Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water simulwatch

[WMD]

Episode 15

I can deal with Nadias vegetarian rage but the anti science BS makes me so angry. The willful ignorance people choose to have is infuriating.

Also why Jean thought Nadia would appreciate the Nautilus if she saw them kill the enemies is beyond nonsense. Like seriously Jean you dont have to agree with her but pay attention.

The tension built in the torpedo scene was really good and the twists and turns of the final part of the episode just didnt stop coming. Super brutal ending. Ultimately Nemo did the only thing he could do and the kids really showed their naivety. Also the Nautilus crew are soldiers in a war outcast sea. Of course they would to stop to mourn. They have to fix the ship first and foremost. I imagine they are all awaiting the day they get to stop and mourn all they have lost.

 

[Professor Irony]

Bit behind, but I'll catch up soon. Someone persuaded me to start on Amazon's new offering The Boys. Spoiler: It's quite good.

Episode 12

Nice that we finally get some backstory for Grandis, Sanson and Hanson. I assumed the title was referring to Nemo and thought 'didn't they imply Grandis was in love before?', but I'd forgotten she was betrayed by her husband.

That aside, I'm sure I posted this before, but it bears repeating:



Episode 13

Is it strange that this is possibly my favourite episode? A new insert song would have been nice, rather than just reusing the OP, but that aside I really like this one. It's a nice little self-contained adventure for Marie and King, but it also has some really great animation in the chase scenes, particularly on the crab mech. It ends on a strangely bitter note though, with Nemo shooting the pilot. Perhaps Anno didn't want things to become too cosy, but it does seem like a recurring theme in the show that death is never far away, and the kids need to learn to deal with that.

Also did anyone else notice the guy earlier I the episode sat with his feet behind his head when examining the plans? Lol.

I completely missed that - need to go back and look.

That's very interesting, because I've found myself siding with Jean in these exchanges, and I find Nadia frustrating as a character.

Broadly speaking, I do too (as, I think, do most people I've spoken to who've seen the show), but I do feel a little more sympathetic to Nadia when it comes Jean's reaction after she berates him for killing the deer. While I imagine his attitude would be both common and understandable in that era, he doesn't show any attempt at even trying to understand Nadia's point of view on this one.

Also on one final, unrelated note, is it just me or is the female crew member Marie speaks to Class Rep Hikari from Evangelion?

 

[Neil.T]

why Jean thought Nadia would appreciate the Nautilus if she saw them kill the enemies is beyond nonsense.

Yeah, that stood out as very wishful thinking on Jean's part to me as well, to say the least.

While I imagine his attitude would be both common and understandable in that era, he doesn't show any attempt at even trying to understand Nadia's point of view on this one.

I get the feeling that one of Nadia's purposes in the series is to voice viewpoints that seem somewhat ahead of their time, and more in line with the 1989 of the series' making rather than the 1889 of the series' setting. I'm starting to find that aspect rather interesting, actually.

Also, I just remembered that Anno himself is vegetarian. There's got to be something in that, too. Perhaps Anno at the time felt as if his own views were also ahead of their time.

A new insert song would have been nice, rather than just reusing the OP

You mean you'd like to have seen Marie frolicking merrily in the sunshine, belting out at the top of her lungs...
♪Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me / I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed♪

 

[WMD]

get the feeling that one of Nadia's purposes in the series is to voice viewpoints that seem somewhat ahead of their time, and more in line with the 1989 of the series' making rather than the 1889 of the series' setting. I'm starting to find that aspect rather interesting, actually.

Also, I just remembered that Anno himself is vegetarian. There's got to be something in that, too. Perhaps Anno at the time felt as if his own views were also ahead of their time.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there.

You mean you'd like to have seen Marie frolicking merrily in the sunshine, belting out at the top of her lungs...
♪Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me / I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed♪

Yes. Definitely. And if there's ever a remake I hope that's what they do.

 

[WMD]

Episode 16

Super interesting if melancholy episode.

I found it weird that they'd stay on the surface in a storm but it gave Nadia the chance for instant regret when she tried to lob the blue water into the ocean. It seemed odd the way it glowed this episode with some patches not lighting up. Is it ok? Or damaged? No one seemed to notice.

Loved the black and white scenes. Were they flashbacks or were they internal monologues with Nadias mind superimposing others into her internal dialogue? Felt very Eva.

Which brings us onto the giant dude in a mountain. An Angel or Eva corpse? If I was told this series is actually a sequel to Evangelion set a couple of hundred years later and Atlanis is actually the Geofront I'd probably believe you.

What a blow for Jean to find out his dad's ship was destroyed by gargoyle. And that scene of Jean and Nadia talking was so melancholy but also quite touching and sweet in its own way. It's been a while since I feel they've had a proper conversation so it was nice.

 

[Neil.T]

Loved the black and white scenes. Were they flashbacks or were they internal monologues with Nadias mind superimposing others into her internal dialogue? Felt very Eva.

