Currency vs Brexit: GBP Losses

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http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57ea791ee4b00e5804ef5ae0

A Labour MP has effectively blamed immigrants for UK citizens racially assaulting them. There's been a lot of news I haven't posted here but feel this shows the mess we're in. Labour, the opposition party, is taking the line of Tories and UKIP and even openly saying "Well we want to be elected again."

We are living in a country where if enough people vote for it, racism is courted.

I don't agree with that. The majority want controlled immigration not no immigration, there is a big difference. Just look at the mess Germany is in through having an open door policy. It's the politicians that have got it wrong previously that have made this situation.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure how she was blaming immigrants for racial assaults, she keeps referencing "deep seated issues", which seemed to me to be a bit of a polite euphemism for "they're (a bit) racist".

But, this statement:
“If we just say that people are wrong and we want to continue being a member of the European Union and its good for us as a country and those are the facts, we are never going to win an election again and we don’t deserve to.”
is what the entirety of the Labour party should be thinking right now. If we choose to ignore the views of half the country because they conflict with our own, do we deserve to represent them?
 
If we choose to ignore the views of half the country because they conflict with our own, do we deserve to represent them?

Not ignoring the views of one half of the country means ignoring the views of the other half.

We should have a civil war, sort out the issue once and for all by reducing the population and making more room. Works for Syria...
 
A Labour MP has effectively blamed immigrants for UK citizens racially assaulting them.
To characterise what Rachel Reeves said in that way is unhelpful. To argue for a sensible immigration policy - and I accept that what constitutes "sensible" will vary from person to person - is not racism. Theresa May has said that the UK doesn't need 300,000+ net migration each year. Public services can't sustain that kind of population increase indefinitely, and it's typically poorer people who bear the heaviest burden. Labour are supposed to represent those people. There's nothing wrong with her comments.
 
If we choose to ignore the views of half the country because they conflict with our own, do we deserve to represent them?
Representatives are supposed to act in the best interests of their client (not sure that's quite the right word). That doesn't always mean doing what they want or what they say. Sometimes doing what's best for someone is also going to upset them (I'd imagine you could get confirmation of that from just about any parent).

It's true that doing unpopular things isn't going to get you elected but just trying to stay popular isn't necessarily doing your job. I suppose it's basically a flaw in the system, you get more credit for popularity and perception than for any work you're actually doing.

I think politicians should probably focus on telling us what they think is best, explaining why and building up enough trust that we're comfortable letting them do things we're not sure about because we believe that it's actually for a good reason.

To characterise what Rachel Reeves said in that way is unhelpful. To argue for a sensible immigration policy - and I accept that what constitutes "sensible" will vary from person to person - is not racism. Theresa May has said that the UK doesn't need 300,000+ net migration each year. Public services can't sustain that kind of population increase indefinitely, and it's typically poorer people who bear the heaviest burden. Labour are supposed to represent those people. There's nothing wrong with her comments.
Sort of related, it sounded like she was suggesting that one of the main reasons to change immigration policy was to avoid rioting/violence. It feels like there's something wrong with that way of thinking, the implication is that people would somehow be expected to riot simply because they're not happy with the way things are being handled (maybe even implying they'd be right to do so). Rioting and violence are generally just done by people looking for an excuse and it's a completely independent problem with no justification. The only times that riots or violence might become political is if they're directed against political bodies (at which point, they probably are closer to civil war), even then they should probably be seen as a last resort against a system that has comprehensively failed rather than a way to express displeasure on a specific issue. There's a pretty huge difference between protests and riots.

Even suggesting the possibility of rioting as a reaction to immigration policy seems somewhat irresponsible.

I do think it's ironic that people would attack immigrants and claim to do so out of an objection to immigration policy when the immigrants will have even less say in that policy than any citizen.
 
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Sort of related, it sounded like she was suggesting that one of the main reasons to change immigration policy was to avoid rioting/violence.
I can understand how it might come across that way, but I believe her sentiments come from a good place. She sees divisions in her constituency and is worried about where that may lead. To immediately assert that she's pandering to racists just doesn't make any sense to me.

