Is anime inaccessible for those on lower income?

I thought that this would be a great topic to open up some debate.

I'm a mature student of nearly 30 years of age, I have a part-time job, pay extortionate rent etc. In other words, I am pretty poor as my income is extremely limited and most goes on my rent (such is life).

When I first joined this forum, downloading was not fast and streaming was non-existent. Now, there are a wealth of anime you can find online through services such as Crunchyroll, Netflix, Hulu etc. These require an internet connection and those who may not be able to afford good internet may struggle to see anime. The cheapest internet is not unlimited and students on university campus (from what I hear) cannot stream services like Netflix so they have to find other means.

Anime is very much a middle-class product. I can say this as I have observed affluent students join these clubs and think nothing of dropping £80 on a figurine or £50 for a 13 episode series. To join in these debates you have to be up to date with the latest anime. Of course this is not limited to students - this disparity can be applied to the general population.

I'm putting forward the view that only is anime expensive, it is only readily available for those with disposable income. If you are on low income and like anime, it has to pretty much your only hobby. Merchandise, figurines, conventions and cosplay are outwith the poor person's means. Yes I know, jobs are available. But how accessible is anime for those on the poorest disposable income bracket? Probably not very much. Legal streaming is the way forward but unlimited internet is at least £25 per month, plus access to a pc/laptop plus subscription can all add up. Anime is almost always set at a premium (just look at those second hand prices for example for some series).

So in sum, I do not think anime is very accessible. Sure, you could save up a little each week (I know this too well) but games and films are cheaper in the long run. Manage to save up for that super-duper ultra special collector's edition? Well tough, you're six months too late and scalpers are selling it on Amazon/eBay for £150+.

What do you all think?
 
I understand where you're coming from, but, as I think you've touched on in passing, I feel it depends a lot on how much someone wants keep up with the 'debate' as it happens. Watching shows as they come out demands an internet connection, but it's still entirely feasible to buy cheap second hand DVDs of older series or films, then sell them on again after viewing to recoup some of the cost.

University and college clubs might be filled with people who enjoy flaunting their exorbitant spending, but they do also still show anime in exchange for a nominal membership fee, and one of the clubs I was involved with ran a free DVD lending service for its members.

Basically, I think actually watching anime needn't be expensive, but as with many other pastimes, it's having that extra layer of involvement that makes it so.
 
It depends on how much anime you want to buy, If your like me and want almost everything that you see then of course it's gonna be a super expensive hobby but the market is far more accessible now than it was just 5-10 years ago.

It also depends on what format you want, if you're the kind of person who absolutely must have the blu-ray version then it's gonna cost you even more, especially since some series can only be imported that way as well, but if your like me and can't see what the big difference is between the two formats then you can stick with good ol reliable DVD and save yurself sum cash.

I bought the original Fullmetal Alchemist release from MVM/Revelation over 13 single volumes at £20 each from places like HMV/Virgin/Zavvi, that cost me a grand total of £260 for 51 episodes back in the day, but just last summer I got the entire Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Collection containing all 64 eps on DVD for £35 of Amazon, Blu-ray was in two parts and cost £30 each at the time from amazon totaling £60 which is still far cheaper than what the original series originally cost me but i decided to go with the DVD and spend that extra £25 on another series since blu-ray's aren't that big a deal to me.

You can get the upcoming title Sankarea on DVD from Amazon right now for £21.50, back in the beginning that woulda been 3 or 4 separate volumes with 3 episodes costing £60-80. so even the RRP of Sankarea (£29.99) is still cheaper than what it would have been 5-10 years ago.

In my ideal world we would see 10-13 episode series at £10 and 22-26 episode series at £20 and 50 episode series at £30 but as of now that's just my dream but I can't complain since I have gotten stuff like Keniichi, brotherhood and Soul Eater on DVD for pretty much £30 thanks to amazon.
 
I'd say it's pretty affordable these days - as long as you've got an internet connection and are willing to watch ads/can afford a fairly cheap sub fee, Crunchyroll has probably more anime than you could ever watch in a lifetime on it. And to be honest, apart from a few omissions, they get most of the latest stuff too.

