball game, my previous strategy of ignoring the parts of the UK industry I wasn't happy with is being challenged by companies muscling in on my access to the streaming utopia those in the US enjoy. I do hope that the situation will improve rapidly. I don't need to like Jerome as a person to be a customer, but when he's making being a customer hard for me the former problem tends to grate more than it should.

R

 

[Buzz201]

That's a valid stance. In the case of Twin-Tail, a BBFC delay is a BBFC delay even if it might have been absorbed if the production process was streamlined in a different way, so I don't really think anything was consciously being manipulated to paint them in a better light. I suspect the AL production process is arranged the way it is because they're often making their own materials instead of repackaging US/Australian releases with a different logo and calling it a new product. Paying the fees out up front when you know - quite painfully - that your releases are often delayed and won't recoup the costs for months or more would be financial suicide in the long term, and personally I'll take AL staying in business over rigidly sticking to dates even when the BBFC miss their turnaround targets. But you could reasonably argue that I'm simply being more generous with my opinions because I like AL - and perhaps also because I don't like Twin-Tail. I thoroughly respect that Andrew often tells us what's going on in detail, and walks a fine line between his position as a genuine fan in his own right (something very few of the reps tend to demonstrate openly) and his duties in the business world. I respect that he's put so much effort into pushing for cinema releases (across the country, at that) and simulcasting, and tried so many weird, experimental things to give us previously-unheard-of access to anime.

I do like to think that I don't especially like or dislike anyone irrationally. I've met Jerome, and been verbally abused by Jerome online during the dark days of the Manga UK Twitter account, ironically during a time when I was actively buying a lot of Manga product. I've never actually spoken to Andrew or Jeremy in person despite seeing them plenty of times, but they've never said anything obscene or unpleasant to me online. I've spoken to Tony a few times and he's great. However, I'm a selfish creature and if Jerome was putting out products I really wanted I would leave my annoyance behind and just buy them. Perhaps I'd learn to find his abrasiveness charming, in its own way. It's when he's delivering the message so negatively and seems disinterested in improving Rui's personal access to lots of anime that things become difficult to endure. It's no use being outspoken if you aren't also showing signs of listening and improving the product.

R

I don't mean to suggest anyone does dislike Jerome irrationally, he has clearly made a lot of inappropriate statements, and people dislike him for obvious reasons.

My problem is that people dismiss a lot of what he says out of hand because they do not like him, or they might perhaps deliberately obscure the full picture to make Jerome look bad. For example, when Jerome made the comment that CEs were only selling 300 units. He wasn't proven wrong as such, he was proven not to be looking at the full picture (his figure didn't include more specialist retailers like AOL or UP1 or sales at conventions), yet people are acting like he deliberately told an outright lie to make AL look bad. Given Manga tends to rely more heavily on traditional outlets and casual consumers, that information is probably more relevant to Manga than the full sales figures.

Even when Andrew agrees with him, his comments still get ignored. Jerome says streaming hurts standard editions -- people explode into shouts of "he's a liar!, he's a liar!" -- Andrew agrees with him, and people tone down their criticism, but they still refuse to believe it. Whereas if Andrew had said it first, it would probably be taken as gospel truth and used to push for more CEs.

I would also note that Jerome genuinely believes he and Manga are working to increase access to anime, they just aren't doing it in the way you want. I'd argue the fact Death Note is available for pre-order on blu-ray at £25, their commitment to low prices even when AL seems hellbent on increasing them, and their commitment to standard editions, even when expensive full price collector's editions are available, are proof of that. I'm sure Manga would argue that holding back Sakomoto from streaming was necessary to ensure a home video release took place. You can think they're right to make that assumption or you can not think that, but $150 an episode is such a low figure, that no sane businessperson would risk it. (Andrew Partridge might, but he probably doesn't fit the "sane businessperson" criteria. He also doesn't have a parent company to answer to.)

That said, I think Jerome was incredibly stupid to reveal that Manga were rightsquatting the streaming rights and even more stupid to reveal he was watching it via questionable means. I certainly wouldn't be too upset if anybody admitted to doing the same thing.

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

I'm not entirely convinced that Death Note being £25 is something that happened on purpose. The RRP is £60, even with Amazon discount and all that, I'm unsure the price would fall so low as less than half before it even comes out, and I suspect it will shoot up to something a lot higher soon. The same thing happened a couple of months back with AL's Riddle Story of Devil plummeting to £20 for a breif amount of time before jumping back to £45, which is where I think Death Note will about end up.

