UK Anime Distributor Anime Limited Discussion Thread

[jonno394]

As someone who crawled through the same problem in 2014, I definitely know that feeling well so hang in there with it! Hopefully the majority of our product isn't that quick to go off shelves! Even shows like Root A Collector's will be in stock for a month or so on Amazon before they delete usually from release so that's a positive at least .

Smart call and good luck on saving for the deposit there, having a place of your very own is important too!

AP

Yeah it's definitely a struggle, but I've allowed myself a set amount each month for games and anime, and it's just a case of juggling to fit things in at certain times. I've been saving for around a year now, and it just seems so far away (I anticipate another 2 years before I have anything close to a deposit - dependant on teh state of the market of course) that i start thinking, maybe i'm budgeting too much for my hobbies lol, but then I think i'd likely give up saving If I didn't allow myself the treats!

 

[Just Passing Through]

Any chance of giving Fairy Tail Part 9 a re-release? Manga authored that one locally in the UK instead of using Madman Ent's native PAL transfer. It was a poor NTSC-PAL standards conversion, with horrible and visibly degrading compression, and on top of all that, the subtitles are out of sync. It feels more like you're going from Part 8 to Part 10.

 

[Ath]

Out of curiosity Andrew, is there any particular reason that you're using steel packs for Empire of Corpses and not Steelbooks? Is it just the case that non-Scanavo ones are less expensive to produce?

 

[HdE]

Expelled From Paradise is looking like another typically nice package.

I'm BEYOND excited to finally get hold of that (nabbed it in the 12 Days of Xmas deal, so I'm hopeful it'll arrive soon-ish.)

And lo! I check my email and I have a dispatch notice. HUZZAH!

(It's almost as if Andrew's helper elves were keeping an eye on the forum...)

 

[HellCat]

FMA pre-ordered. That's a steal.

 

[Yami]

The good news with The Place Promised In Our Early Days & Voices of a Distant Star pack:

• Disc content is done.
• English language dub and original Japanese audio in both 2.0 and 5.1 audio options for each language.
• Voices of a Distant Star Extra: An alternate Japanese audio track of the feature with Makoto Shinkai himelf as part of the cast.
• Voices of a Distant Star Extra: An interview with Makoto Shinkai
• Voices of a Distant Star Extra: Storyboard version of the feature
• Voices of a Distant Star Extra: A trailer collection
• Voices of a Distant Star Extra: She and Her Cat short (yay!)
• The Place Promised in our Early Days Extra: A feature trailer
• The Place Promised in our Early Days Extra: Interviews with Makoto Shinkai and the primary voice actors in the feature Yuuka Nanri, Masato Hagiwara and Hidetaka Yoshioka.

The bad news:

• Delayed
• Travelling Daru short MIA

It feels like I've been looking forward to this for most of this decade

I'm still looking forward to it though; they're two utterly sublime films. A bit disappointed that a super duper edition with 5cm/sec couldn't be worked out + I would have liked to have seen a booklet and his first short. Other Worlds (which is *really* short and can be seen on YouTube, but I would like to see it in better quality) but it still is my favourite AL release so far, on paper!

 

[Yami]

Releasing the original Astro Boy? they would have to take all the financial things into consideration, but it was workable they would consider it.

I'm all for old anime (if you haven't noticed!) but I would be surprised if a 193-episode-long black-and-white series was financially workable if the 26 episodes of Future Boy Conan seemingly isn't.

 

[HdE]

Releasing the original Astro Boy? they would have to take all the financial things into consideration, but it was workable they would consider it.

I'm all for old anime (if you haven't noticed!) but I would be surprised if a 193-episode-long black-and-white series was financially workable if the 26 episodes of Future Boy Conan seemingly isn't.

Aw, man - Astro Boy is one of those REALLY weird titles to peg, isn't it? You'd think there'd be massive demand for it, but I'm not sure there's enough to warrant it. Which is a damned shame. I bought the Mill Creek re-release of the most recent Astro Boy series (with it's fuzz inducing 10 episodes per disc and wonky ordering) and couldn't help but think ANYBODY could do a better job of it.

