IncendiaryLemon
Captain Karen
Opinions can't be wrong, by their very definition.
So basically, I'm too thick to get it? Brilliant...
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Opinions can't be wrong, by their very definition.
So basically, I'm too thick to get it? Brilliant...
Buzz201
Mad Scientist
That doesn't invalidate any of my other points, which you conveniently skipped over.
That's not even vaguely close to what I said...
And similar things have been suggested of me in the past, so I definitely don't think that.
No, I'm simply saying Buzz's is rational. You're acting like all of the YOI fans have experienced some kind of mass hallucination and believe the show to be much better than it objectively is even though the weight of numbers would seem to be against you (you can say that fans of BL/ice skating/whatever might be biased but a lot of people outside these categories are speaking up too at this point). I'm saying it's the other way around; the YOI fans are generally being quite level-headed about it - even on places like Tumblr where biases might be a lot stronger than they are on average. Buzz is liking the show even though he's got some reservations about it. Ian raved positively about the show but remarked on some things he'd like to see improve in his review. I love it to bits but want it to go further and am perfectly comfortable saying that it's pushing the limitations of its budget at times during the ambitious action scenes. None of us are freaking out and saying 10/10 best show ever; we just like it and want to support it against the disproportionate criticism it seems to attract. Not liking it is fine and natural. Declaring it to be unfunny, boring and lame is abrasive. Of course fans will try to defend it against that kind of criticism.
My partner is way, way outside of the target audience of YOI and he finds it funny, engaging and charming, and terrifying each time they do a jump in the skating segments. He laughs out loud at the gags. I assure you that he has no secret BL leanings or sport obsession.
I'll tell you a story about myself. I don't like Puella Magi Madoka Magica all that much. To me, the cuteness is grating, the darkness is artificial, the characters are shallow, pandering moe bait, their problems are annoying and the opening theme sounds like nails scraping along a blackboard. I bought the LEs, watched the whole thing then went on to buy the movies too and watched those, so I think I gave it a reasonable chance to impress me. I don't go around saying this every time anyone praises the show because these are just my opinions and nobody particularly wants to hear them. And no matter how little I could relate to Homura, Madoka and friends, the show is objectively high quality and well made. I completely accept that PMMM is acclaimed for what it's done and for a lot of people, it was their very first exposure to a darker type of magical girl show and squarely blew their socks off. And you know, not only am I happy for them, I'm glad it did that because everyone deserves to have a special show which changed the way they viewed anime and the world around them. I'm delighted that PMMM exists and, even though it's not for me I hope more shows like that continue to come along and connect with people who are not me. The fact that everyone else praises it over and over and over again doesn't make my enjoyment of the shows I actually like any lesser, so I don't really see why there's any need to go around raining on other peoples' parades every time someone discovers it for the first time and raves about it in a review. If PMMM existing somehow deleted Shoujo Kakumei Utena from my library we would have a problem, except it doesn't, so why does it matter that some people like the show I don't more than the show I do?
(Tempted to pull all of the YOI debates into one big YOI megathread at this point...)
R
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IncendiaryLemon
Captain Karen
I skipped over them because I don't know what you want me to say. You think they're good, I don't. What do you want me to add?
You did seem to directly imply that I lack the mental function to process something more subtle than a brick to the face. Whether or not that was your intention, I don't know, but that's how I read it.
I generally don't visit any other anime places on the net other than here, but as far as I can tell, me, @Jaysgba and Andy Simpson from Twitter seem to be the only people who dislike it, compared to literally everyone one showering it in praise. I wouldn't exactly call it disproportionate, at least from what I've seen, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume a lot of people give it flack.
So if I don't like it, I shouldn't critique it? I call it unfunny, boring and lame because that's my opinion of the show, however abrasive that may be, I have as much right as anyone to express my thoughts on the series.
I'm not saying I think it's totally impossible for someone not to like BL or Ice Skating to enjoy it, I just don't understand why.
