The News Thread (for news that does not need a thread)
- Thread starter ilmaestro
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D
Deleted member 3446
Guest
I don't think they had the US rights, they had to wait until bandai would have it said it was ok to release them (https://twitter.com/MangaUK/status/157845201845624832) but we all know that won't come into fruition now.
I think it's one of the licenses where we have to wait for it to be 'rescued'. As K-on was rescued by sentai filmworks, manga will have to wait until they say it's good to go with the release of the blu ray (It shouldn't be too long considering the release of madoka). I think the same applies to GitS to whomever rescues it in the US as Manga probably don't want to get the licenses from Japan themselves.
I think it's one of the licenses where we have to wait for it to be 'rescued'. As K-on was rescued by sentai filmworks, manga will have to wait until they say it's good to go with the release of the blu ray (It shouldn't be too long considering the release of madoka). I think the same applies to GitS to whomever rescues it in the US as Manga probably don't want to get the licenses from Japan themselves.
ayase
State Alchemist
I think what Shiroi meant was that the US DVDs of SAC were released in conjunction with Manga, their logo is on the packaging so they must have held the US rights at some point (which also means they must have picked the licence up directly from Japan in that instance - though it would have been in the pre-Starz days). That said, the Anime Legends re-releases appear to be Bandai only. Though Bandai USA is dead and gone obviously Bandai Japan still exists and since nobody in the US appears to have obtained the licence to what was a very popular show, I'm a little concerned they might be pulling a Gundam AGE and not actually licensing it to other regions but rather just hoping that we'll buy the Japanese release since it has English subs. If so they can sod off.
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
I'm also surprised to see Origin riding so high in that list. Though in a way it makes sense, as Origin is such a staple of the "bargain/sale anime section" and has been for years now. I'm guilty of buying Origin for a few quid myself a couple years back (still not watched it...), I suspect that nearly every anime fan has been seduced by the bargain basement- "I must be getting a good deal with this"- charms of Origin at some point or another.
If it keeps selling at this rate for another 4/5 years, we might see a sequel commissioned due to it'd long term prospects.
If it keeps selling at this rate for another 4/5 years, we might see a sequel commissioned due to it'd long term prospects.
D
Deleted member 3446
Guest
Ahh I see what you mean. Well in that case, with the release of the anime legends, doesn't that indicate that manga have somehow lost the US rights?
It looks like that may be the case. The release of fate/zero selling well and garden of the sinners selling out just worries me more that they doing this strategy. With that said, the blu ray releases in Japan have been 3 years+ , normally with these types of releases they sell out but this clearly isn't the case with sites like yesasia still selling them. It's not like they were too expensive either, according to Japan rates, those sets are 'bargains', obviously meaning the strategy (if they are doing it) isn't working well.
ayase
State Alchemist
Yeah, but I don't think anyone has suggested differently - Only that they used to have them. Which may make it easier for Manga to obtain the rights again (the second tweet you posted above seemed to suggest it was pretty much a sure thing) but knowing Japan who can say?Remingleon said:
Remingleon said:
Most of the decent series with this strategy have sold fantastically. I'm not sure who exactly would buy AGE with the release format it was offered in as it seems to have been engineered to shed most of the established Gundam fans from the beginning. It's the kind of thing I'd only bother with if it had streamed and been fantastic or got an Anime Legends set from the beginning.
I'm pleased with Bandai Japan's current strategy though, as it gives those of us who want the show with subtitles an excellent alternative if no overseas license ever comes (or if we just want to see the show quickly and have the cash). Plenty of the shows which get premium, English-friendly Japanese releases do eventually trickle over here in cheaper forms. My theory is that because they come out so uncharacteristically promptly this way, the usual wait for a priced-down English edition feels even longer than ever.
I maintain that the BD version of Gundam Unicorn is a fantastic deal. You can buy it in the UK (from a very limited set of distributors) for thirty pounds a pop as a simultaneous release - not much more than a new release anime movie BD would be anyway. It even has a dub (for those of that persuasion), flawless video quality, no region lock, on-disc extras and no crippling authoring flaws introduced by bumbling foreign distributors. Of course, it sucks for those without BD, but I'm sure there'll be a cheap way to get it as a set once the series has finished its release. Let those of us who consider it well worth thirty quid a couple of times a year continue to enjoy this revolutionary new world of not being second class citizens in the anime universe, please.