I'd love to see more properly old school stuff come to these shores. I just wonder if there's anything like the numbers of folks who'd be willing to throw money at it. Still... I'll hold on to my dreams of seeing Astro Boy, Tetsujin 28 and their contemporaries over here some day.

 

[Rui]

I believe the main problem with something like that is going to be the BBFC. Even if you can get cheap discs from another region's release and cut all the costs possible, you still have to pay similar fees to the biggest modern Hollywood blockbusters per minute (and there's a lot of minutes over 193 episodes). If new and shiny titles like Samurai Flamenco are struggling to recoup BBFC costs I can't imagine how a niche older title would do it.

Personally, I'm happy to leave the long-running classics to the US where there's no BBFC minimum sales threshold strangling them from the outset.

R

 

[Buzz201]

Aw, man - Astro Boy is one of those REALLY weird titles to peg, isn't it? You'd think there'd be massive demand for it, but I'm not sure there's enough to warrant it. Which is a damned shame. I bought the Mill Creek re-release of the most recent Astro Boy series (with it's fuzz inducing 10 episodes per disc and wonky ordering) and couldn't help but think ANYBODY could do a better job of it.

I'd love to see more properly old school stuff come to these shores. I just wonder if there's anything like the numbers of folks who'd be willing to throw money at it. Still... I'll hold on to my dreams of seeing Astro Boy, Tetsujin 28 and their contemporaries over here some day.

The whole point of Mill Creek's re-release was that it was dirt cheap and reasonably good. I've not heard any complaints about it, other than from you, so I think mission accomplished from Mill Creek's perspective. Unless there's something I've not heard about.

Having re-watched an episode a couple of years back (this was the first and only anime series I tried to watch regularly as a child, so it holds particular interest for me),when Crackle had it for the UK. I'm not sure increasing the disc count is going to make the show look that much better. I think it's always going to be a little crap, especially if you're using the dubbed version (which features new titles and credits, so I think is a re-cut).

But the 2003 Astro Boy is I believe represented by Sony Pictures Television, rather than an anime studio. Unfortunately, Sony UK have in the past outright refused to sublicence anything* (hence why the Cowboy Bebop movie is unlikely). However in the past couple of months, Criterion has succeeded in bringing some of their Sony sublicences over, so maybe Sony UK's stance on sublicencing is softening or maybe Criterion are getting the rights through Sony US.

*Andrew hasn't said this, Arrow freelancer, MichaelB said it over on blu-ray.com a while back

 

[Yami]

Releasing the original Astro Boy? they would have to take all the financial things into consideration, but it was workable they would consider it.

I'm all for old anime (if you haven't noticed!) but I would be surprised if a 193-episode-long black-and-white series was financially workable if the 26 episodes of Future Boy Conan seemingly isn't.

Aw, man - Astro Boy is one of those REALLY weird titles to peg, isn't it? You'd think there'd be massive demand for it, but I'm not sure there's enough to warrant it. Which is a damned shame. I bought the Mill Creek re-release of the most recent Astro Boy series (with it's fuzz inducing 10 episodes per disc and wonky ordering) and couldn't help but think ANYBODY could do a better job of it.

I'd love to see more properly old school stuff come to these shores. I just wonder if there's anything like the numbers of folks who'd be willing to throw money at it. Still... I'll hold on to my dreams of seeing Astro Boy, Tetsujin 28 and their contemporaries over here some day.

As Rui said, the BBFC fees are a big problem for long-running series like Astro Boy. A big plus with something like Momotaro's Divine Sea Warriors is that it's only 74 mins in length (plus any extras) total. Astro Boy would be, what? ~25 x 193? So that's 4825 minutes - putting that through the BBFC Fee Calculator outputs a £35294.40 fee! Licensing, authoring, packaging and distribution costs would be on top of that.

So vintage films and shorter series would be far more cost effective; I'd love to see Momotaro followed by a Toei Doga film or two. Hakujaden is obviously a big one, being the first colour anime film, and The Little Prince and the Eight-Headed Dragon is marvellous.

