Relationships and Romance

[Neil.T]

People are fake - We're products in just the same way machines are

Perhaps this is just the romanticised view of someone who's never even been in love. (Because I'd regard love to be only a two-way thing.) But: I absolutely refuse to give up on my humanity until my last breath. There's my natural stubbornness and bloody-mindedness at play again.

I do absolutely and whole-hearedly agree with this, though:

past experience has taught me that time and care I invest in people results in zero payoff and considerable harm to myself.

And yet, against all common sense and logic, I still keep on trying somehow. We'll see how my stubbornness pans out in the final reckoning, I suppose.

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

I've had enough of trying and failing at this, it's too painful and soul crushing (to tie in to what @Captaaainuniverse said on the previous page, yes I've given up. I'm perfectly fine and confident in social situations (now) but I just never find that anyone I have feelings for has any for me) I no longer even care if it's fake. I don't think I could even tell the difference because in the back of my mind I'd probably believe it was fake even when coming from a real person. I expect relationships with people to come to end and the thought that I'm wasting my time or that I'm going to be left alone again will always be there. In general I don't trust people. I don't believe they're being genuine or honest, and past experience has taught me that time and care I invest in people results in zero payoff and considerable harm to myself. I don't know how I would cure something like that now, I can't just start believing in them again and be all chipper about it. The rot has set in and the parts of my belief system that have rotted away are gone forever.

Maybe it's just because I haven't gotten into a relationship before and thus haven't been burned by it, but giving up on the concept entirely would just depress me. Hell, I thought I had given up until some time recently, but then feelings started to develop for someone new, and all those feelings of resentment and rejection of romance were instantly eroded. I realised that even if I try to convince myself I've given up, I never truly, in my heart of hearts, actually do so. Nothing will likely happen, and if nothing does, it'll probably suck, but I can still cherish the feelings that it has given me up to this point. I can say that about all the girls I have gotten close to in the past only for it to wind up at a dead end, I at least got to experience some moments of hope and joy for a brief while, and that, to me at least, is worthwhile.

 

[Neil.T]

@IncendiaryLemon: I wish I'd been capable of expressing thoughts like that so clearly in my 20s!

 

[ayase]

I realised that even if I try to convince myself I've given up, I never truly, in my heart of hearts, actually do so.

Other way around for me.

I mean let me make it clear I'm not trying to convince other people to give up here, if you and Neil still have that hope and still try that's probably a positive thing. It might work out for you, it does for most people I guess - They get lucky or they settle. But not everyone. And the clock is now slowly but surely ticking down for me towards the point where I'll no longer find people of my own age attractive so unless I can somehow Fujishima this, it's AIs and robots for me (yeah, of course real people physically age, that's yet another problem with us).

 

[Neil.T]

if you and Neil still have that hope and still try that's probably a positive thing.

Haa... I think in my case "hope" is far too strong a word! If nothing else, though, last year's disappointment's given me unexpected inspiration to tackle a bit of a creative project for the first time in my life. And that is something that's valuable to me.

 

[Vashdaman]

Ugly isn’t a problem. Pathetic certainly can be, though nobody is inherently pathetic and it’s a label that isn’t immediately obvious in the vast majority of cases. And unattractive is sort of the result determined by someone else’s judgement, rather than a fixed starting point. I’m sure we all have famous hunks and beauties we personally don’t find attractive, right?

I do think that worrying over looks only makes sense if you yourself only find looks attractive in a mate. And it’s been said before that that genuinely is what floats a lot of people’s boats. Personally I’m very unappealing visually so I’m a strong believer in playing to other strengths!

(Incidentally I don’t think my partner is the most handsome person I’ve ever seen. How can anyone possibly compete with all of these anime/game characters that way?)

R

All I can do is quote this again. Great post.
As someone who has suffered from some pretty annoying bouts of Body Dysmorphia in my life, I do understand people's feelings of unhappiness with their bodies. But yeah, it's only a very small part of what comprises us, it's the most immediately visible perhaps, but when you speak to someone and get to know them a bit all those other qualities come to the fore and are vastly more pertinent to the vast majority of people I'd wager.

