UK Anime Distributor Anime Limited Discussion Thread
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thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Though AL could make it collectors for £40 for have the OVA so 2 sets for £80 they wouldn't be cheap but people would think there "expensive"
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Well when the US DVDs are are £70 without shipping etc so a CE of the BRs are cheap people just look at the face value and never compare the price like are £100 GL is expensive by some but the US set is double
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
thedoctor2016 said:
You clearly missed the general rage directed at Aniplex of America, Aniplex and/or A-1 Pictures every time they do anything. I don't even understand why, I've yet to see an A-1 show that looks outright bad (then again I did skip that Otaku Teacher BS)...
You might also note that a lot of Americans have seen AL's cheap, high quality releases and started importing, which is probably why Aniplex have started imposing more stringent restrictions.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Of course I've not my head under a rock i get the hate at AoA but AL gets the exact same hate like someone was hating there SAO release on twitter a few days ago and our £80 in total is more affordable than the AoA one
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
£80 is still ludicrous for a 24.5 episode TV series. I know it's not a fair comparison, and I know you'll have a go at me for making it, but most consumers don't really care about the behind the scenes BS, they just want the show for a reasonable price. When you can buy 63 hours of Fringe for £50, or 88 hours of Friends for £57, both with hours of bonus features, £80 for 10 hours and a few booklets you're scared to look at for fear of damaging them is nothing short of a pisstake.
I know people will point out how unfair that comparison is and how unreasonable I'm being, and I know there's not a lot AL can do about it (this isn't really intended as having a go at them) but most consumers don't see anime as any different to any other medium, so why would they expect to pay any more for it?
That's partly why I was amazed they'd managed to get Tokyo Ghoul down to £25 within 2 months of release.
I know people will point out how unfair that comparison is and how unreasonable I'm being, and I know there's not a lot AL can do about it (this isn't really intended as having a go at them) but most consumers don't see anime as any different to any other medium, so why would they expect to pay any more for it?
That's partly why I was amazed they'd managed to get Tokyo Ghoul down to £25 within 2 months of release.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Casual viewers aren't really AL market they go for collectors and fans
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
thedoctor2016 said:
Sword Art Online has huge casual appeal, which is probably why AL brought it. Hence why the casuals are upset about the pricing strategy, you may think they're being unreasonable, I'm less inclined to agree, but it's irrelevant since neither of us can do anything.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
They release standard editions and SAO was many peoples first AL purchase so it was a wise choice like it they got AOT 2 somehow or even the films like there french counterpart (anime films)
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
thedoctor2016 said:
SAO's standard editions won't be out for years. Andrew has basically said as much. He said earlier on in the thread that he'd upped the print run of the collector's to cater for that.
FUNimation already has US rights for AoT season 2, so I'm guessing they have UK rights to it as well. I probably wouldn't buy a collector's edition from AL, because I'm not made of money and I don't like the show that much, but I'm sure plenty would, and who am I to begrudge them it...
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
Ha ah but animatsu have the live action rights which FUNi also have so i don't know how it works really
Buzz201 said:
You just reminded me of the time where Attack on Titan was originally going to be released as a Region A|B|1|2|4 until they changed it at the last minute (I know for a fact because the first print run of the Limited Edition even has those regions on the back). That change is probably due to Manga UK and their insulting release 3 months later.
Also no one has the rights to Season 2. Sure we know it's happening but I don't hear anyone confirming the rights as of yet. You are right on the fact that Funimation will definitely get UK rights alongside it (and knowing everyone Anime Ltd will take care of Season 2 over here now that Manga UK is very unlikely to handle it).
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
NormanicGrav said:
`That is interesting as i would probably got the US release then though now i want the French release
Strat
Great Teacher
So.. to you, Buzz, £25 for one cour of Tokyo Ghoul is great but AL's claim that £90 for FMP is good value is outright laughable? Yeah I saw that part before you edited it out, sorry. FMP being four cours long, its value beats that of Tokyo Ghoul even without taking the fact that one is a CE and the other a SE into account.