I was thinking that very same thing when I watched the episode, too. It was really striking and a great plot device. It was very reminiscent of Eva episodes 25's Instrumentality, wasn't it?

Which brings us onto the giant dude in a mountain. An Angel or Eva corpse?

Exactly so. It strongly reminded me of the glimpse we get in the extended version of Eva's opening sequence of the Katsuragi Expedition unearthing Adam. Here's a visual comparison:

Spoiler

Nadia: The underwater giant


Evangelion: Adam being excavated

I spotted another little similarity to Eva in Nadia episode 16 as well. Have a look at this. It involves a shot that @WMD brought up during the Eva simulwatch:

Spoiler

Mourning chances lost: Nadia episode 16


A cross to bear: Evangelion episode 21

I've been looking forward to comparing the two series both visually and thematically during this simulwatch, so this is a lot of fun.

 

[WMD]

@Neil.T Those are some really striking similarities. It's really interesting that hes gone for the back of the giant in both cases. Human form but no face to be able to check.

Also totally missed the tilted cross this time! Holy buy not quite right. Really adds to the notion of man playing God. A theme in both shows!

 

[Neil.T]

Those are some really striking similarities. It's really interesting that hes gone for the back of the giant in both cases. Human form but no face to be able to check.

The similarities actually extend even further in Evangelion Rebuild.
Here's a shot from 3.33 showing Lilith's dramatic appearance. I've hidden the image in the spoiler tag below.

Spoiler

The injury above Lilith's right hip is even quite similar to the damage above the underwater giant's left in that previous picture.

 

[WMD]

The similarities actually extend even further in Evangelion Rebuild.
Here's a shot from 3.33 showing Lilith's dramatic appearance. I've hidden the image in the spoiler tag below.

Spoiler

View attachment 10009
The injury above Lilith's right hip is even quite similar to the damage above the underwater giant's left in that previous picture.

Oh wow. Anno really likes that image doesnt he. I've only seen 3.33 once so dont really remember much of it tbh.

 

[Professor Irony]

You mean you'd like to have seen Marie frolicking merrily in the sunshine, belting out at the top of her lungs...
♪Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me / I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed♪

I would pay all the money.

Episode 14

Then when Marie got ill I was surprised to see how much Sanson lost control. In fact it was really good to see how much character work the episode did with Sanson generally. Not just a lackey who follows Grandis but hes clearly led a pretty eventful and at times dark life!

Part of me still feels a little bit like it would have made more sense for the show to be set in the 1920s - much as I'm trying not to compare the show's setting to real world history too much, I find it hard not to think that Sanson is alluding to world war one.

Electra looked so dark and evil when talking to the engine mechanic. She really was ready to let the girls die for her own revenge! Thankfully Nemo is not so far gone.

That caught me off guard as well. I wasn't surprised that Nemo wouldn't sacrifice Marie and Nadia, but I was surprised that Electra would. Electra frequently seems quite motherly, or is at least willing to play nanny to the children, so for her to suddenly display such an apparent bloodlust is actually a little shocking - it's like a bit of a role reversal between the two.

Episode 15

Alas poor Fait. With hindsight, suddenly introducing a named crew member, only to have them killed off again quickly afterwards, seems like a cheap move to avoid bumping off an established character, but it's still a real emotional wallop when we hear his actual final words, as opposed to what he presumably intended his final words to be. The fact that it's a friendly fire incident into the bargain only heaps more fuel onto the tragic fire.

One thing that only caught my attention this time round is that there's a noticeable change in the dub regarding the Garfish's suicide run. In the dub, the navigation officer makes a comment along the lines of 'only Gargoyle would do something like this', whereas in the sub script, he merely states as fact that the Garfish made a suicide attack. Not a huge change, but given Anno's passion for WW2 vehicles, it would have been interesting if that kind of value judgment about kamikaze tactics had been in the original.

Incidentally, on the subject of Evangelion comparisons, I also keep feeling that the sub's corridors are very much like the ones in the NERV HQ.

Omake 3 (Episode 12)

This one is very, very much like the science lessons from Gunbuster, right down to the framing, as Electra and Nemo explain to Jean some of the ideas behind what powers the Nautilus. Nothing hugely exciting otherwise, but again, cute chibi characters.

 

[Neil.T]

Forgot to include this bit about yesterday's episode, so I'll drop it in now:

Episode 16

It was a bit distracting how Gargoyle's VA was voicing the Nautilus crew member who took the role of priest during his comrades' funeral. It's an act of cast economy that's kinda stretching things somewhat. (And there's another crew member he voices on top of that!)

Also, I'm now 100% certain that the Japanese narrator is indeed him as well. He's a busy man.