R
Edit: Changed the prices to words as the forum bug is stupid.
ayase
State Alchemist
No-one wants to stop you from enjoying it Rui. I don't think they should stop releasing Japanese BDs with subs for those who want to part with that much cash, but I do think to apply Japanese price-points to international releases is rather exclusionary. Every economy is different and Britain is not Japan, we don't pay Japanese prices for anything else and I think it would be a shame if anime became something only a tiny minority of the population could afford to support legally.Rui said:
As for Unicorn, I'd pay twenty quid a disc for it no problem. Most people would probably only pay fifteen. But my main problem with this kind of pricing for popular titles is that surely, surely they would shift more than two copies at fifteen in the West for every disc they're currently selling at thirty? So it's less about making a profit than it is about protecting the Japanese consumer market. As the world economy continues to liberalise, there will come a time when that's no longer possible. If they carry on sticking to their current model, they'll be screwed unless they find a way to bring production costs down - which will ultimately have to happen in our globalised world as everyone in developed countries is going to have to take a pay cut anyway. But it won't be so bad, because the anime creators will be able to move their base of operations to a nice cheap unit on the outskirts of Kinshasa or Novosibirsk.
ayase said:
When these complaints come up though, it feels as though people do. It's not comparing apples to apples, to place a day one deluxe bilingual release alongside a typical 1-2 year delayed US/UK release with crippled video quality and missing content. I'm not saying all US/UK releases are like that, but a significant number are.
I think it's a great thing to have an early, premium release for people like me, and then a cheap and cheerful future release. But people crying out that the sky is falling over Unicorn (it hasn't even all been released yet, so of course they can't even announce a cheap set - bargain hunters don't fall over themselves to buy singles!) and, say, Fate/Zero (another import release with zero time delay) aren't being fair. I'm deliberately leaving AoA premium releases out as I have no idea what their future plans are and we could well see a priced-down bargain version of Durarara or Nisemonogatari in the next few years for the 'mass' otaku market once the premium audience has moved on and their loyalty has been assured. It's a betrayal to early adopters if the companies slash the prices too quickly, and it's a betrayal to the whole of anime fandom if the crazy devotion of those early adopters isn't harnessed to fund quality series any more. As the top sellers list on Alltheanime shows, most of what sells well is either Ghibli or other stuff I'm not interested in. With all due respect to fans of Origin and catalogue episodes of Shounen Jump adaptations, I don't want to live in a bargain bin future where that sort of content is all that can be viable for release.
There's absolutely no evidence that AGE getting English subtitles or Fate/Zero getting a premium import release means that it's impossible for a UK company to slap out a cheap boxed set over here. UK distributors have even said that they're interested in several of the titles, in spite of the extremely minor level of sales potential lost through the existing premium releases overseas.
However, in spite of Manga's constant trend-busting race to the bottom on price, even excluding NISA and AoA entirely it's plain that prices are heading up for the short term everywhere else, not down. I'm definitely getting much less anime for my $ when importing from Sentai née ADV these days than I used to because the prices have crept up since the old days (yet quality continues to fall with flimsy 'eco' cases, locked subs and 1080i BD encodes). Funimation's pricing is all over the place but even they, former champions of mass market appeal and dubs, have been exploring premium models and being slightly less aggressive in slashing prices on new licenses. And MB, the cheapest of the bunch, are being choked out of the market entirely.
It's a bizarre fluke that we're still getting such cheap anime over here (at the expense of BD and quality control for the most part). It may continue due to our status in the undesirable BD region as with Madoka Magica, and if it does, that's great. I'm not going to complain at a future where I can buy stuff I didn't import at a fraction of the price later on just because some daft people in suits think that region codes mean something.
But part and parcel of that cheapness is losing out on the quick release times and other bells and whistles elsewhere. I think that needs to be properly understood before people blame Bandai for doing exactly what they have learned they have to in order to make the most money from a swiftly-vanishing market in a digital world. It's not like they don't have all of the sales figures from all of those Anime Legends sets at their fingertips, and it's not like they're taking anything away from anyone. The fact that Bandai are letting Anime Limited announce a sexy new BD set of Cowboy Bebop so close to the release of the Japanese BD release says to me that they're more than happy to let people sell things directly to foreign markets and expand the audience for their content - if the foreign distributors are interested in working with them.
