The News Thread (for news that does not need a thread)

I might as well throw my thoughts on this subject into the mix.

I honestly believe that distributors need to look more at the Japanese market for inspiration. Prices should go up, with physical releases becoming collector's items for fans of a particular series instead of the current situation where every release is cheap for fans of anime.

Whilst fans might be unable to afford the now more expensive retail releases, I would hope streaming services and the onset of Net TVs would allow people to still remain in the fanbase.

Of course none of this is going to happen soon, streaming would need to be more widespread than it is currently. The BBFC would also cause issues with the retail strategy.
 
I think a lot of people already know about anime, but the number of those who want to buy and collect it, especially at prices which aren't commercial suicide, is tiny. We're moving away from a physical media society. People want Netflix, iTunes, Spotify and Steam - collecting physical media is heading very much towards being a nerdy hobby once again. Manga's DVD prices are insanely low. If people won't pick up an entire season of anime for £7 on DVD (or even on blu-ray in some cases!), they aren't going to pick it up at any price.

The problem with promotion is that what people get out of it doesn't seem to be tallying with what they put in. Manga UK have freely explained they can't get anime on TV no matter what they try these days (personally, I don't think that would help that much these days, as TV is too fragmented to be the behemoth it once was unless you get offered a really amazing deal with a major channel). We know that a standard Manga UK series that isn't called Naruto/Bleach will sell a couple of thousand copies at best over a period. They don't have the revenue to plough into national advertising campaigns with those kind of figures. Especially at the prices they are selling them at.

There's also the problem, again, that advertising only really works for things with mass appeal, which doesn't help the kind of shows I like. Highschool of the Dead, if it somehow got a massive amount of attention, would definitely shift some DVDs, but would The Tatami Galaxy ever sell more than ~100 copies nationwide no matter how many people knew about it? It's hard to imagine that it would. So I don't mind paying a little more to support that coming over, subsidising it.

Not sure about the potential crossover between Transformers and Gundam, since I love the latter and haven't even felt the slightest desire to glance at the latest horrifying incarnation of my once-beloved childhood robot series, but I agree there is room for promotion when there's a lucky break!

R
 
I think there is room for improvement in terms of promotion and whatnot. Only a few years ago or so wasn't a Kanye West music video blatantly inspired by Akira? Of course, I do remember seeing an interview where he was asked for the inspirations behind it, and was quite disappointed when he mentioned things like Blade Runner but completely ignored the obvious anime riffs (typical). But can you imagine if Kanye came out with another anime inspired vid now, and it was clearly communicated. His legion of teeny wannabe's would be all over anime (for an admittedly brief period). In fact I do see anime references in our popular culture all the time, I think there was another Akira/Godzilla reference in a recent Foreign Beggars music vid. But the problem is, that's all there is, there's no anime on TV anymore, so if anyone's interest is piqued they'll probably go down to their local blockbusters or HMV, where they'll respectively find nothing at all, or poorly organised and stocked stacks of DVD's that aren't going for quite so cheap (in fact the DVD's are priced almost completely randomly). It's not the sort of thing that breeds enthusiasm.

Where else are they going to find info on anime? Maybe NEO, but if your not 13 yrs old, that's hardly inspiring stuff either.

Of course, there's also the inherent problem that the Japanese industry seems determined too broaden it's views little, and instead home in on the school girl panty fiending otaku that the medium of Japanese animation is usually negatively stereotyped for. But in these economic times, I doubt we can expect much broadening of horizons any time soon.

If people won't pick up an entire season of anime for £7 on DVD (or even on blu-ray in some cases!), they aren't going to pick it up at any price.
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In stores like HMV and Forbidden Planet, anime is nearly never so cheaply priced. In fact, I have honestly never seen an anime DVD on sale (which I suppose you could argue is a good thing) or for a nearly comparable price to what you can find online, at HMV (which is nearly the only retail stockist of anime, these days).
 
There aren't going to be physical shops outside of major cities soon anyway. You can't buy anime where I live in shops at all any more, and it's a large town near London. Sadly, the majority of people who cling to physical stores are going to be forced to shop online for their entertainment in the next decade or so, or they will go without. HMV's pricing really does suck, but since all of their competitors have disappeared (along with a bunch of their own stores as well) the days of getting a deal on the high street have gone too.

I find that anime is pretty well known amongst the kind of people who would like it, it's just the collector mentality which isn't, so much. A lot of my workmates past and present have been into Ninja Scroll or Gantz or Naruto, but actually going and paying for a DVD wouldn't once enter their mind. I'm not sure what can convert their enjoyment of the occasional series on YouTube/Netflix etc to a desire to start buying it. And even if it was possible, I still don't think any of them would get a taste for The Tatami Galaxy any time soon :(

R
 
ilmaestro said:
ayase said:
Well somebody must be making money, otherwise why would anime continue to be produced and hyped and merchandised so much in Japan?
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So, your argument is price it down until no-one is making any? :p
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My argument is to harmonise the world economy so that everyone is on the whole paying (and being paid) the same the world over for whatever they're doing or buying. Some things we'd pay more for, others less.