Objectively speaking, I'm not saying that YOI isn't a well produced show. Even in my review when I pretty much slated it, I at least gave credit to the good looking animation, music and voice acting. It's the everything else that's the problem.
If you think it was my intent to rain on people's parades, so to speak, you're mistaken. If people enjoy YOI, more power to them, I wouldn't want it taken away from them. I'm many things, but I like to think I'm not selfish to such a degree. My response to @Buzz201 was more the fact that I (mistakenly or not, perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick) thought Buzz was trying to say that the only reason anyone wouldn't enjoy the series is purely because they're homophobic, which I replied to with some criticism I had which had nothing to do with that element of the show. That's all. It's not my intention to go around making feel bad for liking it or saying it shouldn't exist or whatever.
Why are you so defensive about it, though? In this particular case, all Buzz said was that he doesn't get why some people have such a big problem with the show (which is the direct mirror image version of you saying you don't understand why people like it) then proposed a theory that it was because of certain biases about a part of the show which are not even necessary (you can enjoy the skating and drama without being into same-sex stuff). He's not making this up; there are anime fans out there overtly calling it 'too gay' - I specifically used this wording in a previous debate here as I'd heard it thrown around, and this was long before Buzz even saw the show so I'm certainly not conspiring with him.
You keep mentioning that you're worried you got the wrong end of the stick or possibly reading too much into things, which is good, but why are you so touchy about this? You weren't called out in this particular case and there's no reason to think that you were the minority in question. If you're not bothered by the same-sex elements in the slightest, stand proud and stick with your opinions; you know you're not the minority Buzz was calling out. If someone posted a rant about some people who didn't like PMMM being homophobic (which could probably be argued convincingly since there are a few GL elements in that show!) I wouldn't feel as though it was about me because I know I like GL and my issues with the series have nothing to do with any dislike of lesbians.
The debate is going in circles because slamming any suggestion of the show being good/bad with absolute denials makes it difficult to answer the question 'why do/don't people like YOI other than because they irrationally love/hate same-sex romance?', just as screaming 'you hate gays!' shuts down the debate from the other direction. I think Buzz is open to a proper conversation about it, and even if he isn't then Ian has written a massive review with his reasons for liking it and I know that I've babbled on for hours. We all find it funny. My non-BL-fan partner finds it funny. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that people can find it funny. Why you don't personally find it funny is interesting, and I think it hinges on how you're relating to the characters and the way their emotions are coming across. Why don't we talk about that more deeply?
R
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable (Japanese audio) - Episode 35
And another one gone and another one gone (spoilers)
And another one gone and another one gone (spoilers)
IncendiaryLemon
Captain Karen
I guess as the only one around here that openly dislike the series, I can't help but feel as if any criticism of people who don't like the series is slighted at me, who is so very open in criticising the series. A few months ago when said I had no interest in watching Free!, I also garnered some responses that in a roundabout way seemed to insinuate that I was homophobic. Granted, I did write it off as fujo bait sports show, but me not watching it had nothing to do with the sexualities of the characters or anything like that, I just thought it was going to be nothing but fanservice, and fan service I was very much not the audience for at that. However, despite my rather sound reasoning, I can't help but feel as if some people did, and might still, perceive me as homophobic. So, when I'm once again in the precarious position of having a controversial opinion about a show that has homosexual elements (although after actually watching Free! I came to the realisation that it didn't,but I think you get my point) I do really feel the need to stress the fact over and over again I have issues that aren't related to the genders of the characters in love. I don't want to be labelled as homophobic, as that's an awful label to have.
In regards to the comedy, I couldn't tell you exactly why I don't like it. The jokes are there and they don't get a reaction out of me, I'm not sure I could give you any deeper analysis to why I don't find them funny. Comedy is probably the most subjective element of any series, senses of humour are broad and vary massively from person to person. I'm sure the cute girl antics of Yuyushiki, Azumanga Daioh or Kiniro Mosaic that have me in stitches would probably bore the life out of a lot of people just as much as Yuri on Ice bores me. Me saying the comedy isn't funny is probably quite wrong. Saying I don't think is funny is far more accurate.