I would also say that from that certain infamous Jerome rant about the unnamed awful company he hated working with, the reason we aren't getting so many Bandai releases over here these days might be less an issue with Bandai's willingness and more an issue with the distribution network we rely upon here. There are probably all kinds of wonky corporate politics at work in the chain far beyond some deliberate plan by Bandai HQ to avoid selling any discs overseas.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's not a cut and dried matter of (say) Gundam AGE's Japanese release blocking a cheap UK release. It's an additional option that buyers can choose to take advantage of, or leave on the table. All that AGE having no subtitles would achieve is removing that one choice without getting anyone any closer to having it all bundled up into the cheap all-in-one collection that series probably ultimately deserves. The same can be applied to all of the other shows with expensive premium releases ahead of their natural US/UK release window.
R
Edit: Added a tl;dr statement at the end.
Note: I apologise to any distributors who may have licensed Gundam AGE whose hearts have been shattered by my tone. I don't think I ever quite understood Bandai's strategy with that particular series, and neither does anyone else if its sales and general cultural impact are taken into consideration. Surely releasing it at the same time as making a truly brilliant classic Gundam was just the final nail in the coffin.
ayase
State Alchemist
I've read and understand all your points Rui, even if I don't agree with all of them. Apologies if my reply feels a little meagre by comparison but we've probably had this discussion before anyway...
What I'm less happy with is the Japanese industry attempting to have it's cake and eat it by mandating overseas releases be overpriced or crippled (or both, as you've already acknowledged above) in order to protect their own market because it just isn't going to wash with consumers (Japanese or otherwise) in today's world. The reason for things like lower picture quality and locked subs is not because Western distributors are any worse or in order to make the end product cheaper but because the Japanese industry is insisting on it, like someone sabotaging the spinning jennies of more efficient factories in order to make sure they can still sell the more expensive cotton they're producing on their spinning wheel. We know what happened to the Luddites, and I'd much rather the Japanese industry face up to the emerging global marketplace than try in vain to hold back the tide.
And I don't claim to know that that's the case. I would just be concerned if it was the case, and Manga going from saying that all they need to release GitS: SAC on BD is the okay from Bandai to saying they have no plans to release it isn't exactly doing wonders for my optimism on that front. I'm not sure where the idea that I think Japanese releases shouldn't have English subtitles has come from - like I said, I'm more than happy for people to be have that choice.Rui said:
What I'm less happy with is the Japanese industry attempting to have it's cake and eat it by mandating overseas releases be overpriced or crippled (or both, as you've already acknowledged above) in order to protect their own market because it just isn't going to wash with consumers (Japanese or otherwise) in today's world. The reason for things like lower picture quality and locked subs is not because Western distributors are any worse or in order to make the end product cheaper but because the Japanese industry is insisting on it, like someone sabotaging the spinning jennies of more efficient factories in order to make sure they can still sell the more expensive cotton they're producing on their spinning wheel. We know what happened to the Luddites, and I'd much rather the Japanese industry face up to the emerging global marketplace than try in vain to hold back the tide.
Rosencrantz
Dragon Knight
ayase said:
The trouble is you've made the assumption that they have to sell to us. I could go to my local corner shop, pick some stuff up and the shop owner could quite legimately refuse to sell me the items. It makes sense for them to not allow their market to self destruct due to cheap imports.
I'm not saying I like gimped releases, i'm all for full features and max quality, but why should we get things so much cheaper?
Premium releases could be one avenue that lets them sell world wide from day 1 and also lets them skim a little off the price. Perhaps we've also become too greedy, time was we'd have to wait much longer for our Anime, quicker releases come at a price.
ayase
State Alchemist
But if most people thought the price of those items was too high and were able to steal them with little to no chance of reprisal, his business would be done for anyway. Even Japanese consumers themselves are starting to look outside their own economy and question Japanese prices, and some are even refusing to buy their own domestic releases.Rosencrantz said:
Fair observations, but this is the economic system we're living in. Free market capitalism is a high speed train racing to the bottom - and there's no getting off at stations, only packing more people in. Sort of horrifying and magnificent at the same time.Rosencrantz said:
ayase said:
Sure, and Manga aren't the best at not causing drama with their mysterious statements. However, I think the signs point to a much more boring possibility. I believe it was recently reported that the reason nobody has rescued Eva TV - a guaranteed steady seller - is because all overseas rights to the series are being held back pending completion of the Rebuild movies. If we consider that the Japanese companies arrange licensing freezes such as this deliberately to avoid confusion with newer titles (rather than refusing money for no good reason), this fits right in with the news about the new GitS series. They won't want to split everyone's attention between a sexy new remaster and a new series at the same time, especially as I believe that GitS is seen as a very marketable title in the west. It's been one of the highest profile adult anime titles in the UK since forever.