I use to be pretty unhappy when I'd think about my mug too much, but I like my personality somewhat thankfully, so when I think of myself I think about those things that actually define me rather than my appearance which I was just born with and have no control over. Play to your strengths, we all have different ones.

@ayase Come on ayase, you aren't that old, you're hardly at risk of accidentally breaking a hip from getting too frisky with a sprightly old girl. Maybe if you were that old I'd understand, but I reckon you may well rue saying that when you really are that age. And as we age, our tastes tend to mature with us, I reckon.

 

[ayase]

Come on ayase, you aren't that old, you're hardly at risk of accidentally breaking a hip from getting too frisky with a sprightly old girl. Maybe if you were that old I'd understand, but I reckon you may well rue saying that when you really are that age. And as we age, our tastes tend to mature with us, I reckon.

I think possibly the worst thing from my personal point of view is that I'm already choosy about who I spend my time with just as friends - It's rare enough to find people I like spending time with in the first place. And in recent years (since this thread first started is probably a fair timescale) whenever I've met anyone who's company I enjoy enough to consider them potential love interests, without fail while I'm doing the whole "getting to know them better" shtick everybody says is normal and important, they end up in a relationship with someone else. Proving they never looked at me in the same way I looked at them. And I have no desire to wait to be someone's rebound. Plus the older people get the fewer of us are left single, and there must be reasons why I'm one of the ones who is. So as great as it is for people to be positive about themselves, all I can ever think is that there must be enough negatives about me to mean I'm not attractive to people I thought pehaps I was attractive to, if only potentially. It doesn't matter how attractive I think I am - If I don't receive any evidence other people find me attractive (who aren't just friends or relations who are trying to cheer me up) it just seems like I'd be deluding myself to believe that.

Maybe it's not even age. It's just tiredness and feeling worn out at the same things happening again and again and little enthusiasm left to keep repeating the same scenario and thinking anything will be different.

 

[Neil.T]

Jesus, @ayase has seemingly plucked the very thoughts out of my head again as I was sitting typing a post here.
The entire thing applies to me, too. (Bar the "they end up in a relationship with someone else" part. Actually, perhaps I can even top that in terms of an unexpected plot twist in one case.)


Also, to add to this from before:

I absolutely refuse to give up on my humanity until my last breath.

Of course I admit that, the sooner that comes, the easier it'll be to keep this promise.

It's just tiredness and feeling worn out at the same things happening again and again and little enthusiasm left to keep repeating the same scenario and thinking anything will be different.

I was just pondering how it'd make the time a lot easier to fill if it was easier to find much value in the things I spend my days doing, but that's become increasingly difficult. Various pursuits have fallen by the wayside over time as that inescapable sense of pointlessness began to creep in. The process leaves behind a familiar hollow feeling in its wake.

(Happy 2018.)

 

[Adam-M]

Well this thread's gone all nice and cheery

 

[IncendiaryLemon]

Well this thread's gone all nice and cheery

Doesn't it always?

 

[Neil.T]

Well this thread's gone all nice and cheery

Whoops. (Partly) my bad.

But... you know.

Yeah.

 

[Foxfire-Nova]

Very long post ahead, but it seems a relevant place to talk about this;

I'm 24 and I've been single for quite a while and although I'm not ENTIRELY inexperienced, I'm still a virgin and incredibly bored of it. It's not something I'd be ashamed to admit, though it's not exactly something I'd want everybody to know. It's not like I've never had chances to lose it, I have quite a big social circle and I'm always up for meeting new people, I'm outgoing and although I do have socially awkward times, they're less frequent than they used to be. I have autism as well, which makes all this stuff automatically a little harder - although I literally just got diagnosed with it earlier this year even though I've known for years, so I've not really "grown up, thinking of myself as different" if that makes sense?