I don't really see the point in hypothecating on what you'd do if you were in charge of the anime industry - None of us are ever going to be there so I figure I might as well imagine myself undisputed ruler of the world while I'm at it.
 
Ninja Scroll or Gantz or Naruto, but actually going and paying for a DVD wouldn't once enter their mind. I'm not sure what can convert their enjoyment of the occasional series on YouTube/Netflix etc to a desire to start buying it. And even if it was possible, I still don't think any of them would get a taste for The Tatami Galaxy any time soon
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I do experience this quite a lot too. For example my older brother, who is pretty much the most casual anime fan (and calling him that is even a stretch) in the world. He likes anime, and has a fairly broad taste (he's probably even enjoy something like Tatami Galaxy) But will only ever watch anime if I've already bought it. It's quite annoying, especially when I'm broke and wish he'd buy some :p
 
Interesting posts on the last couple of pages - especially from Rui, Ayase and Vashdaman.

A couple of things I'd lob out there for consideration:

What are Manga Entertainment selling for seven quid??? Enquiring minds must know!

In all seriousness, though, I think there's a place and some good sense in cheaply priced releases. I just don't think EVERYTHING should be cheaply priced.

For example: I don't know HOW it was possible to find a quality show like Heat Guy J for sale in its entirety for less than a tenner a while back, but it's certainly the sort of thing that might attract more casual interest. And who knows - once Johnny Casualfan has had a keenly priced taster of anime, he may just be persuaded to spend a bit more on something else that he likes the look of.

And I also wouldn't resist a sensible and affordable price hike on stuff across the board if I was convinced it would have a positive effect on the industry in the West.

Also, regarding promotion - I do believe a lot comes down to how it's handled. That 'Gundam off the back of Transformers' example I proposed earlier SHOULD have been a no-brainer. What are the kids / masses flocking to see? Giant robots and explosions. What can we push at the kids / masses? Giant robots and explosions. SIMPLES! It doesn't matter if folks loved or hated the Transformers movies - they were doing great business, and turning over a scary amount of money. Did NOBODY selling mecha anime think 'maybe we can push this stuff if the public are entertained by robots?'

And promotion need not cost the earth, either. There's space (I'm sure) for guerilla marketing. Heck, I mentioned comics before. It's pretty much accepted that independent comics need to be publicised and promoted however possible to reach an audience. Even avenues like discussion boards and facebook can be a huge help that way. Dedicated fans will even pick up the torch and carry it if they like the product. It can be done.

There's a certain amount of savvy required for successful promotion. Rui mentions Tatami Galaxy - which is truthfully going to be a hard sell. So you push the stuff that's more in the zeitgeist. The supernatural dramas, the sci-fi shows, the comedies - whatever is doing good business in the MAINSTREAM. And if you do it right, you may just create a platform to promote the second tier, not-quite-mass-appeal stuff in the process.

Even a simple step like an inlay card in each DVD case detailing your other releases can work. And it'd help if they could find their way onto NON anime DVDs, too.

As for the points regarding physical ownership... sorry, but I don't think things are actually as far down the road to physical media being obsolete as folks might think.

I say that from the standpoint of somebody who's looked into digital publishing and video streaming, and the perceived problems with both. There's ALWAYS going to be a sizeable contingent of folks who want to own their product. Obtaining it electronically is a long, long way from being accepted as the norm, whether it's for books, comics or anime. There are just too many kinks that haven't yet been satisfactorily ironed out to sway the public en masse.
 
ayase said:
ilmaestro said:
ayase said:
Well somebody must be making money, otherwise why would anime continue to be produced and hyped and merchandised so much in Japan?
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So, your argument is price it down until no-one is making any? :p
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My argument is to harmonise the world economy so that everyone is on the whole paying (and being paid) the same the world over for whatever they're doing or buying. Some things we'd pay more for, others less.

I don't really see the point in hypothecating on what you'd do if you were in charge of the anime industry - None of us are ever going to be there so I figure I might as well imagine myself undisputed ruler of the world while I'm at it.
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That's fine - my argument is that in that scenario, what would happen is everyone would be paying much closer to JP prices for anime than you would like, still. In fact, I could see that being the case within the next five years even if you can't kick the lizard jews out of power and take your rightful place at the head of affairs!
 
