fabio de lunatico
Claymore
Well, the manga was serialized in... eh, I'd better not go thereayase said:
I understand what you're saying, but there has to be a happy medium between being cryptic and spelling everything out so explicitly.
Rate the last anime you watched out of 10
- Thread starter Aion
- Start date
I understand what you're saying, but there has to be a happy medium between being cryptic and spelling everything out so explicitly.
Aion
Time-Traveller
If the scenes had involved a character dully writting names into the Death Note, with no music and a still camera, with no effort put into the camera angles, do you think that would've been good? What point would there have been in adapting black and white pages and not adding anything!?
For me, as I've told you before, the music and camera angles added A LOT to my enjoyment. Because Madhouse did what they did AND tried to fix the last half of the story, I rank the anime higher than the manga. I can't imagine Death Note without the orchestral score and camera zooming around. It's hard for me to understand your issues with the anime when I love the anime for what you hate.
Ayase raises a good point when he mentions the part of Death Note where Light goes to the trouble of setting up his drawer so that if anyone tries to force the false bottom open it explodes. It was never mentioned again once it was explained, but it wasn't pointless. When he was testing out his theory in an abandoned building before building it, he casually told Ryuk that, if push came to shove, he'd have to kill his own family, which showed how little Light cared for anyone; even his own family. Then, when he was explaing exactly how the trap worked to Ryuk, it highighted how intelligent Light was to be able to protect the only thing that, if found, would destroy him in an obvious place and easy to access place. Both the testing and explanation of something that would never be mentioned again helped give further insught into the mind of Light - they served a purpose beyond simply over-explaining a trap.
Also, Light wasn't corrupted by power. I'm getting a sense of deja vu here because I sent a lengthy message in the direction of Ayase (which the ****** never answered) explaining why I've never viewed him as a good guy who was twisted by the ability to kill.
It's true that the Death Note gave Light the ability to go beyond the limitations of his life as a good guy, serving the justice of the world by catching baddies and putting them in jail, but Light was never what society could consider to be a good person. Do you think simply killing people made him not care about even his family? Do you think Light had no true friends before he received the Death Note because he was a normal person; no girl he had feelings of affection for? No, no, no. His IQ put a wall between himself and others, making him views those around him as lesser beings, and he masked his lack of caring for anyone but himself by acting like 'White Light', using his looks and social skills to fit in.
Power didn't change Light as a person - it allowed him to be true to himself; to free himself of the chains human society wrap around every individual to control them. Without the tool of the Gods he would've been forced to live like his father - rising to the top of NPA, making a name for himself as a hero and then retiring - but with the Death Note he didn't need to live his life hiding under a mask in order to protect himself.
Lots of people attack Death Note for it having no character development - for the characters starting out complete. I'd like to ask those people how they would've added development to a character like Light, who cares for no-one and thinks of himself as superior to everyone. Light was who he was, and that's why he's such a character.
For me, as I've told you before, the music and camera angles added A LOT to my enjoyment. Because Madhouse did what they did AND tried to fix the last half of the story, I rank the anime higher than the manga. I can't imagine Death Note without the orchestral score and camera zooming around. It's hard for me to understand your issues with the anime when I love the anime for what you hate.
Ayase raises a good point when he mentions the part of Death Note where Light goes to the trouble of setting up his drawer so that if anyone tries to force the false bottom open it explodes. It was never mentioned again once it was explained, but it wasn't pointless. When he was testing out his theory in an abandoned building before building it, he casually told Ryuk that, if push came to shove, he'd have to kill his own family, which showed how little Light cared for anyone; even his own family. Then, when he was explaing exactly how the trap worked to Ryuk, it highighted how intelligent Light was to be able to protect the only thing that, if found, would destroy him in an obvious place and easy to access place. Both the testing and explanation of something that would never be mentioned again helped give further insught into the mind of Light - they served a purpose beyond simply over-explaining a trap.
Also, Light wasn't corrupted by power. I'm getting a sense of deja vu here because I sent a lengthy message in the direction of Ayase (which the ****** never answered) explaining why I've never viewed him as a good guy who was twisted by the ability to kill.
