The Evangelion thread
- Thread starter Neil.T
- Start date
I just acquired the fifth and final volume today, so I can start reading at any point now. It's written by Eva mecha designer Ikuto Yamashita, and the man has a vivid imagination, so is apparently batsh*t crazy at times. I'm looking forward to it.
A lot of the more outlandish ideas in Rebuild are actually drawn from it.
As for the manga, my girlfriend owns the complete series, so I've read that. I absolutely love it, personally, and a whole bunch of Rebuild's more subtle touches are drawn from here, including its ending.
Do you think so? I would've thought that Neon Genesis Evangelion 2 for PlayStation 2 and PSP was more well known among fans, containing, as it does, the sought-after "Classified Information" files that add extra background story to the original series' setting.
There's also the semi-canonical Girlfriend of Steel, which introduces the Megumi Hayashibara (Rei)-voiced original character Mana Kirishima:
Girlfriend of Steel - EvaWiki - An Evangelion Wiki - EvaGeeks.org
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Iron Maiden
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Iron MaidenWP (新世紀エヴァンゲリオン鋼鉄のガールフレンド, Shin Seiki Evangelion: Kōtetsu no Girlfriend?) is a video game created by GAINAX based on the anime TV series Neon Genesis Evangelion. A new girl, Mana Kirishima (voiced by Megumi Hayashibara, the seiyuu of Rei Ayanami and Yui...
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While Girlfriend of Steel is known, I found that the Nintendo 64 game to be brought up a lot when it comes to Evangelion game talk and within the retro scene. I think the 64 version is more import-friendly than the others which may also help.
-Danielle-
Death Scythe
So after rewatching the series and finally watching The End of Evangelion (I had to read a lot after to understand what was going on at times; like I didnt realise End replaced eps 25 and 26 of the series for example), I’m now onto the first film of the rebuild and i hate that Prime has the new dub cast not the original. i’m worried the other 3 are the same? if i buy them, will it have the original?
The weird thing about the Rebuild of Evangelion dub cast on Amazon Prime is that the voices are mostly the same as the old dub.
| ADV (NGE) | Manga (NGE Films) | Funi (Rebuild) | Amazon (Rebuild) | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Shinji | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Asuka | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Rei | Yes | Yes | Yes | |
| Misato | Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Gendo | Yes (Director's Cut) | Yes | Yes | |
| Fuyutsuki | Yes | Yes | ||
| Shigeru | Yes | Yes | Yes | |
| Maya | Yes | Yes |
RaeDra
Straw Hat Pirate
Yea, many of the actors voices have changed (and the direction and adaptation is very different to the ADV dub) over the years and if you never watched the ADV Directors cut (or the Funi Rebuilds), John Swasey as Gendo would be very new to you. There are none of Netflix/VSI cast in that new dub. Plenty of new actors to the franchise in supporting roles and elsewhere.
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-Danielle-
Death Scythe
I absolutely hate Misato and Toji in this dub. The rest I can deal with. Dreading when I get to Asuka as she’s my favourite. I was hoping Audio options on Prime would give me a better choice but nay.
serpantino
Thousand Master
Currently sick so decided to watch the rebuilds over 2 days now that 3.0 + 1.01 is finally out. I loved them when they first released but the ridiculous delay to the last movie has killed a lot of that excitement & hype. Watching them now I found them much more disappointing.
I'll try not to hit any big spoilers so I won't be mentioning any specifics. This is just a few thrown around, random & messy thoughts and observations, the spoilers are pretty soft with no actual plot point discussion. I'm tired so expect poor grammar & excess waffle
.
I suspect anyone who hasn't seen the series will be lost & struggle with them as so little is adequately explained throughout.
So much character development is barely alluded to or glossed over entirely making characters a lot less sympathetic or relatable; for instance we get a brief visual hint of Asuka's past in 2.22 but little else until far later.
Ryoji Kaji suffers the most as he comes across as a creepy arse hole that would enrage the #metoo movement. (I'm aware 2.22 came out prior to all that).
3.0+1.01 seems to realise this absence of character development & devotes a lot of time (nearly half the movie) to it but it messes with the pace & feels like a desperate attempt to repair the lack of development that should have been spread across all 4 films to set a more consistent pace.
