Currency vs Brexit: GBP Losses

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He was implying that uk government are a bunch of fascists because of the questions on the you gov survey so I showed him an example of how a reel fascist government/state works e.g Sweden
 
Watanabe Ken said:
He was implying that uk government are a bunch of fascists because of the questions on the you gov survey so I showed him an example of how a reel fascist government/state works e.g Sweden
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They didn't actually say that, they said it could potentially make the public more accepting of elements of fascism, which is an entirely different argument.

Also, I would genuinely be amazed if you could find a state broadcaster, anywhere in the world, that wasn't deliberately lying to the public in some element of it's organisation.

ayase said:
Let's not just gloss over the fact there are plenty of far-right organisations whose language towards people of other races and nationalities is particularly hateful and discriminatory. Stopping (just) short of condoning violence against them doesn't make their opinions any less horrifying. If they actually gained the power to enforce laws that discriminated against people on grounds of race and was able to enact measures they want like forced deportations and what have you, that would be quite concerning, would it not?
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Just because I dislike the BNP and Britain First, doesn't mean I'm particularly enthralled with UAF.

I guess I like UAF's mission, but hate their methods, whereas I hate both missions and methods of BNP and Britain First, so I'd probably focus my hate there. Does that make it an endorsement of UAF? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
 
Watanabe Ken said:
He was implying that uk government are a bunch of fascists because of the questions on the you gov survey so I showed him an example of how a reel fascist government/state works e.g Sweden
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Except Sweden isn't a fascist state, is it? Our government are just as guilty of using force for their own ends and lying about and covering things up they believe would be detrimental to them. How's that absolute farce of an institutional child abuse investigation going?

Buzz201 said:
Just because I dislike the BNP and Britain First, doesn't mean I'm particularly enthralled with UAF.

I guess I like UAF's mission, but hate their methods, whereas I hate both missions and methods of BNP and Britain First, so I'd probably focus my hate there. Does that make it an endorsement of UAF? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
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To be clear, I'm not particularly endorsing any current groups who are prepared to use violence. I don't think we've gotten anywhere near the point it's justified yet. But if it looked like the BNP/Britain First stood a real chance of gaining power in this country? I can't honestly say I don't think violence should ever be used.
 
ayase said:
To be clear, I'm not particularly endorsing any current groups who are prepared to use violence. I don't think we've gotten anywhere near the point it's justified yet. But if it looked like the BNP/Britain First stood a real chance of gaining power in this country? I can't honestly say I don't think violence should ever be used.
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Absolutely, I didn't think you were, and I suddenly didn't mean to imply you were, I was just using examples to make it clear that I wasn't just making stuff up.

This what really bugs me about UAF. Somehow every rally they protests ends violently, and based on what you hear, it's not necessarily the people they deem to be 'fascist' that start it. I rather get the impression UAF is a fascistic organisation in its own right.

Watanabe Ken said:
short answer no long answer kinda is yeah
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Declaring a whole country fascistic based on one YouTube video seems like kinda a stretch.
 
I didn't say sweden was fascist i said there government and media are using fascist tactics to silence any opposition to the political agenda
 
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Watanabe Ken said:
I didn't say sweden was fascist is said there government and media are using fascist tactics to silence any opposition to the political agenda
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I'm not sure those tactics are exclusively fascist. Frankly, show me a government that doesn't use the media to spin things their way or use media friendly to their agenda to discredit unfriendly media.
 
For example
ayase said:
I'm not sure those tactics are exclusively fascist. Frankly, show me a government that doesn't use the media to spin things their way or use media friendly to their agenda to discredit unfriendly media.
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There not exclusively fascist tactics but there well used bye said fascist.
 
And true many governments use the media to keep a monopoly on the people extreme examples North Korea and China that still doesn't make what Sweden's doing any less wrong
 
Watanabe Ken said:
And true many governments use the media to keep a monopoly on the people extreme examples North Korea and China that still doesn't make what Sweden's doing any less wrong
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And you'd agree that our government do this in a less extreme way as well, or not?
 
Buzz201 said:
Just because I dislike the BNP and Britain First, doesn't mean I'm particularly enthralled with UAF.