It's true that the Death Note gave Light the ability to go beyond the limitations of his life as a good guy, serving the justice of the world by catching baddies and putting them in jail, but Light was never what society could consider to be a good person. Do you think simply killing people made him not care about even his family? Do you think Light had no true friends before he received the Death Note because he was a normal person; no girl he had feelings of affection for? No, no, no. His IQ put a wall between himself and others, making him views those around him as lesser beings, and he masked his lack of caring for anyone but himself by acting like 'White Light', using his looks and social skills to fit in.
Power didn't change Light as a person - it allowed him to be true to himself; to free himself of the chains human society wrap around every individual to control them. Without the tool of the Gods he would've been forced to live like his father - rising to the top of NPA, making a name for himself as a hero and then retiring - but with the Death Note he didn't need to live his life hiding under a mask in order to protect himself.
Lots of people attack Death Note for it having no character development - for the characters starting out complete. I'd like to ask those people how they would've added development to a character like Light, who cares for no-one and thinks of himself as superior to everyone. Light was who he was, and that's why he's such a character.
sanji no 1
Vampire Ninja
GetBackers
5/10
SO AVERAGE!
SO VERY AVERAGE!
5/10
SO AVERAGE!
SO VERY AVERAGE!
ayase
State Alchemist
Well so far Death Note is the only anime adapted from SJ that I've really enjoyed, so that must count for it being a little removed from it's stablemates in terms of quality.
And in a world where most Hollywood films hit you over the head repeatedly with every single plot point, (while at the same time every plot point is blatantly obvious) Death Note is positively subtle by comparison.
For me it's thought provoking because through the actions of Light and L, their methods and respective ideas of justice it tells us what Nietzsche taught us a long time ago - that there is no good or evil, and indeed our very notions of morality are flawed. I think that's why a lot of people dislike it - Because this is a uncomfortable realisation, but one which in my opinion it does people good to come to.
And in a world where most Hollywood films hit you over the head repeatedly with every single plot point, (while at the same time every plot point is blatantly obvious) Death Note is positively subtle by comparison.
For me it's thought provoking because through the actions of Light and L, their methods and respective ideas of justice it tells us what Nietzsche taught us a long time ago - that there is no good or evil, and indeed our very notions of morality are flawed. I think that's why a lot of people dislike it - Because this is a uncomfortable realisation, but one which in my opinion it does people good to come to.
Nor have I, but then I don't think people are inherently good. Perhaps power corrupting was just the wrong way to put it... I think we're all corrupt but lack the power to indulge our dark sides. I think every human being is a potential Kira, and that regardless of what morality they profess to anyone who received a Death Note would use it. And apologies Aion, but I've not logged into MAL for ages as I've barely watched any anime. We seem to be discussing the same things here now anyway.
fabio de lunatico
Claymore
Heh. Funny you should mention that because parts of Death Note (particularly the aforementioned camera work and music) evoke the same excesses as Hollywood blockbusters. They, incidentally, don't appeal to me either.ayase said:
That's an interesting way of viewing it, I suppose, but at no point during the episodes I watched did I get the impression that Light wasn't being condemned for his actions. As I mentioned before, it wasn't long before he turned his attention away from serious criminals to people who hadn't even been found guilty, and I can't see how anyone could justify his behaviour. It seems black and white to me.
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Aion
Time-Traveller
If laws were the word of God and killing another human being was truly a sin in the eyes of the holy one, then you could call Light evil and be justified. But that isn't the case - if the world is wrong in the first place, and the world is only the way it is because of laws created by other men, they why is it evil to take the world in a direction different than other men wanted it to go in?
As it stands, L was as evil as Light. He sent the FBI agents to Japan and he got people killed because he tried to catch Light. Light killed those who got in his way - nothing more. I'm not saying he was right to kill people who hadn't broken any laws - all I'm saying is that the people Light killed went against what he considered justice and they were killed as a result.