Anyway, I know people who have liked me in the past and I've had people fall for me simply by having a conversation with them, some before they've even met me - so I must be doing SOMETHING right. So, you're probably thinking, if I'm outgoing, friendly and I've had some admirers in the past, there's obviously guys here that have it much worse than me, right? So what's the problem?

Well here it is - I've grown up with a COMPLETELY different understanding to what love is than most people.

Let me explain - you know how, when you're a kid, you're very naive and you'll believe pretty much anything your parents tell you because you're convinced they're some sort of all-knowing messiahs? Well, you know as well how your parents will shower you with praise about how "handsome" and "beautiful" and "perfect" their children are? Well, combine both of those with an autistic brain that takes a lot of things literally - I think you can see where this is going...

Basically, I've grown up thinking I'm this super-attractive, amazingly-hot guy who all the guys want to BE and the girls want to BE WITH. Not just that, pretty much all these years I've been under the impression that my looks, ALONE, were enough so that every girl and her relatives would be flocking to me and want to speak to me - and by speak, I obviously mean date and/or sleep with. I'm also very tall (6"4), which only strengthens this attitude since it's generally accepted that taller people are more attractive.

In short, I've lived my life all this time pretty much thinking that attraction is all physical, and since I was given the impression from a very young age that I'm top pick of the crop, I've always thought when meeting girls, we wouldn't have to speak - I simply had to stand there looking pretty, girls would come over to me, we'd get talking and one thing would lead to another. Actually TALKING to them, "showing them my personality" and "making a connection" simply NEVER occured to me. All these years I thought "well, I'm clearly attractive than all these other guys in the room, so the babes will come to me whether I speak to them or not".

As you've probably guessed by now, that's not been the case.

First and foremost, I KNOW I'm obviously not the best-looking guy in the world. I KNOW appearance and looks are subjective - two girls could walk past me in the street, one could think I'm gorgeous and the other could think I'm ugly, neither of them are right or wrong - and I KNOW I'm focusing on the wrong aspects. Obviously I've heard people say "It's all about personality", but to be honest I always just thought that was a way of making ugly people feel better. My understanding has always been, that if you're physically attractive, you can have anyone you want with pretty much no effort.

Let me give you a bit more history - when I was in high school (I live in the UK, so highschool age was 11-16 then) I wasn't exactly popular. In fact, I had next to no friends and most of the school took any opportunity to pick on me (it was nothing psychologically-scarring, but most days were crap) and if it was ever made known that I liked somebody (ME, the absolute WEIRDO) then it resulted in me being insulted for even trying, and the friends of the girl taking the piss and making her feel awkward and embarassed. It was just as awkward for her as it was for me, so eventually I realised I shouldn't even bother.

So what do you think the reason for that was? Because of the social stigma and the fact I was akward and insecure and didn't give off any sort of warm, positive vibes that told her I was somebody she would want to be with? HA! Yeah right! I thought it was because I wasn't GOOD-LOOKING enough... that's it. Simple. Black and white. Cut and dry. It was all about looks. Nothing more, nothing less. JUST THAT I'M UGLY

"But wait..." My autistic brain says. "Mummy always told you how attractive you are... so why are people not attracted to you?"

That's where the confusion started. The self-doubt. All the moments of "Wait... Am I REALLY attractive then? Is what I led to believe really true?" And most of the time my mental response was "Well, my mum said so, so it must be true!" But people weren't SHOWING ME that they thought I was, and this bugged me.

Flash forward to college. It was a fresh start with new people, lots of opportunities to make new friends and any crap from school stayed in school, so I felt better. I finally felt like I had a group of friends and I could start doing things everyone else was doing years ago! I was doing Performing Arts as well, so I had a massive number of classmates and quite a lot of girls who would OBVIOUSLY be drawn to my beautiful looks, right?

No. So what did I do? I felt like I had to look for validation. After MORE time passed when none of them were throwing themselves at me, I made the fatal mistake of ASKING a few of them if they thought I was good looking.

