Simulwatch - Gunsmith Cats/Riding Bean/Bubblegum Crisis/Crash/AD Police/Parasite Dolls [all complete]

I think this episode improves the previous one retrospectively, as taken together they make a nice whole

100% agree. Also the longer format of the later episodes, I think, helps improve them. Theres more space and time for the character moments to breathe, the single episode characters can also get some development and we can still get a good dose 96f action to boot.

Speaking of which, how can I put this delicately without making it sound like I think you're all idiots* I find it... surprising that people wouldn't clock the Mason/Largo connection given that ending. Sylia's story is the thread that runs through everything even as stand-alone plots come and go - We know of her odd connection to both characters and in the end we see that Sylia is perfectly aware of who he was, I don't really see any other way her line could be taken.

I think for me it was so sudden, with no real foreshadowing that Largo was Mason, that made it not click for me. I took it more as another guy who knows something shady about Sylia. It added to the mystique of Sylia but I didn't really give it a second thought with regards to Largo.
 
Speaking of which, how can I put this delicately without making it sound like I think you're all idiots* I find it... surprising that people wouldn't clock the Mason/Largo connection given that ending.
Oi. I heard that. 😛

I think, for me, don't feel like I exactly have an unwavering confidence in Masami Obari's storyboarding and direction on that episode. Take the scene where Priss's Motoroid briefly looks like it's going to help during the fight against Largo as an example: the cut where it crackles before collapsing is (to me, anyway) somewhat poorly executed. Maybe it's partly the transfer of the original DVD at fault, but the image is so dark as to make it difficult to tell what you're actually looking at. Add to that, though, the fact that Obari had neglected to include any kind of establishing shot that would remind us what the face of a Motoroid looks like. The previous cuts in the episode mostly showed its robot form from the back. We didn't get to see where Priss "parked" it either, which further added to the problem for me. I'd honestly forgotten about it by that point.

The previous times I'd watched BGC, I'd likely watched a disc a day, so come the end of Obari's part 2, I'd probably gotten burned out on character names, and the name "Brian J. Mason" had likely gotten lost in the mélange. Or blancmange, as it probably was for me by then. 😅

As an unrelated thought on episode 6, it was after watching that that I finally placed Quincy's voice. I knew I'd heard him somewhere before, and it was as the far more cartoony Guame the Immovable in Gurren Lagann.


I’m glad they didn’t follow through on the mooted idea of having her take over from Priss. In part I just like that Priss is an honest to goodness punk, whereas Vision seems more like an idol singer, but I also find it hard to picture Vision having a place in the Knight Sabers. She has wealth, people and resources behind her, does she really need them? Perhaps this one would have been written differently if Priss had died after all.
I've never heard anything about this before. 😯
Is this something the creators actually had in mind, or is it fan speculation based on the brutality of episode 6?

Satoshi Urushihara is credited as guest character designer for this episode (are the faces a little softer generally or am I looking too hard?), but with her floofy bob and green fringe, she certainly has Sonoda's hallmarks. Stylistically, the two artists' work was quite similar around this time, so it could be a joint effort, I suppose.
I think, with Urishibara/hara also being episode 7's animation director, the artwork's gonna unavoidably lean towards his own particular stylings, irrespective of the look of the original character designs. I totally agree that the episode has somehow a different look to it. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable about the technical aspects of art to be able to comment on that, though.

As for Vision's design itself, I do think that Urushihara's (which spelling is correct anyway?) style is something that defines that particular era. Haruhiko Mikimoto of Macross, Gunbuster and Orguss fame springs to mind, too, as well as Junichi Watanabe, who was character designer on Dangaioh and Iczer-1.
 
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Double post, but...


Bubblegum Crash episode 1

♪ Groly, groly, hallelujah... ♪

God
I hate having to watch anime dubbed. 😩

Anyway, cracking on with it, we see in this series's recurring opening title sequence that the script is credited to someone called Arii Emu, but that is in fact a pseudonym. (Arii Emu = R.E.M.)
I guess the intent is somewhat similar to Gundam makers Sunrise and their house pseudonym Hajime Yatate.
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I wonder whether he had anything to do with naming this high-rise cafe:
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I mean, where else would you go to drink coffee?

