Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water simulwatch

Neil.T

Guild Member
Also enjoyed the guy swearing at Jean earlier in the nurse fan club bit
The moustached guy at the right of that image is hilarious! 😆

It's as if he's saying "Yeah? I'm a member of the fan club, so get it up ya!"

😅

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Episode 19

I really liked this cut during Nadia's telepathic conversation. It uses scrolling parallax layers foregrounded by skeletons, depicting mankind's history of war in a nightmarish vision.
IMG_20190817_191118701.jpg
It reminds me of Gekidan Inu Curry's work on the Labyrinths and Witches in Madoka Magica.

The sequence of the Nautilus docking at its hidden base was so clever, too. I counted six layers in total, including the background board. Very nice.
 
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WMD

Hunter
And finally today's Episode 19

I loved loads about this episode. The underground base was awesome and seeing its refining/manufacturing capabilities was impressive. The space elevator to the surface was equally cool and the show created some pretty weird history here. The world tree, the Saurians and their bizarre sun spot induced extinction. The penguins were cute too!

As @Neil.T said the nightmarish vision shot was really well done, as was then base and also the aurora at the end was a pretty stunning image.
 

Neil.T

Guild Member
The underground base was awesome
It's like the kind of thing that Hideaki Anpanman might've seen in an episode of Thunderbirds. Eh, @Professor Irony?

😆

Anyone know if theres an easy way to get hold of or watch Gunbuster?
As far as I'm aware, unfortunately not. The only UK release it ever got on disc was a tape-transfer DVD from the defunct Kiseki anime label.

A second-hand copy from CEX will set you back £30. 😬
I can attest to that.

There's nowhere it's legally streaming either. 😕
 

Professor Irony

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Moderator
How about we go for Gunbuster after Nadia to complete our Hideaki Anno hat-trick, and then move on to Dominion after that?

We can sort out the threads for them between us, too. I'll handle the one for Gunbuster unless ayase wants to do it, and perhaps the Prof would like to have dominion over the Dominion one?
(Sorry, couldn't resist. 😅)

Just some suggestions. 🙂
Sure, I'd be fine with that.

It's like the kind of thing that Hideaki Anpanman might've seen in an episode of Thunderbirds. Eh, @Professor Irony?
Funnily enough (mild spoiler for a thing later in the show, maybe?), there's a direct reference to Thunderbirds in one of the Island episodes - it's one of the few things worth watching out for in that part.
 
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Ended up watching episode 20 last night whilst I was on a but if a run if episodes. I'll prob start binge watching the rest tonight so I can finish the whole thing off before I go on holiday. I'll make notes on main story episodes and save them so I can upload them in the correct days for the discussion.

Episode 20

And so the main plot resumes! Gargoyle and his lot have been busy taking over the world economy. And what about those death scythe dudes flanking gargolye. Talk a out maintaining an image!

Marie and kings face game was a fun use of the animation budget. Gives a bit of time with them whilst also acting as a comparison to Nadias unease.

So Jean has invented rocket drones now! Hes like a mini Tony Stark, weapons just fall out of him and he doesnt even know it! I enjoyed Nadia casually doing a flip over it whilst everyone else panicked and scrambled. Also why are they washing in a tub and not have washing machines? Or is that just Grandis wanting to wash Nemo's stuff by hand and forcing the other two to join her?

Why did Jean lie about getting a haircut from Electra? Or at least try to. Very badly.

Gargoyle has quite the military might at his disposal. Not just a cult group but huge well oiled machine by the look of it. He just knows how to be menacing doesnt he.

And interesting to hear about the banner of the cause but still not deluding themselves that revenge is a big part of it! It makes them much more complex. They rationalise that they are saving the world but still acknowledge how and why they are doing it. The reward for winning will be personal vengeance not the glory of being a hero.
 

Neil.T

Guild Member
I'll make notes on main story episodes and save them so I can upload them in the correct day
Nice. That's the same thing I've been doing with our simulwatches, too. Solid plan. 👍

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Episode 20

"Nadia, please don't say such sad things."

The impact of Nemo's line — literally, as he slaps her across the cheek with the back of his hand for expressing a hatred towards adults and their ways. There are things we clearly don't know about the past yet.
 
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Episode 21

Love how assured and unflappable Nemo is when under pressure. Even when those around him doubt him hes measured and then takes action! When they grounded on the seabed the shot made me think of a spaceship crashing the moon!20190820_183615.jpg

Gargolye really is willing to sacrifice a lot of resources to get to Nemo! It's almost like a game to him.

The massive magnet labelled with N and S is so funny, like an old school children's magnet. Kinda adds to Gargoyles game mentality.

The ship being ripped apart was really something. So savage those the shows image of ultimate safety being wrecked like that and I really liked how the debris formed in magnetic field lines around the Nautilus like iron filings. 20190820_191141.jpg

Grandis really laid into electra. I’m glad she did tbh; It’s pretty rude to assume everyone is happy to die for your pettiness.

Nadia running into the deck was so stupid. 🤦‍♂️ Like so obviously stupid. Shes once again lucky Jean was there to get her out of trouble.