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thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
I said I didn't find Nichijou funny and got my head bitten off.
For what it's worth, as someone who hasn't bothered watching the show at all, I understand where you're coming from, in that it is easy to read the counter arguments and think "other people are getting so much out of this - if I'm not loving it, does it make me a bigot?" but really I think you've just got to be cool and not let it bother you. If you know that the gender of the characters wasn't your problem with the show and you've said as much, then just let it go and watch something you do enjoy instead. Admittedly I probably didn't read the Free chat, but AUKN is a pretty friendly place - I'm sure no-one would seek to tar you with that brush just for saying you didn't enjoy something popular.
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Buzz201
Mad Scientist
Yuri!!! on ICE - Episode 07
I'm disappointed in this episode. For the first time they felt the need to cut away from skating sequence and show what it represented. This doesn't work for me and makes me feel like they were not at all confident in the sequence. Some of the movement, notably during Phichit's post-skate interview, seems a tad jumpy. I can't tell if that's a deliberate editing thing or just poor animation, but if it's the later I hope it gets sorted for home video.
It's a shame because the off-rink stuff is great and that car park scene is brutal (in a good way). Perhaps the show's worst episode so far, but the car park scene is for me, amongst it's better moments. I really hope it regains it's confidence in the skating sequences, as the skittishness and nervousness of this episode really shines through.
Also, if Christophe could stop talking about his potential ejaculation, that would be fantastic. Those couples of lines are gross and completely out of keeping with the rest of the show. (I wonder if maybe they're just poor translations?)
I should probably chip in and say, that I when I wrote that original line, I really wasn't thinking of @IncendiaryLemon, and obviously I didn't mean to imply that everyone who disliked the show was homophobic.
For what it's worth, I don't think anybody seriously believes Lemon is completely homophobic.
I'm disappointed in this episode. For the first time they felt the need to cut away from skating sequence and show what it represented. This doesn't work for me and makes me feel like they were not at all confident in the sequence. Some of the movement, notably during Phichit's post-skate interview, seems a tad jumpy. I can't tell if that's a deliberate editing thing or just poor animation, but if it's the later I hope it gets sorted for home video.
It's a shame because the off-rink stuff is great and that car park scene is brutal (in a good way). Perhaps the show's worst episode so far, but the car park scene is for me, amongst it's better moments. I really hope it regains it's confidence in the skating sequences, as the skittishness and nervousness of this episode really shines through.
Also, if Christophe could stop talking about his potential ejaculation, that would be fantastic. Those couples of lines are gross and completely out of keeping with the rest of the show. (I wonder if maybe they're just poor translations?)
I should probably chip in and say, that I when I wrote that original line, I really wasn't thinking of @IncendiaryLemon, and obviously I didn't mean to imply that everyone who disliked the show was homophobic.
For what it's worth, I don't think anybody seriously believes Lemon is completely homophobic.
Lutga
Mad Scientist
I have to admit, while I'm still really enjoying Yuri On Ice - I think it owes it to itself to hopefully be more than just the same rinse and repeat formula every episode it's been doing lately. I get that it's a sports show to some degree, but while the skating animation is strong, it's sticking to this formula so religiously that the last few episodes have been pretty interchangeable. It'd be nice to have more of a mix, like the early episodes did.
I see; I hadn't appreciated that you were feeling personally attacked and that makes sense. For what it's worth, even though I'm not active on other anime sites I feel I've been exposed to an awful lot of anti-gay rhetoric over this show (and pretty much any show with a non-heterosexual male romance, actually) so believe me, the people we are digging at are being a heck of a lot less subtle about pushing their homophobic agenda than saying 'I tried to like it but didn't at all'.