###

Episode 17

I liked the objective behind this episode. It's actually deceptively complex, Jean learning the differences between being a child and being an adult. First he's told that children rely on others while adults take care of things themselves, but then he's told that to stubbornly try to solve the technical problem with his new invention all by himself is childish, and that an adult would seek input or advice.

It's a facet of human interaction that would usually pass by without comment or even a second thought, but Anno manages to turn it into something quite deep and worthy of exploration here. Really well done.

 

[Neil.T]

Double-post, but something else to come back to here:

You mean you'd like to have seen Marie frolicking merrily in the sunshine, belting out at the top of her lungs...
♪Somebody once told me the world is gonna roll me / I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed♪

Yes. Definitely. And if there's ever a remake I hope that's what they do.

Perhaps we won't even have to wait for something similar to that; I acquired a second-hand copy of Gunbuster on DVD yesterday, and it got me thinking about this from a little while ago...

. . . the way they got around the music licensing issue was simply to remove and substitute the offending track(s) rather than hinder its release (I don't believe I've ever heard the original score, so don't feel too aggrieved as I don't even know what I'm missing)

Maybe if we ever get Gunbuster on BD at some point here, a deal can be struck between all parties involved to switch out the track again.

(Anyone interested in a Gunbuster simulwatch after Nadia?)

 

[Neil.T]

(Three in a row?)

Episode 18



It's the type of coat that Gendo and Fuyutsuki are seen wearing at the Antarctic in episode 21 of Evangelion, Grandis. I know it's only 1889 at the moment, but wait until 2002 and you'll see.


So... at 16mins 26secs into episode 18 here, there's a pun that doesn't carry in the subtitles. Jean has just noted that the giant sea creature the crew have seen looks like a squid (ika in Japanese), when our crewman Eiko says "Korya ikan!" ("This is not good!")
This explains why there's a few seconds of awkward silence after that.

 

[ayase]

(Anyone interested in a Gunbuster simulwatch after Nadia?)

Now that actually sounds a bit more achievable for me. I'd have liked to take part in this one, but I appear to have genuinely lost my Nadia discs. I mean no doubt they're in a box around here somewhere but it's currently a bit impractical to unpack all of my possessions to look for them. Still lurking as with the Eva thread.

 

[Neil.T]

Now that actually sounds a bit more achievable for me.

Excellent. We can start to sort that out after Nadia, then.

Off-topic for this thread, but just throwing it out there: another idea I had for a simulwatch is a combined run of Dominion Tank Police and New Dominion Tank Police. I acquired Acts III and IV of the original on DVD last year but have yet to watch them.

 

[Professor Irony]

Hopefully I'll get back to Nadia tonight - Netflix threw the second season of Mindhunter in my face the other day, and not a damn thing was done that night.

Anyone interested in a Gunbuster simulwatch after Nadia?

Confession time: I have watched a couple of episodes of Gunbuster, but I was very young at the time and I actually didn't like it. Would be curious to see if I feel differently about it now though.

Off-topic for this thread, but just throwing it out there: another idea I had for a simulwatch is a combined run of Dominion Tank Police and New Dominion Tank Police. I acquired Acts III and IV of the original on DVD last year but have yet to watch them.

Absolutely down for this. While think it's partly just the nostalgia talking, Dominion is one of my absolute favourites and it's been a long time since I've watched it.

 

[Neil.T]

@Professor Irony, @ayase:

How about we go for Gunbuster after Nadia to complete our Hideaki Anno hat-trick, and then move on to Dominion after that?

We can sort out the threads for them between us, too. I'll handle the one for Gunbuster unless ayase wants to do it, and perhaps the Prof would like to have dominion over the Dominion one?
(Sorry, couldn't resist. )

Just some suggestions.

 

[WMD]

Anyone know if theres an easy way to get hold of or watch Gunbuster? Dont really know anything about it.

 

[WMD]

Catching up a bit today so here's Episode 17

Fir all the talk of adults and children it like Nemo was the only mature person on the ship. His reason that they fight so people like jean don't have to adds some good weight to his previous actions.

Interesting how aggressive Sanson was in this in his attitudes to life and love but in the end karma taught him a lesson! And Hanson was really interesting in this episode. Both in his behaviour towards Electra and in how he lays it on to Jean about feeding himself.

It was completely mad that everyone stood so close to the helicopter blades when it started up! And going into a cloud would be so cold! Also enjoyed the guy swearing at Jean earlier in the nurse fan club bit:

 

[WMD]

And heres Episode 18

It's like the show realised it had forgotten there was a main story so we have a bit about the crew trying to find leads on Gargoyle only for the episode to once again go off in a random direction. Lol.

The conversation between Jean, Electra and Nadia with the computer was so weirdly done, like they were high or something.

Again the show excelled during the underwater scenes. The volcano was vibrant and menacing, the squid/shellfish thing had a mad design and really took a beating! I'd have let go long before it did!

It was also very true to form that Jean was more impressed at the man made tunnel than any of nature's wonders!