 

[Buzz201]

I'm not entirely convinced that Death Note being £25 is something that happened on purpose. The RRP is £60, even with Amazon discount and all that, I'm unsure the price would fall so low as less than half before it even comes out, and I suspect it will shoot up to something a lot higher soon. The same thing happened a couple of months back with AL's Riddle Story of Devil plummeting to £20 for a breif amount of time before jumping back to £45, which is where I think Death Note will about end up.

*Dashes off to Amazon to pre-order before it's too late...*

 

[Jaysgba]

I respect that he's put so much effort into pushing for cinema releases (across the country, at that)

I would argue that Andrew has put little effort into theatrical releases. Your Name is the first title that is in anywhere near as many cinemas as any of the theatrical releases Manga have pulled off. For the most part, AL's attempts at theatrical releases have been a bit of a joke. Screening something at a festival at Scotland does not count as a cinema release. Prior to Your Name, the only AL cinema release that was viable for me was MCM Loves Anime (and that wasn't actually a cinema) because I'd already spent the ~3 hours on the train to go to MCM anyway. Meanwhile, Manga have been putting films in enough cinemas for me to have a choice of at least two per film, aside from 2011's Yu-Gi-Oh! 3D. Your Name, for me, seems to be in the same cinemas as Akira, which is an increase upon the cinemas used for Boruto, and Attack on Titan, but one shy of the ones used for DBZRF if you include the 3D re-release.

Anime Limited's idea of a theatrical release seems to be "screen it at Scotland Loves Anime", and while that may be fine for those that can make it to SLA, it leaves the majority of us without a release. Anthem of the Heart could've been given a proper limited release, instead it did some silly "tour" that would've required people to spend many hours travelling to the cinema of a major city and back at minimum. To me, it seems Manga did all the legwork proving to local cinemas that anime can get people in the seats, and now AL are taking advantage of that to finally start on those theatrical releases their website has been promising us for years.

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

I would argue that Andrew has put little effort into theatrical releases. Your Name is the first title that is in anywhere near as many cinemas as any of the theatrical releases Manga have pulled off. For the most part, AL's attempts at theatrical releases have been a bit of a joke. Screening something at a festival at Scotland does not count as a cinema release. Prior to Your Name, the only AL cinema release that was viable for me was MCM Loves Anime (and that wasn't actually a cinema) because I'd already spent the ~3 hours on the train to go to MCM anyway. Meanwhile, Manga have been putting films in enough cinemas for me to have a choice of at least two per film, aside from 2011's Yu-Gi-Oh! 3D. Your Name, for me, seems to be in the same cinemas as Akira, which is an increase upon the cinemas used for Boruto, and Attack on Titan, but one shy of the ones used for DBZRF if you include the 3D re-release.

I think some of that is perspective. If we're talking availability, Your Name is the first anime film screening I'll actually be able to attend. Manga never put anything close enough for me to go to. You only have to look at Akira to see that the closest showing to me is absolutely miles away:

 

[Buzz201]

I think some of that is perspective. If we're talking availability, Your Name is the first anime film screening I'll actually be able to attend. Manga never put anything close enough for me to go to. You only have to look at Akira to see that the closest showing to me is absolutely miles away:

My nearest screening of Your name is 40 miles away.

Both Manga and AL are pathetic on that front...

 

[Morbo]

I think some of that is perspective. If we're talking availability, Your Name is the first anime film screening I'll actually be able to attend. Manga never put anything close enough for me to go to. You only have to look at Akira to see that the closest showing to me is absolutely miles away:

To be honest that's under what 15 miles? I'm going further to see Akira. The difference of having your own transport I guess.

These kinda things can only be limited due to costs, the film being older and anime having a lot less of a cult following than other older titles I've seen at cinema (die hard, back to the future etc)

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

To be honest that's under what 15 miles? I'm going further to see Akira. The difference of having your own transport I guess.

These kinda things can only be limited due to costs, the film being older and anime having a lot less of a cult following than other older titles I've seen at cinema (die hard, back to the future etc)

Yeah, I don't drive and I don't think I'd be able to get public transport up there, meaning my parents would have to give me a lift, which I'm not sure would even be feasible considering their working hours.