Heck, it was available for £70 during a whole week on Zavvi, that's actually a lower price (per cour) than your average one cour standard Blu-ray release these days in the UK.
AL get a lot of hate for their prices, most of which I don't really understand. The 'real' prices for their standard editions (not MSRP, mind you) seem on par with the rest of the UK market. Hating on Collector's editions because you're not interested in them or that specific show, or even because you can't afford them, is kind of silly. As long as there are plans for a standard edition, that is. If there aren't any, I'm 100% sympathetic to the cause.
Now saying anime itself is expensive is legitimate, but it has nothing to do with AL.
Heck, it was available for £70 during a whole week on Zavvi, that's actually a lower price (per cour) than your average one cour standard Blu-ray release these days in the UK.
AL get a lot of hate for their prices, most of which I don't really understand. The 'real' prices for their standard editions (not MSRP, mind you) seem on par with the rest of the UK market. Hating on Collector's editions because you're not interested in them or that specific show, or even because you can't afford them, is kind of silly. As long as there are plans for a standard edition, that is. If there aren't any, I'm 100% sympathetic to the cause.
Now saying anime itself is expensive is legitimate, but it has nothing to do with AL.
HdE
Comic Book Guy
BlackStrat said:
I would lean in favour of saying this is pretty much right - although I do think people should be able to come here with and voice concerns about price without being accused of 'hating on' distributors. It's a legit discussion, after all.
Hating on a distributor is when you loudly or irrationally boycott their products, trash them at every available opportunity or attempt to actively dissuade others from buying their product (at least, that's my definition.)
I'd like to think that, by example, when I voice concerns about prices, it could be viewed as being a separate concern apart from the quality of any given distro's products and the hard work they put it in to bring it to UK shores.
Rule of consumerism: a product's worth is very often defined by the consumers themselves. So really, debating whether show X is worth as much as show Y if price points or presentation differ isn't an especially effective or persuasive line of reasoning. As I understand it, the factors that dictate RRP can differ greatly from one show to the next.
All I'm saying here is: cool heads, people. Let's not be trying to dictate to each other that our opinions on such things are invalid.
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
BlackStrat said:
The Tokyo Ghoul price is great for an anime release, but is it good value for money compared to a normal release, not really. The FMP price was in comparison to a general US or UK series release, the two comparisons were unconnected, but I see your point about FMP being better value and you are correct.
I will however say that I personally think there's a difference between asking somebody to fork over £26 for a series that's only a year old, probably native HD (I don't know what resolution Pierrot work at), was simulcast and has been streaming on Netflix and is the only opportunity to see it fully uncensored, and asking somebody to gamble £70-90 on a series that is 9-13 years old, is for the most part not native HD, is not streaming in full, and then telling them they won't be able to get "the second season" (AL's wording, they actually mean Fumoffu) if they don't get the CE. Although, as HdE said, that's not really a persuasive argument.
If I was a fan of FMP, I'm sure that price would be fair, but when the title was first announced I don't think it was streaming (and Fumoffu still isn't), so of course people were put off by the £100+ price tag, because there was (and arguably still is) a huge element of gamble in it.
As I said in another post, this wasn't intended as having a go at AL, I'm fairly confident they set the MSRPs as low as they can. It is an industry wide thing. As for why AL get called out for their prices more than other companies, I don't know but I'd guess it's because AL are the only company to release CEs before and at much higher prices than their SEs, and they generally won't release SEs until the CE is almost gone (which, to be fair is just good business).
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
I expect you don't believe 0079 is worth £80 then as its a 1979 series no where near HD Though it has been remastered
It's difficult because there are two different angles; that of the distributor and that of the buyer. The distributor has to work with the actual realities of production and sales, whereas the buyer is entirely motivated by their personal situation. One person might think that £10 for Ouran is a massive rip off then spend £70 on a single episode of Gundam Origin, another might refuse to buy anything over £8 even if it means having to watch terrible shounen fighting shows and nothing else, and yet another might be spending hundreds importing the Japanese releases of Madoka Magica because the Manga UK version has an ugly typo on the box. There's absolutely no consensus when ultimately the question of what any given release is worth is down to each individual's personal feelings about how much they want to own it when they have other bills to pay.
