Tottenham riot

[Vashdaman]

what i was talking about was that if there was rioting in luton then i wouldn't feel any different to normal. if it was a riot in luton i'd know who they are and they wouldn't touch me.

The point that i was making is that i don't feel that the police hold anything over those breaking the law now, they aren't affective and people end up with a slap on the wrist and thats all, bring back 70's police where they inflicted fear into those who do wrong. I had to deal with things myself to help my friend, the law that should have stepped in and dealt with it didn't. THis is what im on about, the government have made so many restrictions that the police can't do much, parents can't smack their kids and instill abit of stability when they start to be little shits. Its upto the public to deal with trouble makers these days, and with political correctness all around nobody wants to try and deal with trouble makers because they will just come back with "racist" or something other to deffer those trying to uphold the law. Prisons aren't working and they ASBO's are a badge of honour, i say give them community service and instead of giving them an asbo, place a tag that they must wear at all times (similar to battle royale might be interesting) and on the tag has something insulting wrote on it like mummas boy, or daddies little bender.

will you read what im actually writting? im saying that if they want to riot i would rather then went for government buildings ¬____¬ read whats being written instead of browsing through it and posting something like that last statement.

I did read it not just browse through it, I was just stating the reality they are not and will not just focus on attacking the government alone, it doesn't matter what you want. And even if they did, its still not justifiable, as it would still lead policemen who are just doing their job getting hurt, not all the police force are corrupt and they have had to deal with the cuts like everyone else.

I don't know too much about Luton but in London people who were a part of their local communities have in some cases lost everything and its not much comfort saying to them "oh well, that's what insurance is for". You may be indifferent to it but theres no point supporting this kind of pointless rioting

 

[Tachi]

Another case of you not listening to a word i say, i've spelled it out in detail plenty of times now and i'm now giving up hope on you understanding a single sentence i write.

I advise that if you want to continue talking about this then reread through what i said about it. If your house burnt down in a fire that wasn't to do with arson and you lost everything you'd claim on your insurance, thats what its there for. Otherwise your paying money for no reason. just because some dickhead has set fire to your house and all your belongings it doesn't mean your insurance is void ¬____¬

I don't support them doing illegal activities and killings, i DO support the few that are excercising their right to freedom of speech against the government's tax inflation and the other issues.

If you reply with another half read reply to the above statement then you are a moron, pure and simple.

 

[Rui]

Insurance doesn't really come close to paying for the real cost.

What you lose just of the top of my head:

Your building (a lot of the burned out buildings are going to be condemned as unsafe for obvious reasons - some shops will have to buy or lease elsewhere if they can't be rebuilt).
Your ability to make any money during the months your business has been wiped off the map.
Your ability to retain customers who have had to go somewhere else all that time.
Your investments in marketing campaigns and other consultancy fees which you'd hoped to benefit from during this period.
Your rates with suppliers and couriers, since you aren't trading and will be downgraded.
Your staff, since they're going to have to find other jobs to make ends meet while you rebuild everything.
All your records and business information, which was likely stored in the shop for independent traders.
Your possessions (insurance will get you a new oven, carpet etc, it won't bring back your unique furniture, family photos, precious heirlooms, saved wedding dress or other treasures).
Your pets (animals such as caged pets and fish will die in fires, obviously this is never reported, but an animal is not replaceable).

Not to mention the fact that having a 100+ year family-owned business destroyed is depressing, and older traders simply won't have the resources to go through with rebuilding everything from scratch again. For what it's worth I'm pretty sure my neighbour is throwing in the towel because he can't cope with it. These clods may not have realised it, but there are tough times financially at the moment for everyone, not just those who are unemployed. Local store owners are far from being wealthy fat cats who can absorb this kind of blow.

They shouldn't damage any building, irrespective of who owns it. The buildings are part of our cultural heritage and have obviously done nothing wrong themselves (being inanimate objects). Burning a government building down teaches the government nothing. Burning a privately owned building down is even more senseless.