As for physical releases - I suppose it's how much you want to restrict yourself by. Do you go for only the titles you know you absolutely can't live without, or do you set aside a certain amount of money each month and then go from there in terms of your purchases.
 
I don't think it is. Yes, unlike with gaming, sometimes anime distributors are unable to offer a standard edition alongside a collectors edition on release and instead have the standard edition released a year or so later, which may feel like anime is only made for those with more income, but like with everything, anime does get a cheaper release down the line.

With games there are 'Game of the Year' editions which usually come with all the DLCs at a fraction of the price, with anime we have MVMs 'deal of the week' and Anime Limited's 'bare bones' releases.

But yes, for those who are unable to stream things it may seem they cannot participate in the latest discussions at their local anime club and such, but that doesn't mean that other older/more accessible titles can't be watched instead? Also, doesn't MVM give out free copies of anime DVDs for such things?

As for the cost of out of print titles on eBay, that applies to everything outside of anime as well, so don't take that to heart, it's just simply a case of people trying their luck.
 
Unfortunately, we don't get everything we want in life without having to work for it or make sacrifices. Anime isn't a right, it's a niche pastime, and due to it's niche-ness the prices are going to be higher. W're not talking about videogames that can seel millions of copies, or TV shows with pressing of tens of thousands, we're talking about a hobby where people celebrate when a single title breaks 1000 copies sold. In now world is there a place where the physical releases can be any cheaper and distributors still break even or make money.

WIth regards to second hand prices, it's all about supply and demand. Releases for titles whose license has expired or a distributor has ceased trading will likely always cost a premium because they are rare, just look at OOP videogames or retro titles, they often go for prices higher than a typical new gen release.

When I was unemployed I couldnt afford to do much. I literally had enough money to pay bills and pay bus fare while job hunting. Anime was not a priority then and rightly so. £25 a month for internet a month is a very low barrier for access to free LEGAL streaming. If you cant afford that then maybe anime isn't for you right now, but in a few years it might be the right time for you.
 
Anime is very accessible, it just depends on what methods of accessing it you're comfortable with.

If we lived in a fair society britguy, I'd agree with you. However, we live in an unequal society where social mobility has ground to a standstill, the price of housing is vastly over-inflated and eats up far too much of people's income and a lot of people are in part-time jobs and have to work and claim benefits because work alone won't pay their bills. And as I've found out, if you pass the age of 24 and don't have any A-Level or equivalent qualifications, the system essentially throws you on the scrapheap and offers you little opportunity to better yourself - as a mature student in a similar situation to neptune2venus I can certainly sympathise.

In my view you should pay for anime if you can afford to do so - I don't think there's anything wrong with the prices being charged by the distributors (though some would no doubt disagree). They've worked out how they can best make a profit, and I doubt anyone knows their business better that they do. If you genuinely can't afford to buy anime there's no real reason to deprive yourself of it barring your own sense of morality, and morality is largely subjective.
 
Ayase, you're closing statement sort of promotes illegal methods. Anime is not a necessity in life, it is a simple pleasure people can live without in my opinion. It isn't something like food or water which we need to survive, which I'd agree, if you can't afford it then I can understand why you might go the route of stealing, but this is a modern comfort we're talking about.
 
When I was unemployed and just living off my savings/small amounts of freelance work - I made a pact to myself. £100 to spend on luxuries a month, no more, no less. That more than gave me enough to be getting on with. After all, with the likes of iPlayer/streaming services out there, there really is so much entertainment out there you can consume for free (if you take internet costs out of the equation)

If you consider you only have a certain amount of free time a day to spend on enjoying 'luxuries', you just come back to consuming what you can, within your means.
 
