Tottenham riot

[Omaru_SD]

Hawthorne, that sounds terrible.
I watched a 10 minute thing on youtube of the violence escalating and there was some bloke trying to blame the police being 'heavy handed' which pissed me off a great deal. Later in the video they showed McDonalds in Dale end smashed into and Cyber Candy, they interviewed one of the guys in Cex and he was annoyed by the activity too. Since yesterday there seems to have been more vigilance and I can say I didn't feel threatened walking down new street today. Though I understand a lot of the smaller business have boarded up their windows as a safety precaution, rather than the aftermath of an assault and I can't blame them.

My friends were in a similar situation to you on that first night, They had just come out of L.A fitness when gangs of youths had run past, arms full of clothes on hangers.

 

[Rui]

Wow, never noticed we had so many people from Birmingham before!

I agree with the broad message of what Hawthorns is saying, as it's in response to people not understanding why seeing a local area wrecked is shocking. There's a world of difference between a few thugs stealing some burgers and having mates in rougher sides of town, and the savage violence we've seen in some areas recently.

It was the same with the suicide bombings in London a few years ago. You can distance yourself emotionally from simple news reports saying people have been killed or wounded, but actually experiencing the effect on your familiar community can be startling. Especially, I imagine, for people who have grown up here and seen these landmarks every day. For the London bombings I was pretty cool about it for the most part (I'm not a panicky person) but seeing the iconic red London bus blown apart was strangely powerful. This week people I know have lost their homes and livelihoods despite working hard and provoking nobody.

Anyway, my part of London however seemed pretty chilled out today. The police weren't getting people to go home early and normal people were back out on buses/trains, though local shops remained boarded up for protection and I've never seen so many police vans loaded with officers driving around. I hope things settle down everywhere else too, and we don't see a repeat this weekend of the worst of it.

R

 

[Soubi-Hurt]

The goverment are incompetent for not nipping this in the bud while it was at its worst but they aren't the ones who are stealing 1000's of pounds worth of goods every hour.

If the government "generated" £600bn in taxation last year, I make that around £11500 every minute. But that's not stealing because they don't use force or the threat of force to get it, spend it paying off frivolous debts they have stupidly run up or use it to make sure their mates are all looked after (even if they are incompetent idiots who would otherwise be broke and unemployed). Oh no wait, that's exactly what they do.

It's interesting reading people's comments. I guess it depends on how much you care for all this. Not a lot, personally. Not any more. There's the odd thing I like, but the longer I'm around, the more I see, the less sympathy I have for anyone. I'd love to be able to honesty say "You know what guys, you're right. This is awful. Those poor people. They don't deserve this." But I'm afraid that would be a lie.

What a Splendid Post Ayase.
It's true that these savages on the streets smashing things up are just thugs but what about the Labcondems we have, have done far more damage to this country than these selfish brats running riot.

1. Why the capitalisation of the first letters of 'splendid post'? Are you not aware that doing so is foolish?

2. 'Labcondems'? I googled it, and most of the results on page one were about lambskin condoms. You shouldn't try to make up your own terms like that without thinking first.

3. Your use of 'labcondem' to refer to Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives, with your accusation they are damaging the country is intriguing. If you say the Conservatives are damaging the country too, then which party do you support? UKIP? BNP perhaps? A lot of what you say sounds similar to what I recall them putting in their political junk mail.

The politcal party i support would be the UK Independence Party as i sight myself as being a libertarian. (somebody who believes in Freedom, liberty and demcroacy) Ok i lean to the right of the politcal specterm but at least i respect other opinons that i may not agree with and take part in healthy debate.

Also i don't like how you put BNP in bold to try and smeer me just simply becasue my view conflict with yours , as i am nothing like those Xenophobic, natinal socialist thugs that the BNP are. And i find you rather sad and pathetic.