I also think that Future Boy Conan is potentially the best thing Miyazaki's ever done, and while I undoubtedly sound like a broken record I do want to get more people interested in it so that it becomes a more commercially attractive release.

I'd also take Space Runaway Ideon over any of the Gundam series.

Unfortunately, Sony UK have in the past outright refused to sublicence anything* (hence why the Cowboy Bebop movie is unlikely). However in the past couple of months, Criterion has succeeded in bringing some of their Sony sublicences over, so maybe Sony UK's stance on sublicencing is softening or maybe Criterion are getting the rights through Sony US.

*Andrew hasn't said this, Arrow freelancer, MichaelB said it over on blu-ray.com a while back

Criterion releases are distributed by Sony on both sides of the pond - technically Criterion releases are Sony releases, and Sony submits them to the BBFC. So it's not sublicensing really.

 

[Smeelia]

As Rui said, the BBFC fees are a big problem for long-running series like Astro Boy. A big plus with something like Momotaro's Divine Sea Warriors is that it's only 74 mins in length (plus any extras) total. Astro Boy would be, what? ~25 x 193? So that's 4825 minutes - putting that through the BBFC Fee Calculator outputs a £35294.40 fee! Licensing, authoring, packaging and distribution costs would be on top of that.

It may be a lot of money but it's worth it to protect parents from having to do some research on and/or put some thought into what they might show to their children... I mean, to protect people from deciding for themselves what kind of thing they might want to see... I mean...

Can someone remind me why the BBFC exists again?

 

[HdE]

The whole point of Mill Creek's re-release was that it was dirt cheap and reasonably good. I've not heard any complaints about it, other than from you, so I think mission accomplished from Mill Creek's perspective. Unless there's something I've not heard about.

Not to put too fine a point n it, but Mill Creek's release of Astro Boy looks like ****. 10 epiodes per disc introduces loads of noticeable artifacting, and the colours look pretty washed out. It manages the 'cheap' part pretty well, but unfortunately, it really looks it. Which is a crying shame seeing as the quality of animation is an aspect of the show that won a lot of praise.

To be fair, though, it's basically only a repackage of the show's previous release, which explains the wonky episode order. It's one of those things that I'm pleased to have... I just wish somebody had done it better.

 

[Buzz201]

It may be a lot of money but it's worth it to protect parents from having to do some research on and/or put some thought into what they might show to their children... I mean, to protect people from deciding for themselves what kind of thing they might want to see... I mean...

Can someone remind me why the BBFC exists again?

To provide an objective and standardised description of the content within a work, ensuring it is restricted to an appropriate age bracket. I understand their fee structure is problematic, and cutting works is clearly problematic, but I've never understood calls to get rid of them or accusations of pointlessness.

Criterion releases are distributed by Sony on both sides of the pond - technically Criterion releases are Sony releases, and Sony submits them to the BBFC. So it's not sublicensing really.

Criterion are owned by Janus Films. It still qualifies as a sublicence,

Not to put too fine a point n it, but Mill Creek's release of Astro Boy looks like ****. 10 epiodes per disc introduces loads of noticeable artifacting, and the colours look pretty washed out. It manages the 'cheap' part pretty well, but unfortunately, it really looks it. Which is a crying shame seeing as the quality of animation is an aspect of the show that won a lot of praise.

To be fair, though, it's basically only a repackage of the show's previous release, which explains the wonky episode order. It's one of those things that I'm pleased to have... I just wish somebody had done it better.

As I said, I think the dub version was a re-cut, so I'm not sure it would look much better without tracking down Japanese masters, which wouldn't work with the dub. (I believe Sony "4Kids'd it".) I think the dub may also be responsible for the misordering of episodes.

 

[Rui]

To provide an objective and standardised description of the content within a work, ensuring it is restricted to an appropriate age bracket. I understand their fee structure is problematic, and cutting works is clearly problematic, but I've never understood calls to get rid of them or accusations of pointlessness.