britguy said:
Ayase, you're closing statement sort of promotes illegal methods. Anime is not a necessity in life, it is a simple pleasure people can live without in my opinion. It isn't something like food or water which we need to survive, which I'd agree, if you can't afford it then I can understand why you might go the route of stealing, but this is a modern comfort we're talking about.
I think really, the question neptune2venus is asking is whether it's fair that certain forms of entertainment should be off-limits to poorer people. I'd say no. It's hardly the fault of poor anime fans that TV channels don't show anime, yet give them 24/7 free access to Come Dancing With Me I'm a Celebrity With No Talent. Should they just make do with the free entertainment on offer because they're too poor to afford better quality entertainment they'd actually enjoy? Like I say, if I thought it was just a case of them getting off their arses and making money, I'd agree wholeheartedly that's what they should do. But the lack of opportunity for people in Britain today to better themselves is absolutely woeful, which is the fault of the successive governments for creating such an awful society.
 
We've all been there (probably?) and I feel very lucky that I've managed to hold a not-even-slightly illustrious job for long enough to be able to support my anime habit, which takes pretty much 100% of my disposable income in one way or another. It's completely correct that there's a certain minimum threshold of wealth needed to enjoy the hobby; even more so now manga is going digital and libraries can't help. In my youth I would special order anime VHS tapes at my local library as I couldn't afford them. Not sure whether this is even possible these days but I do know younger people who look to libraries for their manga fix, and Viz's 'digital only' series are completely out of their reach unless they can stump up the money for a pricey tablet. Not realistic.

Clubs and university societies are one solution if you're able to use them, but not everyone is - I never had the opportunity for higher education myself and I'm certain that I'm not the only person out there in that position. People who are truly struggling to get by and have no disposable income aren't going to have a way to watch anime or consume manga at all, legally or illegally (unlimited Internet and PCs still cost money if you're choosing to torrent rather than use a free legal service like Viewster or Daisuki). Wherever you are on the spectrum above those people, you simply have to prioritise. Do you want a social life, an amazing collection of anime box sets or something else? Are you on low income, but sufficiently hooked on anime you'll give everything else up just to keep up, and invest all your free time into keeping up with news and hunting down bargains to stretch your money as far as possible? I doubt many people are that way (and I'm not sure it's even healthy) but everyone has to find the answers for themselves.

Sadly the pressure to 'keep up' with the latest discussions isn't always better even when you have the means to pay for it. These days I can theoretically afford subscriptions to every legal streaming service and the odd Aniplex box set, thankfully, but instead of lacking money to buy the anime I now lack the time to watch all of the latest series to participate in discussions instead. I was working 18 hour days for two weeks solid recently; rewatch something I've already seen to participate in a group viewing thread? It sounds like a joke to even suggest it when I remember how exhausted I was. Better to learn to deal with the fact you will never be cool and up to date right from the start than to try to keep up with those bizarre people who seem to have infinite supplies of both time and money.

R
 
I don't think it is. It just depends how "involved" you want to be. I'm a student too, and I can afford to spend between £1-200 per month on anime, manga and figures. I have a part time job as well so that helps. My unlimited internet connection is about £15 per month total (but my flatmate and I paid the line rental all in one go when we signed up for the contract as it was cheaper that way), and I bought my Crunchyroll subscription in the last Black Friday sale, but they've made the membership cheaper now anyway so when I have to renew in June it'll be £40 for a whole year. And if you can't afford a subscription, there's always the free service anyway.

Sure, if you want to own every LE out there, it's going to get expensive. I know my budget doesn't stretch that far, so I save up and only buy them for shows I really like and I also stay away from AoA like the plague. There's no show I like enough to want to spend £100+ on it at the moment. (sorry Andrew!) NIS' premium editions are the perfect balance of affordable and nice to me.
I almost never buy anime as soon as the physical released comes out either. Most stuff I want to buy these days I've already seen via other means, so the desire to rewatch it isn't usually there immediately. If I haven't seen something, I don't want to drop a lot of money on it in case I don't like it. That way, I can wait until things get cheaper/go onto Deal of the Week/are cheap second hand or something. And as the Prof said, you can sell them on again as well if you want to.