Thinking L was a good guy and Light was a bad guy because one went with and the other went against laws is a simplistic way of thinking. In truth, L hunted criminals because it gave him a role; made him important and Light killed 1000's because he wanted to be somebody; not just a tool used by others - there wasn't a great deal of difference between them. That's why Naomi thought Light was similar to L and that's why Light and L could think like each other when trying to outsmart each other.
Edit: Oh, and, while the author didn't give his/her opinions one way or the other about what Light did, the ending gave a clear indication that he/she wasn't pro-Light. That's all I'll say.
As it stands, L was as evil as Light. He sent the FBI agents to Japan and he got people killed because he tried to catch Light. Light killed those who got in his way - nothing more. I'm not saying he was right to kill people who hadn't broken any laws - all I'm saying is that the people Light killed went against what he considered justice and they were killed as a result.
Thinking L was a good guy and Light was a bad guy because one went with and the other went against laws is a simplistic way of thinking. In truth, L hunted criminals because it gave him a role; made him important and Light killed 1000's because he wanted to be somebody; not just a tool used by others - there wasn't a great deal of difference between them. That's why Naomi thought Light was similar to L and that's why Light and L could think like each other when trying to outsmart each other.
Edit: Oh, and, while the author didn't give his/her opinions one way or the other about what Light did, the ending gave a clear indication that he/she wasn't pro-Light. That's all I'll say.
Soul Eater 7/10
Not a bad show, still I feel slightly disappointed. Around episode 20 in the build up to the demon gods release I was loving this, while following that the story never got quite as intense again. Even the final showdown and it's conclusion felt weak and improvised.
Still it kept me watching through all 51 episodes, while the artistry and animation were of a high quality throughout. If your looking for a solid shonen actioner then you won't go too far wrong with Soul Eater.
Not a bad show, still I feel slightly disappointed. Around episode 20 in the build up to the demon gods release I was loving this, while following that the story never got quite as intense again. Even the final showdown and it's conclusion felt weak and improvised.
Still it kept me watching through all 51 episodes, while the artistry and animation were of a high quality throughout. If your looking for a solid shonen actioner then you won't go too far wrong with Soul Eater.
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fabio de lunatico
Claymore
Just for the record, in case your post was in direct response to mine, I never called anyone "evil" and I never mentioned L either. My point was that Light is portrayed as a "bad guy" from very early in the series , so even the original author wasn't attempting to justify his actions. L may or may not be any better -- remember that I haven't watched much and it was a while ago -- but if he does knowingly sacrifice people to take down Kira, that would be a more interesting point of discussion.Aion said:
Apologies for my one offhand comment that triggered a chain reaction of wildly off topic posts. I should have realized that mentioning Death Note would wake Aion from his slumber
Aion
Time-Traveller
You expressed that you thought he should be condemned and that you can't see how anyone could justify his actions, also saying you see it as black (Light/evil) and white (L/good). If I misunderstood then I'm sorry, but it seems pretty clear what you were trying to say. :|
You've already seen L sacrifice someone - remember the second episode, when he put a criminal on TV and told him to act like himself? L was using the criminal to test if Kira could truly kill from a distance.
I agree that this is a bit unfair when you've only seen a section of the story, but it ain't my fault you'd rather watch Deserk Punk and give Death Note 6/10 without finishing it.
There isn't much for me to talk about these days, me not watching anything and all. So, when DN gets mentioned and I just started re-reading the manga, I'm going to jump on you/the thread.
You've already seen L sacrifice someone - remember the second episode, when he put a criminal on TV and told him to act like himself? L was using the criminal to test if Kira could truly kill from a distance.
I agree that this is a bit unfair when you've only seen a section of the story, but it ain't my fault you'd rather watch Deserk Punk and give Death Note 6/10 without finishing it.