 

[Ark]

The politcal party i support would be the UK Independence Party as i sight myself as being a libertarian. (somebody who believes in Freedom, liberty and demcroacy) Ok i lean to the right of the politcal specterm but at least i respect other opinons that i may not agree with and take part in healthy debate.

Libertarian's don't believe in democracy generally. Democracy implies the existance of a coercive state implementing the will of 51% of the population. That doesn't really fit with the Non-Aggression principle.

 

[memorium]

The goverment are incompetent for not nipping this in the bud while it was at its worst but they aren't the ones who are stealing 1000's of pounds worth of goods every hour.

If the government "generated" £600bn in taxation last year, I make that around £11500 every minute. But that's not stealing because they don't use force or the threat of force to get it, spend it paying off frivolous debts they have stupidly run up or use it to make sure their mates are all looked after (even if they are incompetent idiots who would otherwise be broke and unemployed). Oh no wait, that's exactly what they do.

It's interesting reading people's comments. I guess it depends on how much you care for all this. Not a lot, personally. Not any more. There's the odd thing I like, but the longer I'm around, the more I see, the less sympathy I have for anyone. I'd love to be able to honesty say "You know what guys, you're right. This is awful. Those poor people. They don't deserve this." But I'm afraid that would be a lie.

What a Splendid Post Ayase.
It's true that these savages on the streets smashing things up are just thugs but what about the Labcondems we have, have done far more damage to this country than these selfish brats running riot.

1. Why the capitalisation of the first letters of 'splendid post'? Are you not aware that doing so is foolish?

2. 'Labcondems'? I googled it, and most of the results on page one were about lambskin condoms. You shouldn't try to make up your own terms like that without thinking first.

3. Your use of 'labcondem' to refer to Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives, with your accusation they are damaging the country is intriguing. If you say the Conservatives are damaging the country too, then which party do you support? UKIP? BNP perhaps? A lot of what you say sounds similar to what I recall them putting in their political junk mail.

The politcal party i support would be the UK Independence Party as i sight myself as being a libertarian. (somebody who believes in Freedom, liberty and demcroacy) Ok i lean to the right of the politcal specterm but at least i respect other opinons that i may not agree with and take part in healthy debate.

Also i don't like how you put BNP in bold to try and smeer me just simply becasue my view conflict with yours , as i am nothing like those Xenophobic, natinal socialist thugs that the BNP are. And i find you rather sad and pathetic.

UKIP are just the BNP with a friendlier face mate...

 

[Vashdaman]

I get what ya mean Vash. If political decisions hadn't been made in the past which outsourced jobs, these people wouldn't be living on the dole. And if they weren't living on the dole with little hope of ever being employed (let alone earning a decent wage) in an aggressively consumerist society which encourages people to own the latest, most expensive things (regardless of whether they or anyone else can afford it or not) I think they'd be a lot less likely to put their own personal greed above theirs and others well-being.

Personally I'm content to just watch the stock market slide and the flames lick ever higher. This is nothing but the world we allowed our leaders to create, the world we deserve.

Yeah, I mean I don't think its really deniable that these factors have had an effect.

David Cameron's response today was pretty typical to be honest. He vaguely pinned the riots on "sick areas" and people with "no morals" who need to learn to take responsibility. All the while Cameron takes no responsibility himself. I mean yeah its true the individual has to take full responsibility and these kids don't have good morals, but shouldn't we ask why these kids who are born and raised in this society have no morals? Yeah their parenting is bad, but why are the parents not raising the children properly? It clearly has to do with poor levels of education employment and general opportunities in these boroughs though....

And he's still going to cut over a thousand jobs in the metropolitan police over the next few years....nice, real nice.

Anyway the good news is it looks like things are hopefully starting to calm down a bit.

Oh just saw the statement the father of one of the boys who were killed in Birmingham made, its takes real strength to come out so soon after the tragedy and make such a dignified statement. My heart really goes out to the family of those boys.

 

[Soubi-Hurt]

[ UKIP are just the BNP with a friendlier face mate...