I would argue that having it opt-in instead of enforced would solve almost every problem with the current BBFC. Unrated films can't be shown for minors, so there would be an incentive for family-friendly releases to get properly certified in order to play in cinemas or on national television, but requiring niche shows to pay many times their projected profit to be certified for an audience with no interest in seeing them in the first place is madness. The BBFC ratings are also not satisfactorily objective IMO (especially with regards to consistency in how sexual content is categorised).

I don't think that the original B&W Astro Boy, for example, would be greatly harmed by being effectively 18+ (unrated) under an opt-in model where the cost of rating couldn't be justified. Young people aren't going to be the ones buying it anyway, and those who really like it can always persuade their parents to watch a few episodes and exercise parental judgement as most families already do. Likewise - and more topically - content like Samurai Flamenco isn't especially kid-friendly either, so I don't think it being unrated would significantly hurt its sales. Certainly not more so than it being completely unreleasable due to the stifling cost of the unnecessary certification.

R

 

[Buzz201]

I would argue that having it opt-in instead of enforced would solve almost every problem with the current BBFC. Unrated films can't be shown for minors, so there would be an incentive for family-friendly releases to get properly certified in order to play in cinemas or on national television, but requiring niche shows to pay many times their projected profit to be certified for an audience with no interest in seeing them in the first place is madness. The BBFC ratings are also not satisfactorily objective IMO (especially with regards to consistency in how sexual content is categorised).

I don't think that the original B&W Astro Boy, for example, would be greatly harmed by being effectively 18+ (unrated) under an opt-in model where the cost of rating couldn't be justified. Young people aren't going to be the ones buying it anyway, and those who really like it can always persuade their parents to watch a few episodes and exercise parental judgement as most families already do.

R

I can understand why they haven't done this, even if the logic is a little fuzzy. If they allow unrated works to be restricted 18+, they're inviting people like Monster Pictures to bypass the BBFC with "The Human Centipede 8", a film which could quite feasibly breach the Obscene Publications Act. Rightly or wrong, the BBFC have become the enforcers of the OPA for films, and allowing people to bypass that could mean that "obscene" content gets seen by the public before anybody has a chance to stop it, as it would then have to go to court to be declared obscene.

Obviously, the internet has all of these things on, and people that want to can still find them, but the BBFC cutting something probably takes out a substantial amount of people that might be exposed to it. That said, then you get into the whole moral debate of whether any work can really be "obscene" enough to be banned, which I'm personally torn on. (I don't like the idea of any expression being banned, but at the same I also think the world would be a better place if people weren't shown things like The Human Centipede 2.)

 

[Rui]

I can understand why they haven't done this, even if the logic is a little fuzzy. If they allow unrated works to be restricted 18+, they're inviting people like Monster Pictures to bypass the BBFC with "The Human Centipede 8", a film which could quite feasibly breach the Obscene Publications Act. Rightly or wrong, the BBFC have become the enforcers of the OBA, and allow people to bypass that could me that "obscene" content gets seen by the public before anybody has a chance to stop it, as it would then have to go to court to be declared obscene.

Obviously, the internet has all of these things on, and people that want to can still find them, but the BBFC cutting something probably takes out a substantial amount of people that might be exposed to it. That said, then you get into the whole moral debate of whether any work can really be "obscene" enough to be banned, which I'm personally torn on.

It feels extraordinary to have a process whereby companies have to abide by one law to check for another, and pay for the privilege to do so. And like you say, nothing is stopping anyone releasing The Human Centipede 8 online - even if the BBFC fully extends its reach there one day (I sincererely hope not!) the current generation of kids know full well how to break through region locks by the age of ten.

Preemptively banning seems like abuse of the OPA when a far better system would be for a publisher to voluntarily submit anything it considered borderline for an official certificate rather than risking retrospective lawsuits (or to go ahead and risk them, if they wanted to challenge the rules). I find the whole setup extremely silly, especially when the US has optional ratings for video and it's far more conservative than the UK in many respects.