There isn't much for me to talk about these days, me not watching anything and all. So, when DN gets mentioned and I just started re-reading the manga, I'm going to jump on you/the thread.
fabio de lunatico
Claymore
No, I said I got the impression that he was being condemned by the way his character was portrayed. Must have worded it badly. I did say that his actions can't be justified but I stopped short of calling him eeeevil. By black and white I was referring to Light's conduct because I don't see any shades of grey there. And I had totally forgotten about the criminal on TV! Clearly Light and L make a good couple and instead of trying outsmart one another, they should have been making psychotic love. But I'm sure the doujin artists saw to that...Aion said:
And, hey, Desert Punk is awesome. Well, no, it's not, but the main character has rather dubious morality of his own. And it's frequently hilarious.
Aion
Time-Traveller
Oh, I misread that line, then. I thought you said you got the feeling he wasn't being condemned and that bothered you for some reason, which I understood because the author attempted to stay away from saying who was right during the battle of wits. Misreading that line, as well as reading the rest of your post, made me misunderstand it.
Skimming is bad. I keep doing it and it always leads to me jumping the gun.
If you remember enough to do so, can you give me an example to help me understand what you mean because I don't recall the author ever doing anything to indicate Light had gone down the wrong path...until the end. He/she even said in an interview that he/she didn't want to give his/her own feelings on the matter, instead focusing on making the story thrilling.
The only truly 'good' character in the entire story is Light's dad. He thinks only of his family and stopping crime, doing all he can, but he ends up getting used by his own son, lead on a wild goose chase and aged badly (notice the white in his hair and wrinkles later on) because of it. He's the only DN character I felt truly bad for.
Skimming is bad. I keep doing it and it always leads to me jumping the gun.
If you remember enough to do so, can you give me an example to help me understand what you mean because I don't recall the author ever doing anything to indicate Light had gone down the wrong path...until the end. He/she even said in an interview that he/she didn't want to give his/her own feelings on the matter, instead focusing on making the story thrilling.
The only truly 'good' character in the entire story is Light's dad. He thinks only of his family and stopping crime, doing all he can, but he ends up getting used by his own son, lead on a wild goose chase and aged badly (notice the white in his hair and wrinkles later on) because of it. He's the only DN character I felt truly bad for.
fabio de lunatico
Claymore
The whole killing people thing was a big hint that Light had strayed from the path of the righteous
His willingness to kill anyone who stands in his way, his lack of remorse, Ryuk's comment about him being the only criminal left: it just seemed obvious to me that this was not a character the audience -- comprising mainly impressionable teenagers -- were encouraged to sympathise with. I had no doubt that it wasn't going to end well for him.
His willingness to kill anyone who stands in his way, his lack of remorse, Ryuk's comment about him being the only criminal left: it just seemed obvious to me that this was not a character the audience -- comprising mainly impressionable teenagers -- were encouraged to sympathise with. I had no doubt that it wasn't going to end well for him.
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Aion
Time-Traveller
Oh, so you already know about the ending? I had the ending ruined for me as soon as I started, by Narutards on NarutoFAN having a nice little conversation about possible manga/anime alterations...in the anime thread, without spoiler tags. They even insulted me for being annoyed, the *****.
It always amused me when manga readers joked about the chance of the anime ending with a surprise Matsuda headshot. I never understood until the end, and then I laughed. What's really funny is that that ending would've been better than the Madhouse filler ending.
I had a talent for ruining Death Note for myself. Whether it was by looking on Wiki for information and seeing too much or having some retard reveal all in the pre-sub episode discussion threads, I knew about the entire plot in advance. I guess I should be happy Madhouse replaced the excellent manga ending with a suck arse filler ending - at least that was something new, even if the surprise did leave me with a ':-[' face.
Killing people who stood in his way was right or wrong depending on how you look at it. Believe it or not, there are a lot of DN fans who agreed with Light, though a lot of that had to do with Near. Light isn't thought of as the bad guy by most viewers; they think he was a character with some good intentions and a lot of selfishness, which is really all he ever was. I just think of him as a selfish guy who could never relate to others because of his brilliant mind - much like L.
I didn't agree with L being the bitch of the world, solving cases no-one else could solve and not doing anything beyond that - he was too smart to allow himself to be used like that... I guess he just had nothing else. I also didn't agree with Light killing everyone who wasn't useful to him. So, in short, I didn't fully agree with L trying to stop Light or Light trying to change the world. I do, however, think the world is a ****** place that needs to be changed.