And what do you think their answer was?

Now, I know FULL WELL that the negative answers to that question were due to the fact that - A) It's a very weird and awkward question to ask, and B) someone acknowledging their own attractiveness is unattractive. Cause it's totally fine for others to point out if you look good with little context, yet as soon as YOU acknowledge this, you immediately look vain and full of yourself. I KNOW THAT NOW, but back then, I didn't, and it just increased my confusion of people not living up to the expectations I had always had.

And here was the other problem - most of my MALE classmates were quite vocal about their histories. Picture it - you're sat in the canteen between classes, a table full of boys all discussing girls they'd slept with, some of whom you knew, where as you had pretty much NOTHING to contribute so you sat there awkwardly. Sound familiar? I'm sure you can imagine how horrible that feels, how INFERIOR you feel to them.

But for me, it wasn't simply a matter of me being "the guy who wasn't good with girls" - in my mind it was deeper, I was "the guy who no girl seemed to want despite the fact he's so much more attractive than every other guy in the room". There were a few girls on my course I was into, but honestly I was too scared to say anything because I knew I'd get turned down for the umpteenth time. I became awkward again. Self-conscious. Feeling like I needed someone to actually acknowledge how gorgeous I am, and it was really getting on my nerves. IF I'M SO ATTRACTIVE WHY IS NOBODY SHOWING THEY THINK SO!?

Before I continue, let me address a question you might have - although I was convinced that people liked or didn't like me purely based off of looks, was I not attracted to someone based off of more than that?

No.

No I wasn't.

As far as I was concerned, if a girl is at least moderately attractive, and she's single - she's a potential girlfriend.

That's it. That's all there was to it.

Although I look back on most of this stuff and I can easily answer most of these reasons why I wasn't successful, this was beyond simply thinking I was drop-dead gorgeous; I was looking for any opportunity to big myself up, a lot of these things I still do - I often find myself looking at my reflection whenever I get the chance to, whether it be mirrors or shop/car windows (that one used to be worse; I'd publicly play with my hair when there's people around). I pick my clothes carefully before social gatherings, because I'm so convinced that wearing the wrong t-shirt or wearing grey jeans over blue ones, or not having shaved for a couple of days, can make the difference between somebody immediately being attracted to me and immediately being uninterested. Tiny things, like a miniscule spot on my chin, or the colour/style of something I'm wearing, or whether my hair is too long or too short or the wrong shape today - If I'm not 100% satisfied with my appearance, I'm less confident and this will come across in my demeanor; I'll be less talkative and end up leaving my friends feeling deflated.

Anyway, after college I went to university and that wasn't much better. Over time as I was growing up I was gradually getting more and more confident and I started to put less importance on the subject. I've now gone through life still not very experienced but not COMPLETELY behind. I graduated university a couple of years ago and I'm currently working as a bartender in a theatre. It's not a perfect job but for where I am right now I get a lot out of it.

But I still have a problem - I've been sitting on the sidelines all this time, gaining experience as it's dripfed into my lap, WHEN it HAPPENS to come my way, where as everybody else I know have been dating and sleeping with each other. AND THIS BUGS ME.

This mindset isn't as intense as it used to be, and I do have solutions to a lot of my previous failures... but this way of thinking hasn't left my head. I still find myself prioritising appearances over personality, not just in myself but in other people as well.

Picture this - I've gone to a party, a mixture of guys and girls, and I know most people there. If the girls aren't acknowledging my presence, either by saying hi when they see me and looking genuinely happy that I'm there... in my mind, that tells me that they aren't attracted to me. Despite the fact that if they are, they might be too shy to tell me.

Now a lot of guys might feel that people aren't attracted to them. And that's alright...

But I'm not most guys. I'm ME. I'm MORE ATTRACTIVE than all those guys. I'm BETTER than all those guys (I know I'm not, but this is still how my mind looks at it) Why are those ugly fuckers that I'm friends with getting somewhere with girls and I'm not? Those girls can SEE how good looking I am, that ALONE is enough for her to be attracted to me, right?