And in other news, now that we've moved into Crash, Boomers are called "Voomers", and the Knight Sabers' upgraded hardsuits have a new inbuilt butt clencher to aid in fanservice adjusting the wearer's posture for optimum combat performance, as well as a new "landing" sound effect emitted by their cuty feet.
 
Wait are we starting Crash today?
That was the idea. It's on YouTube if you dont have another way to watch it!

Bubblegum Crash episode 1
It was interesting to go from Crisis on blu ray to Crash on DVD. Dont know if it's the quality or just the way the shows are made but Crash is so much darker! At times it was kinda hard to actually know what was happening. Also it was weird going from the US dub on Crisis to the UK dub for Crash. The Nene actress in particular was much worse! And having Priss just be different was kinda off putting.

Anyway onto the actual show. I enjoyed this re entry to the Bubblegum world. I liked how the first 10 mins we followed the AD police and how it reestablished the world and its rules. It was also cool to see the AD lot suit up and roll out. Reminded me a bit of Dominion. Which made me think the AD Police could use a tank division with what they have to go up against!

It was also cool to see how this world uses advertising. We see a few in the episode and the very propaganda heavy AD police recruitment ad was quite notable in they way it depicts the police as action heroes who have it all. Whereas we see how much they really struggle and how underfunded and supported they are. A lot like our police force really.

It was odd that generally there was less fan service but then they still went with the butt squish suit up and decided that the girls briefing room would also double up as a sauna.
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Bubblegum Crisis: Episode 7 - Never the End, but you can see it from here.

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We now return to your scheduled programming. This is what you call an opening sequence.

I do actually like this episode a lot - It looks great, the action is brilliantly animated and it has particularly strong songs, but we are seeing the beginning of the end of BGC here... This was very clearly intended as an introductory episode for Vision - Her mirror introduction, the fact she basically is Priss in her music video and the way the plot creates a bond between her and Linna over Irene (was this really planned so far in advance that they obscured Irene's surname on her gravestone back in episode 2? Unfortunate that when we do see it, it reads "Can" rather than "Chang") are all very well done. However, she not only didn't become a main character but never even got the chance to show up again. So it does in some ways feel like a lot of build-up for a payoff that never happened. Now I love Priss (and Oomori's songs) but I think a heroic death and passing on of the mantle wouldn't have been a bad way for her to go out, and it would have given this story a bit more impact.

I don’t dislike Vision at all, but I’m glad they didn’t follow through on the mooted idea of having her take over from Priss. In part I just like that Priss is an honest to goodness punk, whereas Vision seems more like an idol singer, but I also find it hard to picture Vision having a place in the Knight Sabers. She has wealth, people and resources behind her, does she really need them?
I think the whole thing about Vision basically only agreeing to take over the syndicate because they would help her get her revenge would probably have played a part in explaining this - When Linna takes off her syndicate ring at the end and replaces it with Irene's, that feels like a break with them too.

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The Bright Slap never goes out of style.

I've never heard anything about this before. 😯
Is this something the creators actually had in mind, or is it fan speculation based on the brutality of episode 6?
There are sources for some of this (however some things I remember reading I can no longer seem to find) but what's clear is that the original plan was for Oomori to leave the series at this point, ostensibly to focus on her music career, but it's possible Youmex (as a subsidiary of Toshiba EMI and provider of the artists and the songs for BGC) may have simply wanted to promote another artist - If the series had run for the intended thirteen episodes, that's a long time to be promoting the same artist. I'm not certain at what point ARTMIC and AIC would have become aware Youmex was pulling the plug on their support for the show (presumably there would have been at least some discussion on this, if it was known there was only going to be one more episode the idea of bringing in a new main character would probably have seemed less appealing).

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Richard Wong is on LinkedIn. Shifty corporate experience: SCHAFT Enterprises, GENOM Corporation.