It always amused me when manga readers joked about the chance of the anime ending with a surprise Matsuda headshot. I never understood until the end, and then I laughed. What's really funny is that that ending would've been better than the Madhouse filler ending.
I had a talent for ruining Death Note for myself. Whether it was by looking on Wiki for information and seeing too much or having some retard reveal all in the pre-sub episode discussion threads, I knew about the entire plot in advance. I guess I should be happy Madhouse replaced the excellent manga ending with a suck arse filler ending - at least that was something new, even if the surprise did leave me with a ':-[' face.
Killing people who stood in his way was right or wrong depending on how you look at it. Believe it or not, there are a lot of DN fans who agreed with Light, though a lot of that had to do with Near. Light isn't thought of as the bad guy by most viewers; they think he was a character with some good intentions and a lot of selfishness, which is really all he ever was. I just think of him as a selfish guy who could never relate to others because of his brilliant mind - much like L.
I didn't agree with L being the bitch of the world, solving cases no-one else could solve and not doing anything beyond that - he was too smart to allow himself to be used like that... I guess he just had nothing else. I also didn't agree with Light killing everyone who wasn't useful to him. So, in short, I didn't fully agree with L trying to stop Light or Light trying to change the world. I do, however, think the world is a ****** place that needs to be changed.
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fabio de lunatico
Claymore
Yeah, I've been spoiled on the ending. It was so long ago I can't even remember where.
It doesn't surprise me that a lot of fans view Light the way they do. As ayase says, everybody has a dark side (though I disagree that all would use the Death Note), and Light appeals to our desire for revenge, or at least our own personal idea of justice. I'd wager, for example, that a majority of the British electorate would favour the reinstatement of the death penalty, but that doesn't make them right.
I will buy the rest of the series at some point... just waiting for the right moment
It doesn't surprise me that a lot of fans view Light the way they do. As ayase says, everybody has a dark side (though I disagree that all would use the Death Note), and Light appeals to our desire for revenge, or at least our own personal idea of justice. I'd wager, for example, that a majority of the British electorate would favour the reinstatement of the death penalty, but that doesn't make them right.
I will buy the rest of the series at some point... just waiting for the right moment
ayase
State Alchemist
Okay so perhaps the Dalai Lama wouldn't, but I wager he'd still be pretty tempted. He has a cause to fight himself, and there are few causes which couldn't benefit from the removal of a select few people in the way. A few high ranking Communist Party officials and Tibet might be independent again... could be worth it to protect Tibetan Buddhism. After all, death by natural causes isn't necessarily violent... etc.
And that I think is how anyone who came into possession of Kira's power would think. Everybody has causes they feel passionately about and a lot of people have their own vision of how the world should be. For Light it was a world without crime, which really proves that in the end he wasn't all that clever, as crime is generally the result of other factors. But as the son of a policeman it's perhaps natural he'd think criminals were all that was wrong with the world.
Do the ends ever justify the means? No matter what they say publicly I'd say the answer is yes for most people, whether it's boarding a whaling ship or gassing millions of people. Most, given the power, would be prepared to do whatever it takes to make the world conform to their vision. That's just the way people are.
Really, has any world leader ever been any different to Light? Most of them cause the deaths of countless innocents to make sure their own ideas of society prevail. That's what every war ever fought has been about. One person's vision versus another. Any why did they do it? Why were they able to do it? Because they had the power to do it.
And that I think is how anyone who came into possession of Kira's power would think. Everybody has causes they feel passionately about and a lot of people have their own vision of how the world should be. For Light it was a world without crime, which really proves that in the end he wasn't all that clever, as crime is generally the result of other factors. But as the son of a policeman it's perhaps natural he'd think criminals were all that was wrong with the world.
Do the ends ever justify the means? No matter what they say publicly I'd say the answer is yes for most people, whether it's boarding a whaling ship or gassing millions of people. Most, given the power, would be prepared to do whatever it takes to make the world conform to their vision. That's just the way people are.