I guess I like UAF's mission, but hate their methods, whereas I hate both missions and methods of BNP and Britain First, so I'd probably focus my hate there. Does that make it an endorsement of UAF? Maybe it does, but it shouldn't.
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UAF should stand for Unite Against Freespeech since all they do is attack people who don't share there opinions.
 
ayase said:
And you'd agree that our government do this in a less extreme way as well, or not?
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Yeah of course they do it all the time but the uk isn't the Rape capital of the west Sweden is people don't need to blur there face when they criticize the uk government on crime and immigration that's just Sweden big difference between the two
 
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I don't really know what to say to that. We're straying quite far from the original topic now, but I'm not sure attacking biased left-wing news by quoting headlines from biased right-wing news is particularly constructive to your argument. There are multiple reasons Sweden's level of recorded rapes is high, chief among them their different legal definition and way of recording statistics.

Is there a conversation we as a society should be having about the possibility some men from countries where women aren't treated well or equally... might not treat women well or equally? Absolutely. Might Sweden's government and press be attempting to stop people from even having this discussion out of fear? Very probably. But I think say the same could easily be said about our mainstream media and government and how they treat anybody attempting to delve into the dodginess surrounding child abuse investigations linked to MPs and MI5 agents. And as far as I know no-one accused of rape in Sweden has yet conveniently died and been unable to provide any information as a result. Personally I find that rather more concerning.
 
Big difference between not treating a woman well and gang raping her and then allowing the rapists to get away with it just because they come from a different culture and don't know any better is utterly monstrous and racist at least in this country rapists are put in prison that's if the police and local authorities don't try to cover it up for fear of being seen as racist.
 
And you're in posession of all the details of an instance like this and you didn't read it from a biased, sensationalist news source the likes of which you've been condemning, right? This goes both ways. You can't claim it's a terrible affront to freedom when left wing media spin things one way while relying on right ring media that spins it the other way to tell you the absolute truth.
 
It's not the right who are trying to sensor the liberal media because trump lost the election it's no the right who have a monopoly on the mainstream media Google aren't censoring the bbc, wall street journal, cnn, or the Huffington post the reason right wing media even exist is because the mainstream media isn't providing true picture of the world there just showing what fits there narrative. But of course the right wing media are biased I didn't say they weren't. I used to be a massive SJW In college and University I used to get all my opinions from the mainstream media it wasn't until I actually started to actually questioning some of the things people around me where saying that I discovered how dishonest mainstream media really is. Just look at America all these riots and destruction people getting assaulted just because Donald Trump won the election, the mass hysteria the main stream media have created about Trump just short of endorsing terrorism, they even indirectly convinced an autistic British man to try and assassinate trump.
 
Watanabe Ken said:
It's not the right who are trying to sensor the liberal media because trump lost the election it's no the right who have a monopoly on the mainstream media Google aren't censoring the bbc, wall street journal, cnn, or the Huffington post the reason right wing media even exist is because the mainstream media isn't providing true picture of the world there just showing what fits there narrative. But of course the right wing media are biased I didn't say they weren't. I used to be a massive SJW In college and University I used to get all my opinions from the mainstream media it wasn't until I actually started to actually questioning some of the things people around me where saying that I discovered how dishonest mainstream media really is. Just look at America all these riots and destruction people getting assaulted just because Donald Trump won the election, the mass hysteria the main stream media have created about Trump just short of endorsing terrorism, they even indirectly convinced an autistic British man to try and assassinate trump.
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Fox News is America's No. 1 news network, The Washington Post and the Telegraph are successful newspapers, the Daily Mail is amongst the most visited news websites in the world, Sky News is still many people's go to news source... This whole idea that right wing news sources are persecuted, but fighting the good fight against a tide of left-wing news that hates the truth is codswallop. It's this "victim" narrative they've (and it's generally only Fox and the Daily Mail, so I'm not criticising all of them here) concocted to try and make you sympathise with them.

And the reason Google are censoring right wing news organisations is because many of them deliberately lie and overstretch facts to fit an invented narrative. It would be wrong to say the left didn't do this, but in my experience, it's never quite on the same scale.

For what it's worth, Buzzfeed News aggressively called out some of the **** The Canary was peddling earlier in the week. So left wing news seems to be better at policing itself too.
 
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What's this country I'm living in where rapists are always punished and we always treat vulnerable people right? This smugness when looking down on other cultures is really damaging efforts to make our own suck less. We have massive headlines about systemic rape problems in the UK (affecting men too, and even British-born white people who are unaffected by the racism claims) and yet as soon as stats are published elsewhere we're rushing to Muslim majority countries, Sweden, basically anywhere else and sneering at them for being unable to control their randy men around women.

All of the media is dishonest and run by people with their own biases, conscious or unconscious. Assuming that your negative perception of the 'mainstream' media is wholly unbiased makes no sense whichever way around your political goals lie.

R
 
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