Obviously I know better now. If I don't TALK to them, and SHOW THEM who I am, for them to decide if they like what they see, how are they going to find me attractive?

But all of that NEVER occurred to me in the past.

I'm a logical guy. I know better now...

But my EXPECTATIONS don't.

Here is how I have been feeling for the past year or so - the longer this goes on for (being so much less sexually inexperienced than most people I khow) the more annoyed I've been feeling. I'm SO SICK of seeing guys WORSE LOOKING THAN ME (yes, I know that's a minor thing now, but my mind doesn't see it that way) getting success when I (ME!!) am not getting anything!!

See those girls, in the corner? I've not kissed them. Or dated them. Or slept with them. But other people CAN say that. Not me, OTHERS. I'm not among their body count, and THAT BUGS ME. Those guys sat on the couch, laughing and joking? They've all slept with more girls than me, and THAT bugs me as well. If I look at these guys and I know for a fact that they're more experienced than me (which, 9/10 times, they are) then I immediately feel inferior to them.

In case you can't tell, simply being MORE experienced, for me, isn't enough. I want to live up to the expectations I've had all my life. I want to be THE DON - I want to be the one who's had the most action in the room, the one who can look at each and every girl and list how many times we've boned at weekends, how long I went out with her in the corner. I want the guys to be asking me for advice on what to do... but I have guy friends YEARS younger than me who are WAY more experienced than me. Not only is that not okay to me, it's downright insulting. I'm THE MASTER. THEY should be asking ME.

Are you familiar with the phrase, "If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room"? I get what it means - we should never stop trying to learn from others, but I don't think like that - I DO want to be the smartest guy in the room. The one who everyone looks up to. I want to think I'm SUPERIOR to all these guys. So how do I do that? Simple, by having more sex than all of them.

So if I know the answers now, what's the problem? Well I don't just want to be doing that stuff NOW, I want a HISTORY of doing this stuff. I want to be able to look back through the archives of my brain and say "I did this, I did that" and I want to be able to do all of this while I'm still young - I associate being young with messing around, and since 24 is on the later side of that period I feel like I have to make up for lost time, but I have a lot of ground to cover so I need to be doing all of this NOW!!!!!!!

But the worst part? That horrible mentality is INGRAINED VERY DEEPLY INTO MY MIND AND I CAN'T REMOVE IT NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY. It's been in my head all these years, I can't just remove it by clicking my fingers. It's driving me mad, and because the concept of "establishing an emotional connection" with people has ONLY JUST OCCURRED to me, I feel like I've wasted so much time around people who probably feel they don't know me despite the fact I feel I know them. I haven't spoken enough to people to get them to form an opinion on whether they like me, then complained when they haven't liked me, and I'm really ******* pissed off with it all...

One last thing that I feel I should mention - I've never really been a "can-do" type of person. I struggle to adapt my brain to the idea that if I want something to happen, it needs to be ME to do so. I've always lived a fairly straightforward life where I just assume things will just... "happen". When I was in education, it was simple - I'd go to school/college/university, I'd come home... rinse and repeat. As soon as I graduated university I fell into a deep depression for over a year, because the idea that I'm in control of my own life simply doesn't feel right to me. Things have just happened around me in the past and I've just... well, gone with them. How does this relate to the topic at hand? Simple - me making the first move on a girl doesn't feel natural, my instincts tell me they'll come to me. Combine this with what I think of my appearance and, well, I think you know the rest.

I really need help. I need to stop my brain from expecting everything to fall into my life, but I don't know how. I want people to like me, and I want to break this seemingly endless drought of nothing happening. I want to meet people I like, but I also want to make up for lost time and amass a tally of conquests. All in all, my head's a mess, I'm frustrated and I just really, REALLY want **** to start happening.

 

[ayase]

The entire thing applies to me, too. (Bar the "they end up in a relationship with someone else" part. Actually, perhaps I can even top that in terms of an unexpected plot twist in one case.)