Really, has any world leader ever been any different to Light? Most of them cause the deaths of countless innocents to make sure their own ideas of society prevail. That's what every war ever fought has been about. One person's vision versus another. Any why did they do it? Why were they able to do it? Because they had the power to do it.
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, volume 1: 10/10 (easily)
There is nothing better than waking up to a sunny day only to watch this light-atmosphered anime. I have seen this series through four times before but everytime I re-watch it it seems to become even more amazing.
I personally think that the reason this anime is so good is because it has everything in it: science-fiction, comedy, school-life, bunny-girls, moe elements, live bands, girls with big breasts/small breasts/cute personalities, angry personalities, a narrator, love indications, girls getting changed, breast-grabbing (between two girls too), space battles, et cetera....
There is nothing better than waking up to a sunny day only to watch this light-atmosphered anime. I have seen this series through four times before but everytime I re-watch it it seems to become even more amazing.
I personally think that the reason this anime is so good is because it has everything in it: science-fiction, comedy, school-life, bunny-girls, moe elements, live bands, girls with big breasts/small breasts/cute personalities, angry personalities, a narrator, love indications, girls getting changed, breast-grabbing (between two girls too), space battles, et cetera....
Mort Kildebaek
Brigade Leader
Bleach complete series 1: 8/10
A great series and I have heard that it gets better in series two and three, so I'm excited to watch 'em when I get 'em from amazon
A great series and I have heard that it gets better in series two and three, so I'm excited to watch 'em when I get 'em from amazon
hopeful_monster
Thousand Master
Zettai Karen Children 7/10
It is the near future and mutants ... no sorry espers are on the rise. They can read minds, teleport and move objects with the power of their mind. Some use thier powers for the good of all, some use it for selfish gain. Some have joined the X-me ... i mean Babel, others have joined the Brotherhood of Muta ... I mean Pandra. Three of the most powerful espers are the three ten year old girls of Zettai Karen Children (Absolutely Lovely Children) the show charts they mission to protect a world that hates and fears them (nah that happened in both)
You may have noticed that the overally plot of this is very similar to a popular american comic and movies series, even down to a number of the individual arc's and one of the major threads. The differences however are to numerous to mention, but the main two are the fact it has more in common with magic girl shows than American action comics, and secondly the X-men takes itself far more seriously, this is a kids show (with many a nod to the adults watching as well).Episodes are generally stand alone, but do all start roling toward the threat of the predicted esper war and who's side will 'The Children' be on.
It's lite, it's fun, and it doesn't tax the brain, but it may tug at heart strings. Just wish the show hadn't stopped when it did. Maybe there's another season in the works.
It is the near future and mutants ... no sorry espers are on the rise. They can read minds, teleport and move objects with the power of their mind. Some use thier powers for the good of all, some use it for selfish gain. Some have joined the X-me ... i mean Babel, others have joined the Brotherhood of Muta ... I mean Pandra. Three of the most powerful espers are the three ten year old girls of Zettai Karen Children (Absolutely Lovely Children) the show charts they mission to protect a world that hates and fears them (nah that happened in both)
You may have noticed that the overally plot of this is very similar to a popular american comic and movies series, even down to a number of the individual arc's and one of the major threads. The differences however are to numerous to mention, but the main two are the fact it has more in common with magic girl shows than American action comics, and secondly the X-men takes itself far more seriously, this is a kids show (with many a nod to the adults watching as well).Episodes are generally stand alone, but do all start roling toward the threat of the predicted esper war and who's side will 'The Children' be on.
It's lite, it's fun, and it doesn't tax the brain, but it may tug at heart strings. Just wish the show hadn't stopped when it did. Maybe there's another season in the works.
sanji no 1
Vampire Ninja
Afro Samurai resurrection 9/10
Wasnt as good as the first but still very good! If you have seen the 5 episode series you should definately see this
Wasnt as good as the first but still very good! If you have seen the 5 episode series you should definately see this