Bug friends and family for money for your birthday/Christmas. I'm sure you can raise £40 for a subscription that way.

If you want to cosplay, you can do that affordably too. Learn to sew and look in charity shops for things you can adapt. You don't have to do ridiculously extravagant characters if you're on a budget.

There's other ways you can subsidise it too. For example, I'm a member of a load of online survey sites so I use the Amazon vouchers I get from doing them to buy stuff.

If you're poor enough you can't afford an Internet connection at home, then try your local library. I know the ones here in Edinburgh allow video streaming as long as it's not live TV.
 
st_owly said:
If you want to cosplay, you can do that affordably too. Learn to sew and look in charity shops for things you can adapt. You don't have to do ridiculously extravagant characters if you're on a budget.

As someone pointed out on Twitter, all you need to cosplay Hestia from Danmachi is a white plastic bag and a piece of blue string. Cheap as chips.
 
Those tips are really good, I wonder if there's any merit in a 'getting started' primer for people who are getting their first taste of anime and looking at the LE BD pricing in horror without understanding that there are other options available between the extremes? A lot of people don't seem to realise that the new fast-track LE model doesn't take away the availability of important budget lines like S.A.V.E. for people who don't mind waiting a little longer, too; that comes up time and time again in cost discussions.

Before I was earning enough to be able to take full control of my life the way I can now, I used to go to events where possible and bulk up my collection from the weird stuff that people thought was junk. Several of the distributors would sell off surplus volumes for just £1 (or less - adjusted for inflation :D) and I didn't really care that I might miss a few episodes here and there; that's how anime was often consumed on television, anyway. It was a fun way to try out uncool, unmarketable series nobody liked without breaking the bank. Going to events is completely unrealistic if you happen to live miles from anywhere, of course, but I'm sure people don't mind helping their fellow fans out and keeping an eye out for good deals if they know people are looking for something.

R
 
A lot of the out of print individual volumes are still available for very cheaply second hand too. Obviously stuff like Evangelion commands very high prices, but I know a lot of old Revelation/MVM/ADV stuff pops up on Amazon for only £0.01 (and then add on about a pound for postage)

I've definitely got around 10+ individual 4 ep volumes for under £20 in the past. A messy way to buy, sure, and not good for shelf space, but it gives you a taste of load of shows for a very low financial outlay.
 
An interesting range of responses (even if most of you disagree!)

ayase said:
I think really, the question neptune2venus is asking is whether it's fair that certain forms of entertainment should be off-limits to poorer people. I'd say no. It's hardly the fault of poor anime fans that TV channels don't show anime, yet give them 24/7 free access to Come Dancing With Me I'm a Celebrity With No Talent. Should they just make do with the free entertainment on offer because they're too poor to afford better quality entertainment they'd actually enjoy? Like I say, if I thought it was just a case of them getting off their arses and making money, I'd agree wholeheartedly that's what they should do. But the lack of opportunity for people in Britain today to better themselves is absolutely woeful, which is the fault of the successive governments for creating such an awful society.

Yes, this is what I'm really talking about. It's not simply the case of 'I can't afford anime therefore I should not watch any at all'. I'm saying that those with high income have a better experience and can get involved more with the community - there is disparity. Anime is cheaper, certainly, than 10-15 years ago and streaming accessibility is better than ever for reaching out to fans. But there are still barriers from enjoying anime fully. You need to have a PC/Laptop to begin with or at least a console with the various apps installed. Why should those on the lowest incomes be deprived of entertainment which may be the only source of recreational activity they have? Should it not be better than anime access is widened? Sure, S.A.V.E. anime is one way. Do they not remove all the extras, therefore it is an inferior product?

st_owly said:
I don't think it is. It just depends how "involved" you want to be. I'm a student too, and I can afford to spend between £1-200 per month on anime, manga and figures. I have a part time job as well so that helps.

I have a part-time job too and I have no where near that amount of disposable income. If I did, I would of course not see it as a problem. To put it bluntly, there are two different types of students; those who can afford to live comfortably and those who have to live on their means. It's not just a simple case of finding a better job though, anime overall should be more affordable and hence why I state 'accessible.'

