Is anime inaccessible for those on lower income?

ayase said:
It's hardly the fault of poor anime fans that TV channels don't show anime, yet give them 24/7 free access to Come Dancing With Me I'm a Celebrity With No Talent. Should they just make do with the free entertainment on offer because they're too poor to afford better quality entertainment they'd actually enjoy?
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To add on from this point, if you do have access to SKY then there is anime available on TV, but obviously not in the same quantity as Toonami has in America....

Film 4 - Shows Ghibli movies throughout the year
KIX TV - Currently airing Dragonball Z Kai, Inazuma Eleven, Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal, Dragon King etc...
Sony Movie Channel Shows anime on Monday nights at 1am, it's currently airing Bleach Season 2 as well as 'Memories of Nobody' next Monday, but has also shown things like the Berserk movies, Mardock Scramble movies, Black Lagoon TV Series & OVAs etc
CITV Currently airing Digimon Fusion and Pokemon
 
st_owly said:
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And as I said before, if you are so poor you can't afford a computer and internet connection, your local library is your best friend.

People with more money having a better experience isn't just an anime thing IMO, it's true across most hobbies I can think of.
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I disagree with your point that they should go to the local library. Not all free access PCs allow streaming capabilities for example. It may cost money to get to the library in the first place. So, anime quickly becomes an experience which is costly and becomes inaccessible for the lowest incomes.

@Rui: I see your point but I wasn't trying to make the topic personal. Having a degree does not equate to a guaranteed job or lifestyle (but I digress). Anime is extremely accessible if you have the income to get involved in the community by buying the latest anime and partaking in conversations. Does anyone want to discuss old Manga classics like Gall Force? No...? Therefore only the most popular and usually (expensive) anime are worthy of the community time. Shutting out the poorest who have to pick up cheap anime DVDs that no one watches any more.

britguy said:
The second part of your statement I have bolded is another sign of the whole entitlement attitude that exists primarily in the lower income households (which I was raised in, and still classify myself in due to the fact i'm not on a huge wage) I work my arse off to get by, and i know countless individuals who don't and yet seem to have a higher quality life than me on the back of hand outs. They feel it is their RIGHT to have a good TV, their RIGHT to have Sky, their RIGHT to have a car, their RIGHT to go on holidays and now from what I read, you believe it should be a RIGHT to watch and consume anime? It's not, and imo, none of that is. It's all well and good saying "why should we deprive them of anime" but then if they're not paying or it's at a ridiculously low cost, then where is the money coming to subsidise all this? Who pays for the licenses, who pays for the subbing, dubbing and production of the media? where does the money for all of this come from if people are barely paying for it, if at all?
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Now, you have decided to make it personal. My attitude only exists in lower income households? Really? It seems I've hit a nerve. I was simply making an argument for the case that anime is inaccessible for the lowest incomes by using my poor student status as an example. This can be applied to the wider bracket as I am by no means unique in my situation. Everyone has a right to a form of entertainment and if anime is the one they pick, then it shouldn't be unaffordable. Pointing out a selection of DVDs as being 'cheap' is unhelpful. Widening accessibility would be beneficial to everyone.
 
britguy said:
I work my arse off to get by, and i know countless individuals who don't and yet seem to have a higher quality life than me on the back of hand outs.
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You'll have to introduce me to the heads of RBS and Lloyds some time.

entitlement attitude that exists primarily in the lower income households
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I think an entitlement attitude certainly exists, but at all levels of society. A lot of the middle class seem more concerned with house prices staying high so they don't lose out than the fact that there are a lot of working people on low wages who still need benefits (which then need to come out of taxes) to be able to afford rental payments because of these high house prices. Similarly, I'm aware a lot of people who pirate anime are people who could easily afford it. Ultimately almost everyone, rich and poor, has become a selfish bastard willing to screw anyone else over to get what they want, be it anime or anything else. The dream has been realised. Thanks Mrs. T.
 
@neptune Hey, nothing personal meant. That was not an attack on you, more an observation on the people who live around me. Plus my usage of the word "primarily" does not equate to "only"

Explain to me how you'd widen accessibility then, in relation to what I asked "who subsidises all this"

edit

You could use the term inaccessible about EVERY hobby. Gaming is inaccessible to the lower income because of the initial £300 outlay needed for a console and the few hundred needed for an HD TV.
 
neptune2venus said:
Anime is extremely accessible if you have the income to get involved in the community by buying the latest anime and partaking in conversations. Does anyone want to discuss old Manga classics like Gall Force? No...? Therefore only the most popular and usually (expensive) anime are worthy of the community time. Shutting out the poorest who have to pick up cheap anime DVDs that no one watches any more.
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I'm sorry, but it seems that nothing we say is going to 'convince you' that anime can be an affordable hobby.
 