The jump to 3.33 seems sudden & jarring, I don't feel there was enough build up & another 30 minutes in 2.22 could have mitigated this (fleshing out Rei more at least & making Shinji's motivations more believable).
A lot of the dub is pretty lifeless compared to the series & terms aren't adequately explained, further leaving any 1st time viewers in the dark. OK the series dub was fairly over the top but it suited the melodrama.
I wish they'd just made Mari Makanima into Mana Kirishima from girlfriend of steel.
When Mari first came in that's who I thought she'd be but she just comes off as a more obnoxious Asuka who doesn't have the benefit of being fleshed out from the Eva series.
Laid back music track in 3.0+1.0 sounds just like a track in final fantasy 15?
The Eva curse is never really explained?
3.0+1.01 leaves a lot of unresolved elements/questions in the world building, technology & motivations.
The series is filled with intricate character development & reflection on the human psyche and desires with an intelligent story & fleshed out world.
The movies are just an absolutely stunning spectacle and little else; incapable of standing on their own without prior knowledge whilst simultaneously failing to equal or surpass their predecessor. They are enjoyable films but 3 & 4 don't stand up as well as 1 & 2 which themselves only really excel where they follow the original plot line/scenes.
Michael Bay does Evangelion (it could still happen but DiCaprio is a bit old now).
Eva Rebuild feels very much like Anno creating more masturbatory material for his own ego, especially towards the end. (Pretty sure I said similar about Shin Godzilla, there's easier/cheaper ways to get off Anno!)
I legitimately expected Anno to turn up as some deus ex machina/ultimate god being or have a scene where the characters look up & he's above them operating Shinji etc as puppets on strings.
I'll try not to hit any big spoilers so I won't be mentioning any specifics. This is just a few thrown around, random & messy thoughts and observations, the spoilers are pretty soft with no actual plot point discussion. I'm tired so expect poor grammar & excess waffle
. I suspect anyone who hasn't seen the series will be lost & struggle with them as so little is adequately explained throughout.
So much character development is barely alluded to or glossed over entirely making characters a lot less sympathetic or relatable; for instance we get a brief visual hint of Asuka's past in 2.22 but little else until far later.
Ryoji Kaji suffers the most as he comes across as a creepy arse hole that would enrage the #metoo movement. (I'm aware 2.22 came out prior to all that).
3.0+1.01 seems to realise this absence of character development & devotes a lot of time (nearly half the movie) to it but it messes with the pace & feels like a desperate attempt to repair the lack of development that should have been spread across all 4 films to set a more consistent pace.
The jump to 3.33 seems sudden & jarring, I don't feel there was enough build up & another 30 minutes in 2.22 could have mitigated this (fleshing out Rei more at least & making Shinji's motivations more believable).
A lot of the dub is pretty lifeless compared to the series & terms aren't adequately explained, further leaving any 1st time viewers in the dark. OK the series dub was fairly over the top but it suited the melodrama.
I wish they'd just made Mari Makanima into Mana Kirishima from girlfriend of steel.
When Mari first came in that's who I thought she'd be but she just comes off as a more obnoxious Asuka who doesn't have the benefit of being fleshed out from the Eva series.
Laid back music track in 3.0+1.0 sounds just like a track in final fantasy 15?
The Eva curse is never really explained?
3.0+1.01 leaves a lot of unresolved elements/questions in the world building, technology & motivations.
The series is filled with intricate character development & reflection on the human psyche and desires with an intelligent story & fleshed out world.
The movies are just an absolutely stunning spectacle and little else; incapable of standing on their own without prior knowledge whilst simultaneously failing to equal or surpass their predecessor. They are enjoyable films but 3 & 4 don't stand up as well as 1 & 2 which themselves only really excel where they follow the original plot line/scenes.
Michael Bay does Evangelion (it could still happen but DiCaprio is a bit old now
).Eva Rebuild feels very much like Anno creating more masturbatory material for his own ego, especially towards the end. (Pretty sure I said similar about Shin Godzilla
, there's easier/cheaper ways to get off Anno!)I legitimately expected Anno to turn up as some deus ex machina/ultimate god being or have a scene where the characters look up & he's above them operating Shinji etc as puppets on strings.