That's a very lazy view.

 

[Vashdaman]

Didn't that Kilroy silk guy used to be leader of UKIP, lol.

 

[Animefreak17]

actually if we get the bnp, mac, edl, uaf and those idiots thats rioting now to all come together and they start killing each other over there hatred then we hit 5 stupid birds with one stone, cause i hate these 5 groups
the rioters are complete idiots
bnp are racists
edl are bigots
mac are religious nut cases that hates non believers
uaf are fashists them selfs
basically there all idiots
put them together and you get one big fight and luckily they kill each other. problem solved i bet 90% of these ass heads are on the doul anyway

 

[ilmaestro]

Birmingham center was on some sort of war-time lock down today, not sure the extent to which is actually kicked off in the end, but the atmosphere and situation was not something that I can equate to any other day in my lifetime in the city.

The caption underneath the photo is also amusing.

Haha, "The Guardian", yes, excellent.

 

[Tachi]

There's a world of difference between a few thugs stealing some burgers and having mates in rougher sides of town, and the savage violence we've seen in some areas recently.

You need to remember that i've had a friend killed, she was a friend since we where 5 and she went out with my best friend and he's like a brother to me, they broke up and she got with this other guy, when she wanted to break up with him, he stabbed her over 20 times and killed her.... not even in the street, round her friends house. I've lived to see one person of my high school year die each year since 2005. so i know exactly how ilmae would feel.

I presume you overlooked this part. Otherwise saying that there's a world of difference between "Rougher sides of town" and People stealing from foot locker and a guy getting hit is completely warped logic.

 

[Rui]

I presume you overlooked this part. Otherwise saying that there's a world of difference between "Rougher sides of town" and People stealing from foot locker and a guy getting hit is completely warped logic.

I read your post before the edit and didn't check back when I later replied ;(

If you know how it feels to have your world turned upside down, then that's fine - it just came off as sounding like the scenes in some towns were nothing to worry about, when for people on the spot they most definitely were at the time (and still potentially are, though the police seem to have mostly got their act together now)! What I wanted to convey was that to people affected it was a big deal, and hearing that it was just something to laugh about and watch their lives burn is unpleasant. It feels a lot like the situation where say, someone told you not to take Byron's passing seriously because he was just a dog, when of course in your position that would sound outrageous as he was one of your closest loved ones.

(Note: I adore dogs, so the "just a dog" was an example of what an uninformed person might say and not my own opinion in the slightest.)

R

 

[Tachi]

Yeah don't worry about that last bit i knew what you meant.

There's a slight difference between the scenarios in my opinion though, the difference being that unless they personally know the affected/killed party then i just can't pick up the whole connection between someone being upset about someone they don't even know. I guess living ina place where people generally don't give two seconds thought about each other and the whole community spirit is dead plays a part in why i fail to see why having these things happen to a persons town/city. I'm patriotic to the country though i've got no honour in luton, its just the place i live and tbh thats all i feel for it. Northampton is generally a nicer atmosphere and i get the same vibe of community spirit that i had when i grew up in halifax (west yorkshire). Overall this must be why i see no point in getting upset over something like this unless you have a personal connection to anyone involved/injured.

As i've already said though, i don't condone the killings at all, but the rioting - i'm indifferent too, if anything i'm hoping that the government doesn't write this off as gang culture and instead realises that people may be doing this because of tax and other things i've already mentioned in earlier posts.

 

[Rui]

It seems a lot more real to me because I've had to arrange taxis for my colleagues to go home in tears due to being so frightened for their lives. My neighbour has lost his family business completely; not a single trace of it left after it was ransacked and torched. It has even affected Beez (they say they'll get through it, but if their insurance wasn't paying up and they weren't committed to starting over it could very realistically have wiped an entire anime company off the map here, and we have barely any as it is to afford to lose another).