GolGotha said:
I'm sorry, but it seems that nothing we say is going to 'convince you' that anime can be an affordable hobby.
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There have been some good examples how anime has been getting cheaper and is affordable to an extent. But it really isn't an affordable hobby for low income in my opinion. Do I need to be convinced that it is?

Britguy said:
Explain to me how you'd widen accessibility then, in relation to what I asked "who subsidises all this"
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I feel this may verge into a political debate if I'm not careful. Accessibility rests not just on the shoulders of the anime companies who set the prices but also the outlets who sell them. Subsidising makes it feel like we are all paying for someone else to have it better. This is simply not the case with anime, it isn't a subsidiary so no-one is ultimately subsiding. Also, the anime community itself could be a bit more open without resorting to a defence that if you can't afford it then don't bother. That's half the problem.

I think acknowledgement that more can be done is at least a start. That's what discussions are all about.
 
neptune2venus said:
Does anyone want to discuss old Manga classics like Gall Force?
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*raises hand*

I'm not entirely sure this discussion is going to go anywhere now - I think the answer to the question "Is anime inaccessible for those on lower income?" is no if you want to do it legally. And I don't really think there's a legal way of making it accessible for those on lower income (perhaps short of worldwide communist revolution) because it comes down to what wages people can earn or expect to earn in different countries. The people who produce anime need a certain level of income as do the people who want to buy it, and without altering both of those things nothing is likely to change.
 
neptune2venus said:
Britguy said:
Explain to me how you'd widen accessibility then, in relation to what I asked "who subsidises all this"
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I feel this may verge into a political debate if I'm not careful. Accessibility rests not just on the shoulders of the anime companies who set the prices but also the outlets who sell them. Subsidising makes it feel like we are all paying for someone else to have it better. This is simply not the case with anime, it isn't a subsidiary so no-one is ultimately subsiding. Also, the anime community itself could be a bit more open without resorting to a defence that if you can't afford it then don't bother. That's half the problem.

I think acknowledgement that more can be done is at least a start. That's what discussions are all about.
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It costs money to make anime. It costs money to market anime. It costs money to sell anime.

If we want anime to be produced, then it needs to be profitable for the companies who make it. If they break even or make a loss then investors will not be interested and new shows will not be produced. If new shows are not produced then there is no anime, therefore it makes sense that there should be a cost attached to anime.

If you want shows to be sold at lower costs, then where does the money come from to dub and sub it. If a show barely makes a profit selling 500 copies at £25 and you want it say £10 or less (or whatever you decree accessible to be) then it will need to sell 1250+ copies. Can companies afford the risk of cutting the costs to this? Say they did, and it bombed, your not just risking your own livelihood, but everyone who works at your company. There would need to be a worldwide change to the financial and economical system, not just with regards to anime, before we could get to a situation where EVERYTHING is accessible to people of any financial background. As i've mentioned many times before, it's not just anime that accessibility can be discussed about.

I'm sorry you can't afford to "keep up with the Joneses" in your anime clubs at university, but then the question is, do you need to? People have already laid out the facts that you can access anime as long as you're not after the newest or premium products. You don't need to have the newest shiniest things to be an anime fan or to enjoy anime.

edit - Plus you have yet to describe how you would make anime more accessible, and how this would work in teh grand scheme of things.
 
neptune2venus said:
Anime is extremely accessible if you have the income to get involved in the community by buying the latest anime and partaking in conversations. Does anyone want to discuss old Manga classics like Gall Force? No...? Therefore only the most popular and usually (expensive) anime are worthy of the community time. Shutting out the poorest who have to pick up cheap anime DVDs that no one watches any more.
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This is where I have to disagree to some extent. If anything, the old classics are perfect for discussion since they've been released so many times by now that anyone who wants to has probably seen them.

The need to keep up and watch only the newest, shiniest titles is a self-perpetuating illusion. Look closely at the titles many of the regulars are into and you can plainly see many of us are stuck in the 90s, the 80s and beyond. How many times have I seen someone post in the viewing journal about some mediocre show they've picked up on a deal and become charmed by? It only takes one other person to think back to how much they enjoyed watching Blue Seed or Cyber City or Gasaraki and then there's a fun conversation started which anyone can appreciate.

Sure there are a bunch of people talking about Seraph of the End and Food Wars too, and many who just post titles and episode numbers and never say a word on the actual content because there's no time in between updating their lists on MAL and AP then moving on to the next episode of something else like a machine, but those mediocre old shows still had as much love and attention put into their creation as the current popular titles. If the people on lower income want to fight back by starting discussions about the latest DotW bargains from yesteryear, I'm sure everyone benefits!