The broader point is that her party has lost millions of supporters because they don't feel as though their concerns have been addressed, and now we face years and years of unopposed Conservative rule. What dismays me most about this post-Brexit landscape is how so many on the left are still using combative, dismissive language and throwing about thoughtless accusations of racism. This is a big part of why the UK voted to leave the EU and why people abandon mainstream politics for fringe parties like UKIP - or worse.
 
I can understand how it might come across that way, but I believe her sentiments come from a good place. She sees divisions in her constituency and is worried about where that may lead. To immediately assert that she's pandering to racists just doesn't make any sense to me.

The broader point is that her party has lost millions of supporters because they don't feel as though their concerns have been addressed, and now we face years and years of unopposed Conservative rule. What dismays me most about this post-Brexit landscape is how so many on the left are still using combative, dismissive language and throwing about thoughtless accusations of racism. This is a big part of why the UK voted to leave the EU and why people abandon mainstream politics for fringe parties like UKIP - or worse.
I think the larger issue is that many of these politicians still seem to be trying to act based on what they think people want, in a way that seems like they're actually dictating what people want rather than really listening. One thing the referendum showed is that far too many politicians seem to have no idea how to communicate with the public (or even understand them).

I don't know if the referendum was really about the choice to leave/remain (especially with the horrendous campaigns on both sides) so much as people simply wanting to be listened to. It's a shame that nothing seems to have really changed on that front.
 
Labour have spent the last weeks and months folding to the votes already represented by Tories and UKIP. Corbyn is pro-Brexit and slowly even the Labour MPs opposed to Brexit have been jumping ship. Ed Milliband even claimed Labour must be a voice for the unrepresented Leave camp...why is the official opposition taking that stance?

In related news, Brexit has revived a failing Japan EU trade deal Brexit revives stalled Japan-EU trade deal
 
To be blunt, I'm about this short of just up and blasting off to the NL and never looking back.

Like if Indyref 2 happens and we're still No on that then I'm more gone than Sachi.
 
Scotland has every right to be pissed off. I don't want to see UK divided but every promise they've been made since their own referendum has been broken.

Plus my family descends from Robert the Bruce, so I have a partial duty to side with them helped by their being the only sane voice.
 
Scotland has every right to be pissed off. I don't want to see UK divided but every promise they've been made since their own referendum has been broken.

Plus my family descends from Robert the Bruce, so I have a partial duty to side with them helped by their being the only sane voice.
Between you, me and the man upstairs, I expected us to get a bum deal out of that whole devolution of powers thing. But this nonsense takes every last cake in creation.

Oh and May, the Despot that she is, has basically declared that anything said by Scotland (, Wales and N. Ireland) during the process will be dutifully ignored. She wants Indiref 2 so she can put her boot right down in the case of a no vote (Not that I trust Tory to honour a yes vote).
 
The Tory Conference has produced a disgusting amount of bile regarding who isn't welcome here and it apparently extends to those of us who voted Remain.

Where on the ballot was the box for "Become the Nazi party"?
 
The Tory Conference has produced a disgusting amount of bile regarding who isn't welcome here and it apparently extends to those of us who voted Remain.

Where on the ballot was the box for "Become the Nazi party"?

Id be interested to see where the Tories have actually said "People who voted remain aren't welcome here"
 
Id be interested to see where the Tories have actually said "People who voted remain aren't welcome here"
Lines like "If you are a citizen of the world, then you are a citizen of nowhere" are rather clearly aimed at Remain voters and complaints of losing our EU citizenship and rights.

The whole conference has been a nasty grab bag of quotes and speeches denouncing Remain voters. I'd love to know if Leave voters felt they were voting for half the stuff the Tories have said they were. Name and shame companies that hire non British workers, announce the EU citizens living here are a major gambling chip, etc.
 
Jesus H Christ, she actauly thought it a good idea to stand up to a podium and say "If you believe are a citizen of the world, then you are a citizen of nowhere"?
 
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