UK Anime Distributor Anime Limited Discussion Thread

Buzz201 said:
thedoctor2016 said:
Also I hate digital manga i will be getting the three paperback sets for £100 each manga is much better physically
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I was just pointing out the comparative absurdity of that price strategy, the fact you can pick up an entire long-running manga for less than a 27 episode TV series should be shameful. I wasn't actually suggesting people brought Naruto instead...
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The UBW boxes sold 30k+ copies each in Japan with those prices so the price model seems much more viable than absurd. Usually i'd say that we should be happy that the Japanese put their money where there mouth is and basically end up fueling high quality productions like Fate/Zero, but this time it seems quite a few westerners have joined in as well which is great ( ﾟ▽ﾟ)!

And if you think about how relatively few people actually buy physical anime it's not odd for companies to choose to focus on low volume/high prices since there's not a market for high volume sales outside a few rare exceptions like Gundam, Love Live etc.

As for manga and prices it will always be much cheaper than anime due to the fact that anime production costs way way way more than producing manga. A paperback volume of manga in Japan only costs £2.5-3.5 whereas an anime volume will cost around £33.
 
DesuDayo said:
The UBW boxes sold 30k+ copies each in Japan with those prices so the price model seems much more viable than absurd. Usually i'd say that we should be happy that the Japanese put their money where there mouth is and basically end up fueling high quality productions like Fate/Zero, but this time it seems quite a few westerners have joined in as well which is great ( ﾟ▽ﾟ)!

And if you think about how relatively few people actually buy physical anime it's not odd for companies to choose to focus on low volume/high prices since there's not a market for high volume sales outside a few rare exceptions like Gundam, Love Live etc.

As for manga and prices it will always be much cheaper than anime due to the fact that anime production costs way way way more than producing manga. A paperback volume of manga in Japan only costs £2.5-3.5 whereas an anime volume will cost around £33.
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I was talking about Aniplex of America, who I doubt managed to sell 30k copies. I don't think this model is something to be celebrated, it might be viable, but I doubt it's sustainable. Now is probably the time to start experimenting with alternate financing methods, before it's too late. That said, the industry probably isn't going to end anytime soon either, so my doomsday predictions are probably a tad silly.

I know manga will be cheaper, but an entire 72 volume run of a manga for $20/30 cheaper than a 27/8 episode TV series is absurd.
 
Lutga said:
I mean, in an ideal world the UK would release every anime title day and date with the US, but that's never going to happen unless someone like an ADV returns that actually exists as a company in both the US or the UK (say for example if Funi suddenly started releasing UK editions too - but like that's ever going to happen).
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They've done it before, with Revelation and MVM. Back then the discs were replicated in the UK and used Madman masters so were months behind the US, but if they could manage to get BBFC certification ahead of the US release, it's not impossible for them to do day and date with a shared physical print run. They already sometimes share discs with Madman, the only problem is the BBFC cert which they are not likely to delay their domestic release to wait for.
 
Shiroi Hane said:
They've done it before, with Revelation and MVM. Back then the discs were replicated in the UK and used Madman masters so were months behind the US, but if they could manage to get BBFC certification ahead of the US release, it's not impossible for them to do day and date with a shared physical print run. They already sometimes share discs with Madman, the only problem is the BBFC cert which they are not likely to delay their domestic release to wait for.
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I bet the import tax from the US would make them ridiculously expensive though. I thought Madman printed their own discs from FUNi's masters, as AL did with Tokyo Ghoul.
 
Buzz201 said:
I was talking about Aniplex of America, who I doubt managed to sell 30k copies. I don't think this model is something to be celebrated, it might be viable, but I doubt it's sustainable. Now is probably the time to start experimenting with alternate financing methods, before it's too late. That said, the industry probably isn't going to end anytime soon either, so my doomsday predictions are probably a tad silly.

I know manga will be cheaper, but an entire 72 volume run of a manga for $20/30 cheaper than a 27/8 episode TV series is absurd.
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Well from the looks of things Aniplex of America are doing quite well, I remember seeing that just one volume of their SAO releases sold over 5000 copies which is a lot considering that the first series is divided into 4 different sets which have a store price of $90 each I think. I think it was a sales rep or PR person from Funimation who had previously said it was a success if a show could sell 2000-3000 copies and that's with the price model that they have which relies more on volume. And if i'm not mistaken Aniplex of America's Madoka volume 1 sold 4000 copies. So they've been pulling in some pretty impressive numbers considering their pricing model.

Meanwhile it's still "a thing" to hope for a Blu-ray release in the UK, and that says a lot about the state of the market which most likely has the cheapest available anime releases in the west. Either the market is just that small, or the products aren't enticing enough to catch a crowd. Meanwhile there's Anime Limited. At least to me they're genuinely a breath of fresh air in the UK market and I have no problem at all with the fact that they're likely to charge more than MVM or Manga.