Well a couple of them ended up in relationships with people not of my gender, that's always a particularly good twist.

I was just pondering how it'd make the time a lot easier to fill if it was easier to find much value in the things I spend my days doing, but that's become increasingly difficult. Various pursuits have fallen by the wayside over time as that inescapable sense of pointlessness began to creep in. The process leaves behind a familiar hollow feeling in its wake.

I just try not to even think about it any more (unless the topic comes up, like now, then I think about it a lot). Otherwise I enjoy my pointless existence that's less self-depreciation than a general belief about the nature of existence by filling it with other enjoyable experiences and emotions. Because while the things that make me happy might not have value to other people or to society, frankly, f*** 'em. If I can at least look back and go "Well I died alone and unloved, but I sure did enjoy that drive I took through France, the virtual month I spent in Skyrim and I lived to see Patlabor on Blu-ray" at least it will be better than regretting everything.

If I'm all out of ideas on how to fix something in a manner I'm okay with, what else is there to do? Because the only answers I can see now (to go back to some of my comments from five years ago) would be to do what I think people would find attractive. Which I could certainly do, because I've been a salesperson - Frankly I'm at my most charming and personable when enthusiastically encouraging people to buy tat I don't think they actually need. And it actually worked most of the time, it made people momentarily happy and I was momentarily happy. But that wasn't really me and that's why I won't do it - I have no desire to con people, if someone isn't interested in me as I really am and rather in me playing a character for their benefit, then that would be just as soul-destroying to try and maintain.

@Foxfire-Nova that's a lengthy and soul-baring post I'm not sure I can quite get my head around at this time of night, but if I can pick out one thing right now I think is particularly relevant:

I'm a logical guy.

And sadly most people aren't, especially when it comes to personal relationships. If they were, I think this world would be a much better place just another reason the logical machines deserve to inherit it and humanity doesn't - is there a Campaign to Build Killer Robots Faster? We live for 80 years, if we're lucky. That's nothing, a drop in the ocean. Why would anyone waste any of that time with the ridiculous song and dance that is dating/courting whatever you want to call it? If it was socially acceptable to just ask people "Do you find me attractive, y/n? > Would you like to attempt to live as partners in an attempt to asses if we're compatible for commitment, y/n?" and also everyone accepted the answers they were given without complaint, then everyone's lives would be made considerably easier and less full of heartache. But no. Because we're stupid bloody humans we'd never do anything so logical, in fact we seem to be going the other way and on the verge of considering such forthrightness something that should get people put on the sex offender's register. And then people wonder why the subject of the original topic is happening...

 

[Vashdaman]

Yeah, I can understand well all that you wrote in your last post (edit: the post at the top of the page) @ayase I've had very similar experiences. But I think most people experience more unrequited heart pangs than they do mutual romantic affection, it's takes time to find that.

It doesn't matter how attractive I think I am - If I don't receive any evidence other people find me attractive (who aren't just friends or relations who are trying to cheer me up) it just seems like I'd be deluding myself to believe that.

This I can certainly relate to. People would tell me I'm nuts and that I look fine and that it's just self delusion to think I'm really unappealing, but I would think to myself that all the evidence points to the contrary (nor does my countenance float my own aesthetic tastes) so I'd be deluding myself to think I look nice. But really, I don't think attraction is that simple most of the time, and there are so many different people with so many different tastes out there. You must have seen someone you think is very attractive going out with someone you think is, well, less so, right? I agree with Rui that looks are not worth being upset about.

 

[Foxfire-Nova]

You must have seen someone you think is very attractive going out with someone you think is, well, less so, right? I agree with Rui that looks are not worth being upset about.

Of course, and if it’s somebody I know, my immediate thought is “Why in the world would they be with them when I’M here? And I’m, ya know, CLEARLY better looking?”