HdE said:
What are Manga Entertainment selling for seven quid??? Enquiring minds must know!
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Pretty much anything that's been out for more than a few months. If I was still buying Manga UK products, I'd wait before buying absolutely anything because they have developed a pattern where they sell everything off at rock bottom prices after the initial surge is over. Whereas when Beez were still around, I'd preorder their stuff because I'd know the price wasn't going to plummet anywhere close to as dramatically so there was no reason to wait. This is part of why I think Manga's "race to the bottom" pricing is a flawed strategy.

I find with Manga that if you wait a little while, movies can be had for £3-4 new usually and 'half-season' sets for £5-7, unless it sold really badly and then they can be even cheaper than that. At this moment, from a quick skim on Amazon, Ouran (both cours) is going for £8.49, xxxHolic is £4.49 for a cour, Devil May Cry is under a fiver, Sengoku Basara is £7.69, Black Blood Brothers is £5. Eden of the East's complete collection is £8 for DVD or £10 for blu-ray. And this isn't even a sale, this is standard pricing at one shop without looking around. I remember buying Soul Eater's complete collection on sale at such a low price that it was cheaper than just buying the last set (and so I sold the other sets I had to CEX, effectively getting the show for free). If you look out on HMV or Zavvi you can definitely shave a few pounds off even those Amazon prices at certain times.

Sure, the very newest stuff is closer to retail price, but if you're waiting for a UK release for something for years in the first place, waiting a couple of extra months after release to save considerably has always felt easy for me. There's not even any incentive to buy the initial release as it always comes in the same cheap no-frills packaging you'll get later on paying a quarter of the price.

R
 
If I was still buying Manga UK products, I'd wait before buying absolutely anything because they have developed a pattern where they sell everything off at rock bottom prices after the initial surge is over.
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This is the case with me and a numerous shows. Bleach, I've paid £9-12 for the first 3 seasons. I will not pay £35 for season 4 so i'll just wait knowing it will drop in time. I'm somewhat doing the same for Black Butler now.

Then we have HMV (online!) with Fairy Tail Part 1 at the price of £30....

Is HMV not selling as well as expected?
 
Rui, answer me this, if man will not buy Wakfu for £7 a cour (which, sidebar I agree is too low, like I said £30 a cour is the RRP I'd go for) what on god's gloryous earth makes you think he would pay £30, £40, £50 or, as japan would want it, £250 a cour and how would that make up for the number needed to make up the mans who would not buy at that price?

Before you ask, Wakfu is a) French and b) not anime, I just use it because it's less of a dance than "Schoolgirl Milky crisis" and I want more people to see Wakfu.
 
Then that man won't buy it at any price. So the key thing is, to ignore him as a DVD customer entirely and get him with Netflix or something he considers worth the money instead, and charge the people who do want to buy an appropriate amount to subsidise the continuation of the hobby.

I don't enjoy spending a lot any more than anyone else does, it's just that I see it as necessary when considering things from the company's side and knowing how few copies these foreign cartoons often shift. If I didn't want the luxury of owning a copy myself, I'd be happy just subscribing to Crunchyroll, AoD, Viki and so on and save a fortune.

I'm sure there are ways to monetise the people who don't see DVDs as worthwhile outlets for their spending. I don't know what those ways are, but continuing to sit and pray they will suddenly start buying physical releases surely isn't right. Lowering the revenue companies make by continuing to try to tempt these non-buyers seems flawed.

R
 
Joshawott said:
Here's a crazy thought: If the Japanese companies don't want the Japanese people to import the western releases, why don't they give them releases that don't make them want to look elsewhere? Sure, they have to recoup costs for the production, the TV airing an all that, so our release pattern wouldn't work at all there, but am I seriously supposed to believe that ￥2625 (£20.25) is worth one episode of Tiger & Bunny (Volume 1 Standard Edition only has 1 episode iirc)?
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If you haven't read ANN's recent Anime Economy editorial, you should.
 
Rui said:
Then that man won't buy it at any price. So the key thing is, to ignore him as a DVD customer entirely and get him with Netflix or something he considers worth the money instead, and charge the people who do want to buy an appropriate amount to subsidise the continuation of the hobby.R
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That's like a man dying of thirst in a desert, pouring out his last bit of water on the sand in the hope it will evapourate and form clouds that will rain on him. I have aways bought what I liked, but I have been trained to rent it first by distributors who have dropped titles before finishing them. So by your example above; if they did that there's no way I would pay £250 for Haibane Renmei, no matter how much I adored it. Yeah I'll rent it to see it and leave it on the rental shelf when I'm finished, but how's that going to improve profits to Japan again?
 