I've spent time in countries with a heavy police presence on every street and while it's comforting in some ways, it's also not a great atmosphere to relax in. In London this week there have been police on every street and riot vans driving through the roads, and it's putting everyone on edge. Public transport in the rough area where I work was almost completely empty at the start of the week and everyone was looking at everyone else with suspicion and fear, so it's hard not to feel the effects.

I have nothing against frustrated people wanting to change the world, but there exist peaceful forms of protest which don't make the underlying problems worse!

R

 

[Tachi]

Hmm, see you've got more of a personal attachment to the voilence, with the neighbour who'se whole livelyhood is gone but this is why people have insurance afterall.

Scare mungering between people furthers those who believe that they are going to be injured or killed, when in actual fact its probably more mind over matter. Listening to radio 2 (radio old) this week has tossed up people with similar ideas to me and similar ideas to you. Overall they all agreed it was terrible but some have reasons and some are just mindless rabbles of trouble making rioters who are dangerous to all around them.

As i'm used to seeing armed response van driving through the town centre (even drove past as i was sat eating my nandos lastnight) we've had arson here in luton and as i said at the top of my road the Mcdonalds was done in, this doesn't scare me because im not the target, i know that i don't own a business and they wouldn't personally go after me so there's no reason for me to worry, hency why i'm fine with letting them riot to their hearts content.

riot by all means, but don't kill, there's no need for that.

 

[Mutsumi]

The politcal party i support would be the UK Independence Party as i sight myself as being a libertarian. (somebody who believes in Freedom, liberty and demcroacy) Ok i lean to the right of the politcal specterm but at least i respect other opinons that i may not agree with and take part in healthy debate.

Says the person whose sole argument against Marxism was that those who follow it are stupid.

I've met a few marxist in my time and i don't see them as very intelligent as i do remember a saying there are those who read Marx and follow it and there are those who understand it and won't follow.

The worst kind of argument to make is that all your opponents are idiots. That's pulling the wool over your own eyes and making you the ignoramus.

Also i don't like how you put BNP in bold to try and smeer me just simply becasue my view conflict with yours , as i am nothing like those Xenophobic, natinal socialist thugs that the BNP are. And i find you rather sad and pathetic.

I was making an objective observation. As a libertarian, you are almost as bad as the BNP anyway.

 

[Vashdaman]

Hmm, see you've got more of a personal attachment to the voilence, with the neighbour who'se whole livelyhood is gone but this is why people have insurance afterall.

Scare mungering between people furthers those who believe that they are going to be injured or killed, when in actual fact its probably more mind over matter. Listening to radio 2 (radio old) this week has tossed up people with similar ideas to me and similar ideas to you. Overall they all agreed it was terrible but some have reasons and some are just mindless rabbles of trouble making rioters who are dangerous to all around them.

As i'm used to seeing armed response van driving through the town centre (even drove past as i was sat eating my nandos lastnight) we've had arson here in luton and as i said at the top of my road the Mcdonalds was done in, this doesn't scare me because im not the target, i know that i don't own a business and they wouldn't personally go after me so there's no reason for me to worry, hency why i'm fine with letting them riot to their hearts content.

riot by all means, but don't kill, there's no need for that.

But Tachi, if you lived in certain areas where the rioting was happening over here you would have been target. Innocent residents homes where broken into and in some cases burned to the ground, if that kind of violence was happening in your area you really wouldn't be saying "riot by all means". Its not just the big chains that were being hit up, it was anyone. And how can you just say "Riot but don't kill"? Does burning a house down count as "rioting", but what if there's a child in it that was unable to escape? It doesn't work.

Also you say that you "hope this is not just seen as a gang problem, but as people rioting over taxes". As I previously said I do think various economic and social factors have contributed to this riot, but the problem is that the people who are rioting clearly are not doing it deliberately as a protest to these underlying factors. Therefore the looting of local shops and violence towards innocent residents only makes it easier for the government to blame it on "gangs" and sweep the other issues away.