(Yes, I know that’s subjective, but that’s how I feel seeing these things)

See, I take everything into account from personality to how well we get along and other factors when deciding if I’m into someone - but regardless, at the core, deep down, I ALWAYS feel someone should be into me based on how I look, regardless of personality or anything like that.

There’s an issue with stopping my brain from trailing down the superiority path - while I’m well aware that preventing myself thinking I have one-up on most guys is something I probably should stop - part of me doesn’t WANT TO...

Hear me out - confidence is attractive, right? Well what can be more confident than someone who knows they’re more attractive than most people there? While, as I said, I know that mentality is crap, I DO take a lot of pleasure in thinking like that; if I walk into a party thinking I’m the best-looking guy there, I’m gonna be more confident aren’t I? That means I’m gonna be more talkative, I’m gonna carry myself better and seem more warm and friendly, which means I’ll give off more positive vibes and make people want to talk to me more, which can lead to more social possibilities...

On the other hand, if I DON’T think I’m the best-looking guy in the room, then I’m looking at guys thinking they’re better than me because they’re more experienced, and I’m looking at girls feeling pissed off because I’ve not done anything with them, that’s gonna make me insecure in a place where I’m supposed to be having fun, I’ll come across negatively because I’m getting hung up on it and people won’t see me as someone they want to engage with...

If I’m thinking that way then I’m “just a normal guy” - and in my mind, THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I don’t want to THINK I’m a normal guy, I want to be the guy who the girls talk about when they’re alone and act shy with when his presence, the one all the guys love being around and can only wish they were him...

Essentially, it’s a case of picking my poison - either I’m confident to the point of delusion, or I’m realistic and feel like crap - and honestly, the former seems like the lesser of two evils.

Yes, I have female friends who I ONLY consider a friend, but as for most girls I know - as far as I’m concerned, if they’re single and at least moderately attractive, then they’re a potential girlfriend. Meaning, if I’m speaking to them and not getting the impression they’re into me, it’s gonna make me feel like crap because there’s people in the past they WON’T have turned down, and (in my mind) I’m BETTER than those guys.

 

[Neil.T]

It's interesting, all this talk about looks. For me, I got over my lack of them what seems like forever ago now. I get that that's something I'm never going to have in my arsenal. The problem was that I never used to have the character to combat that with.

So I worked on it. It took years, but I really think I've been able to improve in that area immeasurably. Here's the fun bit: it really hasn't made a blind bit of difference. There is no difference in how quickly people get bored of me now compared to then, which is... disheartening, soul-crushing stuff. I like to hope that I'm quite a different character in real life from how I probably come across here: I certainly don't allow myself this kind of self-pity in front of people; in fact I became allergic to showing anything that would be perceived as mental weakness. My natural character around people is as the guy who's the one trying to get a laugh out of others (and it generally succeeds). It got to the point where I no longer had to try in order not to be bland and faceless: it now came naturally. But because I was still battling to be "entertaining", "amusing" or "interesting", there came a point where I wondered whether I was perhaps now overdoing it. Perhaps the reason that people could still seemingly only be bothered with me in small doses had shifted to being that it was too much. No worries: just be a little mindful of it and dial it down a touch. You've come this far; just let it flow naturally. Only the fine tuning to go now!

No. No difference. People still get fed up of me as quickly as ever. I've come to the conclusion that there must be something inherently repellent about my appearance and character combined that there seems to be no way to overcome it. Perhaps it's something as plain as day. Perhaps it's something easily fixable, if only I could learn what it is! Or perhaps it's something much more fundamental than that, that would mean having to rebuild and rewire my personality from the ground up. To this day, I just still don't know. I'll likely never find out the answer either, as it's of course not something that you can just ask people.

This is where my sense that the writing's already on the wall for me comes from. This is why I feel, as I have come to think of it, "doomed".


It's also interesting to note that I've been using words like "arsenal" and "combat" and "battling" in this post. I guess that proves that that really is how I view human relationships. Hmm...

Happy 2018.