Regarding the manga vs anime prices, making any full length anime requires hundreds of of people and multiple studios involved putting in a lots and lots of hours. Then making an anime with impressive visuals like Fate Zero most likely costs quite a bit more.
 
DesuDayo said:
Buzz201 said:
I was talking about Aniplex of America, who I doubt managed to sell 30k copies. I don't think this model is something to be celebrated, it might be viable, but I doubt it's sustainable. Now is probably the time to start experimenting with alternate financing methods, before it's too late. That said, the industry probably isn't going to end anytime soon either, so my doomsday predictions are probably a tad silly.

I know manga will be cheaper, but an entire 72 volume run of a manga for $20/30 cheaper than a 27/8 episode TV series is absurd.
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Well from the looks of things Aniplex of America are doing quite well, I remember seeing that just one volume of their SAO releases sold over 5000 copies which is a lot considering that the first series is divided into 4 different sets which have a store price of $90 each I think. I think it was a sales rep or PR person from Funimation who had previously said it was a success if a show could sell 2000-3000 copies and that's with the price model that they have which relies more on volume. And if i'm not mistaken Aniplex of America's Madoka volume 1 sold 4000 copies. So they've been pulling in some pretty impressive numbers considering their pricing model.
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Judging by the way that Aniplex is doing, any title that received a second print run is pretty much a success in Aniplex standards. Meaning the only ones that could've performed poorly would be Blue Exorcist, Fate/zero and Sword Art Online's Fairy Dance arc, the main culprit for all of this is obviously down to the fact that there was no standard edition available at the time of its release and everyone just imported the UK/AU version. Heck Vividred Operations (DVD only mind you) is also a poor seller according to the Aniplex guy.
 
The UK market really is *that* small - unfortunately. Either through sheer force of the fact that our population is so much smaller, but probably also amplified by the fact we usually get stuff quite a bit later than everyone else.

That said, there's other factors to consider such as a wider declining DVD market / drop off on long-running series / more people deciding to stream (legally or otherwise) instead of buying physical editions.

I always take Naruto as a good example as it's easily one of the best selling titles in the UK (so you can consider pretty much every other anime title to sell less than it). Back in 2006 when Manga started releasing Naruto, the early volumes did over 20,000 copies each. Now it probably only does around 1500 copies a volume.
 
According to what he said the most successful releases seem to be the pricier ones. And like you said, the Vividred Operations DVD which was cheap compared to the Aniplex standard was a poor seller. They had a few other releases like that but stopped doing them, most likely because they weren't worth it.

I'm not sure how Fate/Zero has performed considering the first set have sold out after quite a long time and recently the second import set of UBW sold out rather quickly. Could be that the first Fate/Zero set had a lot of copies produced and that it took a long time to sell all of them. As for the UBW set it could mean that they didn't ship over a lot of copies in order to not have a lot of them gathering dust. Or it could also mean that both sets performed really well.

And while the Fairy Dance arc Collector's Editions didn't get reprints they did get standard editions later on, which isn't too surprising considering how big SAO is. I'm more inclined to believe that it's less of a matter of the Fairy Dance arc performing poorly, and more of a matter that it didn't perform as good as the Aincrad arc which performed really good.


RE Lutga

With the low amount of volume sales it makes more sense, to me at least, to do the higher price/lower volume pricing model rather than the lower price/higher volume since the latter simply won't work as the market size fit for that doesn't exist in the first place.

And since you mention that we get anime releases later than everyone else, higher prices could also allow for earlier releases as the threat of importation becomes less of an issue.
 
Fans shouldn't be made to pay higher prices just for 'the sake of it though', or an earlier release.

At least in Anime Ltd's case, they justify the higher price with luxury packaging. You can see what your extra cash is getting you (ie. compare Manga's four part release of SAO to Anime Ltd, considering they cost about the same on Amazon - Anime Ltd's has way more extra value in it)

Otherwise we end up in a situation like the model in Japan (and increasingly the US) where you move back to more and more individual volume releases - I mean, just look at the crap Pony Can USA is pumping out. Sure, they're 'more' than just a regular edition, but in my eyes they sure as heck don't equate to the monetary cost. It's just an excuse to split the release over more volumes and charge more for them.
 
If fans aren't able or willing to see it from a company's or an industry perspective they shouldn't be upset when shows are DVD only or not not released at all in the UK despite being released in other markets like Australia or the US. Getting your money's worth is important of course, albeit very subjective, but i'd say there's gotta be some limits to how much you can demand if you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is.

Better quality packaging and additional bonus items are also perks of the higher price/lower volume, perks that I very much enjoy（‐＾▽＾‐）

As for the situation you're referring to I wouldn't call it a negative one as those markets are doing great in comparison to the UK which like i've previously mentioned have the cheapest DVD/Blu-ray releases in the west. If the high volume/low pricing model was good for a niche like anime the UK should be doing really well, right ( ﾟｰﾟ)?
 