R

 

[Vashdaman]

Another case of you not listening to a word i say, i've spelled it out in detail plenty of times now and i'm now giving up hope on you understanding a single sentence i write.

I advise that if you want to continue talking about this then reread through what i said about it. If your house burnt down in a fire that wasn't to do with arson and you lost everything you'd claim on your insurance, thats what its there for. Otherwise your paying money for no reason. just because some dickhead has set fire to your house and all your belongings it doesn't mean your insurance is void ¬____¬

I don't support them doing illegal activities and killings, i DO support the few that are excercising their right to freedom of speech against the government's tax inflation and the other issues.

If you reply with another half read reply to the above statement then you are a moron, pure and simple.

.......wow....just wow.

When did say the insurance would be void??? I said its not much comfort being told "oh well that's what insurance is for" which is what you said, as they have still lost their home and everything in it. Not to be mean but sometimes I think you just write random words down and hope they make sense ¬____¬

So if you don't support illegal activities how can you go on record saying "I support the rioting"!? These are 16 year old kids running wild through the street they are NOT "excercising their right to freedom of speech against the government's tax inflation and the other issues"

 

[Tachi]

Yeah thats understandable. I know some things (sentimental value) aren't possible to replace but like the different tpes of car insurance some are more protective than others. When i say to aim for governement buildings i guess i mean to go and protest and riot at the places where decisions are made, not bobs house from down the road. And by riot i mean cause a disturbance, let them know your annoyed but don't burn the place down ¬__¬

.......wow....just wow.

Not to be mean but sometimes I think you just write random words down and hope they make sense ¬____¬

I'll admit that there are some typo errors, i cba to go through and spell check everything, but its not like i make up words.

Wow i didn't know i was "on record" and again your not listening to what i've written, you've now successfully managed to convince me that your a moron.

BTW in the past haven't you had to retract what you've said because you didn't read what i said? yeah now that i think about it, it was you. Genius that you are.

 

[Vashdaman]

.......wow....just wow.

Not to be mean but sometimes I think you just write random words down and hope they make sense ¬____¬

I'll admit that there are some typo errors, i cba to go through and spell check everything, but its not like i make up words.

Wow i didn't know i was "on record" and again your not listening to what i've written, you've now successfully managed to convince me that your a moron.

BTW in the past haven't you had to retract what you've said because you didn't read what i said? yeah now that i think about it, it was you. Genius that you are.

I wasn't talking about spelling errors tachi....

How am I misunderstanding what you writing

Riot by all means

I support those doing it because of taxes

I don't support them doing Illegal activities

Is this not a contradiction, or are you unaware of what a riot is? Or am I not listening again?

Basically no one involved in these riots were doing it as an expression of freedom of speech against high taxes, nor was it done in the name of Mark Duggan, that was the initial spark but that's all. Its just a shame the police didn't handle his family or the Tottenham community properly and with respect, as if they did none of this would have kicked off.

And no by the way I have never retracted anything I have ever said to you. Genius

 

[Animefreak17]

opportunist nothing more thats all they are
people get shoot stabbed ect everyday its called stupid human and a group of people didn't like how one of there friends got killed but some of yhe kids friends said that hes dead friend wouldn't of want these riots but-
some of hes friends was angry and they took it hard then people who doesn't even know the kid thought hey lets use this as a opportunity to riot cause we hate the police then a nother group say lets take what evers in the shops.
you see all these people aren't even trying to make one single point there all individuals who had different agendas
robbing
fighting the police
race hate
fighting for the death of the kid who died ( i hardly doubt that all those rioters knew that one kid)
there all opportunists with different agendas

 

[Ryo Chan]

little jimmy is bout to get got!

 

[Ryo Chan]

Over 9000 hours in paint Ryo?

or 10 seconds on google

 

[Tachi]

I wasn't talking about spelling errors tachi....

How am I misunderstanding what you writing

Riot by all means

I support those doing it because of taxes

I don't support them doing Illegal activities

Is this not a contradiction, or are you unaware of what a riot is? Or am I not listening again?