 

[Adam-M]

Obviously I know better now. If I don't TALK to them, and SHOW THEM who I am, for them to decide if they like what they see, how are they going to find me attractive?

I get what you're trying to say in your (somewhat lengthy but entirely interesting) post, but let me point something out on the off-chance it hasn't clicked yet. The one thing you've got in abundance is honesty, and a lot of people don't realise how rare that can be. We're similar in some aspects (although you were just called weirdo when I was a kid and they left it at that). Still, in time you'll find that your biggest strength is just being yourself. A lot of people get burned in relationships and spend the rest of their life lacking trust in other people and you'll find that people in that kind of situation feel more comfortable around you. If they don't want to know you when you're being you, then you don't really want them either.
I know what you were saying in your post and I get that its a cliche, but being yourself is the best thing you can do. Try and put the rest of it on the backburner for a bit, and if something happens it happens.

 

[Foxfire-Nova]

I get what you're trying to say in your (somewhat lengthy but entirely interesting) post, but let me point something out on the off-chance it hasn't clicked yet. The one thing you've got in abundance is honesty, and a lot of people don't realise how rare that can be. We're similar in some aspects (although you were just called weirdo when I was a kid and they left it at that). Still, in time you'll find that your biggest strength is just being yourself. A lot of people get burned in relationships and spend the rest of their life lacking trust in other people and you'll find that people in that kind of situation feel more comfortable around you. If they don't want to know you when you're being you, then you don't really want them either.
I know what you were saying in your post and I get that its a cliche, but being yourself is the best thing you can do. Try and put the rest of it on the backburner for a bit, and if something happens it happens.

I’ve considered “putting it on the backburner” several times, and I HAVE tried that. While, in a sense, it means I’m not thinking about this 24/7 which is nice, it also means I’m continually coasting through life not getting anything done about this. Sooner or later, I’d clock on that EVEN MORE time has gone by with nothing happening, all the while most other guys I know will have racked up EVEN MORE experience (which, of course, my brain will tell me is rightfully mine) which means I will be even FURTHER behind them.

You know what this would mean for me, don’t you? If I tell myself “it’ll happen when it happens” I’m gonna end up first having sex in like my 30’s or older and I AM NOT PREPARED TO LET THAT HAPPEN. This needs addressing and it needs fixing ASAP and the longer it goes on for the more pissed off I’m gonna get about it, the more I’m gonna feel like it should be handed to me on a plate and, in turn, the less likely I am to put in any actual effort because I’m gonna be feeling that I’m so amazing and attractive that they should be running to me - it’s a vicious circle.

EDIT: Forgot to address the part about honestly - you’re right there, and there have been plenty of times I’ve just spoken to someone, normally and honestly, and had them end up falling for me - this is all well and good, but it’s the rarity of the times this happens that I have an issue with. I’ll bear that in mind when I’m next talking to someone, so I chat to someone and else and I’m not feeling that they’re into me. “Why?” He asks himself “People have been into you when you’ve been yourself before, why is she not?”

Being myself and having self-belief and confidence never seem to go hand-in-hand. I want to be one of those guys who’s sleeping with different girls all the time and “by being myself” that’s not going to happen, so what the hell am I supposed to do?

 

[Vashdaman]

Being myself and having self-belief and confidence never seem to go hand-in-hand. I want to be one of those guys who’s sleeping with different girls all the time and “by being myself” that’s not going to happen, so what the hell am I supposed to do?

Well, and this is just a suggestion, but you could try not wanting to be a guy who wants to sleep with different girls all the time.

I think you're approaching things in a rather unhealthy way.

 

[Foxfire-Nova]

Well, and this is just a suggestion, but you could try not wanting to be a guy who wants to sleep with different girls all the time.

I think you're approaching things in a rather unhealthy way.

So let me see if I’ve got this right - plenty of experience, lots of different partners offering lots of variety, feeling good at knowing I’ve got the skill, looks and history of being with lots of people and having the stories and experience to back it up;

Why WOULDN’T I want that?