Finally, how did anyone survive that fall back to the ocean?!
 

Neil.T

Guild Member
Episode 21

Ah-hahhh! Here they are! 😃

A trio of pieces from this episode's musical score actually crop up in Evangelion 3.33 in grander forms. In 3.33 chronological order, these are...
Dark Defender:

The Anthem:

God's Message:

Couldn't help but notice as well the obvious similarity between Gargoyle's space battleship and Neon Genesis Evangelion's 10th Angel, Sahaquiel. Comparison:
Nadia battleship resized.png
Nadia: Gargoyle's space battleship

12_C250_sahaquiel.jpg
Evangelion: the 10th Angel, Sahaquiel

The ship being ripped apart was really something. So savage
Oh, totally! The whole action sequence that ended with the Nautilus's last remaining missile puncturing the enemy's bomb before it was released was absolutely stunning. What an awful sight to see the Nautilus in such a horrible mess, though.

Plus...! "We're blasting off again!" As a last observation here, the Grandis trio felt more like Team Rocket than ever in this episode!
 
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Plus...! "We're blasting off again!" As a last observation here, t😃he Grandis trio felt more like Team Rocket than ever in this episode!
I said this for episode 1:
The villains intro reminded me of both Laputa and Pokemon!
I found this on wikipedia about the production of the series:
This series' origins date to the mid-1970s when Hayao Miyazaki was hired by Toho to develop a television series. One of these concepts was "Around the World in 80 days by Sea", (adapted from Jules Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea), in which two orphan children pursued by villains team up with Captain Nemo and the Nautilus. It was never produced, but Toho retained the rights for the story outline, while Miyazaki reused elements from his original concept in later projects like Future Boy Conan and Castle in the Sky.

It's amazing how far back elements of this show go!

@Neil.T That Angel comparison is spot on!
 

ayase

State Alchemist
Plus...! "We're blasting off again!" As a last observation here, the Grandis trio felt more like Team Rocket than ever in this episode!
As a less Nadia focused aside, I think @Professor Irony was correct earlier in stating this particular villainous trio trope can be traced back to Time Bokan (I can’t recall any earlier examples though I’d be interested to know) though probably moreso via its sequel Yatterman. It’s kind of amazing just how influential the Doronbo gang has been on subsequent media, not only the likes of Grandis & Co and Team Rocket but in western cartoons as well - Off the top of my head the villains of cartoons I watched as a kid like The Smoggies and Gadget Boy also fit the mould. Appropriately enough, it could perhaps even be argued it appears in a gender swapped form in Dominion with Buaku and the Puma Sisters.
 

Professor Irony

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Moderator
Rumours of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. And I finished Mindhunter S2.

Episode 16

Part of the reason I was putting this one off was just that I wanted to wait until I could give it my full attention. It's not my absolute favourite episode, but it's undeniably the one that stays with me the most. There's so much going on here. Nadia's black and white expressionist inner-world certainly predicts Shinji's mindscape in Evangelion, but there's also that submerged giant guardian. As much as it's scale suggests Adam (and was it just me or were the struts inside the cave piercing it like spears?), I feel there's also something of Greek myth about it - it's like the monster that protects the entrance to this other world.

Atlantis has an eerie beauty all its own too, with sunken amphiteatres, ecletic religious markers and melting buildings admist a rose-coloured desert. It's like a Salvador Dali painting of an atom-bomb site.

As I think I commented last time around, it's also notable how low-key the show is about the reveal of Jean's father having died when Villan's ship was wrecked. There are no histrionics, Jean just goes off on his own to try and process what's happened. Nadia coming to comfort him feels a little surprising, given how generally sad and angry she's been throughout the rest of the episode, but I suppose it makes sense that she would feel the need to put a brave face on it, after even Jean's constant bonhomie has failed him.
 

WMD

Hunter
Episode 22

What a bold ep title. What’s gona happen?! With everything that's happening immediately on tenterhooks!

Everything tinted red was really ominous, though as Gargoyle said the Nautilus and its crew are resilient.

I really was not expecting Gargoyle to be reporting to someone. Hes been so in control the idea of him being anyones lackey is just weird! Also the Neo Atlantian leader comes across as an emotionless zombie child no less!

Oof that goodbye between Nemo and the kids. The captains hat felt real heavy to hand over. Especially with the true reveal of how him and Nadia are related! Hes putting so much trust in Jean.

Why do you have that gun Electra?! This betrayal is super weird. It’s basically just to allow an exposition dump but the problem is that Nemo already knows all this and Electra knows he knows it all too so why is this conversation even happening? Just really contrived. But on the plus side the washed out animation style for the flashback was really cool.
Electra was so petty in all this and also a terrible shot. But Nemos powerplay to say he did it for Electra was a baller move to save his life.
 

Neil.T

Guild Member
Why do you have that gun Electra?! This betrayal is super weird. It’s basically just to allow an exposition dump but the problem is that Nemo already knows all this and Electra knows he knows it all too so why is this conversation even happening? Just really contrived. But on the plus side the washed out animation style for the flashback was really cool.
I preferred the form to the content, too. The way that the entire flashback sequence was presented in animatic form was a typically Anno-like method of saving time and budget while creating something interesting and unusual at the same time.