R

 

[Buzz201]

It feels extraordinary to have a process whereby companies have to abide by one law to check for another, and pay for the privilege to do so. And like you say, nothing is stopping anyone releasing The Human Centipede 8 online - even if the BBFC fully extends its reach there one day (I sincererely hope not!) the current generation of kids know full well how to break through region locks by the age of ten.

Preemptively banning seems like abuse of the OPA when a far better system would be for a publisher to voluntarily submit anything it considered borderline for an official certificate rather than risking retrospective lawsuits (or to go ahead and risk them, if they wanted to challenge the rules). I find the whole setup extremely silly, especially when the US has optional ratings for video and it's far more conservative than the UK in many respects.

R

They don't even have to break through region locks, Monster Pictures themselves made The Human Centipede 2 available for an uncut online stream/download. It surprises me that a larger deal wasn't made of it, but I guess the BBFC decided they wouldn't be able to pull it and would just draw attention to it.

I'd note that people are far more stupid in the US though, you have idiots that took their 4 year old children to see the film adaptation of Watchmen. (If you've never seen it, it's highly violent and features a character who is naked for the majority of his screentime. But it's about superheroes, so it must be for kids!)

 

[Rui]

I can just see them failing to realise young people are more resourceful than they think and trying to put a fence around the UK Internet to protect us one day...

I'd note that people are far more stupid in the US though, you have idiots that took their 4 year old children to see the film adaptation of Watchmen. (If you've never seen it, it's highly violent and features a character who is naked for the majority of his screentime. But it's about superheroes, so it must be for kids!)

To be fair I doubt any kids were harmed by seeing Watchmen at that age. I've only read the comic version but if I'd seen it as a kid I'd have been more bored than mentally scarred - gritty violence and sexual undertones are way less interesting than explosions and lightsabers. My mum used to watch things like The Godfather and Naked Gun around me (raising Rui was hard work!) and I found the violent/raunchy bits dull and baffling without giving any of them a second thought. It was also trendy for the more relaxed families at my school to have sleepovers where all of the young teens watched 18+ horror films and had nightmares for weeks afterwards. Yet the kids of today can't gather together and watch a black and white family animation because the cost of verifying it's not obscene would be too high. A ridiculous situation. Legal adults should be allowed to make these choices for themselves and their children.

I'd be more worried about US parents' habits of leaving loaded firearms around their kids of tender age; that leads to outcomes far more likely to cause lasting emotional damage than Doctor Manhattan's blue butt ever could.

R

 

[Buzz201]

To be fair I doubt any kids were harmed by seeing Watchmen at that age. I've only read the comic version but if I'd seen it as a kid I'd have been more bored than mentally scarred - gritty violence and sexual undertones are way less interesting than explosions and lightsabers. My mum used to watch things like The Godfather and Naked Gun around me (raising Rui was hard work!) and I found the violent/raunchy bits dull and baffling without giving any of them a second thought. It was also trendy for the more relaxed families at my school to have sleepovers where all of the young teens watched 18+ horror films and had nightmares for weeks afterwards. Yet the kids of today can't gather together and watch a black and white family animation because the cost of verifying it's not obscene would be too high. A ridiculous situation. Legal adults should be allowed to make these choices for themselves and their children.

I'd be more worried about US parents' habits of leaving loaded firearms around their kids of tender age; that leads to outcomes far more likely to cause lasting emotional damage than Doctor Manhattan's blue butt ever could.

R

There's a grim sequence that even I struggle to sit through, which was altered from the comics, where Rorschach tracks down a suspect, who is vaguely implied to be paedophile, and enters his home finding some meat cleaves and an aggressive dog, who is chewing a young girls' clothes. The man then returns, being killed by Rorschach who puts one of the man's own meat cleavers through his head (the insertion, removal and everything in between with the cleaver are on camera) whilst he begs for mercy screaming but a lot of it is only implied so it would probably go over a 4 year old's head.

It's also excessively long and the theatrical cut doesn't make much sense (my favourite being the 3 hour 35 minute long Ultimate Cut that never got a UK release).