I know what a riot is, but there's 2 types imo, one where they go for it and destroy everything and loot and kill ect ect. Then there's the second one where they cause damage to property and police and civilians end up fighting but nobody gets killed and nothing gets set on fire.

Basically no one involved in these riots were doing it as an expression of freedom of speech against high taxes, nor was it done in the name of Mark Duggan, that was the initial spark but that's all. Its just a shame the police didn't handle his family or the Tottenham community properly and with respect, as if they did none of this would have kicked off.

Its easy to generalise like that statement, though some are doing it for the reasons i've stated, others have agreed that this is a possibility too so i think to put everyone under the same reasons banner is wrong. Sure some are opportunists but not all of them will be.

And no by the way I have never retracted anything I have ever said to you. Genius

Coughs, we had a talk about vegans and things. Both to an extent retracted things that could have been taken the wrong way.

I don't want to argue, its friday and i'm too mellow today to bother anymore, but lets just agree to disagree.

 

[ayase]

In reply to Sparrow's post a few pages back, no, I wouldn't be in the least bit bothered if it was my local community getting trashed. In fact, I'd be happier to see it get wrecked than I would anywhere else. Like the rwst of the country it's full of arrogant, complacent, selfish people who deserve to be shocked out of their comfort zones.

I agree that the rioting has no intended purpose, but to say that there is no reason for it and that people are "just thugs" is very short sighted. There's always a reason. Why do people feel able to commit such wanton destruction? Why do people have no pride in their local community or respect for the people who live in it? Perhaps the local community (and wider society) had no respect for the people causing the violence long before it happened. And before anyone starts with all the "peaceful protest" ****: The last few years demonstrate conclusively that peaceful protests do *nothing* in this country.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Perhaps local communities have no respect for those causing the violence because they're the same people who intimidate, vandalise, attack, and rob said community on a daily basis. You could argue the toss all day about who disrespected who first, but there's still no excuse for that behaviour.

And while peaceful protests may be ultimately useless, what good has the violence caused? Dave wants a crackdown on social networking. Say goodbye to more civil liberties!

 

[Tachi]

Said it before, saying it again; bring back all the rights parents, teachers and the police had to sort out unruley kids before they grow up to be the little shits that they are, roaming the streets in packs like animals, intimidating people.

Over the years, im not sure if its because i've grown up and don't spend alot of time in local parks playing footy with the lads anymore so i don't see them, but in recent years the only ones who still roam around luton are the pakistani boys around 11 to 18, but they don't intimidate half as much as the white kids from council estates used to. In the footage i've seen of the riots and looting the people aren't just kids, there was a guy who was on ITV news who was stealing a tv and a few others running out of a shop and stuffing electronics under their tshirts. So its not fair to say its kids just doing it, the majority are opportunist adults.

They are talking about a zero tolerance to crime and letting police have guns on radio 2.

 

[ayase]

Perhaps local communities have no respect for those causing the violence because they're the same people who intimidate, vandalise, attack, and rob said community on a daily basis. You could argue the toss all day about who disrespected who first, but there's still no excuse for that behaviour.

And while peaceful protests may be ultimately useless, what good has the violence caused? Dave wants a crackdown on social networking. Say goodbye to more civil liberties!

I think there's only so far the government can push people. Who has anything good to say about our rulers? Anyone? Who's feeling better off? Safer? Freer? Happier? They have nothing to offer us anymore. Nothing. And if they think restricting civil liberties will get people on their side... perhaps they're right. Perhaps it will win the support of the older people who still bother to vote. You know what those people aren't? Young and physically and mentally prepared for violence and destruction. Because they see nothing in this society worth caring about. And I have to agree with them.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

I agree with what you're saying about the government. Personally I've never felt so disconnected from and indifferent towards politics. That said, I prefer to live out my "dog-eat-dog world" fantasies in Fallout, where if I die I can reload my previous save. I, like a lot of people in this country, am more weary than angry.