 

[Tachi]

To be honest everything your hearing about the riots is coming from the press, and if you haven't learnt that the press manipulate things and over dramatise everything for more interest then i'm afraid i can't fully get my point across to you.

As i said before, if it was happening in Luton then i would still be indifferent to it, most of the people who would commit the crimes in my area are actually people or siblings of people who i went to school with, i've never been mugged but my friend has (walking around the corner to my house infact) i chased them down an alleyway at 2am and called the police, they didn't come and nothing happened, it was only through the fact that i knew the guy and all his family and address that anything got done about it) Im not dodgey myself, i was a good boy all through school but i tend to geton with most people i come into contact with and thus far i've yet to raise my own fist for any reason, imo the pen/tongue is indeed sharper and more deadly than the sword and mindless violence doesn't solve everything, but to set themselves aside from a normal protest some feel the need to commit crimes, i don't agree with them killing and torching people but if they want to aim for something then i'd rather they aim for government buildings instead.


Those doing it because of taxes i support. those using it as a excuse to kill or to loot their trainers and tracksuits ffrom foot locker should be caught and serve community service, prison doesn't work so make them clean the country up instead.

 

[Vashdaman]

To be honest everything your hearing about the riots is coming from the press, and if you haven't learnt that the press manipulate things and over dramacise everything for more interest then i'm afraid i can't fully get my point across to you.

As i said before, if it was happening in Luton then i would still be indifferent to it, most of the people who would commit the crimes in my area are actually people or siblings of people who i went to school with, i've never been mugged but my friend has (walking around the corner to my house infact) i chased them down an alleyway at 2am and called the police, they didn't come and nothing happened, it was only through the fact that i knew the guy and all his family and address that anything got done about it) Im not dodgey myself, i was a good boy all through school but i tend to geton with most people i come into contact with and thus far i've yet to raise my own fist for any reason, imo the pen/tongue is indeed sharper and more deadly than the sword and mindless violence doesn't solve everything, but to set themselves aside from a normal protest some feel the need to commit crimes, i don't agree with them killing and torching people but if they want to aim for something then i'd rather they aim for government buildings instead.


Those doing it because of taxes i support. those using it as a excuse to kill or to loot their trainers and tracksuits ffrom foot locker should be caught and serve community service, prison doesn't work so make them clean the country up instead.

Err no, not all my information on these riots is coming from the press, I have many friends who live in Tottenham which is where it all started and I've spoken to friends who live in Hackney and were there when the rioting began. I am well aware of what the media is like but this is not just media hype Tachi.

I'm sorry but to be honest I just don't get your point. What does chasing someone who mugged your friend down an alley have to do with this situation?

The large majority of these riots are hurting normal people thats where the real damage is being done not government buildings.

 

[Tachi]

what i was talking about was that if there was rioting in luton then i wouldn't feel any different to normal. if it was a riot in luton i'd know who they are and they wouldn't touch me.

The point that i was making is that i don't feel that the police hold anything over those breaking the law now, they aren't affective and people end up with a slap on the wrist and thats all, bring back 70's police where they inflicted fear into those who do wrong. I had to deal with things myself to help my friend, the law that should have stepped in and dealt with it didn't. THis is what im on about, the government have made so many restrictions that the police can't do much, parents can't smack their kids and instill abit of stability when they start to be little shits. Its upto the public to deal with trouble makers these days, and with political correctness all around nobody wants to try and deal with trouble makers because they will just come back with "racist" or something other to deffer those trying to uphold the law. Prisons aren't working and they ASBO's are a badge of honour, i say give them community service and instead of giving them an asbo, place a tag that they must wear at all times (similar to battle royale might be interesting) and on the tag has something insulting wrote on it like mummas boy, or daddies little bender.

will you read what im actually writting? im saying that if they want to riot i would rather then went for government buildings ¬____¬ read whats being written instead of browsing through it and posting something like that last statement.