If you're surrounded by 'fans' who only want to talk about the latest episode of One Piece and nothing else, I think the problem is with them and not the industry as a whole. We all have different tastes anyway; what value is there in only watching the current flavours of the month and ignoring the breadth of the experience the whole anime world has to offer?

R
 
britguy said:
I'm sorry you can't afford to "keep up with the Jones's" in your anime clubs at university, but then the question is, do you need to? People have already laid out the facts that you can access anime as long as you're not after the newest or premium products.
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And you have missed the point of the discussion completely. For your information, I am not part of any anime club, I was using it as an example to open up the debate. The discussion topic is anime inaccessible for those on lower income? Not whether I can afford to keep up with rich students.

ayase said:
neptune2venus said:
Does anyone want to discuss old Manga classics like Gall Force?
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*raises hand*

I'm not entirely sure this discussion is going to go anywhere now - I think the answer to the question "Is anime inaccessible for those on lower income?" is no if you want to do it legally. And I don't really think there's a legal way of making it accessible for those on lower income (perhaps short of worldwide communist revolution) because it comes down to what wages people can earn or expect to earn in different countries. The people who produce anime need a certain level of income as do the people who want to buy it, and without altering both of those things nothing is likely to change.
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Yes, sadly this is apparent. Of course those who create anime need to be paid but this is going a bit off-topic. I stand by my stance that lower incomes cannot afford anime and recognition of this, at least, is better than nothing. Understanding builds bridges and all that.

An old anime discussion would be great too!
 
neptune2venus said:
And you have missed the point of the discussion completely. For your information, I am not part of any anime club, I was using it as an example to open up the debate. The discussion topic is anime inaccessible for those on lower income? Not whether I can afford to keep up with rich students
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and you seem to like not responding to my question, how would you make anime more accessible to the lower income individuals and how would it work in the grand scheme of things.

At the end of the day you kept harping on about "the community only talks about the best and nrwest things" its easy to see why id make the connection to the anime club you mentioned at the beginning in your op because this community doesn't do that.
 
neptune2venus said:
GolGotha said:
I'm sorry, but it seems that nothing we say is going to 'convince you' that anime can be an affordable hobby.
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There have been some good examples how anime has been getting cheaper and is affordable to an extent. But it really isn't an affordable hobby for low income in my opinion. Do I need to be convinced that it is?
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All hobby's can seem expensive when you start up. If you're interested in photography, you don't NEED the latest camera and all the add-ons to enjoy it, you would pick one suitable for your budget and build your kit up over time as your talent grew. The same goes for anime.

If Student A stumbles across anime for the first time and currently only has a Saturday job, they can still afford to buy a boxset a week thanks to MVM. Sure it's not going to be the newest release, or in the nicest packaging, but that person probably won't care, they will probably be fascinated by what they've seen - like we all were when we first got into the franchise.
 
neptune2venus said:
GolGotha said:
I'm sorry, but it seems that nothing we say is going to 'convince you' that anime can be an affordable hobby.
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There have been some good examples how anime has been getting cheaper and is affordable to an extent. But it really isn't an affordable hobby for low income in my opinion. Do I need to be convinced that it is?
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Is anything which isn't absolutely essential affordable to those on the lowest incomes? Most hobbies short of going for walks around your local neighbourhood require some kind of monetary investment to get involved in them. Even a pen and drawing paper costs money.

I think anime is more accessible than most other niche media interests. I certainly can't think of any other type of TV programming which has multiple streaming services, which are accessible for free, specifically dedicated to it.
 
Lutga said:
I used to buy stuff from Games Workshop - now that was an expensive hobby and a half.
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Aye thats the truth. I still have a cupboard full of Skaven and Chaos Space marines...

I went to see System of a Down in london recently when you factor in ticket trains and booze it was not cheap at all.

I dont feel that anime is the most expensive hobby if you compare it to some. Of course Aniplex pricing model not withstanding...
 
In regards to pirates- people can stand on their moral high horses all they want but it wont stop anyone from doing it or feeling they are in the wrong. As long as people buy some of the series they really like- I don't mind.
 
black1blade said:
In regards to pirates- people can stand on their moral high horses all they want but it wont stop anyone from doing it or feeling they are in the wrong. As long as people buy some of the series they really like- I don't mind.
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I bet all the people trying to make an honest living working in the industry would love to hear that...

I genuinely do wonder, if the tables were turned, how people would feel.

I hate the idea that this is some kind of soft crime with no victims - at the end of the day, it is illegal, plain and simple.
 
The law doesn't dictate right and wrong though. I am not saying that piracy isn't wrong but it would only take every single pirate to buy their fav series to make a difference.
 
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