As I said before, I think the fact that you're engaging and trying to understand puts you a level well above the people who are just writing the series off based on a single screenshot or using it to undermine fans of different orientations to themselves. I do privately think there's a serious problem in fandom (not with you!) - if not with society on the whole - where a sports series with a same-sex romance is treated as something only fujoshi (why are we abbreviating this term lately?) or LGBTQ+ fans can enjoy, while a sports series with a heterosexual romance would be a sports series for everyone, but I don't think anyone on AUKN is being deliberately or actively homophobic. If they were, I'd be coming down on them very heavily and without a single trace of subtlety!
R
Otaku-san
Chuunibyou
Hooh boy Sazuka, now there's a droll sports anime if ever I saw one. As for YoI, its' a sport, or any sport for that matter, that I care little for and sexual orientation of characters is something I don't actively look for. Even though I havn't seen it, or have yet to since others harp on about it. I get the feeling from reading these posts of others outlandish comments is from a state of shock.
IncendiaryLemon
Captain Karen
Tokyo Magnitude 8.0-Episodes 10 and 11 (Complete)
Since it would be nigh impossible to talk about these last two episodes without revealing the entire ending, my thoughts will pretty much be 100% spoilers.
Overall, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 is a fantastic series, and certainly one I'd recommend to people. I'd probably go as far to call it somewhat of a hidden gem. I'd never heard of it until TRSI had it on sale, and I've not heard of anyone talking about it since then either, and I assume it sold poorly too given TRSI were selling it for peanuts. With some brilliant characters, a story that will almost certainly drive you to tears and some excellent set piece moments courtesy of Bones' great animation, I can't hope but feel as if more people should give this one a whirl. Unfortunately, I can't actually see anywhere it's streaming in the UK (It's on Hulu in the US) and it was also never picked up for release in the UK, so it would probably pretty difficult for most folks to see, which is pretty sad.
Gungrave-Episodes 1 and 2
Wow, finally getting to watching Gungrave. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe Gungrave is the title I've had longest without watching. In fact, I think it was the first anime I ever purchased from this very forum, from @DragonBlaze67, if I recall, and I've easily had it a year and a half, if not more. No real reason for not watching it for ages, just never got around to it. This is why I like using a randomiser to pick my anime for me, I have so much stuff, I'd never be able to decide and I'd never end up watching some things. Anyway...
I quite like what I've seen so far. If I had to choose, I think I prefered Episode 1, with the weird alien/robot things as I thought the action there was sublime, but from what I can gather, that first episode is a lot like 1997 Bererk's first episode, so I don't suspect a return to that story is on the cards. Still, episode 2 was alright, and it's still early days yet. The only odd thing is that Brandon doesn't really talk, and I'm not sure what the point of that is. Is it supposed to make use think he's cool? Is it supposed to be funny? I have no idea. If they can actually back it up with a sensible reason, perhaps I'll accept it, but for now it's just a bit weird.
Since it would be nigh impossible to talk about these last two episodes without revealing the entire ending, my thoughts will pretty much be 100% spoilers.
So, the reveal in the penultimate episode that Yuuki was actually dead from around the halfway point was actually a really clever twist, and one I loved. I did complain before about how there were too many death fakes outs, but this is pretty much nullified now I know that those Yuuki death scenes weren't fake at all, and that the Yuuki we've been seeing has just been there as a coping mechanism for Mirai. That being said though, I did have issues with how the twist was executed. Whilst I'd have never have guessed that twist up until episode 10, the very first scene from that episode was about as subtle as a brick to the face, and I called the twist as soon as that scene was over, despite the fact that the actual reveal wasn't until the very last scene of the episode. This took away a lot of the emotional impact I think the reveal could have had at the end. If I'd actually been hit with a gut punch like that, I might have actually cried. Honestly, they should have just carried on as if it was totally normal, rather than have Yuuki talk about death and doing the whole disappearing thing, and have Mirai try and introduce Yuuki to someone, only for them to tell her he isn't there, which is when she has the flashbacks to his death. All that aside though, the final episode actually did have me on the brink of tears multiple times. Mirai's goodbye to Yuuki, her reuniting with her mother, the family remembering Yuuki and all crying in the hospital and Mirai giving her mother the gift Yuuki picked all really brought a tear to my eye, which is quite a rarity for any kind of media really, and all of these moments were really nailed.