The trouble is though, not everyone wants to pay those prices though, and if you continue to cater only to the hardcore, you run the risk of alienating a lot of people - shrinking the market even further and killing off any chance of bringing in new blood.

While more expensive editions might be advantageous for the distributor because they make more money from them, I'd argue they're potentially bad for the market long term.

Also, different markets work differently. In the US someone can print 5000 copies of a super deluxe luxury edition and they'll all sell out, but in the UK you might only sell 500 copies of that exact same box set. And let's say for example a minimum print run on creating that box set is 1000 copies - that means you're sat with 500 copies in a warehouse that are making you no money, and perhaps even losing you money if you never see a return on that investment.

Imagine if every title you released had to take into account that 1000 copy minimum print run - and imagine if many of those titles only sell 100-500 copies - you can quickly see how a lot of 'dead' stock keeps mounting up, and while you might hit it big on some popular series, you'll probably take just as many hits on ones that don't sell as well. It's just not sustainable when the market is that small - which the UK basically is like.
 
I can't see how low price/high volume will work in the long run either, seeing how it's a an already small market that's been dwindling for quite some time now.

But i'm not saying either or, rather than that I think it could be better to do an initial release for fans who wants an earlier release with nice packaging and interesting bonus items included and are willing to pay for that and then later on do a standard, priced down edition.
 
DesuDayo said:
I can't see how low price/high volume will work in the long run either, seeing how it's a an already small market that's been dwindling for quite some time now.
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Not that I can say this with any kind of authority or great industry insight, but high prices are most definitely going to be a factor in further reducing the size of the consumer base.

I used to think I was in a minority of folks who'd comment negatively on pricing. But a look around other forums and Youtube would seem to suggest otherwise.
 
I don't think low prices will save the UK industry, but equally, I don't think high price/deluxe editions will either - the balance lies somewhere in between.

Ultimately, it comes down to the shows - popular, in-demand shows will sell (within the limits of the UK anime-buying market) and elements such as price and packaging will then influence that sales figure, but will rarely be the core determining factor.

I think the difficult thing is that right now, the UK anime industry, along with DVD sales as a whole is going through the same immense shift the music industry went through when it shifted from CDs to downloads, and then from downloads to streaming. Netflix continues to explode in popularity, and more and more 'casuals' are realising, why should I buy a DVD again when most of my needs are met by the likes of Netflix.

The difficulty with the UK market is this means that while the big titles still come out, the danger is the smaller titles, which will sell such minuscule numbers they just won't be worth it. Hence one of the reasons why someone like Diskotek would sadly probably never work here, because while a lot of those old shows deserve releases and are worth preserving, they just wouldn't sell in the UK in decent enough numbers.
 
I personally believe that the UK anime industry is not going to get any better as time goes on. The audience just aren't the type to spend money on what are essentially unnecessary luxuries when they can alternatively stream or download their content and be done with it. Anime is essentially treated as an all you can eat buffet and very disposable and so investing X amount of money into a single property isn't how people consume their content. This of course creates a few problems. Creating deluxe sets for a single show and having the entry price be so high deters people as investing in a single show goes against their approach and having to wait X amount of months for all 3 or 4 parts in a staggered release doesn't help either. A lot of these sets are front loaded in their sales and tend to be bought by the kinds of people whom are up to date and engaged with such releases and distros, people like ourselves, many of which on this very forum purchase Anime Limited titles for the sake of them being Anime Limited titles because a certain level of quality is guaranteed. On the other hand single, cheap releases are also not going to fair that much better as there's no real incentive to own these releases for these people outside of owning a physical copy, a thing that for better or worse most people don't appreciate in an all-digital world, a world where you can get a hold of a series legally or otherwise from the comfort of your own home with only a few GB of your HDD being at stake. The people that care about that IP will have ultimately ordered the US set well in advance as is usually the case.

It's never going to get any rosier and so each distributor should just carve out their own niche and be happy with it, something Anime Limited seem to have done thus far, replicating a steady stream of sales across all their titles thus far with a few going OOP. That has to do with acquiring the correct IP but also going for a segment of the market that is uncontested, the higher end market. Being able to shift through 1000 units of a series consecutively puts them in a comfortable position, which depending on how you look at it is part scary as its shows how tiny the market truly is. The physical distribution of film and TV, never mind anime is never going to get any better in the UK however streaming has potential to reach a larger audience as the tech gets better and more robust. A big problem for streaming as of now is fragmentation and having to use multiple sites to access your content no doubt confuses and puts people off. Physical media is in decline, physical media for a niche market is therefore not going to fare any better.

No idea why this is all in the Anime Limited thread as this is a broad assessment however as negative as this all sounds, Anime Limited for now seems to be doing well. You should always try to reach higher, but you should also not try to get too greedy which is the key really. Appreciate the fan base that you have and budget accordingly and acquire the right properties.
 
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