 

[ayase]

Right. But it's obvious that more people are moving from apathy to anger with each passing day. They just keep making decisions that almost seem designed to piss off as large a number of the population as is humanly possible. The anger is definitely there, it just isn't being effectively channelled and targeted... yet. All they need for that is a leader they can believe in. I'm just hoping that when they turn up they're more of a Lenin than a Hitler, although the thought does occur...

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Meh. Anything has to be better than what we have at the moment. Even a boot stomping on a human face - forever. I think my main political motivation now is to punish those who have safe, cushy positions of power and wealth rather than anything else. Like the French revolution, I don't really care if they are replaced by even worse tyrants; it would be worth it just to see the likes of front bench politicians on the guillotine.

 

[Vashdaman]

I wasn't talking about spelling errors tachi....

How am I misunderstanding what you writing

Riot by all means

I support those doing it because of taxes

I don't support them doing Illegal activities

Is this not a contradiction, or are you unaware of what a riot is? Or am I not listening again?

I know what a riot is, but there's 2 types imo, one where they go for it and destroy everything and loot and kill ect ect. Then there's the second one where they cause damage to property and police and civilians end up fighting but nobody gets killed and nothing gets set on fire.

Basically no one involved in these riots were doing it as an expression of freedom of speech against high taxes, nor was it done in the name of Mark Duggan, that was the initial spark but that's all. Its just a shame the police didn't handle his family or the Tottenham community properly and with respect, as if they did none of this would have kicked off.

Its easy to generalise like that statement, though some are doing it for the reasons i've stated, others have agreed that this is a possibility too so i think to put everyone under the same reasons banner is wrong. Sure some are opportunists but not all of them will be.

And no by the way I have never retracted anything I have ever said to you. Genius

Coughs, we had a talk about vegans and things. Both to an extent retracted things that could have been taken the wrong way.

I don't want to argue, its friday and i'm too mellow today to bother anymore, but lets just agree to disagree.

Yeah thats fair enough , but I don't think that its necessarily possible to separate the two kinds of riots you stated. Or at least its very hard, when people get worked up and attacking its hard to know where to draw the line because people stop thinking when they start rioting. I'm not saying that uprising is never necessary in the most extreme circumstances, but I don't think rioting is necessary here.

To be honest your right I was actually generalizing, and I think many other people are too. The majority of the damage done in these riots was done by teenagers and young men, and yes these kids were attacking everything in sight in some cases, but I think that this may well have been those kids feeling that they are fighting some sort of enemy who have wronged them. In some cases rival gangs even came together to cause trouble and to them this may well been their idea of fighting social injustice. Although in reality they are just hurting inncocent people

As is expected, right now there are many people are acting very reactionary towards this situation saying thinhs like "cut their benefits" and whatnot. I can understand how they feel, but right now I really hope more people try to look for the root of the problem

 

[MaxonTreik]

Said it before, saying it again; bring back all the rights parents, teachers and the police had to sort out unruley kids before they grow up to be the little shits that they are, roaming the streets in packs like animals, intimidating people.

But it's ok for you to go unpunished for your supposed hacking exploits? :roll:

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

Heard a very appropriate quote in Batman Begins today: "criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding".

Pretty much how I feel about those people who are only looting out of greed but will probably get some lenience if they play it off as "anger at the government" or whatever.

 

[Vashdaman]

I don't really understand why when you say that other deep rooted factors must have contributed to the situation, everyone seems to think that means your endorsing and justifying the behaviour we saw. We are clearly having this idea that there is nothing else to this situation but pure unexplained "criminality" marketed to us, unfortunately this will get us nowhere.

I think our biggest problem is that no one is willing to take any responsibility, and I don't just mean the rioters or the government, I mean all of us. Everyone living in this society including you and me is responsible for what happens within it. Unfortunately I don't think many like this idea and would simply prefer to pass the blame onto "The benefits" and so on.