I do wonder what they would have done to write Priss out though, if they had gone down that route. Would she have died in the fight with Largo? That would have placed a hell of a downer on the show.
I can't imagine they would have killed off Priss in Episode 6 - That arc would have been seriously bleak if Sylvie, Anri and Priss had all ended up dead. So I have to believe that either the next episode would have been very different or that this episode once had a very different second half (plus if there had been thirteen episode that would have given us six Priss episodes, six Vision episodes and one in which they both featured which would have nicely balanced the series into two halves). I think "Never the End" itself perhaps even supports the idea it would have happened in this episode - It's a kind of sad but hopeful song of new beginnings, probably more suited to being a potential song of mourning for Priss and the beginning of Vision's new life as a Saber than being used in the context of a stadium concert. And "Say Yes" is so stirring and I can only think it as a song about giving up on her quest for revenge to be the hero.

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"Come on down to Crazy Quincy's House of Boomers, we're give-GENOM away!"

While we're on the subject, was wanting revenge against Quincy, of all people, really that bad a thing? I mean we're talking about the guy who bears ultimate responsibility for somewhere close to 90% of the terrible things that have happened in the show. I think if I was the Sabers I'd have just let Vision kill him, if not helped out.
 
Bubblegum Crash Episode 1

It was jarring going from the nice Blu Rays to watching a YouTube rip. The dub wasn’t that good and I wish I had it on DVD due to poor internet but otherwise the episode itself was decent and the overall tone didn’t feel too different from Crisis.
 
Bubblegum Crisis Episode 8 - Scoop Tendency

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I'd frame that, not even kidding.

Confession time: this is my favourite episode. Accusations of Nene being a prototype moe character are not unfounded, but this is Bubblegum Crisis at its most playful and self-referential, so her bizarre adventure is great fun. In terms of art design, it's also one of the best looking episodes, for my money - everything is rendered in warm pastel tones that give it a distinct look separate from the rest.

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I want pictures of the Knight Sabers! And Spiderman.

It's a well written episode too. Everyone gets a chance to contribute in some fashion that feels meaningful, without feeling shoehorned in. I do wonder if they already knew the plug was pulled at this stage, especially given how Sylia's dialogue to Lisa feels like it's encapsulating the entire show in a nutshell, before the rather arch comment about how expensive it is to keep all this going.

About those Japanese Blu-Rays though; I remembered the AWO posting a screengrab years ago that I am sure was from the original BD release so here it is (nasty band on the right, though) :

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And here's my rip of the same scene for comparison:

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Interesting choice of reading.

It does also remind me that for (quite literally) years now, I've been threatening to sit down and properly play the BGC adventure game. Strictly speaking, there are two, but I believe only the second one was ever translated into English. It appears to have been a tie in at the time Crash came out, but I'm not entirely sure whether it follows the plot of the series or not - about all I can definitely tell you is that you play as Nene.

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Into the episode proper, Vision seems to be appearing in the drive-in movie (which looks to be some kind of RoboCop/Bubblegum Crisis mash-up)

Vision appearing in Priss's hardsuit is a bit cheeky. Is this what might have been? If we're really deep diving that one, maybe the appearance of RoboCop is a sign they considered adapting The Man Who Bites His Tongue as a Vision episode...

There are sources for some of this (however some things I remember reading I can no longer seem to find) but what's clear is that the original plan was for Oomori to leave the series at this point, ostensibly to focus on her music career, but it's possible Youmex (as a subsidiary of Toshiba EMI and provider of the artists and the songs for BGC) may have simply wanted to promote another artist - If the series had run for the intended thirteen episodes, that's a long time to be promoting the same artist.

The version I've always heard is that there was a dispute regarding Oomori's contract, so Priss was to be written out, but this was either stated in the press at the time, or the fans otherwise got wind of it, leading to an outcry, so they negotiated to keep Oomori instead. No idea what the source is for that or how accurate it is though. It certainly seems entirely possible that they did just want to get another singer onboard. Aside from it being a long run for one artist, the record execs might have been offering more money to promote someone else.

The dub wasn’t that good and I wish I had it on DVD due to poor internet but otherwise the episode itself was decent and the overall tone didn’t feel too different from Crisis.

Would it be worth taking a break for a day or two for the sake of checking our collective options on this? I have a VHS for the first episode of Crash, but I was considering picking up the UK DVD. I don't mind if folk would rather crack on though.

Also worth mentioning that I believe there are actually two dubs in circulation. Neil mentioned 'Voomers', which is a tic from Manga UK's version, but an AnimEigo appear to have dubbed it with the same cast from Crisis. I think their version would only be on the R1 DVDs though.