If something in the dubs is causing Mari to come across as obnoxious of all things, then there really is no hope for them. Mari is a bouncy and bright character in the original Japanese, but they somehow managed to distort her personality even in the original Funimation dub.
I intend to watch the Prime Video dubs soon. I can't imagine having a positive opinion of them, though, based on what I've read so far.
RaeDra
Straw Hat Pirate
I respect @Neil.T on your view about Mari and whether it's carried over correctly in the english language version (I don't quite agree because while Trina has a take on the character that might seem a little different, her quirks, general personality and singing are carried over imo), however (and i'll stick it in a spoiler just in case) I think someone could find her one sided, flirtatious interactions with or about Shinji potentially obnoxious .
It's funny, I remember seeing someone elsewhere (on the AUKN discord) recently describe Mari as "Asuka but with a devious side" which I don't agree with at all but they've only watched the Japanese version. Opinions can truly vary!
It's funny, I remember seeing someone elsewhere (on the AUKN discord) recently describe Mari as "Asuka but with a devious side" which I don't agree with at all but they've only watched the Japanese version. Opinions can truly vary!
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João Gomes
Thousand Master
Almost ready to join this over-and-done-with party!!! 
.... Where did everyone go, bingo?
I rewatched the first three movies over the last couple of days and they're still highly enjoyable. It feels rewarding to witness khara getting better and better at CG (as does the technology, of course) even if by the third movie it feels like there's more CG than hand-drawn animation.
Hoping the free prime video trial is hassle-free so I can at least start watching the final movie tomorrow. Very curious.
.... Where did everyone go, bingo?
I rewatched the first three movies over the last couple of days and they're still highly enjoyable. It feels rewarding to witness khara getting better and better at CG (as does the technology, of course) even if by the third movie it feels like there's more CG than hand-drawn animation.
Hoping the free prime video trial is hassle-free so I can at least start watching the final movie tomorrow. Very curious.
I had absolutely no problems signing up for it whatsoever, so hopefully you'll be good to go, dude.
Looking forward to reading your thoughts.
So this might interest some folks here who were critical of the Amazon dub, it seems Tiffany Grant (Asuka's VA) claims that Dan Kanemitsu, who was responsible for the dub for 3.0's re-dub, the Netflix dub and Amazon dub, is the reason why the dub result for all of them are awkward/inconsistent with the ADV & Funi 1.11/2.22 dub work.
thedoctor2016
Mushi-shi
I’m confused why did they come back… after 3.33 and Netflix it was obvious who would be the script writer..,
Geriatric hedgehog
Pokémon Master
Haha this party has only just started dude, everyone is just too speechless (most of us in a good way heh) after what we've witnessed. While I'm very happy with the main character resolutions, I suspect we'll be mulling over the hundreds of questions raised in relation to plot intricacies for a good while heh. I'll start with one:Almost ready to join this over-and-done-with party!!!
Is the Shikinami-series meant to have been Asuka clones all along from the very start of rebuild, as I seem to be reading online? My takeaway was that the clones were created from Asuka's remains after the destruction of Unit-04, as Ritsuko after seeing them was shown instructing the crew to keep them secret and confidential, hence the merged angel DNA/characteristics and associated fashionable eye-patch and also Asuka's physical age 14 years on from 3.33..
And adding my thoughts on the Mari character:
I actually thought of her as Asuka without all the emotional baggage & angst! I'm more with @Neil.T in that she came across as confident & vivacious. I just really wish she was developed a bit more, notwithstanding the fact that her whole purpose is supposedly to serve as an outsider from Eva to pull Shinji out or whatever, haven't got my head around that one yet. On another note, I saw the Anno documentary on the movie and I can certainly see the similarities with his wife in her short appearances. The first episode is just funny with how socially awkward Anno unsurprisingly is and how he spends most of his time on camera shoo-ing it away. The second is quite interesting with more focus on those around him, as he rightly instructs them to do, seeing as he has no intention of spilling any beans heheh.
Wow, if that image is authentic, then that is extremely damning. Right from first hearing the Funimation dub for 3.33, I can't say I've been a fan of his translation work. There's the occasional flash of inspiration (example: Fuyutsuki's line in 3.0+1.0, "Ikari, how will you bring the drama to a close?"), but the rest seems questionable at best, outright tone-deaf at worst, and... honestly? I really don't think Kanemitsu should ever have been put in charge of translating Evangelion into English.