Like-for-like comparisons don't really work when the products are so dissimilar; so what if I could buy 10 hours of Friends for every 2 minutes of Gundam Origin? I'd still pick the latter even if Friends was free because I don't want to watch Friends. So what if oranges are currently on sale at Tesco? I'd still pay extra for an apple because I don't want an orange right now. Some people are always going to try comparing the latest megahit television comedy show with a niche Japanese cartoon in a foreign language; they're entitled to think that's logical and I'm entitled to think that they're bonkers.
We often hear people complaining (er I mean, politely and firmly suggesting) that a bunch of older titles have been 'forgotten' by the industry, or that people don't value older titles, yet whenever something a few years old is licensed people seem to expect it to be made available for less than the price of something new which is probably going to outsell it 3:1 purely based on recent fan buzz. When in fact, it's more likely to be niche and forced to command a relatively high price to make up for the lower interest.
So many people really don't value older titles. If the hardcore fans aren't interested in paying a fair price for anything that was made before 2013, then that will be reflected out in the sales figures and we can eventually kiss any classic anime releases goodbye. In Japan, older titles are often revived and rereleased on new formats but there's more understanding and support for them out there. There's so much anime out there that a normal buyer will only pick up their absolutely favourites, and whether it's old or new has very little relevance in that purchasing decision. Especially since old titles still get shiny new box art and goodies for their rereleases rather than being chucked into an Amaray case and left to fend for themselves in a crowded market.
In the US (and a number of European/South American countries) the older series have a specific niche to fit into and budget sets work. They can never replicate that model over here because if a shiny new series struggles to get people opening their wallets then a grainy show from 30 years ago is going to have a hard time competing. People expect older stuff to be cheap, which works if there's an established nostalgia market for it to give it sales figures that will justify setting a lower price. In the UK there's pretty much nobody who is nostalgic for older anime titles yet doesn't already have a copy, so older titles have to be able to stand on their own merits if they want to make back their costs. That's probably why AL are trying these special editions out for them in the first place, to see whether the vocal fanbase can support series which might not otherwise get a second chance to attract an audience.
But FMP, despite being older, isn't a 'classic' yet. It's still relevant (with more being made!) and it hasn't really become dated like some of the titles I fondly remember from earlier in my anime collecting life. Treating it as a modern series with a special edition and capitalising on the enduring popularity it still enjoys over here (Sousuke is a beloved character for many AUKNers) seems reasonable. The lack of a stream is awkward but honestly, as someone who doesn't have Netflix (nobody in my household wants anything it shows) Tokyo Ghoul is equally inaccessible. The bump from the new series alone might well stimulate enough interest to make those FMP CEs become rare collectibles much more quickly than usual; the prices for even the most common volumes of the old JoJo's DVDs shot up after the new anime adaptation became popular, after all.
Having rambled this far, I do hope that Fumoffu will eventually be rereleased here for the sake of those who haven't been able to add it to their collections yet.
R, who is not especially into FMP
Like-for-like comparisons don't really work when the products are so dissimilar; so what if I could buy 10 hours of Friends for every 2 minutes of Gundam Origin? I'd still pick the latter even if Friends was free because I don't want to watch Friends. So what if oranges are currently on sale at Tesco? I'd still pay extra for an apple because I don't want an orange right now. Some people are always going to try comparing the latest megahit television comedy show with a niche Japanese cartoon in a foreign language; they're entitled to think that's logical and I'm entitled to think that they're bonkers.