Overall, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 is a fantastic series, and certainly one I'd recommend to people. I'd probably go as far to call it somewhat of a hidden gem. I'd never heard of it until TRSI had it on sale, and I've not heard of anyone talking about it since then either, and I assume it sold poorly too given TRSI were selling it for peanuts. With some brilliant characters, a story that will almost certainly drive you to tears and some excellent set piece moments courtesy of Bones' great animation, I can't hope but feel as if more people should give this one a whirl. Unfortunately, I can't actually see anywhere it's streaming in the UK (It's on Hulu in the US) and it was also never picked up for release in the UK, so it would probably pretty difficult for most folks to see, which is pretty sad.
Gungrave-Episodes 1 and 2
Wow, finally getting to watching Gungrave. I'm not 100% certain, but I believe Gungrave is the title I've had longest without watching. In fact, I think it was the first anime I ever purchased from this very forum, from @DragonBlaze67, if I recall, and I've easily had it a year and a half, if not more. No real reason for not watching it for ages, just never got around to it. This is why I like using a randomiser to pick my anime for me, I have so much stuff, I'd never be able to decide and I'd never end up watching some things. Anyway...
I quite like what I've seen so far. If I had to choose, I think I prefered Episode 1, with the weird alien/robot things as I thought the action there was sublime, but from what I can gather, that first episode is a lot like 1997 Bererk's first episode, so I don't suspect a return to that story is on the cards. Still, episode 2 was alright, and it's still early days yet. The only odd thing is that Brandon doesn't really talk, and I'm not sure what the point of that is. Is it supposed to make use think he's cool? Is it supposed to be funny? I have no idea. If they can actually back it up with a sensible reason, perhaps I'll accept it, but for now it's just a bit weird.
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bailey1985
Vampire Ninja
The Great Passage ep 5 - 7
Barakamon ep 10 - 12
Bloodivores ep 9
Bungo Stray Dogs ep 2
Poco's Udon World ep 8
Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blood Orphans ep 34
Barakamon ep 10 - 12
Bloodivores ep 9
Bungo Stray Dogs ep 2
Poco's Udon World ep 8
Mobile Suit Gundam Iron Blood Orphans ep 34
NoSurprises
Hunter
That's because Nichijou is OBJECTIVELY funny!
I kid! I get that fastball/slapstick humour isn't for everyone, I think folks were just having a bit of fun with you in the other thread because it's almost universally loved, apologies if it felt that way. Much like the discussion above, power to you for knowing what you like/dislike!
Occultic;Nine ep8
Curious as to what the deal is with Ryo-tas now. I've thought for a while that there's more to her than meets the eye, purely because she has had next to no character development compared to everyone else, but this ep confirms it: she is not among the dead.
Some guys on one of the other forums floated the idea that she is Zonko, which is an interesting notion. I had noticed before that her ray-gun is reflected in the radio during the op, but I'd never put two and two together.
It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I could see Occultic;Nine becoming a minor cult classic in years to come.
Curious as to what the deal is with Ryo-tas now. I've thought for a while that there's more to her than meets the eye, purely because she has had next to no character development compared to everyone else, but this ep confirms it: she is not among the dead.
Some guys on one of the other forums floated the idea that she is Zonko, which is an interesting notion. I had noticed before that her ray-gun is reflected in the radio during the op, but I'd never put two and two together.
It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I could see Occultic;Nine becoming a minor cult classic in years to come.
Gemsy-chan
Shrine Maiden
Ep 9 of Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans 2nd Season...so Vidar (otherwise known as Gaelio Bauduin has made his appearance in his Gundam Frame of the same name.
Lutga
Mad Scientist
This might be potential spoiler warning, or just me being really confused about what's happened so far / getting characters mixed up, but in Gundam IBO...
What happened to the relationship between the older guy (one of the bishonen prince-type guys) and the young girl he 'befriended' in a slightly creepy manner?