Rui said:
Those tips are really good, I wonder if there's any merit in a 'getting started' primer for people who are getting their first taste of anime and looking at the LE BD pricing in horror without understanding that there are other options available between the extremes? A lot of people don't seem to realise that the new fast-track LE model doesn't take away the availability of important budget lines like S.A.V.E. for people who don't mind waiting a little longer, too; that comes up time and time again in cost discussions.

I think a guide for those just starting to get into anime would be highly beneficial and this is a good idea.

Lutga said:
A lot of the out of print individual volumes are still available for very cheaply second hand too. Obviously stuff like Evangelion commands very high prices, but I know a lot of old Revelation/MVM/ADV stuff pops up on Amazon for only £0.01 (and then add on about a pound for postage).

Anime commands a high price due to the print runs and demand. This is what I'm trying to point out; Choice is limited when you manage to save up enough for the anime you want, only to find you now have to pay even more. Games and other films usually depreciate overtime, however anime is a premium and usually prices deflate much more slowly. You just need to look at the most popular series and you don't save that much buying second hand.
 
I'd be happy to write a getting started guide once I'm done with uni. I think I'd really enjoy writing it.

You can also cosplay L for very little money too. :lol:

@neptune - No slight at you, but you can be "involved" for significantly less than that. A vast amount of my money goes on manga. Most people don't buy nearly as much manga as me. I usually spend less than £50 per month on anime, if I buy any at all, whereas in my experience most people buy far more anime than they do manga.

And as I said before, if you are so poor you can't afford a computer and internet connection, your local library is your best friend.

People with more money having a better experience isn't just an anime thing IMO, it's true across most hobbies I can think of.
 
S.A.V.E. releases are just as good as the full-priced versions most of the time. The only things they tend to lose are premium items and packaging (and arguably, if you don't mind the redesigns they often save an awful lot of space, too). ADV experimented with redoing the discs to remove the extras for their budget line but it was massively unpopular and probably cost them more than it saved in some cases. I don't think that will become common unless the extras are on a separate disc in the first place, as Manga UK's crummy 'special editions' tend to be. Budget lines like S.A.V.E. and MVM's DotWs are fantastic ways to steadily build up a varied collection on a budget.

One of the hard things about 'keeping up' with the current trends is that actually, a lot of the popular series are inherently mediocre and it's not worth killing yourself to try to afford them in the first place. DanMachi is currently getting a lot of attention so it's got a lot of 'keeping up' value in the community. Is it worth rushing out to buy a premium subscription to watch it or buy a life-sized hug pillow of Hestia when you can buy the whole of Shiki (on Blu-ray, no less) for under £15 or watch classic Gintama episodes for free on Viewster at your local library? I don't think so. There's a furious pressure to keep up with the latest anime trends and at some point everyone has to slam on the brakes for themselves and decide what they actually want to be watching. Once you control the pace, you lose the sense of pressure that you need to be allocating your precious time and money on things you can't really afford. I sometimes catch myself wanting to watch or buy something I don't, objectively, care about, just because of that pressure to keep up. Back when I was living more frugally I'd rewatch things I already have and really get into them instead of treating anime like a disposable commodity I need to keep updating. I don't even know how many times I've watched Slayers and Evangelion; I can recite so much useless lore from series of that era that it's ridiculous.

Being able to keep up with whatever series I want is a privilege I theoretically have access to in return for sacrificing all of my useful hours of life to work (and if you've chosen to go back into education, I expect you shall be earning more than I do in due course or at the very least leading a more fulfilling life). In a way, it's my motivation to keep working and struggling, and when I think back to the time before I could afford things I wanted at all I'm still grateful for it because those limited items I knew I'd never be able to own gave the world a wondrous feel to it that people who come from a wealthier background will never know. Objectively speaking, does it really matter that I'll never own a copy of the Sailor Moon Complete Music Box I once let slip through my fingers? If you really love Shiki, does it really matter that your version comes in a slim S.A.V.E. case rather than a chipboard artbox? So long as there's some way to experience the actual shows (and this is a problem which companies and fellow fans should never ignore) then I don't think it's a terrible thing to have different tiers of quality for those who want to invest more in the hobby. We all pay into the industry in our own ways, whether through MVM's deals or Viewster's ad revenue or Aniplex's pricey deluxe editions, so if the industry has a way to increase its income by milking the wealthy harder then I think everyone wins in the long run.