I have nothing to go on beyond my own suspicions, but there are plenty of other examples of mysteriously absent titles which are conspicuous in their lack of availability. For example, any distributor who saw so much as the opening credits for the new JoJo's Bizarre Adventure should have been asking about the rights to the older JoJo's OAVs - they're dubbed, out of print and some episodes are going for stupid amounts of money on the used market (e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JoJos-Bizarre ... 0786591750 http://www.amazon.com/JOJOS-BIZARRE-ADV ... 000ANT21A/ ). Even better, the story they cover comes after the new TV series, so lobbing a cheap license rescue into the market would be guaranteed money from all of the people interested in the smash hit new show. Yet they remain untouched. Even if they have to edit out a scene which caused a certain controversy some years back, I can't help but wonder if the rights simply aren't on offer.
R
manga_addicted95
Kiznaiver
just found out that a dub is being made for fate/zero, which will be streamed on neon alley
D
Deleted member 3446
Guest
Those are very fair points and they probably do make all those considerations (Heck I bet you're bang on with GitS as well). However the problem with premium releases like these is time. If a series is selling well, they'll only produce more units. This leads to the release in the west being delayed even further. Why would they would want to give the license if they are getting much higher profits from direct imports? It could even turn into an extreme case where they refuse to give the license for years knowing that a series is still selling well with their inflated prices. Say for example, there was a series that was of medium popularity in Japan, they decide to an import of the series and it sells generally well, the licensors decide to hold off the western release as a result. It's not the licensors themselves that are effected but the Western Distributors as the series may have lost the general interest of the potential audience for holding it off for so long.
Now I'm not one against these types of releases mainly for the reasons Rui said, however releases like these do possibly hold back the western release. Granted, cowboy bebop is an exception but that's because it's cowboy bebop, a series known for it's western appeal and popularity. The same would apply to series like Trigun. It's Japan that's the main problem here with those high costs, literally the rest of the world is different and it's not just something that's condensed to the anime market. One of the main reasons for Japan's declining population is the expense of living there. Like ayase said, until the production costs are lowered along with a few other nibbles, these problems will always persist.
Mangaranga
Za Warudo
I was underwhelmed at first because I didn't like the dub casting for FSN, then I watched the trailer and realised that the FSN characters have been recast.manga_addicted95 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl94WZWya-M
Is that Bosch I hear as the crazy murderer guy? Seems like a typical role for him.
The only thing which irks me so far is the 'Are you worthy of being my master?' line.
I do look forward to this being released. I hope Kaze and MVM stay the hell away from F/Z, and to a lesser extent MangaUK.
I want Anime limited to get this one, hopefully give it a worthy release, otherwise it'll be the inevitable AoA release for me.
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Manga UK have worked somewhat decently back from thier preception of "Those idiots who are only solvent thanks to Bleach and Naruto and really shouldn't be near a Twitter feed lest they start another fan war" and, indeed, thier Madoka release was perfectly servicable (as is thier role of Publishing Mule for Kaze).
MVM continue to pap out disks and covers that make their Chinese knock-off counterparts more enticing. A little bit of Photoshop wouldn't hurt, guys.
MVM continue to pap out disks and covers that make their Chinese knock-off counterparts more enticing. A little bit of Photoshop wouldn't hurt, guys.
Realistically though, if someone does put Fate/Zero out here dubbed they'll just be copying the materials from an overseas release, so it doesn't make all that much difference who does it. Tony (MVM) said he was interested in Fate/Zero back at the last London Expo and since he's said that while already knowing how well Stay Night did and he's not against BDs, there's no reason to think it won't get an equally nice release from them as from anyone else. MVM also said they also pick up the BD rights whenever they can now (even if a BD release isn't viable yet for whatever reason). The only down side to an MVM release would be the cover art being potentially less slick, which is a pretty weak reason to worry.
I'm happy with my undubbed sets but I think that MVM could handle a mass market release for F/Z just fine if they get the chance. The real people who would need hounding now are the ones who will create the discs, whether they're AoA or one of the Australian companies. That will have the biggest impact on the quality of the eventual UK repackage.
R
I'm happy with my undubbed sets but I think that MVM could handle a mass market release for F/Z just fine if they get the chance. The real people who would need hounding now are the ones who will create the discs, whether they're AoA or one of the Australian companies. That will have the biggest impact on the quality of the eventual UK repackage.
R