I've got to admit that the actual story presented in the flashback rather lost me, though. This "light" that killed the queen... What was it? Who caused it? Nemo? The rebels led by Gargoyle?

And then we see an angry Nemo being shot by one of Gargoyle's cronies, only to then somehow be wandering around free before running into young Electra. And how in the hell was he able to infiltrate the Tower of Babel and remove the Blue Water to trigger its destruction?

I also thought that the scene where Electra overhears Nemo's conversation was pretty clumsily executed on a technical level: there are only two figures seen in silhouette at the other side of the door, but three voices are heard — and the unseen character has the same VA as Gargoyle! I had to watch the flashback again to notice that it was a three-man party who found Electra, and one of them is the Nautilus crewman who's been voiced during the series by Gargoyle's VA (except the previous time he cropped up, where he was voiced by someone else 😅).

Moving on from that, I was surprised to see the set-up for the "Island" episodes come at the end of a non-Island episode. 🤨
I was under the impression that they were just kinda spliced in, but... well, I'll confess that I've already watched the first post-Island episode and... I really don't think that skipping them is a very good idea for first-time viewers at all. I feel like I've lost the thread somewhat now, and some notable things have happened in the episodes I've missed. I'll soldier on in the meantime, but I'll be looking forward to going back and filling in the blanks.

As a less Nadia focused aside, I think @Professor Irony was correct earlier in stating this particular villainous trio trope can be traced back to Time Bokan
To this day, I still don't know the first thing about Time Bokan. I really need to finally get around to looking it up sometime.
 
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This is my first time watching and I'm on the last 'Island' episode now and tbh they are mostly pretty bad.

Jean and Nadia are regressed and put into arrested development and it's super tedious to watch the same stuff we've seen all series super condensed and filling several episodes.

Also the different styles lead to some weird choices like looney tones physics being used and stuff like that that doesnt fit.

30 and 31 are prob the only ones that need to be seen and are the most interesting of the bunch.
 

Professor Irony

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Yeah, I don't think it'll matter too much as I believe you guys have already watched ahead, but I did mean to mention that ep22 marks the end of act 2 and the island episodes begin with ep23. I'm not going to bother going through all the island episodes this time - it'll give me a chance to catch up properly - but, while I agree with WMD that 30 and 31 are a bit more interesting than the rest, I still think even they are skippable and nothing of any real consequence happens during that arc.
 
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Neil.T

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I watched episode 23, then skipped to episode 31 as per NEO magazine's suggestion from when they reviewed the series, then on to episode 35.

I was left wondering where the hell Grandis and co. came from, and the same with Ayerton (who has returned with not just his his new voice from his last appearance in the show, but also with a new personality as well this time, apparently!).

Next thing I knew, the gang had finally arrived in Africa, and I was left with absolutely no idea how. Skipping the Island episodes perhaps works for a rewatch, but definitely not first time around, I don't think. 😕
 

Professor Irony

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Ah, okay. I'm probably just remembering this wrongly. I know Ayerton did turn up during that arc, but I thought he was written out again before it ended.
 

WMD

Hunter
I watched episode 23, then skipped to episode 31 as per NEO magazine's suggestion from when they reviewed the series, then on to episode 35.

I was left wondering where the hell Grandis and co. came from, and the same with Ayerton (who has returned with not just his his new voice from his last appearance in the show, but also with a new personality as well this time, apparently!).

Next thing I knew, the gang had finally arrived in Africa, and I was left with absolutely no idea how. Skipping the Island episodes perhaps works for a rewatch, but definitely not first time around, I don't think. 😕
Yeah that's probably fair. Its felt to me like they're full of plot, theres a lot if moving around and stuff happening, but little story, theres no character development and mostly what happens is inconsequential. Expect for the broad strokes of how the groups get from a to b.

I think the different styles and tones of other directors is the main problem though. At times it's like watching fan fiction rather than the source material and some episodes seemed to be deciding lacking in budget at times.
 

Neil.T

Guild Member
At times it's like watching fan fiction rather than the source material and some episodes seemed to be deciding lacking in budget at times.
Yeah, those two things I can well imagine, actually. 😬

I meant to return to this, too, by the way:
I found this on wikipedia about the production of the series:
This series' origins date to the mid-1970s when Hayao Miyazaki was hired by Toho to develop a television series. One of these concepts was "Around the World in 80 days by Sea", (adapted from Jules Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea), in which two orphan children pursued by villains team up with Captain Nemo and the Nautilus.
Wikipedia goes as far as to list Miyazaki as an uncredited writer of the series:
Written byStory:
Hayao Miyazaki (not credited)
Hideaki Anno
 

Professor Irony

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As I remember hearing it, the network made a late-game decision to change the show from 26 to 39 episodes, without providing any additional budget, which would explain the alarming drop in quality during that third section (allegedly the work was farmed out to a budget studio in Korea). Supposedly, it was his experience of working on Nadia that was the main contributing factor to Anno's breakdown in the early 90s.
 
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