R
 
If anything, I'd say having more disposable income has reduced my level of engagement with anime to some degree - yes, I'm able to watch more, but I think sometimes my engagement with these shows isn't as strong as it would be if say, that was the only anime I could afford that month.

When I was first getting into anime, I watched Code Geass and thought it was the greatest thing in the world ever (and I still do) - but I think that was helped because I had no interruptions/no knowledge that I'd be straight onto the next thing on my backlog after finishing it.
 
neptune2venus said:
Yes, this is what I'm really talking about. It's not simply the case of 'I can't afford anime therefore I should not watch any at all'. I'm saying that those with high income have a better experience and can get involved more with the community - there is disparity. Anime is cheaper, certainly, than 10-15 years ago and streaming accessibility is better than ever for reaching out to fans. But there are still barriers from enjoying anime fully. You need to have a PC/Laptop to begin with or at least a console with the various apps installed. Why should those on the lowest incomes be deprived of entertainment which may be the only source of recreational activity they have? Should it not be better than anime access is widened? Sure, S.A.V.E. anime is one way. Do they not remove all the extras, therefore it is an inferior product?

There are barriers for pretty much everything life. As a gaming fan, if you want to enjoy gaming "fully" then you need three consoles, a handheld or two and a PC. That's in the £2000-£3000 priuce range just to get going, and that's before paying for games, internet, PSN/Live subscriptions etc. The thing is, most of us do it in moderation. You buy one console, a couple of games every now and then, pay your monthly subscription etc. As an anime fan, the bare minimum you need to get going is a TV in your house and a DVD player. Access to ebay will then allow you to pick up DVDs for cheap and the MVM deal of teh week will allow you access to their back catalogue for £9.99 at a time. Truly bargainous. CHeck out CEX too, some of their prices are pretty damn great.

Code Geass Season 1 for £6

Death Note complete £11

Deadman Wonderland £6

You don't need to buy every new show as and when it comes out, and you don't need to buy the Limited Edition versions of shows. Yes, there are instances where shows go out of print and they begin fetching a premium, but only in a handful of cases in my experience.

I don't understand what "enjoying anime fully" actually means. I get by on an average of say £50 a month worth of anime if that (some months are zero). I don't stream, be it legally or illegally and only consume anime through Blu-ray for the most part. Do I feel like i'm enjoying it properly? Yes, I'm more than happy with my anime lot.

The second part of your statement I have bolded is another sign of the whole entitlement attitude that exists primarily in the lower income households (which I was raised in, and still classify myself in due to the fact i'm not on a huge wage) I work my **** off to get by, and i know countless individuals who don't and yet seem to have a higher quality life than me on the back of hand outs. They feel it is their RIGHT to have a good TV, their RIGHT to have Sky, their RIGHT to have a car, their RIGHT to go on holidays and now from what I read, you believe it should be a RIGHT to watch and consume anime? It's not, and imo, none of that is. It's all well and good saying "why should we deprive them of anime" but then if they're not paying or it's at a ridiculously low cost, then where is the money coming to subsidise all this? Who pays for the licenses, who pays for the subbing, dubbing and production of the media? where does the money for all of this come from if people are barely paying for it, if at all?

In a perfect world everything would be free. It's not. You live, you work/study and you moderate how you spend your money and time in a fashion that suits your income and your time allowance. DO I wish I had more money? Yes. Do I wish I had more time? Yes. Do I wish I had more Anime, not really, but I guess I wouldnt complain.
 
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