Of course, Khara are very much at fault, too, for choosing him.
Yes, since the very start.
My initial take was the same as yours, when Asuka explains how limiters are put on Eva pilots at design time, causing them to have inefficient emotions, while the Ayanami series have theirs adjusted so that they'll be drawn towards Shinji. Asuka then meets her "original" after unleashing her Angel form, and that confirmed it for me: Asuka had her soul pulled out by the 9th Angel's invasion of Unit-03, leaving her body as an empty husk. I thought, too, that this was why this Asuka seemingly hadn't aged: it was just that she had been more recently closed from the original Asuka. I also thought that her very clear anger and bitterness was at having to exist because Shinji didn't save (or destroy) her original.
But that was all wrong, as Asuka's backstory later in the film showed. She was a clone from the very beginning. We see profile pictures of the series of clones on screen, and they're whittled down until only two remain. "Our" Asuka (the one from 2.22, 3.33 and 3.0+1.0), if I'm interpretating an on-screen NERV document correctly, appears to actually be the one who lost out. I'm not completely sure of this yet, though, so I need to watch the film some more.
The clincher, of course, is that 3.0+1.0 Asuka remembers very clearly what happened in the 9th Angel incident. Rei, meanwhile (in NGE, at least), does not remember what previously happened to her when a new clone is put into use: her soul is salvaged, but her memories are not.
Note, also, that Mari used the word "original" when she briefly spoke to Rei Q (as some fans refer to the 3.33 character as). In this case, Mari is surely referring to Yui, since Mari never spoke to the 1.11/2.22 iteration of Rei. Asuka, though, seems to be using the term "original" towards the other of the two clones (scarily, the "winning" one, presumably
). It is being speculated by some fans that the "winning" Asuka clone was used as the soul of Unit-02 just as Yui became the soul of Unit-01, but I'm not sure how much of the setting of NGE carries over to Rebuild.
Asuka encountering her "original" self within Unit-02 also helps to disprove the idea that 3.0+1.0 Asuka is cloned from 2.22 Asuka since 2.22 Asuka encountered the 9th Angel within a Dummy Plug inside Unit-03, not Unit-02.
Lastly for now, Asuka mentions (I seem to recall) in 3.0+1.0 that she's been surviving on water and doesn't need to eat. (Note that Rei didn't seem to eat often either.) Asuka also doesn't sleep. Well, I was fishing around on the Eva Fandom site for information and found this exhaustive selection of translation notes relating to the finale, and it turns out that in the development stages of the film, there was something else that the part-Angelic Asuka was unable to do:
evangelion.fandom.com
[Under "Assorted Tweets"]
Something I'm still trying to fathom, though, is that in that spectacular scene where Asuka force-feeds Shinji, she tells him that he's also a "mock Lilin" and that he still needs to eat "before your body stops growing".
My initial take was the same as yours, when Asuka explains how limiters are put on Eva pilots at design time, causing them to have inefficient emotions, while the Ayanami series have theirs adjusted so that they'll be drawn towards Shinji. Asuka then meets her "original" after unleashing her Angel form, and that confirmed it for me: Asuka had her soul pulled out by the 9th Angel's invasion of Unit-03, leaving her body as an empty husk. I thought, too, that this was why this Asuka seemingly hadn't aged: it was just that she had been more recently closed from the original Asuka. I also thought that her very clear anger and bitterness was at having to exist because Shinji didn't save (or destroy) her original.
But that was all wrong, as Asuka's backstory later in the film showed. She was a clone from the very beginning. We see profile pictures of the series of clones on screen, and they're whittled down until only two remain. "Our" Asuka (the one from 2.22, 3.33 and 3.0+1.0), if I'm interpretating an on-screen NERV document correctly, appears to actually be the one who lost out. I'm not completely sure of this yet, though, so I need to watch the film some more.
The clincher, of course, is that 3.0+1.0 Asuka remembers very clearly what happened in the 9th Angel incident. Rei, meanwhile (in NGE, at least), does not remember what previously happened to her when a new clone is put into use: her soul is salvaged, but her memories are not.