Looking ahead, FWIW, Manga UK's dub for AD Police Files is much better than the AnimEigo effort. AnimEigo's is particularly flat for that one, iirc.
 
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Bubblegum Crisis: Episode 8 - Get me pictures, pictures of Knight Sabers Damn it Prof, stop stealing my lines!

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Episode 8 is a very nice sendoff for a series cut too short. It's quite a bit more lighthearted in tone but by following Lisa's interactions with the Sabers ,we get to see them through the eyes of an ordinary person and appreciate them all the more for it. It reminds me of the more personal stories sometimes found in superhero comics (which are often some of the better ones) and it works very nicely.

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It also seems fitting that the last episode should focus on Nene, seemingly the most unremarkable and put-upon member of the group, but following her along with Lisa we get to see how hard she does work and how much she does matter to the team. Lisa's lack of subtlety following Nene around also makes for some good comedy - Leon's obliviousness continues, he couldn't suss out Priss and despite making the connection with her disappearing during Boomer attacks he still can't figure out Nene either. Gotta love the montage with the clearly YMO inspired "Funky Doll" music in the middle too, it might be 1991 in the real world at this point but it's still very much the '80s in 2033.

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Whether or not ARTMIC had already made the (ultimately catastrophic) decision to carry on without Youmex at this point I don't know, but it's nice that this episode doesn't fall into the trap some cancelled series' do of trying to tie up all the lose plot threads in too little time. It does seem conscious of letting all the main characters get a look in, but it doesn't feel forced like it could have done. While Sylia does give a bit of a Knight Sabers: Why We Fight infodump it doesn't feel too out of place being delivered to Lisa in that context.

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"I was just on my way to be invested in the House of Lords, mind if I sit on a couch in this dingy alley with you for a while?"

It's a nice touch that when we see inside Sylia's 300 SL it's been augmented with modern tech in the rear, which is the sort of thing we're increasingly going to see more of and is not a bad prediction for the 2030s at all (and notice the film they're watching! The closest Vision got to becoming a Knight Saber). Another nice technical detail was showing what's presumably the powerful computer built into Nene's Hard Suit overheating and needing to vent and cool down before she could do any more.

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So, Bye Bye My Crisis, that intro brings a single tear to my eye every time - It's always nice to take a trip back to a better time and always a little sad when it's over. But who knows? The way things are going in the world politically I think we can expect the 2020s to look a lot like the 1980s, I can only hope that might at least point to them being culturally similar as well.

One other thing I did while this disc was in was to sit down and properly watch through the line art gallery, which makes me a little sad this release didn't come with an artbook like AnimEigo's later releases. There's tons of great stuff in there including the bustiest Priss you've ever seen:

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Accusations of Nene being a prototype moe character are not unfounded
I'm far from convinced on that point - I think there are Gall Force characters far more guilty of that than Nene. Being cute and kind does not a moe character make, to my mind the foremost characteristic of a moe character is being pathetic, which I really wouldn't consider Nene to be.
 
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Bubblegum Crash: Episode 1 - Illegal Anime

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Yep, it's still the '80s.

The version I've always heard is that there was a dispute regarding Oomori's contract, so Priss was to be written out, but this was either stated in the press at the time, or the fans otherwise got wind of it, leading to an outcry, so they negotiated to keep Oomori instead. No idea what the source is for that or how accurate it is though. It certainly seems entirely possible that they did just want to get another singer onboard. Aside from it being a long run for one artist, the record execs might have been offering more money to promote someone else.
Whatever the reason for her departure, she's gone by the time Crash rolls around. If it was a contract issue it's unlikely EMI/Youmex would have allowed her to return to work on a series they regarded as the illegal use of an IP that was part owned by them. For those unfamiliar, this is something which would eventually bankrupt ARTMIC and bring Crash to an even more premature end than Crisis, ruining Youmex in the process by making them liable for all the unpaid debt ARTMIC had run up in a serious case of Pyrrhic victory (the way Sonoda tells it, the two companies were co-signatories of loans during their partnership so upon ARTMIC being declared bankrupt and shuttered, the responsibility for paying that debt passed entirely to Youmex). This led to Toshiba EMI winding up Youmex and selling their IPs (including the entire BGC franchise) to AIC, the only production partner of BGC still in business. Who then then went on to make BGC Tokyo 2040, so in short everything went about as badly as it possibly could have (I tell a lie, it could have been worse).