We often hear people complaining (er I mean, politely and firmly suggesting) that a bunch of older titles have been 'forgotten' by the industry, or that people don't value older titles, yet whenever something a few years old is licensed people seem to expect it to be made available for less than the price of something new which is probably going to outsell it 3:1 purely based on recent fan buzz. When in fact, it's more likely to be niche and forced to command a relatively high price to make up for the lower interest.
So many people really don't value older titles. If the hardcore fans aren't interested in paying a fair price for anything that was made before 2013, then that will be reflected out in the sales figures and we can eventually kiss any classic anime releases goodbye. In Japan, older titles are often revived and rereleased on new formats but there's more understanding and support for them out there. There's so much anime out there that a normal buyer will only pick up their absolutely favourites, and whether it's old or new has very little relevance in that purchasing decision. Especially since old titles still get shiny new box art and goodies for their rereleases rather than being chucked into an Amaray case and left to fend for themselves in a crowded market.
In the US (and a number of European/South American countries) the older series have a specific niche to fit into and budget sets work. They can never replicate that model over here because if a shiny new series struggles to get people opening their wallets then a grainy show from 30 years ago is going to have a hard time competing. People expect older stuff to be cheap, which works if there's an established nostalgia market for it to give it sales figures that will justify setting a lower price. In the UK there's pretty much nobody who is nostalgic for older anime titles yet doesn't already have a copy, so older titles have to be able to stand on their own merits if they want to make back their costs. That's probably why AL are trying these special editions out for them in the first place, to see whether the vocal fanbase can support series which might not otherwise get a second chance to attract an audience.
But FMP, despite being older, isn't a 'classic' yet. It's still relevant (with more being made!) and it hasn't really become dated like some of the titles I fondly remember from earlier in my anime collecting life. Treating it as a modern series with a special edition and capitalising on the enduring popularity it still enjoys over here (Sousuke is a beloved character for many AUKNers) seems reasonable. The lack of a stream is awkward but honestly, as someone who doesn't have Netflix (nobody in my household wants anything it shows) Tokyo Ghoul is equally inaccessible. The bump from the new series alone might well stimulate enough interest to make those FMP CEs become rare collectibles much more quickly than usual; the prices for even the most common volumes of the old JoJo's DVDs shot up after the new anime adaptation became popular, after all.
Having rambled this far, I do hope that Fumoffu will eventually be rereleased here for the sake of those who haven't been able to add it to their collections yet.
R, who is not especially into FMP
Strat
Great Teacher
To be fair, the only part that was aimed at Buzz was the FMP part, not the hate one. The latter was more of a general rant and not directed at anyone here, because people voicing their opinions on the forums tend to be reasonable, apart from one or two trolls that create an account over here just to be insulting.HdE said:
Yes, and I'm sure you know people who boycott AL's products. I believe you even said something about that a while back, though I could be wrong. My question is, do they boycott Manga and MVM too? I'm sure some people were outraged when they saw the price point on Gurren Lagann's UE, but the truth is, you can now buy the standard edition for £22-£38, depending on where you buy it. Cowboy Bebop for £23-£39. Durarara for £22-£45. Again, I'm not sayin that's cheap, but it seems to me that it's within the UK industry standard prices for anime on Blu-ray.HdE said:
HdE said:
Yes I very much agree with this. I was voluntarily only looking at it from a runtime point, but the truth is I don't think I'd take the plunge if I knew nothing about the show. Well I already own the French version so I won't be buying it anyway, but the point still stands. Then again, I don't think the Ultimate Edition is meant for people to discover the show.Buzz201 said:
No he's right, FMP is kind of in the bad period as far as HD anime goes. But anything before the digital SD era should be fine (unless they f*ck up). As for the price, well, it's 43 (42) episodes long (a bit under four cours), so it seems reasonable to me (plus you could easily get it for £35-£40 per part). The box and booklet certainly help that, and if they didn't exist this would definitely be on the higher end of prices. Though by the time they run out I guess the price will have dropped.thedoctor2016 said:
Again, this was not meant as an attack on anyone here, so I'm sorry if it came across as such