Shiroi Hane said:
Joshawott said:
Here's a crazy thought: If the Japanese companies don't want the Japanese people to import the western releases, why don't they give them releases that don't make them want to look elsewhere? Sure, they have to recoup costs for the production, the TV airing an all that, so our release pattern wouldn't work at all there, but am I seriously supposed to believe that ￥2625 (£20.25) is worth one episode of Tiger & Bunny (Volume 1 Standard Edition only has 1 episode iirc)?
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If you haven't read ANN's recent Anime Economy editorial, you should.
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Link for anyone that needs it
 
Rui said:
Then that man won't buy it at any price. So the key thing is, to ignore him as a DVD customer entirely and get him with Netflix or something he considers worth the money instead, and charge the people who do want to buy an appropriate amount to subsidise the continuation of the hobby.

I don't enjoy spending a lot any more than anyone else does, it's just that I see it as necessary when considering things from the company's side and knowing how few copies these foreign cartoons often shift. If I didn't want the luxury of owning a copy myself, I'd be happy just subscribing to Crunchyroll, AoD, Viki and so on and save a fortune.

I'm sure there are ways to monetise the people who don't see DVDs as worthwhile outlets for their spending. I don't know what those ways are, but continuing to sit and pray they will suddenly start buying physical releases surely isn't right. Lowering the revenue companies make by continuing to try to tempt these non-buyers seems flawed.

R
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Similarity, I'm not in the mood to have what amounts to "We fail at business" tax levied at me just because Manga utterly sucks balls like a dyson on Debra's desk at marketing.

So if that £30 box of Dragonball Z suddenly became a £40/50 box as a result that would scare me off (and into the arms of UP1) then that's me lost as a customer.

Just punting it into context, I Just got my hands on Redline (I know, I know, but I have an excuse, I was learning the art of 3D Modelling, not all that well but whatever) and I feel that, for £30 getting the DVD and the Blu-Ray was a fair exchange. I would have certainly put that case back to rot on the shelves of HMV if it was any more expensive than that.

If the pleb consumer is lost, then upping the cost to drive me off hoping that there will be enough suckers (because, let's be frank, you can show me the economics of it all day but there's no way I can't label Nerds in Japan who fork over what amounts to a grand for one series anything but that) that'll stick around to make that loss worth it.

I grantee you that if Manga try that on for size they'll be so bankrupt that Rangers and Game will have to look at them and mealy bow their heads in resignation of how utterly broke Manga are.
 
ConanThe3rd said:
Rui said:
Then that man won't buy it at any price. So the key thing is, to ignore him as a DVD customer entirely and get him with Netflix or something he considers worth the money instead, and charge the people who do want to buy an appropriate amount to subsidise the continuation of the hobby.

I don't enjoy spending a lot any more than anyone else does, it's just that I see it as necessary when considering things from the company's side and knowing how few copies these foreign cartoons often shift. If I didn't want the luxury of owning a copy myself, I'd be happy just subscribing to Crunchyroll, AoD, Viki and so on and save a fortune.

I'm sure there are ways to monetise the people who don't see DVDs as worthwhile outlets for their spending. I don't know what those ways are, but continuing to sit and pray they will suddenly start buying physical releases surely isn't right. Lowering the revenue companies make by continuing to try to tempt these non-buyers seems flawed.

R
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Similarity, I'm not in the mood to have what amounts to "We fail at business" tax levied at me just because Manga utterly sucks balls like a dyson on Debra's desk at marketing.

So if that £30 box of Dragonball Z suddenly became a £40/50 box as a result that would scare me off (and into the arms of UP1) then that's me lost as a customer.

Just punting it into context, I Just got my hands on Redline (I know, I know, but I have an excuse, I was learning the art of 3D Modelling, not all that well but whatever) and I feel that, for £30 getting the DVD and the Blu-Ray was a fair exchange. I would have certainly put that case back to rot on the shelves of HMV if it was any more expensive than that.

If the pleb consumer is lost, then upping the cost to drive me off hoping that there will be enough suckers (because, let's be frank, you can show me the economics of it all day but there's no way I can't label Nerds in Japan who fork over what amounts to a grand for one series anything but that) that'll stick around to make that loss worth it.

I grantee you that if Manga try that on for size they'll be so bankrupt that Rangers and Game will have to look at them and mealy bow their heads in resignation of how utterly broke Manga are.
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I can see it happening. Hell it's already started in the US with Aniplex and NISA. The Japanese companies are going to do the maths, and work out that it's more worthwhile selling directly to two or three hundred mugs at otaku prices, rather than let the local companies license and sell directly to twenty or thirty thousand at local prices. As long as there is someone willing to import at $300 - $800 a series, they're happier selling direct. The profit margins work out the same for them. They're not in it to open the world to the magic of anime, they just want enough money to keep their series in production. Then it's bye-bye Funimation, bye-bye Madman, and bye-bye Manga, and it's bye-bye to local anime fandom, as all that will be left in the UK will be twenty or thirty mega fans with deep pockets buying direct from Japan, and putting up with Engrish subtitles but happy with their deluxe packaging, art cards and pencil boards, and on disc extras that won't be translated...
 
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