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You're all gonna talk about it, but not one of you is willing to post it.

Regardless of who was in the wrong, the lack of Youmex involvement in Crash can be felt on two fronts, budget and music. While the characters stay pretty much on-model, the animation quality and art detail is not a patch on Crisis. While it's obvious some scenes are still quite lovingly animated (particularly the buttock-clenching Hard Suit assembly cutaway, which is actually really nice from both a tech porn and just good old regular porn standpoint) they're much more rare and there are a lot more static and panning/zoom shots with little or no animation. The backgrounds look cheap. Even a lot of the action scenes feel a bit boring, there's lots of muzzle flashing and things exploding but it doesn't really get good until the Knight Sabers come into it about 10 minutes from the end and even then, it ain't what it used to be. The fluidity of the BCG animation is largely gone.

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What is perspective?

Then there's the music. The into's decent enough, but it's not a patch on the BGC tunes and the rest of the music is utterly forgettable (Priss, what happened to you, difficult second album?). So it is that the combination of great music and animation that set BGC apart from the rest of the anime of this era are gone, and we're left with something relatively unremarkable.

It felt quite out of character for Priss and Linna to care so little about the Knight Sabers disbanding and Sylia's whereabouts (I like to think that after meeting up again and learning about the new directions of their careers, Sylia purposely ruined them both from the shadows to keep them focused on the Sabers). In some ways this is really more of an AD Police episode with Leon, Daley and Nene doing the bulk of the work.

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At least Linna finally got that new car she wanted.

Things I do like about this episode are that at least Sonoda's character designs are intact and most of the original cast returned. The idea of Boomers now starting to become a part of everyday life, creating a sense of trepidation that they might be taking over in a more mundane (rather than a violent) way which Leon and Daley discuss is an interesting development. If it wasn't for Crisis being so good, I'd probably be more forgiving of Crash. But Crisis was that good and that Youmex provided music and dosh is sorely missed.

Re: Timing of watching - I'm posting this episode now (I've started, so I'll finish) but I'm unlikely to get the time to watch any more until probably Monday evening. That said, I'm easy about what others do.
 
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Bubblegum Crash Episode 1

It was jarring going from the nice Blu Rays to watching a YouTube rip. The dub wasn’t that good and I wish I had it on DVD due to poor internet but otherwise the episode itself was decent and the overall tone didn’t feel too different from Crisis.
To be honest the DVD just isnt great quality to begin with. And you're right going from the Crisis blu ray to Crash DVD was very jarring. Crash seems too dark like the contrast is too low.

Also I may be wrong, and @Neil.T can correct me if I am, but it seemed to me the DVD only had the English dub on it fyi. (I looked at changing language while the episode was playing and it wouldnt let me) If AnimEigos postage wasnt so ludicrously high it'd be a no brainer to buy their version.

Would it be worth taking a break for a day or two for the sake of checking our collective options on this? I have a VHS for the first episode of Crash, but I was considering picking up the UK DVD. I don't mind if folk would rather crack on though.
Re: Timing of watching - I'm posting this episode now (I've started, so I'll finish) but I'm unlikely to get the time to watch any more until probably Monday evening. That said, I'm easy about what others do.

I happy to put it on hold. Ultimately whatever works best for the sake of actually discussing the episodes really. If people can decide on what they are doing with both Crash and AD police it would be useful though, then I can update the first post with start/continuation dates for both. Parasite Dolls is a trickier one as it's hard to buy so may be a watch on youtube for most anyway.

(Incidentally as I've started Crash and it's only 3 episodes I may watch them, write down my thoughts and save them to post on a day we all agree on)
 
Not sure how much you want to pay, but there's quite a lot of copies on eBay for £12-£16 with free postage.
Yeah I noticed this and was wondering if their DVDs were any better overall than Manga’s.

I am happy to put it on hold. Ultimately whatever works best for the sake of actually discussing the episodes really. If people can decide on what they are doing with both Crash and AD police it would be useful though, then I can update the first post with start/continuation dates for both. Parasite Dolls is a trickier one as it's hard to buy so may be a watch on youtube for most anyway.