Note, also, that Mari used the word "original" when she briefly spoke to Rei Q (as some fans refer to the 3.33 character as). In this case, Mari is surely referring to Yui, since Mari never spoke to the 1.11/2.22 iteration of Rei. Asuka, though, seems to be using the term "original" towards the other of the two clones (scarily, the "winning" one, presumably
). It is being speculated by some fans that the "winning" Asuka clone was used as the soul of Unit-02 just as Yui became the soul of Unit-01, but I'm not sure how much of the setting of NGE carries over to Rebuild.Asuka encountering her "original" self within Unit-02 also helps to disprove the idea that 3.0+1.0 Asuka is cloned from 2.22 Asuka since 2.22 Asuka encountered the 9th Angel within a Dummy Plug inside Unit-03, not Unit-02.
Lastly for now, Asuka mentions (I seem to recall) in 3.0+1.0 that she's been surviving on water and doesn't need to eat. (Note that Rei didn't seem to eat often either.) Asuka also doesn't sleep. Well, I was fishing around on the Eva Fandom site for information and found this exhaustive selection of translation notes relating to the finale, and it turns out that in the development stages of the film, there was something else that the part-Angelic Asuka was unable to do:
This includes a cut line (apparently a mostly different scene from ... an earlier version of Part A) by Asuka saying she "can't even have sex".
Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Assorted Translations
This page was originally created as a mirror to Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Assorted Translations on EvaWiki, but is no longer maintained. Please see that page. This page contains translated interviews, notes, tweets and other materials regarding Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon A Time. The Evangelion New...
Something I'm still trying to fathom, though, is that in that spectacular scene where Asuka force-feeds Shinji, she tells him that he's also a "mock Lilin" and that he still needs to eat "before your body stops growing".
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RaeDra
Straw Hat Pirate
It's interesting, I thought Tiffany came off one of the least affected in these ones, particularly of the old cast. I won't pretend that stating this right after the movies are out is particularly sensible, especially as a career move. There are problems with that dialogue, and if they recorded them to fit in dialogue that doesn't match the lip flaps because of the supervisor saying no, that doesn't seem great.... AoA have middle men (though, not writers, just representatives) involved in their productions, and they don't turn out like that at all.
this is one of these things that I would like to know the process, there's no adaptive writer listed on any of these, so was it up to the director and actor? if it was, and if they were asked to rerecord lines later, it would explain the very awkward delivery at points and just going freeform at others (missing flaps). Even if that were the case of having an adaptive writer to time the flaps and general delivery was ok at times, there's some really awkward moments in that production anyway (not convinced that the ADR director doesn't have an amount of influence on the end product so it would be wrong to suggest they don't take some part of responsibility of the end product).
Regardless, not sure it's likely we will get a total explanation/tell all of all this stuff, just this kinda thing. Such a shame.
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Dai
Death Scythe
I think it was the same Asuka all along, since she had the same memories. Also, all of the pilots remained 14, thanks to that completely unexplained "curse of the Evas". And don't forget that Asuka turned into a ridiculously gorgeous 28-year-old in her final scene on the beach, once her Eva was gone.
Do we want to get into the potential metatextual reading of that whole idea as well, that the unageing is possibly a reference to the franchise's fans between NGE and Rebuild?
As Japanese as a language doesn't use articles (or even plurals in some cases), it allows for an interpretation of Asuka's line from 3.33 as both "the curse of the Evas" (referring to the mecha in-universe) and "the curse of Eva" (italicised, referring to the franchise itself).
You pointed out before, Dai, a similarity between 3.0+1.0's ending and RahXephon's. I pointed out earlier in this thread myself how the WILLE crew's outfits are practically identical to the pilots' in RahXephon. They're both the work of the same person:
But how much of this is simply down to sharing a designer, and how much is (partly) as I previously phrased it:
The lines blur.
As Japanese as a language doesn't use articles (or even plurals in some cases), it allows for an interpretation of Asuka's line from 3.33 as both "the curse of the Evas" (referring to the mecha in-universe) and "the curse of Eva" (italicised, referring to the franchise itself).
You pointed out before, Dai, a similarity between 3.0+1.0's ending and RahXephon's. I pointed out earlier in this thread myself how the WILLE crew's outfits are practically identical to the pilots' in RahXephon. They're both the work of the same person:
But how much of this is simply down to sharing a designer, and how much is (partly) as I previously phrased it:
The lines blur.