(Incidentally as I've started Crash and it's only 3 episodes I may watch them, write down my thoughts and save them to post on a day we all agree on)
I personally wouldn’t mind a few days off to source a dvd copy of Crash, same with AD police.
 
Well we will officially go on hold for a few days then and when HWR's copies arrive we will continue.

The intention will be to run straight through Crash, AD Police and Parasite Dolls one after another.
 
I’ll try and source some copies as soon as possible. Already found a copy of AD police for around £5.
 
While we're on a break, I'd like to take a moment to mention how much I've enjoyed going through Bubblegum Crisis again with you guys. I'd somehow taken it into my head that it was more memorable for its significance in the history of anime production and fandom than it was as a viewing experience in its own right, so I was pleased to find it was a much stronger show than I thought I remembered.

For anyone who hasn't seen either AD Police or Dolls before though and may be considering buying them, a brief word of warning. While there's nothing more extreme than what we've been watching in visual terms, the violence in both is frequently far more sexualised than anything in mainline BGC. We're not talking Urotsukidoji here, it's more unpleasant by theme and implication, but if anyone's put off by that, it's something to be aware of.
 
While we're on a break, I'd like to take a moment to mention how much I've enjoyed going through Bubblegum Crisis again with you guys.
It's been a pleasure as always, Prof. 🙂
And there's still more to watch.

I'll make my confession here that Bubblegum Crisis has never been in my top tier of anime, but I'm thoroughly enjoying this ongoing simulwatch. It's great to get the chance to revisit some classic Sonoda-designed works and take them apart and look at them from different angles.

Here's to the rest of the titles in this current run. 👍

So, yeah, while we're paused, a chance to drop in some musings on Crisis...

the plot creates a bond between her and Linna over Irene (was this really planned so far in advance that they obscured Irene's surname on her gravestone back in episode 2?
The surname was so conspicuously obscured over that I think that's got to have been in the grand plan since the start, surely. Having forgotten about later developments in the series, I did find myself wondering why it was covered over like it was.

what's clear is that the original plan was for Oomori to leave the series at this point, ostensibly to focus on her music career, but it's possible Youmex (as a subsidiary of Toshiba EMI and provider of the artists and the songs for BGC) may have simply wanted to promote another artist
I feel like I'm p*ssing on the parade a bit with this, which I'm always reluctant to do, but... in the interests of all-encompassing discussion, has anyone else noticed how Ōmori... really isn't the greatest voice actor? 😬

Knowing as little as I do about the behind-the-scenes aspects of the series (and everything I do know about it now has been learned from this very thread), I honestly wasn't aware that she was actually a singer by trade. It makes sense now.

It doesn't really surprise me that this was her only anime voice-acting role. 😬

'Voomers', which is a tic from Manga UK's version
It is indeed. Wait till you see my Crash episode 2 post. 😅

Manga UK's dub for AD Police Files is much better than the AnimEigo effort.
Wow, really? 😯
Even though Manga went as far as to change Leon's surname in their dub?
 
I feel like I'm p*ssing on the parade a bit with this, which I'm always reluctant to do, but... in the interests of all-encompassing discussion, has anyone else noticed how Ōmori... really isn't the greatest voice actor? 😬
I really don't know how I'd ever be able to tell whether someone speaking a language other than English was a good voice actor or not. It's probably one of several upsides of watching anime subbed for me, I tend to find most English VAs to be pretty awful actors but in Japanese, I can't tell.

All I can judge a Japanese VA by is whether the sound of their voice is appealing to me or not, and hers very definitely is in both singing and speaking - It's got that slightly scratchy quality to it that singers who really belt it out a lot tend to get (or people who smoke too much, possibly both).

The only time Japanese VAs tend to bother me is when I find the sound of their voice grating, which is usually when they’re trying to be very “cutesy” or have a really nasal voice. Both of which annoy me equally as much in English speakers.

I'd like to take a moment to mention how much I've enjoyed going through Bubblegum Crisis again with you guys.
Likewise, and I'm glad you enjoyed it more than you expected Prof. Though re-reading your post on Episode 8 now that I'm more awake, I'm a little spooked at how we seem to have been writing almost the same things at around the same time...
 
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